Zone1 A Brief Look at Blacks and Jews in America(take 2)

[flacaltenn]

Not only did they have more OPPORTUNITIES than blacks because they are WHITE and NOT BLACK, but they also have been subjected to antisemitism for about 1/4 of the time that blacks have had to deal with anti-black discrimination - barely 100 years versus 400 plus years.

Oh really?? I think there's a LOT of evidence that Jews WITHOUT their own country have been persecuted for a COUPLE DOZEN CENTURIES. We were blamed for every plague in Dark Ages. Got expelled from Egypt in 400BC. got accused of killing Jesus, Even had Farrahkhan accuse us of "inventing the myth of MODERN DAY slavery". In the 14th century, A Vatican priest found a ton of moldy communion wafers and scapegoated the Jews for "torturing them and poking them to bleed".

So of this history is actually COMICAL now. And a lot of it aint. Especially the "world dominion" conspiracy theorists that find JEWS everywhere even if they are not. You aint been in The Jews Own Social Media threads (including USMB) -- have ya?

 

[flacaltenn]

The Jewish people were allies who were very much appreciated however when you and FlaCalTenn claim they were at the "forefront" of the Civil Rights movement you are making it sound as if they were the ones who started the movement and made up the majority of the membership when that simply is not true. Forefront is defined as "the leading or most important position or place"

Yep. In 1911, there were the rare WHITE people who dedicated THEIR LIVES to the Civil Rights movement. In particular -- going back to the CREATION DAYS of the NAACP were brothers Arthur/Joel Spingarn. Arthur was key to opening the NYCity office for NAACP, Chief Legal counsel, served as PRESIDENT elected by the membership from 1930s to the 1960s.

Arthur Spingarn of N.A.A.C.P. Is Dead (Published 1971)

Spingarn, Arthur B

www.nytimes.com

Even an award in his name sponsored by the Spingarn Family.

The Spingarn Medal (1915- ) •

The Spingarn Medal is the highest honor of the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People (NAACP). Since 1915, it has been awarded annually for the highest achievement of a living African American in the preceding year or years. The twofold purpose of the … Read MoreThe Spingarn...

www.blackpast.org

 

[flacaltenn]

So as I have said from the beginning, the relationship between blacks and Jews is complicated.

Entirely anecdotal. And even family/marital relationships are complicated. That doesn't mean there IS NOT bonding and cooperation and mutual respect.

Going back to 1847 to find a Jewish slave purchaser doesn't really BRING any respect to "the current relationship" and historical perspective. We DONT cheer about stuff like ONE story. Nobody does.
Unless -- DID YOU CHEER when you found it?

 

[flacaltenn]

Did you actually read it? Because a lot of you claim isn’t in the article IS IN THE ARTICLE. No it isn’t a scholarly article, but lays out the essential facts including the massive immigration surge.

Oh C'mon.. It was FAR from scholarly. No dates, not even time periods or references to the Great Depression DURING WHICH most of this occurred. NO NUMBERS OR MAGNITUDE OR the fact that MOST AMERICAN JEWS GOT HERE in just a 30 or 40 yr period. Over 5 MILLION.

Which I SUPPOSE the period that this "scholarly" author was referring to as "later", but WE ( you and I) have no real idea what that meant.

I ADDED the "scholarly stuff" to even BEGIN to understand the generalizations and "hearsay" (NOT QUOTES ANYWHERE) --- and put them in context. For all we know, the hearsay about "how the uptowners felt" COULD HAVE BEEN in 1929 - 32 which was the PEAK MISERY of the Great Depression and then -----------------------------------------------

I'd have to agree with the "uptowners" that it wasn't WISE to be packing MILLIONS more into NYC in a decade where things were going to hell economically.

 

[flacaltenn]

They would also teach me how to say things in both Hewbrew and Yiddish

That could be dangerous. If I use any of those words that U might recognize. Thanks for warning me.



On a more serious note --

We physically put our lives on the line ---

for the civil rights movement. So did A LOT of northern Jews. In the Civil War and specifically DURING the movement. One of the most notable KKK lynchings involved a threesome in a car in Mississippi that Klan intercepted while the occupants where cruising thru the middle of the state about early 60s to register voters. One black occupant and two white Jewish guys were hung from trees.

Not long AFTER THAT -- my uncle who dedicated his life to accepting Principal (his wife did also) jobs at the WORST black inner city schools called my dad and informed him that HE was gonna go to South Carolina for his summer break to DO THE SAME JOB as those 2 northern Jews lynched in Miss. I remember the arguments and my Dad FUMING about "He might not make it out alive".

 

[Lisa558]

Sure seems as though the black activists and their white leftist enablers working this thread are determined to find isolated incidents or articles to make Jews look bad - all because they are resentful that a persecuted minority could push forward in the face of horrible antisemitism, find solutions when they were excluded from neighborhoods, organizations, and jobs, exhibit traits that are needed for success - hard work, discipline, motivation, valuing the right things, etc., - and move from poor, uneducated immigrants who couldn’t even speak the language to their children owning middle class houses in the suburbs and pursing successful careers.

The underlying message to Jews who, as a group, became successful in a generation, or at most two, is the same slap that Obama gave hardworking, successful business owners - “you didn’t build that!” And that is because it is against the liberals’ “religion” to credit successful people for the right choices and attributes because the converse would be that there is SOME responsibility on the failures.

 

[flacaltenn]

As @flacaltenn pointed out, they dealt with restricted neighborhoods where developers wouldn’t sell, and all sorts of clubs where Jews weren’t allowed. They ran into roadblocks because employers wouldn’t hire Jews. But did they whine about it and blame others all the time? NO. They moved to where neighborhoods did allow Jews, they formed their own clubs, and they relocated to where people would hire Jews.

Yeah. Actually they DID whine about it. But only to other Jews. No sense making other people listen to your sorrows that they cant understand. Wow. That's got a deep meaning to Race discussions as well - dont it? That's why you dont see a lot of Jews still whining about getting blame for all those Dark Ages plagues. Blame that carried FORWARD for centuries and CAUSED continuing pain.

They DID work-around. Because there is no CENTRALIZED economy. There isn't really actually a "centralized" education system either. But for education, you have too many powerful ORGS in that mix.

YOU CAN IGNORE a whole lot of disrespect and bias if you focus on PRESENT SURVIVAL and future goals and USE the "community" shielding on the economic side. KEY to a one or two generation success plan is STRESSING academics. Today you can crowd source great ideas. Dont even need to state a religion, culture or race. Crowd sourcing is just as effective as silly govt "tax breaks" or other bennies and MAYBE BETTER -- because there is NO BOX CHECKING on the forms. No one knows. No one cares. Which IS the way it SHOULD be.

Govt programs need a COMPLIANCE STAFF to even fill out the forms. And to look for the loopholes and "hooks" in the deals.

 

[Lisa558]

Yep. In 1911, there were the rare WHITE people who dedicated THEIR LIVES to the Civil Rights movement. In particular -- going back to the CREATION DAYS of the NAACP were brothers Arthur/Joel Spingarn. Arthur was key to opening the NYCity office for NAACP, Chief Legal counsel, served as PRESIDENT elected by the membership from 1930s to the 1960s.

Arthur Spingarn of N.A.A.C.P. Is Dead (Published 1971)

Spingarn, Arthur B

www.nytimes.com

Even an award in his name sponsored by the Spingarn Family.

The Spingarn Medal (1915- ) •

The Spingarn Medal is the highest honor of the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People (NAACP). Since 1915, it has been awarded annually for the highest achievement of a living African American in the preceding year or years. The twofold purpose of the … Read MoreThe Spingarn...

www.blackpast.org

I didn’t know that background. That a Jewish man was instrumental to opening up a large NAACP chapter makes it even MORE reprehensible that an NAACP chapter president distributed a disgusting antisemitic cartoon to his black members, engendering more hostility toward Jews.

Also horrible is that the leadership of the NAACP rallied around the antisemite, pushing back against the Jews who wanted him gone, and the Jew-hating NAACP president suffered no repercussions. I suppose he just went on to rail against how wrong it is to be a racist.

 

[flacaltenn]

How long have you been worried about being made into a scapegoat? Are you saying that you have fears of the holocaust occurring again? In America?

Probably NOT in America. But we DO WORRY about violence in certain Muslim immigrant dominant areas of key Euro countries. The attacks there are vicious and physical. And it all stems from "reaching out" to offer homeland refuge to people that are escaping Mid East violence.

Except the miscalculation was -- these people crossed the Med on rafts and dangerous routes to SURVIVE. They did not come BECAUSE they wanted to BE Dutch/German/French/Romanian. So they feel no compulsion to even UNDERSTAND western TOLERANCE and acceptance of diversity. THAT is a dangerous threat.

 

[Lisa558]

I am honestly surprised to see you acknowledge this because most of the time you insist that racism no longer exits in the U.S.

I don’t deny that some people are racists, just as some people are antidemites. But there’s no systemic racism.

All I‘ve said - repeatedly - is that prejudice is not the reason that blacks in the latter 20th century and early decades of the 21st century have twice the poverty rate of whites.

 

[MisterBeale]

I’ve seen no Jews making racist comments. You have a weird definition of what constitutes racist.

You, on the other hand, have started a thread trying to take away from Jews the fact that they marched for Civil Rights in support of blacks - and instead found some antisemitic black who claimed they did it out of self-interest. Starting another thread to make Jews sound selfish and self-serving is what is actually racist.

And all normal people see it.

We have one on this thread making racist comments.

shiksas

goy

Both of those words are, and can be used as pejoratives. They should not be allowed use by folks of Jewish ancestry certainly, maybe by those who identify as a gentiles perhaps? I don't know, they are disgusting words. Unless all pejoratives are allowed? None of them should be.



The defense by those who use them, is that cultural elites, have used them so often, and in so many works, to cater to their audiences, that they no longer are necessarily derogatory, but we know, what is meant by them, when they are used.

If the establishment uses the N-word continually in movies and music, and then claims, well, it is not always meant in an offensive way, as a modern excuse to employ such language, this does not excuse their use. It is still of a demeaning and of derogatory etymology. Only the ignorant, or gas-lit, will tell you otherwise.

 

[MisterBeale]

So much for, "Zone 1."

 

[fncceo]

Both of those words are, and can be used as pejoratives.

Any word can be used as a pejorative. Have you have heard a shop girl say, "dear"?

 

[IM2]

We got at least 189 years of steadfast refusal to grant economic freedom. Some of that was while white Jews were getting economic development assistance. Where you got 70 years from is laughable.

And then there is this:

"An advertisement in North Carolina’s Wilmington Journal in 1847 reveals a stain on local Jewish history. Ansley Davis, who came from Petersburg, Virginia, published the ad under the heading “Negroes Wanted.” The text stated: “I wish to purchase a large number of Negroes of both sexes, from the age of 14 to 30, for which I will pay the highest cash market price.” Davis, whose family owned one of the largest Jewish-run slave-trading companies in the entire South, would tour the region every summer seeking new slaves, which he later sold.

Davis was not the only Southern Jew who made a living in the slave trade prior to the Civil War. David Wise of New Orleans also put up slaves for sale at the time, working out of a depot on the city’s Baronne Street. “Has always on hand a large number of slaves, which will be sold for cash,” according to an ad that he placed in a paper. “A fine lot of young, likely, able-bodied negroes – girls and men – excellent field hands.” By the time the war broke out, New Orleans was the largest slave-trading city in the South."

The uncomfortable truths of Jewish life in the U.S. south

***

www.haaretz.com

So as I have said from the beginning, the relationship between blacks and Jews is complicated.

Flacaltenn, you disagree with documented history.

 

[MisterBeale]

It’s not Marxist.

It may not be "Marxist," in the classical sense, but it is the left that is definitely is way more attached to social engineering, postmodern thought, and the school of critical theory (sometimes referred to as "cultural Marxism," due to its links to Marxism,) in a top down attempt to re-engineer society.

This makes the left and right wing of our politics take different views of the law as well. Should individuals, families and grassroots organizations have control of their destiny, or the government/corporate/institutionally funded billionaires of the bureaucracy?

Sides on both extremes, tend to be a bit idealistic about the nature of humans and what they can achieve.

"Postmodernism is an intellectual stance or mode of discourse[1][2] defined by an attitude of skepticism toward what it characterizes as the grand narratives of modernism, opposition to notions of epistemic certainty or the stability of meaning, and emphasis on the role of ideology in maintaining systems of socio-political power.[3][4] Claims to objective fact are dismissed as naive realism,[5] with attention drawn to the conditional nature of knowledge claims within particular historical, political, and cultural discourses.[4] Thus, the postmodern outlook is characterized by self-referentiality, epistemological relativism, moral relativism, pluralism, irony, irreverence, and eclecticism;[4] it rejects the "universal validity" of binary oppositions, stable identity, hierarchy, and categorization.[6][7] . . . "

Postmodernism - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

"A critical theory is any approach to social philosophy that focuses on reflective assessment and critique of society and culture to reveal and challenge power structures. With roots in sociology and literary criticism, it argues that social problems stem more from social structures and cultural assumptions than from individuals. It argues that ideology is the principal obstacle to human liberation.[1] Critical theory finds applications in various fields of study, including psychology, sociology, history, communication theory, and feminist theory.

Specifically, Critical Theory (capitalized) is a school of thought practiced by the Frankfurt School theoreticians Herbert Marcuse, Theodor Adorno, Walter Benjamin, Erich Fromm, and Max Horkheimer. Horkheimer described a theory as critical insofar as it seeks "to liberate human beings from the circumstances that enslave them."[2] Although a product of modernism, and although many of the progenitors of Critical Theory were skeptical of postmodernism, Critical Theory is one of the major components of both modern and postmodern thought, and is widely applied in the humanities and social sciences today.[3][4][5] . . . "

Critical theory - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

CONSTITUTIONAL INTERPRETATION: AN OVERVIEW OF ORIGINALISM AND LIVING CONSTITUTIONALISM​

"Originalists today make, interpret and enforce the law by the original meaning of the Constitution as it was originally written.[1] The original meaning is how the terms of the Constitution were commonly understood at the time of ratification.[2] Most, if not all Originalists begin their analysis with the text of the Constitution.[3] Similarly, Textualists consider the Constitution in its entirety to be authoritative.[4] Proponents of Originalism argue, among other things, that Originalism should be the preferred method of interpretation because it binds judges and limits their ability to rule in favor of changing times.[5] Distinctly, Living Constitutionalists are guided by the Constitution but they proffer that it should not be taken word for word with any possibility of growth.[6] In other words, they suggest that the Constitution should be interpreted through the lens of current day society.[7] Proponents of Living Constitutionalism contend that allowing for growth is natural given that the Constitution is broad and limitations are not clearly established.[8] . . . "

https://lawreview.law.uic.edu/constitutional-interpretation-an-overview-of-originalism-and-living-constitutionalism/

 

[MisterBeale]

Any word can be used as a pejorative. Have you have heard a shop girl say, "dear"?

View attachment 670682

That is your excuse for being a bigot huh?

 

[fncceo]

That is your excuse for being a bigot huh?

Bigot? Moi?

 

[MisterBeale]

Bigot? Moi?

Perhaps you would prefer racist?

supremacist?

zealot?

prejudiced person?

xenophobe?

chauvinist?

jingoist?

 

[fncceo]

Perhaps you would prefer racist?

supremacist?

zealot?

prejudiced person?

xenophobe?

chauvinist?

jingoist?

I am a moderate fundamentalist.

I believe that anyone who isn't a moderate should be castrated.

 

[Coyote]

I am a moderate fundamentalist.

I believe that anyone who isn't a moderate should be castrated.

Well….that is pretty fundamental alright…