Zone1 A Brief Look at Blacks and Jews in America(take 2)

[Lisa558]

You're being inconsistent again and even more vague if that is even possible. You mean to tell me you have no idea how he did it?

I'm not asking you to keep rehashing the same claim over & over again. I'm asking you how SPECIFICALLY he did it? Such as in the case of someone wanting to become a doctor or lawyer today and they are penniless and uneducated, how do you get into a good law school or go to medical school without an education? How do you get someone to pay your tuition and expenses while in school without the stellar grades you insist black people didn't have due to affirmative action in spite of obvious accomplishments? I'm asking you what the plan was, your euphemisms regarding choices, motivation, discipline sound like something coming from a child because you are unable to explain how they work in action. You can have all the discipline in the world but if you have nothing to apply it to or the means to acquire the things you need, you won't be able to accomplish a whole lot.

And if any of the money came from government grants or state or federal funding, that money came from the taxpayers and you were just bitching about you not wanting "white people" paying reparations to blacks for all of the unconstitutional violations of our rights. Such as our taxes going into funds to pay for white students to attend schools that we were legally barred from.

So what I’d the college my dad went to go public funding? Public colleges get public funding.

But here, in your mad effort to show why a Jew got benefits from a state fundEd college and blacks were shut out - is where you go wrong. Blacks were in the same college, at the same time!

The way you want to say it is that blacks were locked out of the benefits that Jews got as your way to keep blaming racism. You want whites to think that blacks couldn’t go to college in the 1940s. Well news flash - they could and did.

The fact that blacks are still living in poverty, when there has been opportunities for blacks equal to whites (actually, given MORE opportunity in many ways) for two generations isn’t whites’ fault.

 

[Lisa558]

Not only did they have more OPPORTUNITIES than blacks because they are WHITE and NOT BLACK, but they also have been subjected to antisemitism for about 1/4 of the time that blacks have had to deal with anti-black discrimination - barely 100 years versus 400 plus years.

It's not just how horrible any type of race based discrimination and violence is, it's also how long it's been going on that determines the degree of damage and impact of the victims.

Oh please. Jews have been subjected to persecution and bigotry for 2,000 years.

The Jews of 1940s NYC were suffering more from antisemitism than the blacks of 1940s NYC were suffering from racism. They had their families KILLED for being Jewish, ans in the midst of living through that terror, still managed to look forward - and succeed.

The fact remains that these poor, impoverished Jews arrived on these shores, experienced horrific antisemitism by losing their families to Jew-hate, and with the same opportunities as blacks had to go on to college, ended up a generation later in middle class suburbs.

 

[Lisa558]

Because they were/are WHITE and NOT BLACK.

Why are you all pretending that not just our government but most of society worked in concert to prevent the rise in society of the black race and that many of the advances made by whites were made at the expense of blacks?

WHY is that so hard to accept?

Because that hasn’t been the case in two generations.

You‘ve had 40 years to take advantage of pro-black policies, given out at the expense of whites, to move up. And MOST blacks have. That’s why they are living in nice homes and eating out at expensive restaurants. They made the right choices and improved their lives.

That some blacks did not isn’t the fault of whitey.

 

[Lisa558]

Coyote there is no antisemitism being promoted here. You and FlaCalTenn are allowing Lisa's insecurities to color your perceptions. Pick ANY topic and she has to interject her being a [persecuted] Jewish person into the conversation when she's not complaining that black people are getting too much attention in comparison to our representation of the population (13%) - appearing in ads, on posters at the mall, in the media, singing the National Anthem, being admitted to colleges, displacing imminently more qualified job candidates, etc. etc. etc..

The point IM2 is making is that there are Jewish leaders who themselves have admitted that they recognized the advantages to themselves as a minority that came with joining up with the black leaders of the civil rights movement. It's not meant as a condemnation, it's was an effort to counter and show Lisa that she doesn't have to believe us, that there are Jewish people who have documented their reasons for having done so.

The Jewish people were allies who were very much appreciated however when you and FlaCalTenn claim they were at the "forefront" of the Civil Rights movement you are making it sound as if they were the ones who started the movement and made up the majority of the membership when that simply is not true. Forefront is defined as "the leading or most important position or place"

One of the things that I love about the Jewish people whom I have come to know over the last 8 years is not only the kindness they always have shown me, but the concern for my well being and interest in me and my life. I was asked by several members once if I felt unsafe around the police because of the things they were seeing and hearing in the news when there was a rash of highly publicized shooting of black motorists by the police. My response was that they don't mess with me too much probably because I'm female but that I definitely had concerns for my younger brother. That was years ago but they know now who I was talking about because he has taken over some of my responsibilities.

And they were always so appreciative that we spent our time watching over and protecting them while they are worshiping. On more than one occasion after they took the time to stop specifically just to say thank you, I let a couple of them know "well I know what it feels like to be targeted" as well as wishing that it wasn't necessary for them to have to have someone watch over them in their houses of worship while attending services.

They would also teach me how to say things in both Hewbrew and Yiddish

We physically put our lives on the line for them so it's beyond description to try to express what it's like to see Lisa spewing the nonsense and lies that she does about black people in general, and us or more specifically - me. It goes so far beyond the pale that it's almost incomprehensible except for the fact that there have always been white people like her saying the things she does.

It's because I know so many wonderful Jewish people that I dislike her and her holier-than-thou attitude so much. I've made no bones about that, irrespective of what she thinks she knows.

Civil Rights Movement​

The civil rights movement was a struggle for justice and equality for African Americans that took place mainly in the 1950s and 1960s. It was led by people like Martin Luther King Jr., Malcolm X, the Little Rock Nine and many others.​

Civil Rights Movement​

7 Civil Rights Leaders You Need to Know​

TV-PG​

8:20​

Throughout American history, many have had to fight to advance the ideals of liberty and equality. Learn about 7 lesser-known civil rights leaders who were crucial to their causes, in this episode of History Countdown.​

View attachment 6703897 Civil Rights Leaders You Need to Know​

Remembering Jews who Fought for Black Civil Rights​

In the 1960s, hundreds of Jews worked tirelessly to advance civil rights. Two of them were murdered.​

View attachment 670390​

“I am one freedom rider who will never, ever forget the assistance of Jews.”​

​

Hank Thomas, a major figure in the American civil rights struggle and one of the first Freedom Riders who traveled throughout the American South in the 1960s to raise awareness of the struggle for Black rights, always remembered the many Jews who helped him.​

​

In the 2011 documentary Freedom Riders, he recalled the key role American Jews played in calling for equal rights for Black Americans. “Let’s put it this way,” Thomas explained, “when Germany was defeated in World War II, headlines across the nation read ‘Allies defeat Germany.’ Well, we had allies, too. Half of the freedom riders were white, and of those whites, a very significant portion of them were Jews. Jews played a very significant part in our human rights struggle.”​

Remembering Jews who Fought for Black Civil Rights - aish.com Jewish Society, Israel​

​

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I didn’t read your long, drawn-out attack beyond where you complain that I consider myself a persecuted Jewish victim.

It’s just the opposite! I am showing how Jews, DESPITE the antisemitism, did not allow themselves to become victims - and were able to move from poverty to the middle class in spite of that. Jews are the very epitome of how to succeed while suffering from extreme bigotry.

All you have are excuses, focusing on the past. YOU are the one playing victim, all in the effort to redistribute whitrs’ money to blacks.

 

[Lisa558]

Why do you keep acting like none of us had any relatives murdered? Or that the murder of your people was WORSE than the murder of ours?

How in the hell do you justify that?

Did 6 million of your relatives - and within the memory of those living today - get rounded up because they were black and killed for that sole reason? Did your black grandparents have to listen on the radio, knowing their parents and siblings were being slaughtered, and the US president turning away a boat of Jews fleeing for their lives?

MY poor, uneducated grandparents did. And despite that, all four of their children - on both sides - pushed through, studied, stayed out of trouble, and went on to middle class lives.

You really need to move beyond the victimhood of the past and appreciate the opportunities this country has given blacks for generations.

 

[Coyote]

Now ponder the situation of the author here. Works for a foundation that built this ESQUISITE Synagogue in the late 1800s. Rivals many of the houses of worship UPTOWN for christians. All that is described is a "class war" caused by "generous immigration quotas". Pictures in the UPTOWN people's heads about getting standing room only in their TEMPLE lined with all those brand new immigrants.

Author NEVER quotes dates. Just refers to "earlier and later", but this GRAPH gives some perspective.

In ONE LIFETIME -- the number of Jews in America increased (1890 -- 1930) more than 10FOLD!!! That's the period MY family came thru Ellis Island and they were TOO BUSY SURVIVING to CARE about what the elitists uptown thought about them.

That synagogue was built WHEN? About the time of the influx. AND more than 80% of those newer JEWS came thru NYCity. They didn't have the infrastructure and the new-comers walked squarely into the GREAT DEPRESSION.

Author lacks a lot of common sense to NOT GIVE the context and timing. Probably too young to have gotten the feel for the history. And I'm CERTAIN the story changed DRASTICALLY, when the NYTimes was writing adoring puff pieces on Hitler coming to power and those EARLY German jews' RELATIVES were LOCKED into Germany with this madman. No whining then about quotas and unwashed masses THEN -- I ASSURE YOU...

Now ponder the situation of the author here. Works for a foundation that built this ESQUISITE Synagogue in the late 1800s. Rivals many of the houses of worship UPTOWN for christians. All that is described is a "class war" caused by "generous immigration quotas". Pictures in the UPTOWN people's heads about getting standing room only in their TEMPLE lined with all those brand new immigrants.

Author NEVER quotes dates. Just refers to "earlier and later", but this GRAPH gives some perspective.

In ONE LIFETIME -- the number of Jews in America increased (1890 -- 1930) more than 10FOLD!!! That's the period MY family came thru Ellis Island and they were TOO BUSY SURVIVING to CARE about what the elitists uptown thought about them.

That synagogue was built WHEN? About the time of the influx. AND more than 80% of those newer JEWS came thru NYCity. They didn't have the infrastructure and the new-comers walked squarely into the GREAT DEPRESSION.

Author lacks a lot of common sense to NOT GIVE the context and timing. Probably too young to have gotten the feel for the history. And I'm CERTAIN the story changed DRASTICALLY, when the NYTimes was writing adoring puff pieces on Hitler coming to power and those EARLY German jews' RELATIVES were LOCKED into Germany with this madman. No whining then about quotas and unwashed masses THEN -- I ASSURE YOU...

Did you actually read it? Because a lot of you claim isn’t in the article IS IN THE ARTICLE. No it isn’t a scholarly article, but lays out the essential facts including the massive immigration surge. You really miss the whole point in your zeal to criticize it. YES it was class related and CULTURAL, and even political (the differences in the groups). GUESS WHAT? It’s IN THE DAMN ARTICLE. And yes, when Hitler first began his campaign of murder, most Americans were deaf to it, we were in a xenophobic anti-immigration isolationist period. And antisemitism played a role and so did fear of Marxism that they might bring with them. The American Jewish community at the time were didn’t want to do anything that would bring attention on the Jews or cause their community to look bad. It’s not so black and white (pardon the pun), kind of like racism in America where want pretend there is no lasting impact from Jim Crowe (which is in living memory) and blacks just need to quit whining and be a “model minority” like Jews and Asians.

I’ll also say, that period of immigration and the history of Ellis Island was a passionate interest of mine, it was a time of incredible immigration, so many different national groups, coming through and often staying in New York.

 

[Lisa558]

Did you actually read it? Because a lot of you claim isn’t in the article IS IN THE ARTICLE. No it isn’t a scholarly article, but lays out the essential facts including the massive immigration surge. You really miss the whole point in your zeal to criticize it. YES it was class related and CULTURAL, and even political (the differences in the groups). GUESS WHAT? It’s IN THE DAMN ARTICLE. And yes, when Hitler first began his campaign of murder, most Americans were deaf to it, we were in a xenophobic anti-immigration isolationist period. And antisemitism played a role and so did fear of Marxism that they might bring with them. The American Jewish community at the time were didn’t want to do anything that would bring attention on the Jews or cause their community to look bad. It’s not so black and white (pardon the pun), kind of like racism in America where want pretend there is no lasting impact from Jim Crowe (which is in living memory) and blacks just need to quit whining and be a “model minority” like Jews and Asians.

I’ll also say, that period of immigration and the history of Ellis Island was a passionate interest of mine, it was a time of incredible immigration, so many different national groups, coming through and often staying in New York.

You sure made an effort to dig up an obscure article as a way to criticize Jews.

Nobody ever said Jews were perfect, but there sure is a lot to admire - and emulate. They faced plenty of antisemitism when they arrived here, impoverished and uneducated, and yet rose above it without constantly blaming other people. The most horrific of course is that they had to live through the murder of their immediate families, but they were also subjected to plenty of Jew-hate.

As flacaltenn pointed out, they dealt with restricted neighborhoods where developers wouldn’t sell, and all sorts of clubs where Jews weren’t allowed. They ran into roadblocks because employers wouldn’t hire Jews. But did they whine about it and blame others all the time? NO. They moved to where neighborhoods did allow Jews, they formed their own clubs, and they relocated to where people would hire Jews.

So with all that determination, motivation, effort, hard work, discipline, and sacrifice to work around all that prejudice, are you applauding their outcomes in spite of antisemitism, or, like IM2 and Newvine, are you looking for ways to discredit them by posting an opinion piece by a college intern who is condemning them?

The condemnation should go to the high out-of-wedlock birthrate, which is proven to correlate with poverty and crime, and yet you find a way to criticize Jews and enable blacks to lash out and blame everyone else for their problems.

 

[Lisa558]

I am fascinated. There have been some demands by various black groups for "reparations". "Reparations for what "? As to the "antisemitism"--do you deny that there is anti-jew feeling perpeturated by black leaders?

Some of these black leaders are the worst. We even had the Congressional Black Caucus invite Farrakhan to their conference (which they got a pass for), the Philly chapter president passed around a disgusting antisemitic cartoon (for which there were no repercussions), and a black DC Democrat councilman repeat a nasty Farrakhan anti-Jew conspiracy theory (and he now is running for DC mayor).

 

[Meister]

I heard on the talk radio last night a young Black man going to Auburn say,
"When everything is racism, nothing is racism." The young man's wisdom
goes way beyond his years.

 

[IM2]

I heard on the talk radio last night a young Black man going to Auburn say,
"When everything is racism, nothing is racism." The young man's wisdom
goes way beyond his years.

Well since everything is not racism, that young man is not so wise.

 

[Meister]

Well since everything is not racism, that young man is not so wise.

Not sure that you even understand, IM2.
Not with the filters you use. It's something you can't
get past. That's just an observation, and thank God
you are not the majority. You are an activist, and that I
understand.

 

[IM2]

Not sure that you even understand, IM2.
Not with the filters you use. It's something you can't
get past. That's just an observation, and thank God
you are not the majority. You are an activist, and that I
understand.

Look Meister, stop telling me what I don't understand. Everything is not racist and the only filter I use is truth. You and those like you gaslight. I am the majority of blacks Meister. Where you get the idea that the majority of blacks aren't like me, I don't know. And why do you have a problem only with blacks talking about race in the section of a discussion forum called race and racism?

I talk about politics in the politics section. I talk about sports in the sports section but for some reason you have problems with me talking about race in the race section. Now if I allowed myself to be tone policed and talked about race the way YOU want to hear it, by removing any responsibility from whites and blaming blacks for our "bad choices" you'd love me. And that's why we stay divided as a country because whites who think like you believe you don't have to listen but you get to tell us what, how, and why we are without having lived one second in our shoes.

 

[Meister]

Look Meister, stop telling me what I don't understand. Everything is not racist and the only filter I use is truth. You and those like you gaslight. I am the majority of blacks Meister. Where you get the idea that the majority of blacks aren't like me, I don't know. And why do you have a problem only with blacks talking about race in the section of a discussion forum called race and racism?

I talk about politics in the politics section. I talk about sports in the sports section but for some reason you have problems with me talking about race in the race section. Now if I allowed myself to be tone policed and talked about race the way YOU want to hear it, by removing any responsibility from whites and blaming blacks for our "bad choices" you'd love me. And that's why we stay divided as a country because whites who think like you believe you don't have to listen but you get to tell us what, how, and why we are without having lived one second in our shoes.

I've never seen you post anything other than racial posts. Everything leads to race with you and this board.
So yeah, think about it....when everything is racial, nothing is racial. And that just goes over your head.
IMO, you just use the opportunity in the race forum to browbeat everyone by calling them racists.
You don't seem to want a discussion, you want a brawl.

 

[IM2]

I've never seen you post anything other than racial posts. Everything leads to race with you and this board.
So yeah, think about it....when everything is racial, nothing is racial. And that just goes over your head.
IMO, you just use the opportunity in the race forum to browbeat everyone by calling them racists.
You don't seem to want a discussion, you want a brawl.

This is the race and racism section and despite what you choose to believe, white racism is a major problem faced by people of color.

Meister, you have this unique ability to ignore the racism coming from the whites here to tell me how I make everything about race. You guys are the ones who don't want discussions. I've posted facts of history, law and numerous studies about the impact of racism against blacks and all I get is stump stupid factless comments, slurs and personal attacks. Like you are doing now. You act like blacks talking to whites about racism is a problem. And you have a problem with blacks who don't say what you want to hear. So again, why don't you use the same energy that you use trying to gaslight me use it to confront the real racists here. Not blacks who you call racists because they point out racism or post about race more than some arbitrary number whites like you think is acceptable.

Everything is not racism and to say so is ignorant. Because you on the right have decided to make up your own definition of racism whereby any criticism about what whites are actually doing becomes racism. How convenient. Stop using comments from blacks that validate your beliefs about race. That's the problem and that young man has a rude awakening coming if he really believes that comment. I'm sure you can't understand how I can say that from your comfortable perch as a white man. But if you actually lived as a black person, you would understand how ludicrous that statement is. And don't try that I have to be a victim bullshit. That's just more gaslighting and then you wonder why I respond as I do.

 

[Meister]

This is the race and racism section and despite what you choose to believe, white racism is a major problem faced by people of color.

Meister, you have this unique ability to ignore the racism coming from the whites here to tell me how I make everything about race. You guys are the ones who don't want discussions. I've posted facts of history, law and numerous studies about the impact of racism against blacks and all I get is stump stupid factless comments, slurs and personal attacks. Like you are doing now. You act like blacks talking to whites about racism is a problem. And you have a problem with blacks who don't say what you want to hear. So again, why don't you use the same energy that you use trying to gaslight me use it to confront the real racists here. Not blacks who you call racists because they point out racism or post about race more than some arbitrary number whites like you think is acceptable.

Everything is not racism and to say so is ignorant. Because you on the right have decided to make up your own definition of racism whereby any criticism about what whites are actually doing becomes racism. How convenient. Stop using comments from blacks that validate your beliefs about race. That's the problem and that young man has a rude awakening coming if he really believes that comment. I'm sure you can't understand how I can say that from your comfortable perch as a white man. But if you actually lived as a black person, you would understand how ludicrous that statement is. And don't try that I have to be a victim bullshit. That's just more gaslighting and then you wonder why I respond as I do.

IM2, first, all you do is jump on racism, that's why I said what I said earlier.
Second, I'm not sure if you even know how many racists you have created while
you've been posting here. There is no doubt in my mind that there are posters
who weren't, and now are.
Your hatred trumps all.

 

[Lisa558]

IM2, first, all you do is jump on racism, that's why I said what I said earlier.
Second, I'm not sure if you even know how many racists you have created while
you've been posting here. There is no doubt in my mind that there are posters
who weren't, and now are.
Your hatred trumps all.

What I’ve also noticed is that he is quick to rage against any white who doesn’t deign speak to him in the submissive, apologetic tone he feels is his due, or expresses an opinion that doesn’t yield to his beliefs. He is ENRAGED when any of us express ourselves in a way that does not meet with his approval.

At the same time, he told me to stay out of the conversation because nothing I add is of any value.

Translation: others are to speak to him in a way and with content he permits, but then he tells other to, effectively, STFU.

 

[Lisa558]

I would like to back up and discuss the purpose of this thread, and why it is symptomatic of a larger problem among liberals that will lead us further and further into decline.

1) Although the headline is innocuous enough, the content is one of making sure Jews get no credit for their values and efforts, and Instead are condemned as acting out of selfish reasons. The thread is designed to complain about Jews by assigning bad reasons to their good behavior - and drive hostility toward them.

2) This is apparent with the main topic - the Jews who risked their lives (and I believe two young Jews were killed) to support the Civil Rights movement are called “selfish” - but also with the fact that often Jews were the only ones willing to rent to blacks, or to hire them. OP intercepted this as “exploiting” blacks - and thus defending the antisemitism among them.

3) Another liberal jumped in with an obscure article published by a college intern who claimed that American Jews did not welcome new arrivals because they viewed them as ignorant, dirty, and another negative I can’t remember. The truth, of course, is that American Jews did a tremendous amount to ease the transition for the new arrivals.

4) At the same time, no liberal has had anything critical to say about the behavior of any blacks - be it the shameful (yes, shameful) OOW birthrate or the high crime rate.

There is a larger problem here - and in related threads that are unwilling to give credit to Jews for their success amidst terrible antisemitism via hard work, solutions to the restrictions they faced, a positive “move forward attitude” and of course discipline and wise life choices - and that is the liberal tendency to disparage successful people (“you didn’t build that!” - Obama) in order to excuse the failures of others.

If we continue to have a country where successful people are disparaged and people who fail are excused of all responsibility - it’s someone else’s fault! - the decline cannot be reversed.

 

[AZrailwhale]

IM2, first, all you do is jump on racism, that's why I said what I said earlier.
Second, I'm not sure if you even know how many racists you have created while
you've been posting here. There is no doubt in my mind that there are posters
who weren't, and now are.
Your hatred trumps all.

People like IM2 don’t realize how many enemies they make. We’ve all seen him turn on people trying to defend him because they weren’t properly obsequious and dared to disagree with him on some minor point.

 

[BackAgain]

The “brevity” of this SECOND “take” is now at 260 posts. The sequel is now all but guaranteed.

 

[flacaltenn]

Flacaltenn, I find it funny how you say how a white Jew who you think is a grad student somewhere can't tell you about Jews in America but you as a white man has felt free to lecture me about what blacks should do, how blacks are being told what to think, the history of oyr relationshipss with Jews, how racism does not exist, how there is no systemic racism of the fact I say there is no black victimhood or victim mentality. Give up the paternalism.

That grad student is in ISRAEL. I told you the DIFFERENCE between ISRAELI views on American views history and AMERICAN views on domestic jewish history. They arrive at different opinions and conclusions there about "what's in the interests of Jews" than WE DO. And they have LOTS MORE POView than American Jews.

It would be like me finding a Ghana "black rights" group publishing an opinion paper on how "black victimhood" wasn't a good look for the Rainbow Coalition.