Zone1 A christian-atheist compromise?

[john54]

You said that I was hating. I don't hate him… In fact, I actually like him. I like a lot of his posts.

And now you're saying that I was being a proper Christian, which - correct me if I'm wrong - seems to imply that hating is part of Christianity.

If that's what you believe then you're just showing yet again, as you have throughout this whole thread, that you know nothing about Christianity.

I understand Christians use the word hate differently. Just as the southern slave owners didn't hate their negro slaves - they whipped them to remind them of their Christian duty to "be faithful to their human masters" as Paul so lovingly wrote.

Similarly I understand that in this warped and twisted world you live in you think telling gays they dishonor God and that their consensual relations are wrong and sending your kids to straight camps is loving. You're a proper role model for all Christians, like the master who tamed his less-than-human slaves in christ's name was a model to all proper white christian slave owners.

 

[buttercup]

I understand Christians use the word hate differently. Just as the southern slave owners didn't hate their negro slaves - they whipped them to remind them of their Christian duty to "be faithful to their human masters" as Paul so lovingly wrote.

Similarly I understand that in this warped and twisted world you live in you think telling gays they dishonor God and that their consensual relations are wrong and sending your kids to camps is loving. You're proper role models for all Christians, like the master who tamed his slaces innchrist's name was a model to all on the cotton farm.

Wow. Now I can see why you posted this thread. You have so much hatred in your heart for Christianity, and Christians.

Not only that, but you have a huge, deep lack of understanding of Christianity.

Did you know that the abolition movement was largely initiated and organized by Christians?

Hating people goes against my religion. Racism goes against my religion.

You really, really, really want to paint me in the way that YOU want Christianity to be. But your warped version of Christianity is just that - warped. It's not true Christianity. Jesus said that the second most important commandment is to love others, the only commandment more important is to love God.

So if you want to play that strawman, go right ahead. But any wise and informed person who reads this thread will know that you're fervently and emotionally attacking a strawman.

 

[john54]

Wow. Now I can see why you posted this thread. You have so much hatred in your heart for Christianity, and Christians.

Not only that, but you have a huge, deep lack of understanding of Christianity.

Did you know that the abolition movement was largely initiated and organized by Christians?

Hating people goes against my religion. Racism goes against my religion.

You really, really, really want to paint me in the way that YOU want Christianity to be. But your warped version of Christianity is just that - warped. It's not true Christianity. Jesus said that the second most important commandment is to love others, the only commandment more important is to love God.

So if you want to play that strawman, go right ahead. But any wise and informed person who reads this thread will know that you're fervently and emotionally attacking a strawman.

You're not loving gay people by insinuating there's something wrong with their natural leanings to love people of the same sex. You're not being kind. You're not being compassionate. You're striking a deep and dark chord that goes fundamentally against what it means to be humans and causes more harm to people who did nothing wrong to you than I think you realize.

 

[ding]

I would have a bone to grind if those other religions were the religions in power in this country at the moment. Frankly I'm concerned about Muslims gaining any more seats in the house and Islam getting its foot in the door to begin spreading and bringing us even more backwards in civilized thinking...I think all religion needs to come to an end at some point. It just isn't necessary. But moral teachings and mind-body artforms that religions have passed on are necessary, and there ought to be some sort of transition from archaic moral relativism based on mythology to a more modernized form of morality making use of the ancient arts without need for the myth.

That's already begun to happen - despite being cited no where in the Bible as wrong, pedophilia has been recognized as evil and it's entirely an almost-universally, globally recognized taboo. Despite gambling being nowhere in the Bible, it's recognized as a vice.

The same needs to happen for non-violence - how are we still having wars fought in this day and age? Non-violence should be at the absolute top of the list.

And maybe worst or near worst is all the problems with lying and it's no surprise people don't know how to properly fact-check when they believe in a God supported only by the most generously inductively reasoned out evidence. We can all do better than Christianity, Islam, hindhuism, etc. They were the training wheels, now it's time to ride.

Do you have socialist leaning tendencies per chance?

 

[ding]

On violence also, cinema and video games are just insanely violent and you don't hear a squeak from any Christian organizations about it - they're only concerned with sexuality.

The only major voice in the media to speak out against movie violence was atheist Bill Maher.

So you are saying you want religious organizations to control society?

 

[ding]

You're not loving gay people by insinuating there's something wrong with their natural leanings to love people of the same sex. You're not being kind. You're not being compassionate. You're striking a deep and dark chord that goes fundamentally against what it means to be humans and causes more harm to people who did nothing wrong to you than I think you realize.

Are you gay?

 

[john54]

Do you have socialist leaning tendencies per chance?

Nope. I think people need to learn to be generous and capitalism can work.

So you are saying you want religious organizations to control society?

How does "speak out" become "control"? Religions speak out plenty about sexuality in media, why not against violence?

 

[john54]

Are you gay?

No, but about half of my friends are gay or bi.

 

[buttercup]

You're not loving gay people by insinuating there's something wrong with their natural leanings to love people of the same sex. You're not being kind. You're not being compassionate. You're striking a deep and dark chord that goes fundamentally against what it means to be humans and causes more harm to people who did nothing wrong to you than I think you realize.

That's where you go wrong. You have a completely worldly perspective. Society is not the author of truth.

I'm not going to get into an off-topic discussion about homosexuality.

But I will say this, in response to what you just said.

Love and truth go hand in hand.

Love without truth and honesty is not real love.

Don't get me wrong… that does not mean that I am singling anyone or any group out, I don't believe in doing that. We are ALL sinners, and there are many straight people here who may think they're not sinners who actually are. Does stating that mean I hate straight people? No, it's just stating the truth.

 

[ding]

Nope. I think people need to learn to be generous and capitalism can work.

The reason I ask is because socialism has always sought to subordinate the dominant religion of the land like you are trying.

 

[john54]

The reason I ask is because socialism has always sought to subordinate the dominant religion of the land like you are trying.

Communism doesn't work at all. I've never been interested in a communist or socialist state.

 

[ding]

How does "speak out" become "control"? Religions speak out plenty about sexuality in media, why not against violence?

What good is speaking out if it doesn't change anything, right? Seems like you won't be satisfied until you right all of the wrongs.

 

[ding]

No, but about half of my friends are gay or bi.

Ahhh... there's the reason.

 

[john54]

That's where you go wrong. You have a completely worldly perspective. Society is not the author of truth.

I'm not going to get into an off-topic discussion about homosexuality.

But I will say this, in response to what you just said.

Love and truth go hand in hand.

Love without truth and honesty is not real love.

Don't get me wrong… that does not mean that I am singling anyone or any group out, I don't believe in doing that. We are ALL sinners, and there are many straight people here who may think they're not sinners who actually are. Does stating that mean I hate straight people? No, it's just stating the truth.

Ah, you're the smother-your-child-gently-with-a-pillow-type. How tender.

Do you know how many gay people have killed themselves because of "well-intentioned" family members and friends lovingly telling them their natural romantic feelings were sinful? Do you know you can be very nice and smiley and think you're understanding but you're hurting people in a really fucked up way.

 

[john54]

Ahhh... there's the reason.

It's 35% of the pie, because ofbthe personal element of christians making my friebds feel like shit. Most is just that factually it's wrong, but when you have something based fundamentally on myth and misunderstanding of nature it's natural that you'll start to think natural things like homosexuality (exhibited in about 5% of the members of most species) is unnatural. Bad premises create even worse premises.

It also kind of makes a joke out of all the moral stuff you were talking about if you're going to turn around and justify being homophobic.

 

[buttercup]

Ahhh... there's the reason.

I've come to realize that for atheists there's often an emotional reason why they don't believe. I have found that to be the case time and time again. In fact, it was that way with my father. Because of his horrible childhood and things that happened to him in his youth, he became a hardened atheist. And I have encountered so many other nonbelievers who became nonbelievers because of bad experiences they had with a particular church, or so-called christians.

But what they don't realize is that they're throwing out the baby with the bathwater. Fortunately, many people eventually realize that and become believers… the sad thing is when people never do.

 

[buttercup]

Ah, you're the smother your child gently with a-pillow-type. How tender.

What? I'm sorry but you're too filled with hate to have a reasonable conversation with. Again, I can see now why you posted this thread. You might take this the wrong way, but I really mean it... I will pray for you.

 

[john54]

What good is speaking out if it doesn't change anything, right? Seems like you won't be satisfied until you right all of the wrongs.

I said there's not even a squeak. Not even one mainstream movement to curb violence. Kids being graphically killed in shows meant for kids has become a new trend since about 7 years ago and no one speaks out. What effect do you think that has on kids, or anyone's minds for thst matter to see?

It's just one example where religion isn't addressing even of the most basic moral wrongs.

 

[ding]

It's 35% of the pie, because ofbthe personal element of christians making my friebds feel like shit. Most is just that factually it's wrong, but when you have something based fundamentally on myth and misunderstanding of nature it's natural that you'll start to think natural things like homosexuality (exhibited in about 5% of the members of most species) is unnatural. Bad premises create even worse premises.

It also kind of makes a joke out of all the moral stuff you were talking about if you're going to turn around and justify being homophobic.

The only one of us who has been judgmental is you.

 

[john54]

What? I'm sorry but you're too filled with hate to have a reasonable conversation with. Again, I can see now why you posted this thread. You might take this the wrong way, but I really mean it... I will pray for you.

No, I can't hate you, thankfully. I dated soneone who believes what you believe and i know you think gays being sinful is a fact because it's in the bible. I don't think you realize you have a problem and it causes harm.