A Conservative's view on waterboarding

[Wicked Jester]

Like you stand on the side of the Police when they beat confessions out of suspects too.

What the fuck is your drunken ass babbling about now?

You were a pilot correct?

you're repeating yourself. cookie.

cookie?.........What are you, a faggot?

 

[del]

What the fuck is your drunken ass babbling about now?

You were a pilot correct?

you're repeating yourself. cookie.

cookie?.........What are you, a faggot?

touch a nerve, honey?

 

[Wicked Jester]

you're repeating yourself. cookie.

cookie?.........What are you, a faggot?

touch a nerve, honey?

You're turning into a creepy lil' rope smoker, del.

 

[The Rabbi]

What the fuck is your drunken ass babbling about now?

You were a pilot correct?

you're repeating yourself. cookie.

cookie?.........What are you, a faggot?

Close.
300lb black transvestite named Roscoe. Works as a bouncer in a gay bar. Thus the pugnacious attitude backed up with the intellect of a cantaloupe.
Prove me wrong.

 

[del]

cookie?.........What are you, a faggot?

touch a nerve, honey?

You're turning into a creepy lil' rope smoker, del.

do these jeans make my ass look fat, darlin?

 

[Lonestar_logic]

you were there, huh?

Were you?

nope, but i'm not the one throwing out numbers.

see how that works, genius?

No you're the one that throws out insults and not much else.

 

[geauxtohell]

" But the case against waterboarding never rested primarily on its usefulness. It rested on its wrongfulness.

/\ This.

We are better than that. Or we should be if we are not.

 

[geauxtohell]

Moral of the story - waterboarding, which leaves no permenant damage, is wrong. Putting a bullet in an someone's head is A-OK.

Liberal logic at its best folks.

So, we should be a "cruel and unusual punishment" country now as well as a death sentence country.

Our troops have been waterboarded as part of their training, dumbass.

Yeah. To prepare them to handle what happens when they fall into the hands of ruthless and evil persons.

 

[The Rabbi]

" But the case against waterboarding never rested primarily on its usefulness. It rested on its wrongfulness.

/\ This.

We are better than that. Or we should be if we are not.

Better than what? Protecting Americans from terrorist threats? I'm sorry American lives mean so little to you that you would gladly sacrifice them for some ephemeral "moral highground" that really doesn't mean much.

 

[geauxtohell]

.

this message cannot be viewed because del is on your ignore list.

Del makes more and more good points with every post!

Nothing so inspiring as watching a grown man brag about putting someone on an internet ignore list.

Is the fact that you can't handle what another person types on an internet message board supposed to inspire the rest of us or something?

If you can't stand the heat, pull your head out of the oven.

 

[del]

" But the case against waterboarding never rested primarily on its usefulness. It rested on its wrongfulness.

/\ This.

We are better than that. Or we should be if we are not.

Better than what? Protecting Americans from terrorist threats? I'm sorry American lives mean so little to you that you would gladly sacrifice them for some ephemeral "moral highground" that really doesn't mean much.

as he said, we should be better than this.

most of us are.

 

[geauxtohell]

" But the case against waterboarding never rested primarily on its usefulness. It rested on its wrongfulness.

/\ This.

We are better than that. Or we should be if we are not.

Better than what? Protecting Americans from terrorist threats? I'm sorry American lives mean so little to you that you would gladly sacrifice them for some ephemeral "moral highground" that really doesn't mean much.

The ideals that we live by and the concepts that underlie this country are more important then American lives. If that were not so, we wouldn't have sent Americans to die in war to protect the notion of this country.

If we are so chickenshit and hypersensitive to the reality that we will again be attacked by terrorists and people will die no matter what we do that we are willing to change our fundamental beliefs, then perhaps we don't deserve what we have.

More ironic, the people that bemoan the "moral decay" of our society as evidence that our civilization is eroding are often the very same people that applaud this completely immoral act.

 

[Wicked Jester]

Of course he said they used the info.....ALL INFO available to track OBL down. Still can not prove he would not have been tracked down without the torture info... And STILL does not change the stance of the OP that the end does not justify the means...


Torture is unreliable, since people will often say anything — invent desperate fictions or diversions — to stop the pain or fear. That doesn’t mean waterboarding will never yield valuable information. Feeding a detainee into an industrial shredder, as Saddam Hussein’s torturers sometimes did, might yield valuable information too. But some techniques are forbidden not because they never work, not because they aren’t deserved, but because our very right to call ourselves decent human beings depends in part on our not doing them.

CIA chief: Waterboarding aided bin Laden raid Intelligence garnered from waterboarded detainees was used to track down al-Qaida leader Osama bin Laden and kill him, CIA Chief Leon Panetta told NBC News on Tuesday.

The current CIA director, Leon Panetta, is much less definitive on the subject. He told NBC News, "I think some of the detainees clearly were, you know, they used these enhanced interrogation techniques against some of these detainees. But I'm also saying that, you know, the debate about whether we would have gotten the same information through other approaches I think is always going to be an open question."

Highlight the full admission:

The debate about whether---whether WE WOULD HAVE gotten THE SAME INFORMATION through OTHER approaches I think is always gonna be an open question.

Meaning, the info came from waterboarding, and that there will always be a debate as to whether other means would have gotten the same admissions.

You lib's can spin it until the cows come home.....Waterboarding worked. The CIA and Special Ops used that info, in part, to hunt that dirty bastard down to put a bullet in his left eye and blow his brains out his right ear.

Obama and many other loony liberal idiots were wrong YET AGAIN on another damn issue...And that's driving his robotic like followers to scramble around like a bunch of fools, desperately trying to distance their beloved liberal hero's from their own abject stupidity and failed denials of the truth.......Truth being, Bush's policies worked, too include waterboarding, and Bush deserves just as much credit for the blowing out of Bin Laden's brains as Obama does.

Suck on it lib's!

 

[geauxtohell]

/\ This.

We are better than that. Or we should be if we are not.

Better than what? Protecting Americans from terrorist threats? I'm sorry American lives mean so little to you that you would gladly sacrifice them for some ephemeral "moral highground" that really doesn't mean much.

as he said, we should be better than this.

most of us are.

Show me a soldier that is willing to torture someone, and I will show you someone I wouldn't want to be responsible for in combat.

I would suspect they are a psychopath in a uniform.

 

[The Rabbi]

/\ This.

We are better than that. Or we should be if we are not.

Better than what? Protecting Americans from terrorist threats? I'm sorry American lives mean so little to you that you would gladly sacrifice them for some ephemeral "moral highground" that really doesn't mean much.

as he said, we should be better than this.

most of us are.

You keep repeating it like a mantra. But like most crap spewing out of esp your mouth, it means nothing.
"Better" in what sense? Better in feeling good about yourself? Better in thinking you're a moral person? Better because you don't like getting your hands dirty?

How about better at protecting innocent Americans from dying at the hands of fanatical terrorists? How about better at securing our lives and fortunes so we can do great things rather than spend time and money on a bunch of medieval throw-backs?

It isn't a question of protecting us with strong interrogration techniques (none dare call it torture) vs not using them. It is a question of protecting us vs not protecting us.

 

[The Rabbi]

/\ This.

We are better than that. Or we should be if we are not.

Better than what? Protecting Americans from terrorist threats? I'm sorry American lives mean so little to you that you would gladly sacrifice them for some ephemeral "moral highground" that really doesn't mean much.

The ideals that we live by and the concepts that underlie this country are more important then American lives. If that were not so, we wouldn't have sent Americans to die in war to protect the notion of this country.

If we are so chickenshit and hypersensitive to the reality that we will again be attacked by terrorists and people will die no matter what we do that we are willing to change our fundamental beliefs, then perhaps we don't deserve what we have.

More ironic, the people that bemoan the "moral decay" of our society as evidence that our civilization is eroding are often the very same people that applaud this completely immoral act.

What ideals are those? Martyrdom? I don't recall martyrdom being an ideal on our side.
We will be attacked again? That is fatalism. Again, not an American value although one common in Muslim countries.
You seem unable to articulate what a true American value is, instead adopting those of our terrorist enemies. And you don't see a problem?
"The Constitution is not a suicide pact." Bet you don't know who said it.

 

[geauxtohell]

Better than what? Protecting Americans from terrorist threats? I'm sorry American lives mean so little to you that you would gladly sacrifice them for some ephemeral "moral highground" that really doesn't mean much.

as he said, we should be better than this.

most of us are.

You keep repeating it like a mantra. But like most crap spewing out of esp your mouth, it means nothing.
"Better" in what sense? Better in feeling good about yourself? Better in thinking you're a moral person? Better because you don't like getting your hands dirty?

How about better at protecting innocent Americans from dying at the hands of fanatical terrorists? How about better at securing our lives and fortunes so we can do great things rather than spend time and money on a bunch of medieval throw-backs?

It isn't a question of protecting us with strong interrogration techniques (none dare call it torture) vs not using them. It is a question of protecting us vs not protecting us.

How about you invest in some vagisil and admit the truth that you, I, and the rest of the thinking world knows:

Americans will be killed again on our shores by terrorists regardless of what we do.

If you think any person or policy can offer you 100% security, you are a fool.

Once you concede that and get over your fear of dying at the hands of a terrorist, the concept of not letting this country corrode from the inside out becomes larger then your or my petty little existence.

How do we defeat terrorists by acting like terrorists?

 

[geauxtohell]

Better than what? Protecting Americans from terrorist threats? I'm sorry American lives mean so little to you that you would gladly sacrifice them for some ephemeral "moral highground" that really doesn't mean much.

The ideals that we live by and the concepts that underlie this country are more important then American lives. If that were not so, we wouldn't have sent Americans to die in war to protect the notion of this country.

If we are so chickenshit and hypersensitive to the reality that we will again be attacked by terrorists and people will die no matter what we do that we are willing to change our fundamental beliefs, then perhaps we don't deserve what we have.

More ironic, the people that bemoan the "moral decay" of our society as evidence that our civilization is eroding are often the very same people that applaud this completely immoral act.

What ideals are those? Martyrdom? I don't recall martyrdom being an ideal on our side.
We will be attacked again? That is fatalism. Again, not an American value although one common in Muslim countries.
You seem unable to articulate what a true American value is, instead adopting those of our terrorist enemies. And you don't see a problem?
"The Constitution is not a suicide pact." Bet you don't know who said it.

Pragmatism is fatalism. If you need to go through life with a security blanket and tell yourself that, if we are just evil enough to the people we claim are evil, we will be safe; then go for it.

You aren't convincing anyone other than yourself.

 

[The Rabbi]

as he said, we should be better than this.

most of us are.

You keep repeating it like a mantra. But like most crap spewing out of esp your mouth, it means nothing.
"Better" in what sense? Better in feeling good about yourself? Better in thinking you're a moral person? Better because you don't like getting your hands dirty?

How about better at protecting innocent Americans from dying at the hands of fanatical terrorists? How about better at securing our lives and fortunes so we can do great things rather than spend time and money on a bunch of medieval throw-backs?

It isn't a question of protecting us with strong interrogration techniques (none dare call it torture) vs not using them. It is a question of protecting us vs not protecting us.

How about you invest in some vagisil and admit the truth that you, I, and the rest of the thinking world knows:

Americans will be killed again on our shores by terrorists regardless of what we do.

If you think any person or policy can offer you 100% security, you are a fool.

Once you concede that and get over your fear of dying at the hands of a terrorist, the concept of not letting this country corrode from the inside out becomes larger then your or my petty little existence.

How do we defeat terrorists by acting like terrorists?

I hadnt realized fatalism and a death wish were American values.
Why are we fighting at all? Why don't we just disarm and let al Qaeda run the place?
It was your ilk that advocated unilateral nuclear disarmament against the Soviets. And that was proved as wrong headed as anything.

Since you're so fatalistic, why don't you volunteer yourself to be the first victim. Or let a family member get beheaded.

 

[The Rabbi]

The ideals that we live by and the concepts that underlie this country are more important then American lives. If that were not so, we wouldn't have sent Americans to die in war to protect the notion of this country.

If we are so chickenshit and hypersensitive to the reality that we will again be attacked by terrorists and people will die no matter what we do that we are willing to change our fundamental beliefs, then perhaps we don't deserve what we have.

More ironic, the people that bemoan the "moral decay" of our society as evidence that our civilization is eroding are often the very same people that applaud this completely immoral act.

What ideals are those? Martyrdom? I don't recall martyrdom being an ideal on our side.
We will be attacked again? That is fatalism. Again, not an American value although one common in Muslim countries.
You seem unable to articulate what a true American value is, instead adopting those of our terrorist enemies. And you don't see a problem?
"The Constitution is not a suicide pact." Bet you don't know who said it.

Pragmatism is fatalism. If you need to go through life with a security blanket and tell yourself that, if we are just evil enough to the people we claim are evil, we will be safe; then go for it.

You aren't convincing anyone other than yourself.

So to be clear: You hold the basic American values are martyrdom and fatalism and those are worth more than any human life.
You are entitled to your own opinion, I guess.