Debate Now A discussion about the efficacy of Trump's merit based criteria for immigration eligibility

[usmbguest5318]

Discussion Rubric:
So, one of Trump's stated changes to immigration policy mean that rather than vying for jobs the low end of pay scales, the only immigrants that will be admitted will be ones who can compete at the upper middle segment of them. Well, okay....that's not doing anything helpful for people who qualify only for low-wage (or relatively so) jobs, and such people are the ones griping about immigrants "taking their jobs." Moreover, people in the skill ranges into which immigrants must now fall have long competed quite effectively against immigrants. To wit, in my firm the only reason we hire/sponsor immigrants for jobs ("H1B immigrants") is because we can't find Americans who are qualified for them and who have also applied for them.

Thread Topic/Questions:

• How much good do you think will come as a result of the "merit" criteria Trump has stipulated for aspiring immigrants to the U.S? What is the nature of the good you think it will do? How and why will the new policy produce the nature and extent of "goodness" you've posited it will deliver?

Thread Rules:

1. Support your answer with something sound and credible, i.e., a strong inductive or deductive argument.
2. Do not post an opinion -- your own or anyone else's -- that is not supported with a sound and credible argument. Include links for existential and behavioral assertions you provide to support your opinion/claims/premises about things and that are less obvious than is the mere existence (or lack thereof) of a nose on one's face.
3. Adhere strictly to rules one and two, along with USMB stipulated SDF rules.

 

[Unkotare]

H-1b's suck. They are ugly, smell like curry, never have anything interesting to say, will try and stick you with the brunch tab, and cheat on their taxes. Let them stay in China where they belong. Do you see swarms of white US kids over there stealing their state secrets? No, you don't. Our kids are over there enjoying the cheap, high quality heroin. If the Chinese want to come visit so bad, why can't they just do our drugs and stop driving down the wages of the kids from India?....

What does any of that mean?

 

[9thIDdoc]

A working taxpaying citizen is an asset. A welfare/charity receiving leech on the system helps tear down rather than rebuild. Seems like a no brainer to me.

 

[TNHarley]

What I'm scratching my head about is the "speak English" requirement.
How does anyone in a skilled position who does NOT speak English function effectively in an American workplace? Anyone know? My assumption is that the vast majority of those folks do speak English, or they wouldn't be coming here to work. So the law doesn't change up the type of folks who would be coming here with skills in the first place. But it sends a signal to Trump's xenophobic base.

One other question, are these PERMANENT immigrants the bill is talking about, or the temporary workers that flood the country? Or isn't there actually a difference?

Census Bureau said almost half of legal immigrants cant speak good english. 15% cant speak english at all. But lets just assume so we can pull out the "phobe" card.

 

[OldLady]

What I'm scratching my head about is the "speak English" requirement.
How does anyone in a skilled position who does NOT speak English function effectively in an American workplace? Anyone know? My assumption is that the vast majority of those folks do speak English, or they wouldn't be coming here to work. So the law doesn't change up the type of folks who would be coming here with skills in the first place. But it sends a signal to Trump's xenophobic base.

One other question, are these PERMANENT immigrants the bill is talking about, or the temporary workers that flood the country? Or isn't there actually a difference?

Census Bureau said almost half of legal immigrants cant speak good english. 15% cant speak english at all. But lets just assume so we can pull out the "phobe" card.

How does anyone in a skilled position who does NOT speak English function effectively in an American workplace? Do you know?
Yes, it's a phobe thing. Every student of a foreign language knows you don't become actually proficient in it until you are "immersed" in it by going to a country where it is written and spoken all around you. So immigrants will learn the language once they get here, if it's so important to you. Why is that?
I don't know how what you said in any way contradicts what I said.

 

[Unkotare]

What I'm scratching my head about is the "speak English" requirement.
How does anyone in a skilled position who does NOT speak English function effectively in an American workplace? Anyone know? My assumption is that the vast majority of those folks do speak English, or they wouldn't be coming here to work. So the law doesn't change up the type of folks who would be coming here with skills in the first place. But it sends a signal to Trump's xenophobic base.

One other question, are these PERMANENT immigrants the bill is talking about, or the temporary workers that flood the country? Or isn't there actually a difference?

Census Bureau said almost half of legal immigrants cant speak good english [sic].

 

[OldLady]

And what is Stephen Miller doing taking a press briefing? Holy Toledo, another total hothead administration spokesman? Sarah Sanders should NOT be allowed to take any days off. Ever.

 

[TNHarley]

What I'm scratching my head about is the "speak English" requirement.
How does anyone in a skilled position who does NOT speak English function effectively in an American workplace? Anyone know? My assumption is that the vast majority of those folks do speak English, or they wouldn't be coming here to work. So the law doesn't change up the type of folks who would be coming here with skills in the first place. But it sends a signal to Trump's xenophobic base.

One other question, are these PERMANENT immigrants the bill is talking about, or the temporary workers that flood the country? Or isn't there actually a difference?

Census Bureau said almost half of legal immigrants cant speak good english. 15% cant speak english at all. But lets just assume so we can pull out the "phobe" card.

How does anyone in a skilled position who does NOT speak English function effectively in an American workplace? Do you know?
Yes, it's a phobe thing. Every student of a foreign language knows you don't become actually proficient in it until you are "immersed" in it by going to a country where it is written and spoken all around you. So immigrants will learn the language once they get here, if it's so important to you. Why is that?
I don't know how what you said in any way contradicts what I said.

My assumption is that the vast majority of those folks do speak English, or they wouldn't be coming here to work
https://www.census.gov/prod/2014pubs/acs-26.pdf
Choke on that.
Bringing up a ridiculous regressive term like "phobe" is the epitome of desperation or hate. Especially when you have no freakin idea what you are talking about. At least you admit your bigotry is based off of "assumption"

 

[OldLady]

What I'm scratching my head about is the "speak English" requirement.
How does anyone in a skilled position who does NOT speak English function effectively in an American workplace? Anyone know? My assumption is that the vast majority of those folks do speak English, or they wouldn't be coming here to work. So the law doesn't change up the type of folks who would be coming here with skills in the first place. But it sends a signal to Trump's xenophobic base.

One other question, are these PERMANENT immigrants the bill is talking about, or the temporary workers that flood the country? Or isn't there actually a difference?

Census Bureau said almost half of legal immigrants cant speak good english. 15% cant speak english at all. But lets just assume so we can pull out the "phobe" card.

How does anyone in a skilled position who does NOT speak English function effectively in an American workplace? Do you know?
Yes, it's a phobe thing. Every student of a foreign language knows you don't become actually proficient in it until you are "immersed" in it by going to a country where it is written and spoken all around you. So immigrants will learn the language once they get here, if it's so important to you. Why is that?
I don't know how what you said in any way contradicts what I said.

My assumption is that the vast majority of those folks do speak English, or they wouldn't be coming here to work
https://www.census.gov/prod/2014pubs/acs-26.pdf
Choke on that.
Bringing up a ridiculous regressive term like "phobe" is the epitome of desperation or hate. Especially when you have no freakin idea what you are talking about. At least you admit your bigotry is based off of "assumption"

You did catch the fact that I was talking about the "skilled workers" which will now be given precedence, right? Unless you've got some kind of breakdown showing that the skilled professionals entering this country to work do NOT speak English, you're still not answering my point.

 

[TNHarley]

What I'm scratching my head about is the "speak English" requirement.
How does anyone in a skilled position who does NOT speak English function effectively in an American workplace? Anyone know? My assumption is that the vast majority of those folks do speak English, or they wouldn't be coming here to work. So the law doesn't change up the type of folks who would be coming here with skills in the first place. But it sends a signal to Trump's xenophobic base.

One other question, are these PERMANENT immigrants the bill is talking about, or the temporary workers that flood the country? Or isn't there actually a difference?

Census Bureau said almost half of legal immigrants cant speak good english. 15% cant speak english at all. But lets just assume so we can pull out the "phobe" card.

How does anyone in a skilled position who does NOT speak English function effectively in an American workplace? Do you know?
Yes, it's a phobe thing. Every student of a foreign language knows you don't become actually proficient in it until you are "immersed" in it by going to a country where it is written and spoken all around you. So immigrants will learn the language once they get here, if it's so important to you. Why is that?
I don't know how what you said in any way contradicts what I said.

My assumption is that the vast majority of those folks do speak English, or they wouldn't be coming here to work
https://www.census.gov/prod/2014pubs/acs-26.pdf
Choke on that.
Bringing up a ridiculous regressive term like "phobe" is the epitome of desperation or hate. Especially when you have no freakin idea what you are talking about. At least you admit your bigotry is based off of "assumption"

You did catch the fact that I was talking about the "skilled workers" which will now be given precedence, right? Unless you've got some kind of breakdown showing that the skilled professionals entering this country to work do NOT speak English, you're still not answering my point.

Your "point" is a fabrication. You want me to discredit something you just farted out randomly? LOL
Also, you realize its more than just english, right? They have to have certains skills that will benefit us and they must be able to support themselves.
Beides, "skilled professionals" are only one category of work VISAs we give. One of them are for agriculture. How many lettuce pickers do you think learn how to speak english?
This shit is common sense. You are just being retarded. "xenophobes"

 

[longknife]

What I'm scratching my head about is the "speak English" requirement.
How does anyone in a skilled position who does NOT speak English function effectively in an American workplace? Anyone know? My assumption is that the vast majority of those folks do speak English, or they wouldn't be coming here to work. So the law doesn't change up the type of folks who would be coming here with skills in the first place. But it sends a signal to Trump's xenophobic base.

One other question, are these PERMANENT immigrants the bill is talking about, or the temporary workers that flood the country? Or isn't there actually a difference?

Census Bureau said almost half of legal immigrants cant speak good english. 15% cant speak english at all. But lets just assume so we can pull out the "phobe" card.

How does anyone in a skilled position who does NOT speak English function effectively in an American workplace? Do you know?
Yes, it's a phobe thing. Every student of a foreign language knows you don't become actually proficient in it until you are "immersed" in it by going to a country where it is written and spoken all around you. So immigrants will learn the language once they get here, if it's so important to you. Why is that?
I don't know how what you said in any way contradicts what I said.

While Chinese is spoken by more people, English is spoken world-wide by professionals and technicians. It is mandatory in most foreign colleges and universities. You name a single segment of international commerce and
English plays an important part.

I simply think the president is raising the level of those we allow into this country. And immigration is a present - NOT A RIGHT!

 

[OldLady]

What I'm scratching my head about is the "speak English" requirement.
How does anyone in a skilled position who does NOT speak English function effectively in an American workplace? Anyone know? My assumption is that the vast majority of those folks do speak English, or they wouldn't be coming here to work. So the law doesn't change up the type of folks who would be coming here with skills in the first place. But it sends a signal to Trump's xenophobic base.

One other question, are these PERMANENT immigrants the bill is talking about, or the temporary workers that flood the country? Or isn't there actually a difference?

Census Bureau said almost half of legal immigrants cant speak good english. 15% cant speak english at all. But lets just assume so we can pull out the "phobe" card.

How does anyone in a skilled position who does NOT speak English function effectively in an American workplace? Do you know?
Yes, it's a phobe thing. Every student of a foreign language knows you don't become actually proficient in it until you are "immersed" in it by going to a country where it is written and spoken all around you. So immigrants will learn the language once they get here, if it's so important to you. Why is that?
I don't know how what you said in any way contradicts what I said.

While Chinese is spoken by more people, English is spoken world-wide by professionals and technicians. It is mandatory in most foreign colleges and universities. You name a single segment of international commerce and
English plays an important part.

I simply think the president is raising the level of those we allow into this country. And immigration is a present - NOT A RIGHT!

What I'm scratching my head about is the "speak English" requirement.
How does anyone in a skilled position who does NOT speak English function effectively in an American workplace? Anyone know? My assumption is that the vast majority of those folks do speak English, or they wouldn't be coming here to work. So the law doesn't change up the type of folks who would be coming here with skills in the first place. But it sends a signal to Trump's xenophobic base.

One other question, are these PERMANENT immigrants the bill is talking about, or the temporary workers that flood the country? Or isn't there actually a difference?

Census Bureau said almost half of legal immigrants cant speak good english. 15% cant speak english at all. But lets just assume so we can pull out the "phobe" card.

How does anyone in a skilled position who does NOT speak English function effectively in an American workplace? Do you know?
Yes, it's a phobe thing. Every student of a foreign language knows you don't become actually proficient in it until you are "immersed" in it by going to a country where it is written and spoken all around you. So immigrants will learn the language once they get here, if it's so important to you. Why is that?
I don't know how what you said in any way contradicts what I said.

My assumption is that the vast majority of those folks do speak English, or they wouldn't be coming here to work
https://www.census.gov/prod/2014pubs/acs-26.pdf
Choke on that.
Bringing up a ridiculous regressive term like "phobe" is the epitome of desperation or hate. Especially when you have no freakin idea what you are talking about. At least you admit your bigotry is based off of "assumption"

You did catch the fact that I was talking about the "skilled workers" which will now be given precedence, right? Unless you've got some kind of breakdown showing that the skilled professionals entering this country to work do NOT speak English, you're still not answering my point.

Your "point" is a fabrication. You want me to discredit something you just farted out randomly? LOL
Also, you realize its more than just english, right? They have to have certains skills that will benefit us and they must be able to support themselves.
Beides, "skilled professionals" are only one category of work VISAs we give. One of them are for agriculture. How many lettuce pickers do you think learn how to speak english?
This shit is common sense. You are just being retarded. "xenophobes"

TN, you are truly befuddled this morning. Read what Longknife said. That was pretty much the point I was making. Trump wants skilled workers admitted, the others not so much. I was just saying that the skilled workers probably already KNOW English, so what's the big shake up? The only thing new is saying no to unskilled workers. That's up to the economists to decide. The English provision is nonsense. The low skilled workers who don't speak English won't get in anyway if the bill goes through, right? He's cutting them out? SO THE ENGLISH PROVISION DOESN'T NEED TO BE THERE. It's just a dog whistle.

 

[TNHarley]

What I'm scratching my head about is the "speak English" requirement.
How does anyone in a skilled position who does NOT speak English function effectively in an American workplace? Anyone know? My assumption is that the vast majority of those folks do speak English, or they wouldn't be coming here to work. So the law doesn't change up the type of folks who would be coming here with skills in the first place. But it sends a signal to Trump's xenophobic base.

One other question, are these PERMANENT immigrants the bill is talking about, or the temporary workers that flood the country? Or isn't there actually a difference?

Census Bureau said almost half of legal immigrants cant speak good english. 15% cant speak english at all. But lets just assume so we can pull out the "phobe" card.

How does anyone in a skilled position who does NOT speak English function effectively in an American workplace? Do you know?
Yes, it's a phobe thing. Every student of a foreign language knows you don't become actually proficient in it until you are "immersed" in it by going to a country where it is written and spoken all around you. So immigrants will learn the language once they get here, if it's so important to you. Why is that?
I don't know how what you said in any way contradicts what I said.

While Chinese is spoken by more people, English is spoken world-wide by professionals and technicians. It is mandatory in most foreign colleges and universities. You name a single segment of international commerce and
English plays an important part.

I simply think the president is raising the level of those we allow into this country. And immigration is a present - NOT A RIGHT!

Census Bureau said almost half of legal immigrants cant speak good english. 15% cant speak english at all. But lets just assume so we can pull out the "phobe" card.

How does anyone in a skilled position who does NOT speak English function effectively in an American workplace? Do you know?
Yes, it's a phobe thing. Every student of a foreign language knows you don't become actually proficient in it until you are "immersed" in it by going to a country where it is written and spoken all around you. So immigrants will learn the language once they get here, if it's so important to you. Why is that?
I don't know how what you said in any way contradicts what I said.

My assumption is that the vast majority of those folks do speak English, or they wouldn't be coming here to work
https://www.census.gov/prod/2014pubs/acs-26.pdf
Choke on that.
Bringing up a ridiculous regressive term like "phobe" is the epitome of desperation or hate. Especially when you have no freakin idea what you are talking about. At least you admit your bigotry is based off of "assumption"

You did catch the fact that I was talking about the "skilled workers" which will now be given precedence, right? Unless you've got some kind of breakdown showing that the skilled professionals entering this country to work do NOT speak English, you're still not answering my point.

Your "point" is a fabrication. You want me to discredit something you just farted out randomly? LOL
Also, you realize its more than just english, right? They have to have certains skills that will benefit us and they must be able to support themselves.
Beides, "skilled professionals" are only one category of work VISAs we give. One of them are for agriculture. How many lettuce pickers do you think learn how to speak english?
This shit is common sense. You are just being retarded. "xenophobes"

TN, you are truly befuddled this morning. Read what Longknife said. That was pretty much the point I was making. Trump wants skilled workers admitted, the others not so much. I was just saying that the skilled workers probably already KNOW English, so what's the big shake up? The only thing new is saying no to unskilled workers. That's up to the economists to decide. The English provision is nonsense. The low skilled workers who don't speak English won't get in anyway if the bill goes through, right? He's cutting them out? SO THE ENGLISH PROVISION DOESN'T NEED TO BE THERE. It's just a dog whistle.

Fine. Then prove your assertion.

 

[OldLady]

What I'm scratching my head about is the "speak English" requirement.
How does anyone in a skilled position who does NOT speak English function effectively in an American workplace? Anyone know? My assumption is that the vast majority of those folks do speak English, or they wouldn't be coming here to work. So the law doesn't change up the type of folks who would be coming here with skills in the first place. But it sends a signal to Trump's xenophobic base.

One other question, are these PERMANENT immigrants the bill is talking about, or the temporary workers that flood the country? Or isn't there actually a difference?

Census Bureau said almost half of legal immigrants cant speak good english. 15% cant speak english at all. But lets just assume so we can pull out the "phobe" card.

How does anyone in a skilled position who does NOT speak English function effectively in an American workplace? Do you know?
Yes, it's a phobe thing. Every student of a foreign language knows you don't become actually proficient in it until you are "immersed" in it by going to a country where it is written and spoken all around you. So immigrants will learn the language once they get here, if it's so important to you. Why is that?
I don't know how what you said in any way contradicts what I said.

While Chinese is spoken by more people, English is spoken world-wide by professionals and technicians. It is mandatory in most foreign colleges and universities. You name a single segment of international commerce and
English plays an important part.

I simply think the president is raising the level of those we allow into this country. And immigration is a present - NOT A RIGHT!

How does anyone in a skilled position who does NOT speak English function effectively in an American workplace? Do you know?
Yes, it's a phobe thing. Every student of a foreign language knows you don't become actually proficient in it until you are "immersed" in it by going to a country where it is written and spoken all around you. So immigrants will learn the language once they get here, if it's so important to you. Why is that?
I don't know how what you said in any way contradicts what I said.

My assumption is that the vast majority of those folks do speak English, or they wouldn't be coming here to work
https://www.census.gov/prod/2014pubs/acs-26.pdf
Choke on that.
Bringing up a ridiculous regressive term like "phobe" is the epitome of desperation or hate. Especially when you have no freakin idea what you are talking about. At least you admit your bigotry is based off of "assumption"

You did catch the fact that I was talking about the "skilled workers" which will now be given precedence, right? Unless you've got some kind of breakdown showing that the skilled professionals entering this country to work do NOT speak English, you're still not answering my point.

Your "point" is a fabrication. You want me to discredit something you just farted out randomly? LOL
Also, you realize its more than just english, right? They have to have certains skills that will benefit us and they must be able to support themselves.
Beides, "skilled professionals" are only one category of work VISAs we give. One of them are for agriculture. How many lettuce pickers do you think learn how to speak english?
This shit is common sense. You are just being retarded. "xenophobes"

TN, you are truly befuddled this morning. Read what Longknife said. That was pretty much the point I was making. Trump wants skilled workers admitted, the others not so much. I was just saying that the skilled workers probably already KNOW English, so what's the big shake up? The only thing new is saying no to unskilled workers. That's up to the economists to decide. The English provision is nonsense. The low skilled workers who don't speak English won't get in anyway if the bill goes through, right? He's cutting them out? SO THE ENGLISH PROVISION DOESN'T NEED TO BE THERE. It's just a dog whistle.

Fine. Then prove your assertion.

What assertion?

 

[TNHarley]

Census Bureau said almost half of legal immigrants cant speak good english. 15% cant speak english at all. But lets just assume so we can pull out the "phobe" card.

How does anyone in a skilled position who does NOT speak English function effectively in an American workplace? Do you know?
Yes, it's a phobe thing. Every student of a foreign language knows you don't become actually proficient in it until you are "immersed" in it by going to a country where it is written and spoken all around you. So immigrants will learn the language once they get here, if it's so important to you. Why is that?
I don't know how what you said in any way contradicts what I said.

While Chinese is spoken by more people, English is spoken world-wide by professionals and technicians. It is mandatory in most foreign colleges and universities. You name a single segment of international commerce and
English plays an important part.

I simply think the president is raising the level of those we allow into this country. And immigration is a present - NOT A RIGHT!

My assumption is that the vast majority of those folks do speak English, or they wouldn't be coming here to work
https://www.census.gov/prod/2014pubs/acs-26.pdf
Choke on that.
Bringing up a ridiculous regressive term like "phobe" is the epitome of desperation or hate. Especially when you have no freakin idea what you are talking about. At least you admit your bigotry is based off of "assumption"

You did catch the fact that I was talking about the "skilled workers" which will now be given precedence, right? Unless you've got some kind of breakdown showing that the skilled professionals entering this country to work do NOT speak English, you're still not answering my point.

Your "point" is a fabrication. You want me to discredit something you just farted out randomly? LOL
Also, you realize its more than just english, right? They have to have certains skills that will benefit us and they must be able to support themselves.
Beides, "skilled professionals" are only one category of work VISAs we give. One of them are for agriculture. How many lettuce pickers do you think learn how to speak english?
This shit is common sense. You are just being retarded. "xenophobes"

TN, you are truly befuddled this morning. Read what Longknife said. That was pretty much the point I was making. Trump wants skilled workers admitted, the others not so much. I was just saying that the skilled workers probably already KNOW English, so what's the big shake up? The only thing new is saying no to unskilled workers. That's up to the economists to decide. The English provision is nonsense. The low skilled workers who don't speak English won't get in anyway if the bill goes through, right? He's cutting them out? SO THE ENGLISH PROVISION DOESN'T NEED TO BE THERE. It's just a dog whistle.

Fine. Then prove your assertion.

What assertion?

nevermind

 

[cnelsen]

But it sends a signal to Trump's xenophobic base.

Here's to xenophobes. They're the adults in the room.

 

[Darkwind]

What I'm scratching my head about is the "speak English" requirement.
How does anyone in a skilled position who does NOT speak English function effectively in an American workplace? Anyone know? My assumption is that the vast majority of those folks do speak English, or they wouldn't be coming here to work. So the law doesn't change up the type of folks who would be coming here with skills in the first place. But it sends a signal to Trump's xenophobic base.

One other question, are these PERMANENT immigrants the bill is talking about, or the temporary workers that flood the country? Or isn't there actually a difference?

Census Bureau said almost half of legal immigrants cant speak good english. 15% cant speak english at all. But lets just assume so we can pull out the "phobe" card.

How does anyone in a skilled position who does NOT speak English function effectively in an American workplace? Do you know?
Yes, it's a phobe thing. Every student of a foreign language knows you don't become actually proficient in it until you are "immersed" in it by going to a country where it is written and spoken all around you. So immigrants will learn the language once they get here, if it's so important to you. Why is that?
I don't know how what you said in any way contradicts what I said.

Sort of the whole point of the policy, isn't it? They don't function effectively, so some level of proficiency in the language is a requirement.

 

[cnelsen]

What I'm scratching my head about is the "speak English" requirement.
How does anyone in a skilled position who does NOT speak English function effectively in an American workplace? Anyone know? My assumption is that the vast majority of those folks do speak English, or they wouldn't be coming here to work. So the law doesn't change up the type of folks who would be coming here with skills in the first place. But it sends a signal to Trump's xenophobic base.

One other question, are these PERMANENT immigrants the bill is talking about, or the temporary workers that flood the country? Or isn't there actually a difference?

Census Bureau said almost half of legal immigrants cant speak good english. 15% cant speak english at all. But lets just assume so we can pull out the "phobe" card.

How does anyone in a skilled position who does NOT speak English function effectively in an American workplace? Do you know?
Yes, it's a phobe thing. Every student of a foreign language knows you don't become actually proficient in it until you are "immersed" in it by going to a country where it is written and spoken all around you. So immigrants will learn the language once they get here, if it's so important to you. Why is that?
I don't know how what you said in any way contradicts what I said.

What happens is that a lot of people most exercised by the language component are actually substituting language for culture. They feel protective of the culture and don't want a bunch of aliens coming in and messing it up. Which is fine, and normal, and healthy, and always has been everywhere in the world. Such people have always been lauded as the good people. Unless they are white. If you are white and protective of your culture, you are the most vile creature that ever lived. So rather than have a bunch of Jews shrieking "Nazi" at them, those people transfer their misgivings to language concerns.

 

[Darkwind]

Discussion Rubric:
So, one of Trump's stated changes to immigration policy mean that rather than vying for jobs the low end of pay scales, the only immigrants that will be admitted will be ones who can compete at the upper middle segment of them. Well, okay....that's not doing anything helpful for people who qualify only for low-wage (or relatively so) jobs, and such people are the ones griping about immigrants "taking their jobs." Moreover, people in the skill ranges into which immigrants must now fall have long competed quite effectively against immigrants. To wit, in my firm the only reason we hire/sponsor immigrants for jobs ("H1B immigrants") is because we can't find Americans who are qualified for them and who have also applied for them.

Thread Topic/Questions:

• How much good do you think will come as a result of the "merit" criteria Trump has stipulated for aspiring immigrants to the U.S? What is the nature of the good you think it will do? How and why will the new policy produce the nature and extent of "goodness" you've posited it will deliver?

Thread Rules:

1. Support your answer with something sound and credible, i.e., a strong inductive or deductive argument.
2. Do not post an opinion -- your own or anyone else's -- that is not supported with a sound and credible argument. Include links for existential and behavioral assertions you provide to support your opinion/claims/premises about things and that are less obvious than is the mere existence (or lack thereof) of a nose on one's face.
3. Adhere strictly to rules one and two, along with USMB stipulated SDF rules.

I guess I would counter this as more of the 'moving target' agenda. If this administration were to tailor immigration to favor the poor, you would move the target to the middle class. This policy seeks to aid America through the middle class and now the target is the poor.

By requiring an education (the merit part of merit based) it can be argued that this takes pressure off the lower income people because they won't be competing against these new green card holders.

I am curious, however; who determines what is sound and credible? You?

 

[OldLady]

What I'm scratching my head about is the "speak English" requirement.
How does anyone in a skilled position who does NOT speak English function effectively in an American workplace? Anyone know? My assumption is that the vast majority of those folks do speak English, or they wouldn't be coming here to work. So the law doesn't change up the type of folks who would be coming here with skills in the first place. But it sends a signal to Trump's xenophobic base.

One other question, are these PERMANENT immigrants the bill is talking about, or the temporary workers that flood the country? Or isn't there actually a difference?

Census Bureau said almost half of legal immigrants cant speak good english. 15% cant speak english at all. But lets just assume so we can pull out the "phobe" card.

How does anyone in a skilled position who does NOT speak English function effectively in an American workplace? Do you know?
Yes, it's a phobe thing. Every student of a foreign language knows you don't become actually proficient in it until you are "immersed" in it by going to a country where it is written and spoken all around you. So immigrants will learn the language once they get here, if it's so important to you. Why is that?
I don't know how what you said in any way contradicts what I said.

Sort of the whole point of the policy, isn't it? They don't function effectively, so some level of proficiency in the language is a requirement.

Okay. No argument it helps to speak English when you are living in a country that is de facto an English speaking country (although we will not, for political reason, call it our "official" language).
It seems the whole point of the policy is to eliminate as much as possible the unskilled workers who are stealing jobs from unskilled Americans. Trump wants to put African American drop outs to work in the lettuce fields, I guess. Stephen Miller seemed to feel this would be quite a boon to them and all the other unskilled Americans currently out of work and collecting welfare.