A few questions for the fundies

[Correll]

Normally I am not into playing along with people playing dumb, but this is a simple cut and paste, so...






Correct me if I'm wrong, but you've lived your entire life in a Western society. The people you've observed and made judgements about have also lived most or all of their lives in a Western society. The books you've read, movies you've watched, etc. were pretty much all created by people who lived most or all of their lives in Western societies. So basically, the moral standards permeating everything upon which you've made your judgements regarding right and wrong have been based on Western societal norms.

And, of course, Western civilization was built by and is heavily based on Christianity, and is completely permeated by and infused with Christian ideas and viewpoints.

But you'd have us believe that you somehow puzzled out a completely unique, original "personal moral standard" that is uninfluenced by and separate from Christianity.

Okay, Bubba, you go with that.

The norms western culture follows are not unique to the bible

Taz is claiming to have developed his morality independently of any outside influence.


Your line of reasoning has nothing to do with him.

The golden rule is literally built on one's own intuition.

I dont want to be treated like a dick, so I better not be a dick to others....is pretty self evident.

And murder, stealing and the whole lot of it follows same.

No, the Golden Rule can be justified by one's own intuition, after it is already known. The sad truth of humans is that the Golden Rule is NOT the natural instinct of human nature. Most people, left to their own devices, reason much more along the lines of "I don't want people to be dicks to me, but I want to be a dick when I feel like it". Have you seriously contemplated the Internet lately, and the way people behave on it when they have its anonymity to hide behind?

Thats not my experience with most people.

Most people you know were raised by parents that worked to instill proper behavior, and in a society that tried to do the same, though less and less as time goes on and our culture declines.

 

[hadit]

Prove it.

What's special about the Bible and its codification, which is not special about any other "rendition", is that it produced Western civilization. Nothing else, even if it contains some similarities, has ever achieved anything remotely like that.

people were already doing weird things like being punished for murder, crucified for being theives even.

the bible itself proves the morals pre-existed it

Nope. Couple of reasons. First of all, I would challenge your assertion that morals "predate" the Bible. They may predate the writing and compilation of the Bible, but that doesn't mean they predate the events contained in the Bible.

Second, there's a big difference between killing people for certain behaviors and the system of morality laid out in the Bible, just as there is a difference between a mob lynching a man accused of murder and a court convicting and sentencing a man accused of murder.

So where does god drowning all those people and animals in the Flood stand? Moral act? Or immoral act?

Are you seriously asking me to judge the Almighty Creator of the Universe to human standards? That is a level of hubris I wouldn't even begin to contemplate.

So your invisible buddy gets a pass on mass murder. How very moral of you both.

When you see your neighbor kill his wife, and you grab him, shackle him in chains and confine him in your basement for a while before you kill him, you are charged with a crime, yes?

Yet when the police do it, they are fulfilling their legal responsibility.

You are not God. He has authority you do not.

 

[G.T.]

The norms western culture follows are not unique to the bible

Taz is claiming to have developed his morality independently of any outside influence.


Your line of reasoning has nothing to do with him.

The golden rule is literally built on one's own intuition.

I dont want to be treated like a dick, so I better not be a dick to others....is pretty self evident.

And murder, stealing and the whole lot of it follows same.

No, the Golden Rule can be justified by one's own intuition, after it is already known. The sad truth of humans is that the Golden Rule is NOT the natural instinct of human nature. Most people, left to their own devices, reason much more along the lines of "I don't want people to be dicks to me, but I want to be a dick when I feel like it". Have you seriously contemplated the Internet lately, and the way people behave on it when they have its anonymity to hide behind?

Thats not my experience with most people.

Most people you know were raised by parents that worked to instill proper behavior, and in a society that tried to do the same, though less and less as time goes on and our culture declines.

I dont share the same experience as yourself and that other person.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Normally I am not into playing along with people playing dumb, but this is a simple cut and paste, so...






Correct me if I'm wrong, but you've lived your entire life in a Western society. The people you've observed and made judgements about have also lived most or all of their lives in a Western society. The books you've read, movies you've watched, etc. were pretty much all created by people who lived most or all of their lives in Western societies. So basically, the moral standards permeating everything upon which you've made your judgements regarding right and wrong have been based on Western societal norms.

And, of course, Western civilization was built by and is heavily based on Christianity, and is completely permeated by and infused with Christian ideas and viewpoints.

But you'd have us believe that you somehow puzzled out a completely unique, original "personal moral standard" that is uninfluenced by and separate from Christianity.

Okay, Bubba, you go with that.

The norms western culture follows are not unique to the bible

Taz is claiming to have developed his morality independently of any outside influence.


Your line of reasoning has nothing to do with him.

The golden rule is literally built on one's own intuition.

I dont want to be treated like a dick, so I better not be a dick to others....is pretty self evident.

And murder, stealing and the whole lot of it follows same.

If that was true, spoiled children would not exist.


They were not taught to be considerate of others, and their internal intuition did not fill that lack.

My children feel horrible when they acidentally hurt someone. Likewise, Ive seen dogs get injured real time and another dogs cry, cuddle them and and lick their wounds.

Children are not fully rational humans yet, not to mention. jeez

WHY, precisely, do your children feel horrible when they accidentally hurt someone? Are you claiming that you have provided no moral guidance and teaching to your children? And are you suggesting that they did this from birth?

 

[Cecilie1200]

Taz is claiming to have developed his morality independently of any outside influence.


Your line of reasoning has nothing to do with him.

The golden rule is literally built on one's own intuition.

I dont want to be treated like a dick, so I better not be a dick to others....is pretty self evident.

And murder, stealing and the whole lot of it follows same.

No, the Golden Rule can be justified by one's own intuition, after it is already known. The sad truth of humans is that the Golden Rule is NOT the natural instinct of human nature. Most people, left to their own devices, reason much more along the lines of "I don't want people to be dicks to me, but I want to be a dick when I feel like it". Have you seriously contemplated the Internet lately, and the way people behave on it when they have its anonymity to hide behind?

Thats not my experience with most people.

Most people you know were raised by parents that worked to instill proper behavior, and in a society that tried to do the same, though less and less as time goes on and our culture declines.

I dont share the same experience as yourself and that other person.

So your point would be what? That you didn't have parents? That they didn't teach you proper behavior? You grew up in an anarchy? Which experiences are you denying that are somehow going to make your point?

 

[G.T.]

The norms western culture follows are not unique to the bible

Taz is claiming to have developed his morality independently of any outside influence.


Your line of reasoning has nothing to do with him.

The golden rule is literally built on one's own intuition.

I dont want to be treated like a dick, so I better not be a dick to others....is pretty self evident.

And murder, stealing and the whole lot of it follows same.

If that was true, spoiled children would not exist.


They were not taught to be considerate of others, and their internal intuition did not fill that lack.

My children feel horrible when they acidentally hurt someone. Likewise, Ive seen dogs get injured real time and another dogs cry, cuddle them and and lick their wounds.

Children are not fully rational humans yet, not to mention. jeez

WHY, precisely, do your children feel horrible when they accidentally hurt someone? Are you claiming that you have provided no moral guidance and teaching to your children? And are you suggesting that they did this from birth?

Because they havent always understood and spoken english, thats how. And Ive seen it in animals, as well.

 

[G.T.]

The golden rule is literally built on one's own intuition.

I dont want to be treated like a dick, so I better not be a dick to others....is pretty self evident.

And murder, stealing and the whole lot of it follows same.

No, the Golden Rule can be justified by one's own intuition, after it is already known. The sad truth of humans is that the Golden Rule is NOT the natural instinct of human nature. Most people, left to their own devices, reason much more along the lines of "I don't want people to be dicks to me, but I want to be a dick when I feel like it". Have you seriously contemplated the Internet lately, and the way people behave on it when they have its anonymity to hide behind?

Thats not my experience with most people.

Most people you know were raised by parents that worked to instill proper behavior, and in a society that tried to do the same, though less and less as time goes on and our culture declines.

I dont share the same experience as yourself and that other person.

So your point would be what? That you didn't have parents? That they didn't teach you proper behavior? You grew up in an anarchy? Which experiences are you denying that are somehow going to make your point?

I dont subscribe to your fucked up brainwashing cult that teaches that humans are innately bad and sinful.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Taz is claiming to have developed his morality independently of any outside influence.


Your line of reasoning has nothing to do with him.

The golden rule is literally built on one's own intuition.

I dont want to be treated like a dick, so I better not be a dick to others....is pretty self evident.

And murder, stealing and the whole lot of it follows same.

If that was true, spoiled children would not exist.


They were not taught to be considerate of others, and their internal intuition did not fill that lack.

My children feel horrible when they acidentally hurt someone. Likewise, Ive seen dogs get injured real time and another dogs cry, cuddle them and and lick their wounds.

Children are not fully rational humans yet, not to mention. jeez

WHY, precisely, do your children feel horrible when they accidentally hurt someone? Are you claiming that you have provided no moral guidance and teaching to your children? And are you suggesting that they did this from birth?

Because they havent always understood and spoken english, thats how. And Ive seen it in animals, as well.

Yeah, um, you're still not making your point. You're not even making sense.

 

[Cecilie1200]

No, the Golden Rule can be justified by one's own intuition, after it is already known. The sad truth of humans is that the Golden Rule is NOT the natural instinct of human nature. Most people, left to their own devices, reason much more along the lines of "I don't want people to be dicks to me, but I want to be a dick when I feel like it". Have you seriously contemplated the Internet lately, and the way people behave on it when they have its anonymity to hide behind?

Thats not my experience with most people.

Most people you know were raised by parents that worked to instill proper behavior, and in a society that tried to do the same, though less and less as time goes on and our culture declines.

I dont share the same experience as yourself and that other person.

So your point would be what? That you didn't have parents? That they didn't teach you proper behavior? You grew up in an anarchy? Which experiences are you denying that are somehow going to make your point?

I dont subscribe to your fucked up brainwashing cult that teaches that humans are innately bad and sinful.

Then you're delusional, and REALLY oblivious to the world around you.

 

[DOTR]

 

[G.T.]

The golden rule is literally built on one's own intuition.

I dont want to be treated like a dick, so I better not be a dick to others....is pretty self evident.

And murder, stealing and the whole lot of it follows same.

If that was true, spoiled children would not exist.


They were not taught to be considerate of others, and their internal intuition did not fill that lack.

My children feel horrible when they acidentally hurt someone. Likewise, Ive seen dogs get injured real time and another dogs cry, cuddle them and and lick their wounds.

Children are not fully rational humans yet, not to mention. jeez

WHY, precisely, do your children feel horrible when they accidentally hurt someone? Are you claiming that you have provided no moral guidance and teaching to your children? And are you suggesting that they did this from birth?

Because they havent always understood and spoken english, thats how. And Ive seen it in animals, as well.

Yeah, um, you're still not making your point. You're not even making sense.

Your comprehension isnt my problem. Talk to someone else, then.

 

[G.T.]

Thats not my experience with most people.

Most people you know were raised by parents that worked to instill proper behavior, and in a society that tried to do the same, though less and less as time goes on and our culture declines.

I dont share the same experience as yourself and that other person.

So your point would be what? That you didn't have parents? That they didn't teach you proper behavior? You grew up in an anarchy? Which experiences are you denying that are somehow going to make your point?

I dont subscribe to your fucked up brainwashing cult that teaches that humans are innately bad and sinful.

Then you're delusional, and REALLY oblivious to the world around you.

The world around me statistically tells me that only a small percentage of humans are criminal, and even small percent are violent criminals.

 

[Correll]

Normally I am not into playing along with people playing dumb, but this is a simple cut and paste, so...






Correct me if I'm wrong, but you've lived your entire life in a Western society. The people you've observed and made judgements about have also lived most or all of their lives in a Western society. The books you've read, movies you've watched, etc. were pretty much all created by people who lived most or all of their lives in Western societies. So basically, the moral standards permeating everything upon which you've made your judgements regarding right and wrong have been based on Western societal norms.

And, of course, Western civilization was built by and is heavily based on Christianity, and is completely permeated by and infused with Christian ideas and viewpoints.

But you'd have us believe that you somehow puzzled out a completely unique, original "personal moral standard" that is uninfluenced by and separate from Christianity.

Okay, Bubba, you go with that.

The norms western culture follows are not unique to the bible

Taz is claiming to have developed his morality independently of any outside influence.


Your line of reasoning has nothing to do with him.

The golden rule is literally built on one's own intuition.

I dont want to be treated like a dick, so I better not be a dick to others....is pretty self evident.

And murder, stealing and the whole lot of it follows same.

If that was true, spoiled children would not exist.


They were not taught to be considerate of others, and their internal intuition did not fill that lack.

My children feel horrible when they acidentally hurt someone. Likewise, Ive seen dogs get injured real time and another dogs cry, cuddle them and and lick their wounds.

Children are not fully rational humans yet, not to mention. jeez

Our morality is ingrained in us when we are children.

If you don't know right from wrong by the time you are an adult, you are likely never going to.

 

[Cecilie1200]

If that was true, spoiled children would not exist.


They were not taught to be considerate of others, and their internal intuition did not fill that lack.

My children feel horrible when they acidentally hurt someone. Likewise, Ive seen dogs get injured real time and another dogs cry, cuddle them and and lick their wounds.

Children are not fully rational humans yet, not to mention. jeez

WHY, precisely, do your children feel horrible when they accidentally hurt someone? Are you claiming that you have provided no moral guidance and teaching to your children? And are you suggesting that they did this from birth?

Because they havent always understood and spoken english, thats how. And Ive seen it in animals, as well.

Yeah, um, you're still not making your point. You're not even making sense.

Your comprehension isnt my problem. Talk to someone else, then.

Nice try. You could save everyone a lot of time and effort if you'd just admit that you lost, instead of demonstrating it.

 

[G.T.]

My children feel horrible when they acidentally hurt someone. Likewise, Ive seen dogs get injured real time and another dogs cry, cuddle them and and lick their wounds.

Children are not fully rational humans yet, not to mention. jeez

WHY, precisely, do your children feel horrible when they accidentally hurt someone? Are you claiming that you have provided no moral guidance and teaching to your children? And are you suggesting that they did this from birth?

Because they havent always understood and spoken english, thats how. And Ive seen it in animals, as well.

Yeah, um, you're still not making your point. You're not even making sense.

Your comprehension isnt my problem. Talk to someone else, then.

Nice try. You could save everyone a lot of time and effort if you'd just admit that you lost, instead of demonstrating it.

Youre a bitter human

 

[Cecilie1200]

Most people you know were raised by parents that worked to instill proper behavior, and in a society that tried to do the same, though less and less as time goes on and our culture declines.

I dont share the same experience as yourself and that other person.

So your point would be what? That you didn't have parents? That they didn't teach you proper behavior? You grew up in an anarchy? Which experiences are you denying that are somehow going to make your point?

I dont subscribe to your fucked up brainwashing cult that teaches that humans are innately bad and sinful.

Then you're delusional, and REALLY oblivious to the world around you.

The world around me statistically tells me that only a small percentage of humans are criminal, and even small percent are violent criminals.

Who said anything about criminals? I'm talking about everyday people. If you think most people aren't dicks a good portion of every day, you're insane. And that's the ones who DID learn correct, moral behavior growing up, and would NEVER consider committing a crime.

 

[Cecilie1200]

WHY, precisely, do your children feel horrible when they accidentally hurt someone? Are you claiming that you have provided no moral guidance and teaching to your children? And are you suggesting that they did this from birth?

Because they havent always understood and spoken english, thats how. And Ive seen it in animals, as well.

Yeah, um, you're still not making your point. You're not even making sense.

Your comprehension isnt my problem. Talk to someone else, then.

Nice try. You could save everyone a lot of time and effort if you'd just admit that you lost, instead of demonstrating it.

Youre a bitter human

Not at all. I'm a very happy human, in fact, because I can embrace reality and work within its framework. Bitterness comes from insisting the world is something that it isn't, and being frustrated when it doesn't cooperate.

 

[Taz]

people were already doing weird things like being punished for murder, crucified for being theives even.

the bible itself proves the morals pre-existed it

Nope. Couple of reasons. First of all, I would challenge your assertion that morals "predate" the Bible. They may predate the writing and compilation of the Bible, but that doesn't mean they predate the events contained in the Bible.

Second, there's a big difference between killing people for certain behaviors and the system of morality laid out in the Bible, just as there is a difference between a mob lynching a man accused of murder and a court convicting and sentencing a man accused of murder.

So where does god drowning all those people and animals in the Flood stand? Moral act? Or immoral act?

Are you seriously asking me to judge the Almighty Creator of the Universe to human standards? That is a level of hubris I wouldn't even begin to contemplate.

So your invisible buddy gets a pass on mass murder. How very moral of you both.

Do you also spend a lot of time raging at Mother Nature for being "immoral"?

So god has no control over himself?

 

[Taz]

I was afraid of being sent to hell where the devil will burn me for all eternity. Just like you.

I know why you are afraid to tell the truth.


I know what the answer is.


And you know that it makes a mockery of your pretense of being self contained.

Like GT said, the morals found in the bible weren't even original. Too funny.

GT's response is not yours.


HIs argument is a whole other path of discussion.

Ya, but still funny because you two were trying to say that Western civilization's morals were taken from the bible, which didn't invent those morals, so basically, your whole argument is an EPIC FAIL!

A source doesn't have to be the original or even the sole source to still be a source.


I just picked up some groceries from the store. There are other stores, and the food was not grown AT the store, but the store was still my source of groceries.

You are really flailing around here.

So you’re comparing the Bible to a grocery store, where you go in a pick and choose stuff that you can get anywhere. Ok, if you say so.

 

[Taz]

people were already doing weird things like being punished for murder, crucified for being theives even.

the bible itself proves the morals pre-existed it

Nope. Couple of reasons. First of all, I would challenge your assertion that morals "predate" the Bible. They may predate the writing and compilation of the Bible, but that doesn't mean they predate the events contained in the Bible.

Second, there's a big difference between killing people for certain behaviors and the system of morality laid out in the Bible, just as there is a difference between a mob lynching a man accused of murder and a court convicting and sentencing a man accused of murder.

So where does god drowning all those people and animals in the Flood stand? Moral act? Or immoral act?

Are you seriously asking me to judge the Almighty Creator of the Universe to human standards? That is a level of hubris I wouldn't even begin to contemplate.

So your invisible buddy gets a pass on mass murder. How very moral of you both.

When you see your neighbor kill his wife, and you grab him, shackle him in chains and confine him in your basement for a while before you kill him, you are charged with a crime, yes?

Yet when the police do it, they are fulfilling their legal responsibility.

You are not God. He has authority you do not.

The police don’t have the authority to do a mass killing. EPIC FAIL.