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The golden rule is literally built on one's own intuition.The norms western culture follows are not unique to the bibleSo what was her point? Sum it up for me.It is clear from her posts what her point was, and you are just dancing and dodging to avoid it.
That is the actions of someone who knows that they have lost the argument.
Normally I am not into playing along with people playing dumb, but this is a simple cut and paste, so...
Correct me if I'm wrong, but you've lived your entire life in a Western society. The people you've observed and made judgements about have also lived most or all of their lives in a Western society. The books you've read, movies you've watched, etc. were pretty much all created by people who lived most or all of their lives in Western societies. So basically, the moral standards permeating everything upon which you've made your judgements regarding right and wrong have been based on Western societal norms.
And, of course, Western civilization was built by and is heavily based on Christianity, and is completely permeated by and infused with Christian ideas and viewpoints.
But you'd have us believe that you somehow puzzled out a completely unique, original "personal moral standard" that is uninfluenced by and separate from Christianity.
Okay, Bubba, you go with that.
Taz is claiming to have developed his morality independently of any outside influence.
Your line of reasoning has nothing to do with him.
I dont want to be treated like a dick, so I better not be a dick to others....is pretty self evident.
And murder, stealing and the whole lot of it follows same.
So where does god drowning all those people and animals in the Flood stand? Moral act? Or immoral act?people were already doing weird things like being punished for murder, crucified for being theives even.She doesnt have a point. The "morals" written in the Bible that are used in Western Culture actually preceded the Bible and were adhered to by humans before it. Theres nothing special about the Bible's rendition of what was previously codified.Says the man still refusing to address her point.
Prove it.
What's special about the Bible and its codification, which is not special about any other "rendition", is that it produced Western civilization. Nothing else, even if it contains some similarities, has ever achieved anything remotely like that.
the bible itself proves the morals pre-existed it
Nope. Couple of reasons. First of all, I would challenge your assertion that morals "predate" the Bible. They may predate the writing and compilation of the Bible, but that doesn't mean they predate the events contained in the Bible.
Second, there's a big difference between killing people for certain behaviors and the system of morality laid out in the Bible, just as there is a difference between a mob lynching a man accused of murder and a court convicting and sentencing a man accused of murder.
Thats not my experience with most people.The golden rule is literally built on one's own intuition.The norms western culture follows are not unique to the bibleSo what was her point? Sum it up for me.
Normally I am not into playing along with people playing dumb, but this is a simple cut and paste, so...
Correct me if I'm wrong, but you've lived your entire life in a Western society. The people you've observed and made judgements about have also lived most or all of their lives in a Western society. The books you've read, movies you've watched, etc. were pretty much all created by people who lived most or all of their lives in Western societies. So basically, the moral standards permeating everything upon which you've made your judgements regarding right and wrong have been based on Western societal norms.
And, of course, Western civilization was built by and is heavily based on Christianity, and is completely permeated by and infused with Christian ideas and viewpoints.
But you'd have us believe that you somehow puzzled out a completely unique, original "personal moral standard" that is uninfluenced by and separate from Christianity.
Okay, Bubba, you go with that.
Taz is claiming to have developed his morality independently of any outside influence.
Your line of reasoning has nothing to do with him.
I dont want to be treated like a dick, so I better not be a dick to others....is pretty self evident.
And murder, stealing and the whole lot of it follows same.
No, the Golden Rule can be justified by one's own intuition, after it is already known. The sad truth of humans is that the Golden Rule is NOT the natural instinct of human nature. Most people, left to their own devices, reason much more along the lines of "I don't want people to be dicks to me, but I want to be a dick when I feel like it". Have you seriously contemplated the Internet lately, and the way people behave on it when they have its anonymity to hide behind?
you just defeated your own argumentpeople were already doing weird things like being punished for murder, crucified for being theives even.She doesnt have a point. The "morals" written in the Bible that are used in Western Culture actually preceded the Bible and were adhered to by humans before it. Theres nothing special about the Bible's rendition of what was previously codified.Says the man still refusing to address her point.
Prove it.
What's special about the Bible and its codification, which is not special about any other "rendition", is that it produced Western civilization. Nothing else, even if it contains some similarities, has ever achieved anything remotely like that.
the bible itself proves the morals pre-existed it
Nope. Couple of reasons. First of all, I would challenge your assertion that morals "predate" the Bible. They may predate the writing and compilation of the Bible, but that doesn't mean they predate the events contained in the Bible.
Second, there's a big difference between killing people for certain behaviors and the system of morality laid out in the Bible, just as there is a difference between a mob lynching a man accused of murder and a court convicting and sentencing a man accused of murder.
morals are behaviors
killing people for stealing, murder...is literally a codified moral code and it predates jesus...
fuck, even as-evidenced by the STORY of jesus
read a book, shit
so you are anti death penalty and imprisonmentyou just defeated your own argumentpeople were already doing weird things like being punished for murder, crucified for being theives even.She doesnt have a point. The "morals" written in the Bible that are used in Western Culture actually preceded the Bible and were adhered to by humans before it. Theres nothing special about the Bible's rendition of what was previously codified.
Prove it.
What's special about the Bible and its codification, which is not special about any other "rendition", is that it produced Western civilization. Nothing else, even if it contains some similarities, has ever achieved anything remotely like that.
the bible itself proves the morals pre-existed it
Nope. Couple of reasons. First of all, I would challenge your assertion that morals "predate" the Bible. They may predate the writing and compilation of the Bible, but that doesn't mean they predate the events contained in the Bible.
Second, there's a big difference between killing people for certain behaviors and the system of morality laid out in the Bible, just as there is a difference between a mob lynching a man accused of murder and a court convicting and sentencing a man accused of murder.
morals are behaviors
killing people for stealing, murder...is literally a codified moral code and it predates jesus...
fuck, even as-evidenced by the STORY of jesus
read a book, shit
Nope. Killing people for suspected behaviors you personally don't like is not the least bit codified, and not particularly moral. Why do you think lynch mobs are illegal? If you truly think vengeance and mob "justice" are moral, you need to rethink your concept of morality STAT. And I have no desire whatsoever to live in your neighborhood, either. First time my dog cops a squat on your lawn, you're likely to blow me and him away with a shotgun and try to call it a "codified moral code".
History says quite different. Western Society was drawn from the writings of the enlightenment period. You can look into these things... www.google.com is a good start.The norms western culture follows are not unique to the bibleSo what was her point? Sum it up for me.It is clear from her posts what her point was, and you are just dancing and dodging to avoid it.
That is the actions of someone who knows that they have lost the argument.
Normally I am not into playing along with people playing dumb, but this is a simple cut and paste, so...
Correct me if I'm wrong, but you've lived your entire life in a Western society. The people you've observed and made judgements about have also lived most or all of their lives in a Western society. The books you've read, movies you've watched, etc. were pretty much all created by people who lived most or all of their lives in Western societies. So basically, the moral standards permeating everything upon which you've made your judgements regarding right and wrong have been based on Western societal norms.
And, of course, Western civilization was built by and is heavily based on Christianity, and is completely permeated by and infused with Christian ideas and viewpoints.
But you'd have us believe that you somehow puzzled out a completely unique, original "personal moral standard" that is uninfluenced by and separate from Christianity.
Okay, Bubba, you go with that.
Yes, they actually are, both because other societies didn't and don't approach morality in the same way, and because Western civilization didn't draw its beliefs on morality from those societies, but directly from Christianity. No matter how much you try to weasel around it, Western civilization was built by people of Christian beliefs, based on those Christian beliefs, and it continues to take its values from those beliefs, whether it knows it or not.
Id love to know which biblical moral was unique to the bible, barring the literal worship of its god
Thats literally some seriously stupid shit.History says quite different. Western Society was drawn from the writings of the enlightenment period. You can look into these things... www.google.com is a good start.The norms western culture follows are not unique to the bibleSo what was her point? Sum it up for me.
Normally I am not into playing along with people playing dumb, but this is a simple cut and paste, so...
Correct me if I'm wrong, but you've lived your entire life in a Western society. The people you've observed and made judgements about have also lived most or all of their lives in a Western society. The books you've read, movies you've watched, etc. were pretty much all created by people who lived most or all of their lives in Western societies. So basically, the moral standards permeating everything upon which you've made your judgements regarding right and wrong have been based on Western societal norms.
And, of course, Western civilization was built by and is heavily based on Christianity, and is completely permeated by and infused with Christian ideas and viewpoints.
But you'd have us believe that you somehow puzzled out a completely unique, original "personal moral standard" that is uninfluenced by and separate from Christianity.
Okay, Bubba, you go with that.
Yes, they actually are, both because other societies didn't and don't approach morality in the same way, and because Western civilization didn't draw its beliefs on morality from those societies, but directly from Christianity. No matter how much you try to weasel around it, Western civilization was built by people of Christian beliefs, based on those Christian beliefs, and it continues to take its values from those beliefs, whether it knows it or not.
Id love to know which biblical moral was unique to the bible, barring the literal worship of its god
Sorry, but history says nothing of the sort. Leftists ignorant of history try to say it, but the Enlightenment built on the framework that was already there.
It would actually be the entire structure of morality, and the reasonings behind it, that would be unique to the Bible.
Thats not my experience with most people.The golden rule is literally built on one's own intuition.The norms western culture follows are not unique to the bibleNormally I am not into playing along with people playing dumb, but this is a simple cut and paste, so...
Correct me if I'm wrong, but you've lived your entire life in a Western society. The people you've observed and made judgements about have also lived most or all of their lives in a Western society. The books you've read, movies you've watched, etc. were pretty much all created by people who lived most or all of their lives in Western societies. So basically, the moral standards permeating everything upon which you've made your judgements regarding right and wrong have been based on Western societal norms.
And, of course, Western civilization was built by and is heavily based on Christianity, and is completely permeated by and infused with Christian ideas and viewpoints.
But you'd have us believe that you somehow puzzled out a completely unique, original "personal moral standard" that is uninfluenced by and separate from Christianity.
Okay, Bubba, you go with that.
Taz is claiming to have developed his morality independently of any outside influence.
Your line of reasoning has nothing to do with him.
I dont want to be treated like a dick, so I better not be a dick to others....is pretty self evident.
And murder, stealing and the whole lot of it follows same.
No, the Golden Rule can be justified by one's own intuition, after it is already known. The sad truth of humans is that the Golden Rule is NOT the natural instinct of human nature. Most people, left to their own devices, reason much more along the lines of "I don't want people to be dicks to me, but I want to be a dick when I feel like it". Have you seriously contemplated the Internet lately, and the way people behave on it when they have its anonymity to hide behind?
Hmm, no I generally dont lie for no purpose. Have a good day.Thats not my experience with most people.The golden rule is literally built on one's own intuition.The norms western culture follows are not unique to the bible
Taz is claiming to have developed his morality independently of any outside influence.
Your line of reasoning has nothing to do with him.
I dont want to be treated like a dick, so I better not be a dick to others....is pretty self evident.
And murder, stealing and the whole lot of it follows same.
No, the Golden Rule can be justified by one's own intuition, after it is already known. The sad truth of humans is that the Golden Rule is NOT the natural instinct of human nature. Most people, left to their own devices, reason much more along the lines of "I don't want people to be dicks to me, but I want to be a dick when I feel like it". Have you seriously contemplated the Internet lately, and the way people behave on it when they have its anonymity to hide behind?
You're full of shit. You may choose to tell yourself otherwise, but there is no way in Hell that you genuinely believe human beings are ruled by altruistic, compassionate instincts independent of any instructions to that effect. Human beings are, basically, a bunch of assholes attempting to behave less like assholes because they believe they should, for whatever reason. Good grief, visit an elementary school playground sometime.
so you are anti death penalty and imprisonmentyou just defeated your own argumentpeople were already doing weird things like being punished for murder, crucified for being theives even.Prove it.
What's special about the Bible and its codification, which is not special about any other "rendition", is that it produced Western civilization. Nothing else, even if it contains some similarities, has ever achieved anything remotely like that.
the bible itself proves the morals pre-existed it
Nope. Couple of reasons. First of all, I would challenge your assertion that morals "predate" the Bible. They may predate the writing and compilation of the Bible, but that doesn't mean they predate the events contained in the Bible.
Second, there's a big difference between killing people for certain behaviors and the system of morality laid out in the Bible, just as there is a difference between a mob lynching a man accused of murder and a court convicting and sentencing a man accused of murder.
morals are behaviors
killing people for stealing, murder...is literally a codified moral code and it predates jesus...
fuck, even as-evidenced by the STORY of jesus
read a book, shit
Nope. Killing people for suspected behaviors you personally don't like is not the least bit codified, and not particularly moral. Why do you think lynch mobs are illegal? If you truly think vengeance and mob "justice" are moral, you need to rethink your concept of morality STAT. And I have no desire whatsoever to live in your neighborhood, either. First time my dog cops a squat on your lawn, you're likely to blow me and him away with a shotgun and try to call it a "codified moral code".
well, law and punishment in general
koookoo, kookooo
Thats literally some seriously stupid shit.History says quite different. Western Society was drawn from the writings of the enlightenment period. You can look into these things... www.google.com is a good start.The norms western culture follows are not unique to the bibleNormally I am not into playing along with people playing dumb, but this is a simple cut and paste, so...
Correct me if I'm wrong, but you've lived your entire life in a Western society. The people you've observed and made judgements about have also lived most or all of their lives in a Western society. The books you've read, movies you've watched, etc. were pretty much all created by people who lived most or all of their lives in Western societies. So basically, the moral standards permeating everything upon which you've made your judgements regarding right and wrong have been based on Western societal norms.
And, of course, Western civilization was built by and is heavily based on Christianity, and is completely permeated by and infused with Christian ideas and viewpoints.
But you'd have us believe that you somehow puzzled out a completely unique, original "personal moral standard" that is uninfluenced by and separate from Christianity.
Okay, Bubba, you go with that.
Yes, they actually are, both because other societies didn't and don't approach morality in the same way, and because Western civilization didn't draw its beliefs on morality from those societies, but directly from Christianity. No matter how much you try to weasel around it, Western civilization was built by people of Christian beliefs, based on those Christian beliefs, and it continues to take its values from those beliefs, whether it knows it or not.
Id love to know which biblical moral was unique to the bible, barring the literal worship of its god
Sorry, but history says nothing of the sort. Leftists ignorant of history try to say it, but the Enlightenment built on the framework that was already there.
It would actually be the entire structure of morality, and the reasonings behind it, that would be unique to the Bible.
Laws predated the bible. Sorry your ego prevents your studies
Hmm, no I generally dont lie for no purpose. Have a good day.Thats not my experience with most people.The golden rule is literally built on one's own intuition.Taz is claiming to have developed his morality independently of any outside influence.
Your line of reasoning has nothing to do with him.
I dont want to be treated like a dick, so I better not be a dick to others....is pretty self evident.
And murder, stealing and the whole lot of it follows same.
No, the Golden Rule can be justified by one's own intuition, after it is already known. The sad truth of humans is that the Golden Rule is NOT the natural instinct of human nature. Most people, left to their own devices, reason much more along the lines of "I don't want people to be dicks to me, but I want to be a dick when I feel like it". Have you seriously contemplated the Internet lately, and the way people behave on it when they have its anonymity to hide behind?
You're full of shit. You may choose to tell yourself otherwise, but there is no way in Hell that you genuinely believe human beings are ruled by altruistic, compassionate instincts independent of any instructions to that effect. Human beings are, basically, a bunch of assholes attempting to behave less like assholes because they believe they should, for whatever reason. Good grief, visit an elementary school playground sometime.
So we are clear, you know nothing of ancient greece, ancient mayans, sumerians, etc. whom all predate the bible and had laws you can find online with your own two?Thats literally some seriously stupid shit.History says quite different. Western Society was drawn from the writings of the enlightenment period. You can look into these things... www.google.com is a good start.The norms western culture follows are not unique to the bible
Yes, they actually are, both because other societies didn't and don't approach morality in the same way, and because Western civilization didn't draw its beliefs on morality from those societies, but directly from Christianity. No matter how much you try to weasel around it, Western civilization was built by people of Christian beliefs, based on those Christian beliefs, and it continues to take its values from those beliefs, whether it knows it or not.
Id love to know which biblical moral was unique to the bible, barring the literal worship of its god
Sorry, but history says nothing of the sort. Leftists ignorant of history try to say it, but the Enlightenment built on the framework that was already there.
It would actually be the entire structure of morality, and the reasonings behind it, that would be unique to the Bible.
Laws predated the bible. Sorry your ego prevents your studies
Prove it. Show me a systematic, codified set of moral laws that predated the Bible, preferably with proof that it DID predate the Bible.
Cool storyHmm, no I generally dont lie for no purpose. Have a good day.Thats not my experience with most people.The golden rule is literally built on one's own intuition.
I dont want to be treated like a dick, so I better not be a dick to others....is pretty self evident.
And murder, stealing and the whole lot of it follows same.
No, the Golden Rule can be justified by one's own intuition, after it is already known. The sad truth of humans is that the Golden Rule is NOT the natural instinct of human nature. Most people, left to their own devices, reason much more along the lines of "I don't want people to be dicks to me, but I want to be a dick when I feel like it". Have you seriously contemplated the Internet lately, and the way people behave on it when they have its anonymity to hide behind?
You're full of shit. You may choose to tell yourself otherwise, but there is no way in Hell that you genuinely believe human beings are ruled by altruistic, compassionate instincts independent of any instructions to that effect. Human beings are, basically, a bunch of assholes attempting to behave less like assholes because they believe they should, for whatever reason. Good grief, visit an elementary school playground sometime.
I suspect you lie to yourself a lot, for the purpose of trying to feel better about yourself.
But by all means, feel free to retreat under your thin pretense of outraged dignity.
So we are clear, you know nothing of ancient greece, ancient mayans, sumerians, etc. whom all predate the bible and had laws you can find online with your own two?Thats literally some seriously stupid shit.History says quite different. Western Society was drawn from the writings of the enlightenment period. You can look into these things... www.google.com is a good start.Yes, they actually are, both because other societies didn't and don't approach morality in the same way, and because Western civilization didn't draw its beliefs on morality from those societies, but directly from Christianity. No matter how much you try to weasel around it, Western civilization was built by people of Christian beliefs, based on those Christian beliefs, and it continues to take its values from those beliefs, whether it knows it or not.
Id love to know which biblical moral was unique to the bible, barring the literal worship of its god
Sorry, but history says nothing of the sort. Leftists ignorant of history try to say it, but the Enlightenment built on the framework that was already there.
It would actually be the entire structure of morality, and the reasonings behind it, that would be unique to the Bible.
Laws predated the bible. Sorry your ego prevents your studies
Prove it. Show me a systematic, codified set of moral laws that predated the Bible, preferably with proof that it DID predate the Bible.
I think we are done here, you have a preconceived bias which prevents knowledge. Not worth my time. No offense.
So your invisible buddy gets a pass on mass murder. How very moral of you both.So where does god drowning all those people and animals in the Flood stand? Moral act? Or immoral act?people were already doing weird things like being punished for murder, crucified for being theives even.She doesnt have a point. The "morals" written in the Bible that are used in Western Culture actually preceded the Bible and were adhered to by humans before it. Theres nothing special about the Bible's rendition of what was previously codified.
Prove it.
What's special about the Bible and its codification, which is not special about any other "rendition", is that it produced Western civilization. Nothing else, even if it contains some similarities, has ever achieved anything remotely like that.
the bible itself proves the morals pre-existed it
Nope. Couple of reasons. First of all, I would challenge your assertion that morals "predate" the Bible. They may predate the writing and compilation of the Bible, but that doesn't mean they predate the events contained in the Bible.
Second, there's a big difference between killing people for certain behaviors and the system of morality laid out in the Bible, just as there is a difference between a mob lynching a man accused of murder and a court convicting and sentencing a man accused of murder.
Are you seriously asking me to judge the Almighty Creator of the Universe to human standards? That is a level of hubris I wouldn't even begin to contemplate.
So your invisible buddy gets a pass on mass murder. How very moral of you both.So where does god drowning all those people and animals in the Flood stand? Moral act? Or immoral act?people were already doing weird things like being punished for murder, crucified for being theives even.Prove it.
What's special about the Bible and its codification, which is not special about any other "rendition", is that it produced Western civilization. Nothing else, even if it contains some similarities, has ever achieved anything remotely like that.
the bible itself proves the morals pre-existed it
Nope. Couple of reasons. First of all, I would challenge your assertion that morals "predate" the Bible. They may predate the writing and compilation of the Bible, but that doesn't mean they predate the events contained in the Bible.
Second, there's a big difference between killing people for certain behaviors and the system of morality laid out in the Bible, just as there is a difference between a mob lynching a man accused of murder and a court convicting and sentencing a man accused of murder.
Are you seriously asking me to judge the Almighty Creator of the Universe to human standards? That is a level of hubris I wouldn't even begin to contemplate.
Ya, but still funny because you two were trying to say that Western civilization's morals were taken from the bible, which didn't invent those morals, so basically, your whole argument is an EPIC FAIL!Like GT said, the morals found in the bible weren't even original. Too funny.I was afraid of being sent to hell where the devil will burn me for all eternity. Just like you.That is a lie.
Who were you worried about being punished BY?
I know why you are afraid to tell the truth.
I know what the answer is.
And you know that it makes a mockery of your pretense of being self contained.
GT's response is not yours.
HIs argument is a whole other path of discussion.
The golden rule is literally built on one's own intuition.The norms western culture follows are not unique to the bibleSo what was her point? Sum it up for me.It is clear from her posts what her point was, and you are just dancing and dodging to avoid it.
That is the actions of someone who knows that they have lost the argument.
Normally I am not into playing along with people playing dumb, but this is a simple cut and paste, so...
Correct me if I'm wrong, but you've lived your entire life in a Western society. The people you've observed and made judgements about have also lived most or all of their lives in a Western society. The books you've read, movies you've watched, etc. were pretty much all created by people who lived most or all of their lives in Western societies. So basically, the moral standards permeating everything upon which you've made your judgements regarding right and wrong have been based on Western societal norms.
And, of course, Western civilization was built by and is heavily based on Christianity, and is completely permeated by and infused with Christian ideas and viewpoints.
But you'd have us believe that you somehow puzzled out a completely unique, original "personal moral standard" that is uninfluenced by and separate from Christianity.
Okay, Bubba, you go with that.
Taz is claiming to have developed his morality independently of any outside influence.
Your line of reasoning has nothing to do with him.
I dont want to be treated like a dick, so I better not be a dick to others....is pretty self evident.
And murder, stealing and the whole lot of it follows same.
My children feel horrible when they acidentally hurt someone. Likewise, Ive seen dogs get injured real time and another dogs cry, cuddle them and and lick their wounds.The golden rule is literally built on one's own intuition.The norms western culture follows are not unique to the bibleSo what was her point? Sum it up for me.
Normally I am not into playing along with people playing dumb, but this is a simple cut and paste, so...
Correct me if I'm wrong, but you've lived your entire life in a Western society. The people you've observed and made judgements about have also lived most or all of their lives in a Western society. The books you've read, movies you've watched, etc. were pretty much all created by people who lived most or all of their lives in Western societies. So basically, the moral standards permeating everything upon which you've made your judgements regarding right and wrong have been based on Western societal norms.
And, of course, Western civilization was built by and is heavily based on Christianity, and is completely permeated by and infused with Christian ideas and viewpoints.
But you'd have us believe that you somehow puzzled out a completely unique, original "personal moral standard" that is uninfluenced by and separate from Christianity.
Okay, Bubba, you go with that.
Taz is claiming to have developed his morality independently of any outside influence.
Your line of reasoning has nothing to do with him.
I dont want to be treated like a dick, so I better not be a dick to others....is pretty self evident.
And murder, stealing and the whole lot of it follows same.
If that was true, spoiled children would not exist.
They were not taught to be considerate of others, and their internal intuition did not fill that lack.
