A few questions for the fundies

[Cecilie1200]

Yeah, they do. You're just too much of a conceited, reductive moron to realize and admit it.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but you've lived your entire life in a Western society. The people you've observed and made judgements about have also lived most or all of their lives in a Western society. The books you've read, movies you've watched, etc. were pretty much all created by people who lived most or all of their lives in Western societies. So basically, the moral standards permeating everything upon which you've made your judgements regarding right and wrong have been based on Western societal norms.

And, of course, Western civilization was built by and is heavily based on Christianity, and is completely permeated by and infused with Christian ideas and viewpoints.

But you'd have us believe that you somehow puzzled out a completely unique, original "personal moral standard" that is uninfluenced by and separate from Christianity.

Okay, Bubba, you go with that.

So that's what made me the "dumbass" that you called me?

Taz, her post was brilliant and if you can't seriously and honestly refute it, this is where you should admit that you are wrong and thank her for teaching you.

Refute it, or admit defeat.

YOur dodge made you look BAD.

You bible folks are just desperate to have everyone agree with you because deep down, you know that's it's a hateful book full of orders from god to kill, if he's not doing to killing himself. And you think that the bible taught everyone right from wrong? Maybe that's why all the prisons are full up, the priests are being exposed as pedophiles and wars are raging throughout the world? It's ridiculous, you need to get a grip on reality.

Wrong. We "Bible folks" don't give much of a damn if people agree with us or not. We'll tell you about our beliefs, because we're instructed to do so, but what you do with it is between you and God, and not our problem.

You leftist atheists, on the other hand, really are desperate to FORCE everyone to agree with you, or to at least pretend they do, because deep down, you're incapable of having any self-esteem of your own, and you have to try to manufacture it.

There is no garbage you're going to spew about the Bible that is going to make you correct, or make anyone think you're correct, just FYI. All you're accomplishing is to demonstrate how very little you've ever bothered to learn about the things you hate. Christianity is not responsible for full prisons, pedophiles, or any of the wars raging around the world. In fact, atheism racked up more of a death toll in the 20th century alone than in all the other manmade events in human history.

I don't care if you agree with me, we're just talking from different points of view and I find that interesting. You, on the other hand, have to get all aggressive and nasty and don't seem to be able to discuss things like a calm, mature person. But THAT'S not the bible's fault now, is it?

No, my impatience with and hostility to foolishness is strictly a product of my own personality. If you knew anything about the Bible, you would know that I'm instructed to love and pray for other people, no matter how much dumbassery they spew, and I have to actually work to give a rat's ass if they live or die. It's something for which God is endlessly disappointed in me. Again, that's between me and Him, and you are neither of us.

If you don't want people to be nasty to you, may I cordially suggest that you not open conversations by hurling nasty, ignorant insults at their beliefs? Or, if you absolutely MUST spew invective, that you strap on a pair and weather the resulting opposition like a man, instead of a whining child?

 

[Cecilie1200]

Fear of consequences is not learning something is wrong.

Or are you stating that the only thing keeping your from stealing is fear of being caught and punished?

When you're little, yes, getting in trouble is the biggest worry.

Who were you worried about being punished BY?

God.

Now cut it out.

That is a lie.


Who were you worried about being punished BY?

I was afraid of being sent to hell where the devil will burn me for all eternity. Just like you.

More ignorant misunderstanding of the Bible. That's like your major talent in life, apparently.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Taz, her post was brilliant and if you can't seriously and honestly refute it, this is where you should admit that you are wrong and thank her for teaching you.

Refute it, or admit defeat.

YOur dodge made you look BAD.

You bible folks are just desperate to have everyone agree with you because deep down, you know that's it's a hateful book full of orders from god to kill, if he's not doing to killing himself. And you think that the bible taught everyone right from wrong? Maybe that's why all the prisons are full up, the priests are being exposed as pedophiles and wars are raging throughout the world? It's ridiculous, you need to get a grip on reality.

Your spurious attempts at distracting from the fact that you cannot refute what she said, is noted.

But I partially agreed with you and her, that rape, greed, murder... in today's society can be traced back to the bible. Isn't that what you wanted?

It is clear from her posts what her point was, and you are just dancing and dodging to avoid it.


That is the actions of someone who knows that they have lost the argument.

So what was her point? Sum it up for me.

Or you could just learn to comprehend English, since I've stated it very clearly several times.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Who were you worried about being punished BY?

God.

Now cut it out.

That is a lie.


Who were you worried about being punished BY?

I was afraid of being sent to hell where the devil will burn me for all eternity. Just like you.

I know why you are afraid to tell the truth.


I know what the answer is.


And you know that it makes a mockery of your pretense of being self contained.

Like GT said, the morals found in the bible weren't even original. Too funny.

Christianity is original, and it's also unique. The fact that other belief systems have contained certain similiarities - by no means all - simply constitutes proof that Christianity is correct in those beliefs, as evidenced by the fact that other people have come to the same conclusions.

 

[Cecilie1200]

If I had to guess, I'd say being dropped on your head as a baby is what made you the dumbass you are.

But yes, claiming to have invented a personal moral code all by yourself, when you're really only cribbing notes from Christianity at second- and third-hand, would definitely be evidence of the aforementioned dumbassery.

Is that what Jesus taught? To insult people that don't agree with you? I must have missed that part of the bible. What chapter is that?

Says the man still refusing to address her point.

She doesnt have a point. The "morals" written in the Bible that are used in Western Culture actually preceded the Bible and were adhered to by humans before it. Theres nothing special about the Bible's rendition of what was previously codified.

Prove it.

What's special about the Bible and its codification, which is not special about any other "rendition", is that it produced Western civilization. Nothing else, even if it contains some similarities, has ever achieved anything remotely like that.

How about you proving how Noah got kangaroos from Australia and back? I can't get a straight answer at this board.

I wasn't aware that I had ever made that statement, so why, precisely, am I expected to take responsibility for it?

 

[Correll]

Taz, her post was brilliant and if you can't seriously and honestly refute it, this is where you should admit that you are wrong and thank her for teaching you.

Refute it, or admit defeat.

YOur dodge made you look BAD.

You bible folks are just desperate to have everyone agree with you because deep down, you know that's it's a hateful book full of orders from god to kill, if he's not doing to killing himself. And you think that the bible taught everyone right from wrong? Maybe that's why all the prisons are full up, the priests are being exposed as pedophiles and wars are raging throughout the world? It's ridiculous, you need to get a grip on reality.

Your spurious attempts at distracting from the fact that you cannot refute what she said, is noted.

But I partially agreed with you and her, that rape, greed, murder... in today's society can be traced back to the bible. Isn't that what you wanted?

It is clear from her posts what her point was, and you are just dancing and dodging to avoid it.


That is the actions of someone who knows that they have lost the argument.

So what was her point? Sum it up for me.

Normally I am not into playing along with people playing dumb, but this is a simple cut and paste, so...






Correct me if I'm wrong, but you've lived your entire life in a Western society. The people you've observed and made judgements about have also lived most or all of their lives in a Western society. The books you've read, movies you've watched, etc. were pretty much all created by people who lived most or all of their lives in Western societies. So basically, the moral standards permeating everything upon which you've made your judgements regarding right and wrong have been based on Western societal norms.

And, of course, Western civilization was built by and is heavily based on Christianity, and is completely permeated by and infused with Christian ideas and viewpoints.

But you'd have us believe that you somehow puzzled out a completely unique, original "personal moral standard" that is uninfluenced by and separate from Christianity.

Okay, Bubba, you go with that.

 

[G.T.]

So that's what made me the "dumbass" that you called me?

If I had to guess, I'd say being dropped on your head as a baby is what made you the dumbass you are.

But yes, claiming to have invented a personal moral code all by yourself, when you're really only cribbing notes from Christianity at second- and third-hand, would definitely be evidence of the aforementioned dumbassery.

Is that what Jesus taught? To insult people that don't agree with you? I must have missed that part of the bible. What chapter is that?

Says the man still refusing to address her point.

She doesnt have a point. The "morals" written in the Bible that are used in Western Culture actually preceded the Bible and were adhered to by humans before it. Theres nothing special about the Bible's rendition of what was previously codified.

Prove it.

What's special about the Bible and its codification, which is not special about any other "rendition", is that it produced Western civilization. Nothing else, even if it contains some similarities, has ever achieved anything remotely like that.

people were already doing weird things like being punished for murder, crucified for being theives even.

the bible itself proves the morals pre-existed it

 

[G.T.]

You bible folks are just desperate to have everyone agree with you because deep down, you know that's it's a hateful book full of orders from god to kill, if he's not doing to killing himself. And you think that the bible taught everyone right from wrong? Maybe that's why all the prisons are full up, the priests are being exposed as pedophiles and wars are raging throughout the world? It's ridiculous, you need to get a grip on reality.

Your spurious attempts at distracting from the fact that you cannot refute what she said, is noted.

But I partially agreed with you and her, that rape, greed, murder... in today's society can be traced back to the bible. Isn't that what you wanted?

It is clear from her posts what her point was, and you are just dancing and dodging to avoid it.


That is the actions of someone who knows that they have lost the argument.

So what was her point? Sum it up for me.

Normally I am not into playing along with people playing dumb, but this is a simple cut and paste, so...






Correct me if I'm wrong, but you've lived your entire life in a Western society. The people you've observed and made judgements about have also lived most or all of their lives in a Western society. The books you've read, movies you've watched, etc. were pretty much all created by people who lived most or all of their lives in Western societies. So basically, the moral standards permeating everything upon which you've made your judgements regarding right and wrong have been based on Western societal norms.

And, of course, Western civilization was built by and is heavily based on Christianity, and is completely permeated by and infused with Christian ideas and viewpoints.

But you'd have us believe that you somehow puzzled out a completely unique, original "personal moral standard" that is uninfluenced by and separate from Christianity.

Okay, Bubba, you go with that.

The norms western culture follows are not unique to the bible

 

[Correll]

Who were you worried about being punished BY?

God.

Now cut it out.

That is a lie.


Who were you worried about being punished BY?

I was afraid of being sent to hell where the devil will burn me for all eternity. Just like you.

I know why you are afraid to tell the truth.


I know what the answer is.


And you know that it makes a mockery of your pretense of being self contained.

Like GT said, the morals found in the bible weren't even original. Too funny.

GT's response is not yours.


HIs argument is a whole other path of discussion.

 

[Correll]

Your spurious attempts at distracting from the fact that you cannot refute what she said, is noted.

But I partially agreed with you and her, that rape, greed, murder... in today's society can be traced back to the bible. Isn't that what you wanted?

It is clear from her posts what her point was, and you are just dancing and dodging to avoid it.


That is the actions of someone who knows that they have lost the argument.

So what was her point? Sum it up for me.

Normally I am not into playing along with people playing dumb, but this is a simple cut and paste, so...






Correct me if I'm wrong, but you've lived your entire life in a Western society. The people you've observed and made judgements about have also lived most or all of their lives in a Western society. The books you've read, movies you've watched, etc. were pretty much all created by people who lived most or all of their lives in Western societies. So basically, the moral standards permeating everything upon which you've made your judgements regarding right and wrong have been based on Western societal norms.

And, of course, Western civilization was built by and is heavily based on Christianity, and is completely permeated by and infused with Christian ideas and viewpoints.

But you'd have us believe that you somehow puzzled out a completely unique, original "personal moral standard" that is uninfluenced by and separate from Christianity.

Okay, Bubba, you go with that.

The norms western culture follows are not unique to the bible

Taz is claiming to have developed his morality independently of any outside influence.


Your line of reasoning has nothing to do with him.

 

[Taz]

Is that what Jesus taught? To insult people that don't agree with you? I must have missed that part of the bible. What chapter is that?

Says the man still refusing to address her point.

She doesnt have a point. The "morals" written in the Bible that are used in Western Culture actually preceded the Bible and were adhered to by humans before it. Theres nothing special about the Bible's rendition of what was previously codified.

Prove it.

What's special about the Bible and its codification, which is not special about any other "rendition", is that it produced Western civilization. Nothing else, even if it contains some similarities, has ever achieved anything remotely like that.

How about you proving how Noah got kangaroos from Australia and back? I can't get a straight answer at this board.

I wasn't aware that I had ever made that statement, so why, precisely, am I expected to take responsibility for it?

I know, but since you're into the bible and it says that Noah got 2 of every.... blah...blah...blah.... I was wondering how you would answer this question, because no one at this board has given me a plausible explanation yet.

 

[Cecilie1200]

If I had to guess, I'd say being dropped on your head as a baby is what made you the dumbass you are.

But yes, claiming to have invented a personal moral code all by yourself, when you're really only cribbing notes from Christianity at second- and third-hand, would definitely be evidence of the aforementioned dumbassery.

Is that what Jesus taught? To insult people that don't agree with you? I must have missed that part of the bible. What chapter is that?

Says the man still refusing to address her point.

She doesnt have a point. The "morals" written in the Bible that are used in Western Culture actually preceded the Bible and were adhered to by humans before it. Theres nothing special about the Bible's rendition of what was previously codified.

Prove it.

What's special about the Bible and its codification, which is not special about any other "rendition", is that it produced Western civilization. Nothing else, even if it contains some similarities, has ever achieved anything remotely like that.

people were already doing weird things like being punished for murder, crucified for being theives even.

the bible itself proves the morals pre-existed it

Nope. Couple of reasons. First of all, I would challenge your assertion that morals "predate" the Bible. They may predate the writing and compilation of the Bible, but that doesn't mean they predate the events contained in the Bible.

Second, there's a big difference between killing people for certain behaviors and the system of morality laid out in the Bible, just as there is a difference between a mob lynching a man accused of murder and a court convicting and sentencing a man accused of murder.

 

[Taz]

God.

Now cut it out.

That is a lie.


Who were you worried about being punished BY?

I was afraid of being sent to hell where the devil will burn me for all eternity. Just like you.

I know why you are afraid to tell the truth.


I know what the answer is.


And you know that it makes a mockery of your pretense of being self contained.

Like GT said, the morals found in the bible weren't even original. Too funny.

GT's response is not yours.


HIs argument is a whole other path of discussion.

Ya, but still funny because you two were trying to say that Western civilization's morals were taken from the bible, which didn't invent those morals, so basically, your whole argument is an EPIC FAIL!

 

[G.T.]

But I partially agreed with you and her, that rape, greed, murder... in today's society can be traced back to the bible. Isn't that what you wanted?

It is clear from her posts what her point was, and you are just dancing and dodging to avoid it.


That is the actions of someone who knows that they have lost the argument.

So what was her point? Sum it up for me.

Normally I am not into playing along with people playing dumb, but this is a simple cut and paste, so...






Correct me if I'm wrong, but you've lived your entire life in a Western society. The people you've observed and made judgements about have also lived most or all of their lives in a Western society. The books you've read, movies you've watched, etc. were pretty much all created by people who lived most or all of their lives in Western societies. So basically, the moral standards permeating everything upon which you've made your judgements regarding right and wrong have been based on Western societal norms.

And, of course, Western civilization was built by and is heavily based on Christianity, and is completely permeated by and infused with Christian ideas and viewpoints.

But you'd have us believe that you somehow puzzled out a completely unique, original "personal moral standard" that is uninfluenced by and separate from Christianity.

Okay, Bubba, you go with that.

The norms western culture follows are not unique to the bible

Taz is claiming to have developed his morality independently of any outside influence.


Your line of reasoning has nothing to do with him.

The golden rule is literally built on one's own intuition.

I dont want to be treated like a dick, so I better not be a dick to others....is pretty self evident.

And murder, stealing and the whole lot of it follows same.

 

[Taz]

Is that what Jesus taught? To insult people that don't agree with you? I must have missed that part of the bible. What chapter is that?

Says the man still refusing to address her point.

She doesnt have a point. The "morals" written in the Bible that are used in Western Culture actually preceded the Bible and were adhered to by humans before it. Theres nothing special about the Bible's rendition of what was previously codified.

Prove it.

What's special about the Bible and its codification, which is not special about any other "rendition", is that it produced Western civilization. Nothing else, even if it contains some similarities, has ever achieved anything remotely like that.

people were already doing weird things like being punished for murder, crucified for being theives even.

the bible itself proves the morals pre-existed it

Nope. Couple of reasons. First of all, I would challenge your assertion that morals "predate" the Bible. They may predate the writing and compilation of the Bible, but that doesn't mean they predate the events contained in the Bible.

Second, there's a big difference between killing people for certain behaviors and the system of morality laid out in the Bible, just as there is a difference between a mob lynching a man accused of murder and a court convicting and sentencing a man accused of murder.

So where does god drowning all those people and animals in the Flood stand? Moral act? Or immoral act?

 

[G.T.]

Is that what Jesus taught? To insult people that don't agree with you? I must have missed that part of the bible. What chapter is that?

Says the man still refusing to address her point.

She doesnt have a point. The "morals" written in the Bible that are used in Western Culture actually preceded the Bible and were adhered to by humans before it. Theres nothing special about the Bible's rendition of what was previously codified.

Prove it.

What's special about the Bible and its codification, which is not special about any other "rendition", is that it produced Western civilization. Nothing else, even if it contains some similarities, has ever achieved anything remotely like that.

people were already doing weird things like being punished for murder, crucified for being theives even.

the bible itself proves the morals pre-existed it

Nope. Couple of reasons. First of all, I would challenge your assertion that morals "predate" the Bible. They may predate the writing and compilation of the Bible, but that doesn't mean they predate the events contained in the Bible.

Second, there's a big difference between killing people for certain behaviors and the system of morality laid out in the Bible, just as there is a difference between a mob lynching a man accused of murder and a court convicting and sentencing a man accused of murder.

you just defeated your own argument

morals are behaviors

killing people for stealing, murder...is literally a codified moral code and it predates jesus...

fuck, even as-evidenced by the STORY of jesus

read a book, shit

 

[Cecilie1200]

Your spurious attempts at distracting from the fact that you cannot refute what she said, is noted.

But I partially agreed with you and her, that rape, greed, murder... in today's society can be traced back to the bible. Isn't that what you wanted?

It is clear from her posts what her point was, and you are just dancing and dodging to avoid it.


That is the actions of someone who knows that they have lost the argument.

So what was her point? Sum it up for me.

Normally I am not into playing along with people playing dumb, but this is a simple cut and paste, so...






Correct me if I'm wrong, but you've lived your entire life in a Western society. The people you've observed and made judgements about have also lived most or all of their lives in a Western society. The books you've read, movies you've watched, etc. were pretty much all created by people who lived most or all of their lives in Western societies. So basically, the moral standards permeating everything upon which you've made your judgements regarding right and wrong have been based on Western societal norms.

And, of course, Western civilization was built by and is heavily based on Christianity, and is completely permeated by and infused with Christian ideas and viewpoints.

But you'd have us believe that you somehow puzzled out a completely unique, original "personal moral standard" that is uninfluenced by and separate from Christianity.

Okay, Bubba, you go with that.

The norms western culture follows are not unique to the bible

Yes, they actually are, both because other societies didn't and don't approach morality in the same way, and because Western civilization didn't draw its beliefs on morality from those societies, but directly from Christianity. No matter how much you try to weasel around it, Western civilization was built by people of Christian beliefs, based on those Christian beliefs, and it continues to take its values from those beliefs, whether it knows it or not.

 

[G.T.]

But I partially agreed with you and her, that rape, greed, murder... in today's society can be traced back to the bible. Isn't that what you wanted?

It is clear from her posts what her point was, and you are just dancing and dodging to avoid it.


That is the actions of someone who knows that they have lost the argument.

So what was her point? Sum it up for me.

Normally I am not into playing along with people playing dumb, but this is a simple cut and paste, so...






Correct me if I'm wrong, but you've lived your entire life in a Western society. The people you've observed and made judgements about have also lived most or all of their lives in a Western society. The books you've read, movies you've watched, etc. were pretty much all created by people who lived most or all of their lives in Western societies. So basically, the moral standards permeating everything upon which you've made your judgements regarding right and wrong have been based on Western societal norms.

And, of course, Western civilization was built by and is heavily based on Christianity, and is completely permeated by and infused with Christian ideas and viewpoints.

But you'd have us believe that you somehow puzzled out a completely unique, original "personal moral standard" that is uninfluenced by and separate from Christianity.

Okay, Bubba, you go with that.

The norms western culture follows are not unique to the bible

Yes, they actually are, both because other societies didn't and don't approach morality in the same way, and because Western civilization didn't draw its beliefs on morality from those societies, but directly from Christianity. No matter how much you try to weasel around it, Western civilization was built by people of Christian beliefs, based on those Christian beliefs, and it continues to take its values from those beliefs, whether it knows it or not.

History says quite different. Western Society was drawn from the writings of the enlightenment period. You can look into these things... www.google.com is a good start.

Id love to know which biblical moral was unique to the bible, barring the literal worship of its god

 

[Cecilie1200]

Says the man still refusing to address her point.

She doesnt have a point. The "morals" written in the Bible that are used in Western Culture actually preceded the Bible and were adhered to by humans before it. Theres nothing special about the Bible's rendition of what was previously codified.

Prove it.

What's special about the Bible and its codification, which is not special about any other "rendition", is that it produced Western civilization. Nothing else, even if it contains some similarities, has ever achieved anything remotely like that.

How about you proving how Noah got kangaroos from Australia and back? I can't get a straight answer at this board.

I wasn't aware that I had ever made that statement, so why, precisely, am I expected to take responsibility for it?

I know, but since you're into the bible and it says that Noah got 2 of every.... blah...blah...blah.... I was wondering how you would answer this question, because no one at this board has given me a plausible explanation yet.

There are a number of ways one can approach the story of Noah's flood. The Bible neither specifically endorses nor specifically rules out any of them, so it's up to you which one works for you.

First, you can go the strictly mystical route and say that, as God instructed Noah to collect two of every animal on Earth, He thus enabled Noah to do so by summoning those animals which weren't in the immediate area.

Second, you can assume that, since the author of the book of Genesis was a fairly primitive and uneducated man by our standards and knew little about the world beyond his own area of it, when he said the flood covered the entire world, what he was actually saying was that it covered the entire world as he knew it.

Third, Noah would have lived in what are basically prehistoric times. It is very unlikely that many of the species of animals we know today existed in that form during Noah's time. It is possible that the animals Noah collected were actually the progenitor species from which all those species eventually descended and evolved, much the same way that science tells us that humanity originated from tribes in the region of Mesopotamia.

Theories about how Noah's flood and his ark worked abound. The Bible is not tremendously specific about many things regarding the story. Feel free to explore them.

 

[Cecilie1200]

That is a lie.


Who were you worried about being punished BY?

I was afraid of being sent to hell where the devil will burn me for all eternity. Just like you.

I know why you are afraid to tell the truth.


I know what the answer is.


And you know that it makes a mockery of your pretense of being self contained.

Like GT said, the morals found in the bible weren't even original. Too funny.

GT's response is not yours.


HIs argument is a whole other path of discussion.

Ya, but still funny because you two were trying to say that Western civilization's morals were taken from the bible, which didn't invent those morals, so basically, your whole argument is an EPIC FAIL!

Yes, it did. Only the Bible, of all the things available at that time, set out and codified moral behavior in the way that it did, with the reasonings and motivations that it did. And, again, Western civilization drew its foundations from the teachings of the Bible, and not from those other societies. That is the point you are never going to get around.