A Georgia girl has died after her 4-year-old brother accidentally shot her

[harmonica]

hahahahhah---who do you think you're dealing with?
like I've said, I've been over this with 2AGuy---and with the research/facts/links
there are NOT a million SD uses per year-----these are not DOCUMENTED facts
I KNOW you will put up a link--but it will NOT have documented each use--not fact

RIDICULOUS!! THINK please with your big head--not emotionally
there are about 15,000 murders per year
so you think for every murder, there are over 50 SD uses???!!!!!!! [ if my math is correct ]
!!!
NO WAY
that means crime is MUCH higher than documented
BULLSHIT

Obama and Clintons check into it said between 600 thousand and 1.5 million uses, are you calling them Liars?

impressive links you have
AND--they SAID------???? hahahahahahahha
no REAL statistics --ACTUAL incidents
??!!!

The problem is that when people deter a crime, they rarely report it.
But we know there are over 1 million successful serious crimes every years, and that almost 4 times as many failed attempts as successful one.
So it is possible or even likely that people prevent over 4 million serious crimes every year, and almost half of them are prevented because of a defensive possession of a firearm.

hey!!!!
so what you are saying is the US crime rate is MUCH higher than it really is
MANY times higher
.....and you know what??? all this BULLSHIT the pro-gunners/2AGuy says about how gun ownership bringing crime rates lower is BULLSHIT
..so when they say the UK with strict gun control has a higher crime rate--you say that's not true at all----guns DON'T help reduce crime

so anyway you look at it, you people have problems with your arguments

but we know there are not that many SD uses

No, the crime rate is the rate of reported successful crimes, and that is about half of the actual crime rate because many victims of crimes can not risk reporting them. That includes anyone earning money illegally, such as drugs, prostitution, gambling, etc.
But the unsuccessful crimes are not counted at all, whether reported or not.
So statistics have been estimated by interviewing criminals, anonymous phone polls, etc.
So we know that around 2 million unsuccessful crime attempts occur for those 1 million successful crimes that are reported.

And your use of the UK to claim that guns don't prevent crimes makes no sense at all.
Obviously in the UK it is much harder to prevent crimes because the average population is unarmed.
So then clearly there should be a high rate of success to crime in the UK, and there is.

darts vs AR15 with 30 round mag----??!!!!???
wrong------you people make this way too easy to shoot down your ''theories''
unsuccessful crime???? not reported??? !!!!!!
wtf??
.....if someone breaks into a bank to steal and doesn't steal--that's a crime even if the robbery is unsuccessful

the US should have one of the lowest crime rates because it has one of the highest gun ownerships--but it doesn't

unsuccessful crimes are reported also

ok --you lost it with the poison dart deal
STILL no proof on over 1 million real SD uses
this game has been over long ago

 

[harmonica]

...
1. again--you people must have an aversion to providing proof
2. you also must not be able to comprehend basic sentences---no one said murder is the only crime stopped
it's a comparison!!!!
so--again--you are saying for every 1 murder, there are about 90 REAL SD uses--NO WAY
.....if there is a REAL SD use, it is reported in my city's news ...and sometimes even these turn out to be bullshit
.....

You really are not making any sense at all.
The DOJ statistics are that over 1 million serious crimes are successful every year in the US.
So then what researchers are claiming, and are likely correct, is that about 2 million serious crimes a year are prevented by someone with a firearm.
No one should just be talking about murders, and it is only a factor of 2 or so, not 90.
And personally, I think any serious crime like rape, should be stopped if possible, and only firearms can do that.

1. those/etc stats are NOT individually documented

2. you people have NOT shown any links--you keep babbling the same shit over and over

 

[Rigby5]

...
There are not 15000 murders a year more like 10 to 11 thousand but then you lie as a rule of thumb.

hahahahhah--you fked up too!!!
...so if the murder count is lower at 11,000, that means you think for every murder there are MORE SD uses!!! almost 100!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
here, I'll show you
for every 1 murder

1 murder
i
you say there are 100 SD uses [ ahhahah ] bullshit

SD uses per 1 murder
iiiiiiiiii iiiiiiiiii
iiiiiiiiii iiiiiiiiii
iiiiiiiiii iiiiiiiiii
iiiiiiiiii iiiiiiiiii
iiiiiiiiii iiiiiiiiii

NO WAY[/QUOTE]

That is foolish.
Most serious crimes that you use firearms to stop are rape and robbery, not murder.
It is very hard to stop a determined murder because there is little warning and it can be done from a distance.
To commit a rape or robbery, you have to get much closer, so it is much easier to deter that.

There are over 1 million successful reported, serious, crimes every year in the US.
Are you suggesting most attempts at crime are successful, or that they could not all have been prevented by defensive firearms?

 

[Aletheia4u]

A Georgia girl has died after her 4-year-old brother accidentally shot her, authorities say - CNN

"Detectives determined that no charges will be filed."

Really? Way to go Mom.

Guns has saved many lives in the past. But what shall we do about these things that are killing innocent lives? I wish t5hat they make a law that you cannot sue anyone, that if their gun has accidentally killed someone.

 

[elongobardi]

Sucks.....no education, no training.....this is what happens. Tragedy the need'nt have happened.

this stuff happens with humans --training or not
guns are the MOST efficient hand held tools DESIGNED for killing
....human error is the biggest reason for air crashes--not faulty planes--because humans are not perfect
.....humans are stupid-imperfect--HIGHLY erratic----they come up with the most stupid shit--give them a '''tool''' DESIGNED to kill EASILY and it is UNDENIABLE/obvious that they will kill----purposely and not on purpose
...remember the girl who accidentally killed the gun range operator??...she was not even trying to kill him
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...instructors-family-files-wrongful-death-suit/

There last 2 plane crashes were caused by faulty plane equipment. The planes have been grounded. Guns save a lot more lives then they take. Guns don’t kill people. People who get the guns illegally do. Also at least 70% of all mass shootings could have been stopped but people not speaking up and federal agencies not following up on there leads. Libtards have no understanding of guns and how to handle them. Stop protecting the crazy people and allow mental health checks and stick the HIPPA laws up your ass.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Rigby5]

Obama and Clintons check into it said between 600 thousand and 1.5 million uses, are you calling them Liars?

impressive links you have
AND--they SAID------???? hahahahahahahha
no REAL statistics --ACTUAL incidents
??!!!

The problem is that when people deter a crime, they rarely report it.
But we know there are over 1 million successful serious crimes every years, and that almost 4 times as many failed attempts as successful one.
So it is possible or even likely that people prevent over 4 million serious crimes every year, and almost half of them are prevented because of a defensive possession of a firearm.

hey!!!!
so what you are saying is the US crime rate is MUCH higher than it really is
MANY times higher
.....and you know what??? all this BULLSHIT the pro-gunners/2AGuy says about how gun ownership bringing crime rates lower is BULLSHIT
..so when they say the UK with strict gun control has a higher crime rate--you say that's not true at all----guns DON'T help reduce crime

so anyway you look at it, you people have problems with your arguments

but we know there are not that many SD uses

No, the crime rate is the rate of reported successful crimes, and that is about half of the actual crime rate because many victims of crimes can not risk reporting them. That includes anyone earning money illegally, such as drugs, prostitution, gambling, etc.
But the unsuccessful crimes are not counted at all, whether reported or not.
So statistics have been estimated by interviewing criminals, anonymous phone polls, etc.
So we know that around 2 million unsuccessful crime attempts occur for those 1 million successful crimes that are reported.

And your use of the UK to claim that guns don't prevent crimes makes no sense at all.
Obviously in the UK it is much harder to prevent crimes because the average population is unarmed.
So then clearly there should be a high rate of success to crime in the UK, and there is.

darts vs AR15 with 30 round mag----??!!!!???
wrong------you people make this way too easy to shoot down your ''theories''
unsuccessful crime???? not reported??? !!!!!!
wtf??
.....if someone breaks into a bank to steal and doesn't steal--that's a crime even if the robbery is unsuccessful

the US should have one of the lowest crime rates because it has one of the highest gun ownerships--but it doesn't

unsuccessful crimes are reported also

ok --you lost it with the poison dart deal
STILL no proof on over 1 million real SD uses
this game has been over long ago

A poison dart is vastly more lethal than an M-16 because you can wound anywhere and they are dead.
In fact, the military does use darts, even though not poisoned, because they want to be less lethal.
They are called flechettes.

They are usually packed in bundles, like shotgun shells, 20 mm cannon shells, etc.

As for unreported crimes, most crimes are not bank robberies that would have to be reported even if unsuccessful.
If someone breaks into your car or garage, or someone fails in a rape abduction, are they going to be reported?
The answer usually is no, because if a firearm was used to prevent the crime, you don't want the police to know you have a firearm. It could put you on a list.

As for crime rates, they have nothing at all to do with defensive firearms.
Crime rates only are caused by known factors, like poverty, injustice, lack of opportunity, etc.
The firearm ownership rate can reduce the success rate of crime, but has nothing at all to do with the actual crime rate.

As to the over 1 million successful crimes annually in the US, they are well known and published DOJ stats.
Bureau of Justice Statistics (BJS)

If for example, the graph says 400 per 100,000 people, with a total population of 330 million, that is scaling factor of 3300.
So then 400 times 3300 results in 1,320,000 serious violent crimes.
There is nothing remotely controversial about these well known numbers.

 

[The VOR]

A Georgia girl has died after her 4-year-old brother accidentally shot her, authorities say - CNN

"Detectives determined that no charges will be filed."

Really? Way to go Mom.

That's a tragedy. It's awful.

Do you get more or less upset when someone is texting while driving and kills a 4 year old?

Just as, but nice try, asshole.

 

[Rigby5]

There are over a million self defense uses of firearms a year remind me when we had 2 dozen MILLION murders?

hahahahhah---who do you think you're dealing with?
like I've said, I've been over this with 2AGuy---and with the research/facts/links
there are NOT a million SD uses per year-----these are not DOCUMENTED facts
I KNOW you will put up a link--but it will NOT have documented each use--not fact

RIDICULOUS!! THINK please with your big head--not emotionally
there are about 15,000 murders per year
so you think for every murder, there are over 50 SD uses???!!!!!!! [ if my math is correct ]
!!!
NO WAY
that means crime is MUCH higher than documented
BULLSHIT

Obama and Clintons check into it said between 600 thousand and 1.5 million uses, are you calling them Liars?

impressive links you have
AND--they SAID------???? hahahahahahahha
no REAL statistics --ACTUAL incidents
??!!!

The problem is that when people deter a crime, they rarely report it.
But we know there are over 1 million successful serious crimes every years, and that almost 4 times as many failed attempts as successful one.
So it is possible or even likely that people prevent over 4 million serious crimes every year, and almost half of them are prevented because of a defensive possession of a firearm.

so they have a serious crime committed against them and they don't report it??????????????????????????!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
this is DUMBSHIT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
why don't they report it?? are they ''part of the crime???
please see ALL my previous posts----

Why would anyone private report a failed crime attempt, no matter how serious?
A bank or store has to, because they are not private.
They have to follow rules set by others who control or own the business.
But people try to break into my car, garage, or home, at least once a month.
What possible reason would I have to waste time reporting it?
And no one wants to deal with the police if they do not absolutely have to.
The only time you report crime is when required to in order to get an insurance payment.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Obama and Clintons check into it said between 600 thousand and 1.5 million uses, are you calling them Liars?

impressive links you have
AND--they SAID------???? hahahahahahahha
no REAL statistics --ACTUAL incidents
??!!!

The problem is that when people deter a crime, they rarely report it.
But we know there are over 1 million successful serious crimes every years, and that almost 4 times as many failed attempts as successful one.
So it is possible or even likely that people prevent over 4 million serious crimes every year, and almost half of them are prevented because of a defensive possession of a firearm.

hey!!!!
so what you are saying is the US crime rate is MUCH higher than it really is
MANY times higher
.....and you know what??? all this BULLSHIT the pro-gunners/2AGuy says about how gun ownership bringing crime rates lower is BULLSHIT
..so when they say the UK with strict gun control has a higher crime rate--you say that's not true at all----guns DON'T help reduce crime

so anyway you look at it, you people have problems with your arguments

but we know there are not that many SD uses

No, the crime rate is the rate of reported successful crimes, and that is about half of the actual crime rate because many victims of crimes can not risk reporting them. That includes anyone earning money illegally, such as drugs, prostitution, gambling, etc.
But the unsuccessful crimes are not counted at all, whether reported or not.
So statistics have been estimated by interviewing criminals, anonymous phone polls, etc.
So we know that around 2 million unsuccessful crime attempts occur for those 1 million successful crimes that are reported.

And your use of the UK to claim that guns don't prevent crimes makes no sense at all.
Obviously in the UK it is much harder to prevent crimes because the average population is unarmed.
So then clearly there should be a high rate of success to crime in the UK, and there is.

darts vs AR15 with 30 round mag----??!!!!???
wrong------you people make this way too easy to shoot down your ''theories''
unsuccessful crime???? not reported??? !!!!!!
wtf??
.....if someone breaks into a bank to steal and doesn't steal--that's a crime even if the robbery is unsuccessful

the US should have one of the lowest crime rates because it has one of the highest gun ownerships--but it doesn't

unsuccessful crimes are reported also

ok --you lost it with the poison dart deal
STILL no proof on over 1 million real SD uses
this game has been over long ago

CDC and independent investigations CLEARLY show that millions of unreported attacks or attempts of crimes are done every year. You are an idiot that only believes in certain things, you are wrong and you prove it every day.

 

[2aguy]

That must have been a rough baseball game that they were going to if she needed to take a gun.
Always keep guns locked up.
Don't leave a gun in your car.
People should not carry guns on a daily basis because it's very dangerous and a yooog responsibility.

Except 17.25 million people in America actually do carry guns for self defense....how many died by accidental gun death in 2017?

486

17.25 million people carrying guns, and 486 accidental gun deaths.....and we don't have the number for those who were killed when those guns were being carried...

So you don't know what you are talking about...

Fatal Injury Data | WISQARS | Injury Center | CDC

2017 accidental gun death.....486

Guns....486

Cars....38,659

Poison...64,795
Fall (Gravity) ...36,338
Suffocation...6,946
Fire....2,902
Struck, by or against...819
Bicycle...345

 

[Pogo]

>> Let us leave aside for the moment the fact that since 9/11 not a single American has been killed in a terrorist attack by a citizen from the countries on this list. The reality is that an American is at least twice as likely to be shot dead by a toddler than killed by a terrorist. In 2014 88 Americans were shot dead, on average, every day: 58 killed themselves while 30 were murdered. In that same year 18 Americans were killed by terrorist attacks in the US. Put more starkly: more Americans were killed by firearms roughly every five hours than were killed by terrorists in an entire year.<<​

From the same article this line is less relevant but I like its train of thought:

>> To hide behind the mantra “guns don’t kill people, people kill people” is an act of fallacious sophistry. Toasters don’t make toast, people make toast. True. But toasters exist to make toast: guns exist to kill people. <<​

Unfortunately in the instant case, the instrument did exactly what it was designed to do.

 

[2aguy]

That must have been a rough baseball game that they were going to if she needed to take a gun.
Always keep guns locked up.
Don't leave a gun in you car.
People should not carry guns on a daily basis because it's very dangerous and a yooog responsibility.

And when someone busts into your house and is running down your hall what good will that locked up gun do?

No gun in the car? Carjackers love easy victims.

Shouldn't carry guns on a daily basis because it's dangerous? Tell the cops that.

you are so ridiculous
1. get a dog/lock your doors and windows
...my dogs have always alerted us when someone is just even getting out of cars nearby
...if any one gets even near out doors or window, the dog will alert us
you can have the pistol handy/locked up/etc and still be able to retrieve it in time
..I lived in a ''bad'' hood' for 25 years --and my parents--and we never had anyone break in
2. cops get murdered even though they carry --you are NOT Dirty Harry Mr Tough guy hero
3. if you have KIDS---LOCK you weapons up --if not, keep them on you--it is stupid not to
4. living in a house with a gun increase chances of death
Living in a house with a gun increases your odds of death
5. I would like to own an SD pistol.....but I have teenage kids--so I would LOCK it up and/or keep near me-on me
...I am not anti-gun--just pro-common sense
6. those jackass prison escapees got their weapon from an unoccupied house where someone left their weapons
2015 Clinton Correctional Facility escape - Wikipedia

4. living in a house with a gun increase chances of death
Living in a house with a gun increases your odds of death

Wrong....living in a house with a drug dealer, alcoholic or criminal and a gun increases your chance of death, not owning a gun for self defense....

Public Health and Gun Control: A Review

In 1993, in his landmark and much cited NEJM article (and the research, again, heavily funded by the CDC), Dr. Kellermann attempted to show again that guns in the home are a greater risk to the victims than to the assailants.4

Despite valid criticisms by reputable scholars of his previous works (including the 1986 study), Dr. Kellermann ignored the criticisms and again used the same methodology.

He also used study populations with disproportionately high rates of serious psychosocial dysfunction from three selected state counties, known to be unrepresentative of the general U.S. population.

For example,

53 percent of the case subjects had a history of a household member being arrested,

31 percent had a household history of illicit drug use,

32 percent had a household member hit or hurt in a family fight,

and 17 percent had a family member hurt so seriously in a domestic altercation that prompt medical attention was required.

Moreover, both the case studies and control groups in this analysis had a very high incidence of financial instability.

In fact, in this study, gun ownership, the supposedly high risk factor for homicide was not one of the most strongly associated factors for being murdered.

Drinking, illicit drugs, living alone, history of family violence, living in a rented home were all greater individual risk factors for being murdered than a gun in the home.

One must conclude there is no basis to apply the conclusions of this study to the general population.

All of these are factors that, as Dr. Suter pointed out, "would expectedly be associated with higher rates of violence and homicide."5

It goes without saying, the results of such a study on gun homicides, selecting this sort of unrepresentative population sample, nullify the authors' generalizations, and their preordained, conclusions can not be extrapolated to the general population.

Moreover, although the 1993 New England Journal of Medicine study purported to show that the homicide victims were killed with a gun ordinarily kept in the home, the fact is that as Kates and associates point out 71.1 percent of the victims were killed by assailants who did not live in the victims¹ household using guns presumably not kept in that home.6

While Kellermann and associates began with 444 cases of homicides in the home, cases were dropped from the study for a variety of reasons, and in the end, only 316 matched pairs were used in the final analysis, representing only 71.2 percent of the original 444 homicide cases.

This reduction increased tremendously the chance for sampling bias. Analysis of why 28.8 percent of the cases were dropped would have helped ascertain if the study was compromised by the existence of such biases, but Dr. Kellermann, in an unprecedented move, refused to release his data and make it available for other researchers to analyze.

Likewise, Prof. Gary Kleck of Florida State University has written me that knowledge about what guns were kept in the home is essential, but this data in his study was never released by Dr. Kellermann: "The most likely bit of data that he would want to withhold is information as to whether the gun used in the gun homicides was kept in the home of the victim."*

As Kates and associates point out, "The validity of the NEJM 1993 study¹s conclusions depend on the control group matching the homicide cases in every way (except, of course, for the occurrence of the homicide)."6

However, in this study, the controls collected did not match the cases in many ways (i.e., for example, in the amount of substance abuse, single parent versus two parent homes, etc.) contributing to further untoward effects, and decreasing the inference that can legitimately be drawn from the data of this study. Be that as it may, "The conclusion that gun ownership is a risk factor for homicide derives from the finding of a gun in 45.4 percent of the homicide case households, but in only 35.8 percent of the control household. Whether that finding is accurate, however, depends on the truthfulness of control group interviewees in admitting the presence of a gun or guns in the home."6

=======

https://crimeresearch.org/wp-conten...ack-of-Public-Health-Research-on-Firearms.pdf

The vast majority of these “children” are actually young adults. These are not little kids who accidentally hurt themselves by firing their parents’ gun. Consider these facts: • 76% of these injured “children” were 17, 18, or 19 years old. • 62% of injuries were the result of criminal assaults. • The injuries are overwhelmingly concentrated in large, urban areas

 

[2aguy]

That must have been a rough baseball game that they were going to if she needed to take a gun.
Always keep guns locked up.
Don't leave a gun in you car.
People should not carry guns on a daily basis because it's very dangerous and a yooog responsibility.

A rough baseball game? No, more like a collection of people usually unarmed sitting in a densely populated little area, a prime target for a mass shooting. I wouldn't go anywhere like that UNLESS I was armed. I know you prefer unarmed victims, but we don't.

And when someone busts into your house and is running down your hall what good will that locked up gun do?

No gun in the car? Carjackers love easy victims.

Shouldn't carry guns on a daily basis because it's dangerous? Tell the cops that.

I've been over this before with 2AGuy--there are dozens of murders for every SD use
and this is not counting guns used in rapes/crimes either

And you are wrong, every single time......

According to the CDC Americans use their legal guns 1.1 million times a year for self defense.....according to the Department of Justice it is 1.5 million times a year....

Murders with guns in 2017?

Expanded Homicide Data Table 8



For 2017.....with now more than 17.25 million Americans carrying guns for self defense....10,982

 

[2aguy]

That must have been a rough baseball game that they were going to if she needed to take a gun.
Always keep guns locked up.
Don't leave a gun in you car.
People should not carry guns on a daily basis because it's very dangerous and a yooog responsibility.

A rough baseball game? No, more like a collection of people usually unarmed sitting in a densely populated little area, a prime target for a mass shooting. I wouldn't go anywhere like that UNLESS I was armed. I know you prefer unarmed victims, but we don't.

And when someone busts into your house and is running down your hall what good will that locked up gun do?

No gun in the car? Carjackers love easy victims.

Shouldn't carry guns on a daily basis because it's dangerous? Tell the cops that.

I've been over this before with 2AGuy--there are dozens of murders for every SD use
and this is not counting guns used in rapes/crimes either

There are over a million self defense uses of firearms a year remind me when we had 2 dozen MILLION murders?

hahahahhah---who do you think you're dealing with?
like I've said, I've been over this with 2AGuy---and with the research/facts/links
there are NOT a million SD uses per year-----these are not DOCUMENTED facts
I KNOW you will put up a link--but it will NOT have documented each use--not fact

RIDICULOUS!! THINK please with your big head--not emotionally
there are about 15,000 murders per year
so you think for every murder, there are over 50 SD uses???!!!!!!! [ if my math is correct ]
!!!
NO WAY
that means crime is MUCH higher than documented
BULLSHIT

and you are wrong...again...

What Do CDC's Surveys Say About the Frequency of Defensive Gun Uses? by Gary Kleck :: SSRN



Abstract
In 1996, 1997, and 1998, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) conducted large-scale surveys asking about defensive gun use (DGU) in four to seven states. Analysis of the raw data allows the estimation of the prevalence of DGU for those areas. Data pertaining to the same sets of states from the 1993 National Self-Defense Survey (Kleck and Gertz 1995) allow these results to be extrapolated to the U.S. as a whole. CDC’s survey data confirm previous high estimates of DGU prevalence, disconfirm estimates derived from the National Crime Victimization Survey, and indicate that defensive uses of guns by crime victims are far more common than offensive uses by criminals. CDC has never reported these results.



A quick guide to the studies and the numbers.....the full lay out of what was studied by each study is in the links....

The name of the group doing the study, the year of the study, the number of defensive gun uses and if police and military defensive gun uses are included.....notice the bill clinton and obama defensive gun use research is highlighted.....

GunCite-Gun Control-How Often Are Guns Used in Self-Defense

GunCite Frequency of Defensive Gun Use in Previous Surveys

Field...1976....3,052,717 ( no cops, no military)

DMIa 1978...2,141,512 ( no cops, no military)

L.A. TIMES...1994...3,609,68 ( no cops, no military)

Kleck......1994...2.5 million ( no cops, no military)

CDC...1996-1998... 1.1 million averaged over those years.( no cops, no military)

Obama's CDC....2013....500,000--3million

--------------------


Bordua...1977...1,414,544

DMIb...1978...1,098,409 ( no cops, no military)

Hart...1981...1.797,461 ( no cops, no military)

Mauser...1990...1,487,342 ( no cops,no military)

Gallup...1993...1,621,377 ( no cops, no military)

DEPT. OF JUSTICE...1994...1.5 million ( the bill clinton study)

Journal of Quantitative Criminology--- 989,883 times per year."

(Based on survey data from a 2000 study published in the Journal of Quantitative Criminology,[17] U.S. civilians use guns to defend themselves and others from crime at least 989,883 times per year.[18])

Paper: "Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment." By David McDowall and others. Journal of Quantitative Criminology, March 2000. Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment - Springer


-------------------------------------------

Ohio...1982...771,043

Gallup...1991...777,152

Tarrance... 1994... 764,036 (no cops, no military)

Lawerence Southwich Jr. 400,000 fewer violent crimes and at least 800,000 violent crimes deterred..

 

[Montrovant]

First of all, guns have never been designed for killing.
If they were, than any wound would be fatal because bullets would contain poison, just as some people did with edged weapons thousands of years ago.

I don't know if this is the most ridiculous statement I've read on this site, but it's got to be up there.

 

[RealDave]

a little girl is dead and Taxman mocks it--
I see it's been deleted----good call

Oh please, you mock ever single child gunned down in school shooting by blocking ever effort to stop access to assault type rifles,.

 

[2aguy]

That must have been a rough baseball game that they were going to if she needed to take a gun.
Always keep guns locked up.
Don't leave a gun in you car.
People should not carry guns on a daily basis because it's very dangerous and a yooog responsibility.

A rough baseball game? No, more like a collection of people usually unarmed sitting in a densely populated little area, a prime target for a mass shooting. I wouldn't go anywhere like that UNLESS I was armed. I know you prefer unarmed victims, but we don't.

And when someone busts into your house and is running down your hall what good will that locked up gun do?

No gun in the car? Carjackers love easy victims.

Shouldn't carry guns on a daily basis because it's dangerous? Tell the cops that.

I've been over this before with 2AGuy--there are dozens of murders for every SD use
and this is not counting guns used in rapes/crimes either

There are over a million self defense uses of firearms a year remind me when we had 2 dozen MILLION murders?

When analyzing the most reliable data available, what is most striking is that in a nation of more than 300 million guns, how rarely firearms are used in self-defense.

• In 2015, the FBI reports there were only 265 justifiable homicides involving a private citizen using a firearm. That same year, there were 9,027 criminal gun homicides. Guns were used in 34 criminal homicides for every justifiable homicide.

Self-Defense Gun Use
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...ple-die/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.ace3b45d7441

And as the actual research shows, law abiding gun owners don't kill their attackers unless there is no alternative.......and out of all the crimes committed each year, only those 265 are so stupid that they press the attack against an armed victim.....

as the actual research shows, criminals run away when confronted by a gun...so they aren't shot, they surrender to the victim....so they aren't shot, or when they are really stupid, the criminal is shot and injured, not killed...

What will it take for you anti-gunners to understand that criminals are not suicidal and are not looking to die to commit their crimes?

Why do you morons think that law abiding people are willing to just pull the trigger when the criminal runs away, or surrenders?

 

[2aguy]

a little girl is dead and Taxman mocks it--
I see it's been deleted----good call

Oh please, you mock ever single child gunned down in school shooting by blocking ever effort to stop access to assault type rifles,.

There are over 8 million AR-15 rifles in private hands, that doesn't include all the other semi-automatic rifles in private hands....how many kids were killed by them......18 at Parkland...out of 74 million kids in this country....and 26 at Sandy hook...........

So no, you don't get to take 8 million guns away from people who don't use them to commit crimes because one guy used one rifle to kill 18 kids...something he would have been able to do with pistols......

You doofus....knives kill over 1,500 people every single year....more than all rifles combined......hands and feet kill more people every single year than all rifles combined...dittos clubs.....so you have no argument for confiscating those weapons...

 

[2aguy]

A Georgia girl has died after her 4-year-old brother accidentally shot her, authorities say - CNN

"Detectives determined that no charges will be filed."

Really? Way to go Mom.

A small price to pay for our second amendment freedoms

They keep us safe

Considering 12 million unarmed people were murdered because they didn't have a 2nd Amendment in Europe....you are right.

 

[2aguy]

There are over a million self defense uses of firearms a year remind me when we had 2 dozen MILLION murders?

hahahahhah---who do you think you're dealing with?
like I've said, I've been over this with 2AGuy---and with the research/facts/links
there are NOT a million SD uses per year-----these are not DOCUMENTED facts
I KNOW you will put up a link--but it will NOT have documented each use--not fact

RIDICULOUS!! THINK please with your big head--not emotionally
there are about 15,000 murders per year
so you think for every murder, there are over 50 SD uses???!!!!!!! [ if my math is correct ]
!!!
NO WAY
that means crime is MUCH higher than documented
BULLSHIT

Obama and Clintons check into it said between 600 thousand and 1.5 million uses, are you calling them Liars?

impressive links you have
AND--they SAID------???? hahahahahahahha
no REAL statistics --ACTUAL incidents
??!!!

The problem is that when people deter a crime, they rarely report it.
But we know there are over 1 million successful serious crimes every years, and that almost 4 times as many failed attempts as successful one.
So it is possible or even likely that people prevent over 4 million serious crimes every year, and almost half of them are prevented because of a defensive possession of a firearm.

hey!!!!
so what you are saying is the US crime rate is MUCH higher than it really is
MANY times higher
.....and you know what??? all this BULLSHIT the pro-gunners/2AGuy says about how gun ownership bringing crime rates lower is BULLSHIT
..so when they say the UK with strict gun control has a higher crime rate--you say that's not true at all----guns DON'T help reduce crime

so anyway you look at it, you people have problems with your arguments

but we know there are not that many SD uses

Wrong again....

Do Right-to-carry laws reduce violent crime? - Crime Prevention Research Center


Crime, Deterrence, and Right-to-Carry Concealed Handguns, John R. Lott, Jr. and David B. Mustard, Journal of Legal Studies, 1997

The Effect of Concealed Weapons Laws: An Extreme Bound Analysis by William Alan Bartley and Mark A Cohen, published in Economic Inquiry, April 1998 (Copy available here)

The Concealed‐Handgun Debate, John R. Lott, Jr., Journal of Legal Studies, January 1998

Criminal Deterrence, Geographic Spillovers, and Right-to-Carry Concealed Handguns by Stephen Bronars and John R. Lott, Jr., American Economic Review, May 1998

The Impact of Gun Laws on Police Deaths by David Mustard, published in the Journal of Law and Economics, October 2001

Privately Produced General Deterrence By BRUCE L. BENSON AND BRENT D. MAST, Journal of Law and Economics, October 2001

Does the Right to Carry Concealed Handguns Deter Countable Crimes? Only a Count Analysis Can Say By FLORENZ PLASSMANN AND T. NICOLAUS TIDEMAN, Journal of Law and Economics, October 2001

Testing for the Effects of Concealed Weapons Laws: Specification Errors and Robustness By CARLISLE E. MOODY, Journal of Law and Economics, October 2001

Right-to-Carry Concealed Weapon Laws and Homicide in Large U.S. Counties: The Effect on Weapon Types, Victim Characteristics, and Victim-Offender Relationships By DAVID E. OLSON AND MICHAEL D. MALTZ, Journal of Law and Economics, October 2001

Safe-Storage Gun Laws: Accidental Deaths, Suicides, and Crime By JOHN R. LOTT, JR., AND JOHN E. WHITLEY, Journal of Law and Economics, October 2001 — see Table 3 on page 679

Confirming More Guns, Less Crime by Florenz Plassmann and John Whitley, published in the Stanford Law Review, 2003

Measurement Error in County-Level UCR Data by John R. Lott, Jr. and John Whitley, published in the Journal of Quantitative Criminology, June 2003, Volume 19, Issue 2, pp 185-198

Using Placebo Laws to Test “More Guns, Less Crime” by Eric Helland and Alexander Tabarrok, published in Advances in Economic Analysis and Policy, 4 (1): Article 1, 2004

Abortion and Crime: Unwanted children and out-of-wedlock births, John R. Lott, Jr and John Whitley, October 2006.– page 14, Table 2.

The Impact of Banning Juvenile Gun Possession By Thomas B. Marvell, Journal of Law and Economics, October 2001 — page 707, fn. 29

Multiple Victim Public Shootings, Bombings, and Right-to-Carry Concealed Handgun Laws: Contrasting Private and Public Law Enforcement By John R. Lott, Jr. and William Landes, published in The Bias Against Guns

More Readers of Gun Magazines, But Not More Crimes by Florenz Plassmann and John R. Lott, Jr. — many places in the text.

“More Guns, Less Crime” by John R Lott, Jr. (University of Chicago Press, 2010, 3rd edition).

“The Debate on Shall-Issue Laws” by Carlisle e. Moody, Thomas B. Marvell, Paul R Zimmerman, and Fasil Alemante published in Review of Economics & Finance, 2014

“An examination of the effects of concealed weapons laws and assault weapons bans on state-level murder rates” by Mark Giusa published in Applied Economics Letters, Volume 21, Issue 4, 2014

“The Debate on Shall-Issue Laws” by Carlisle e. Moody and Thomas B. Marvell, published in Econ Journal Watch, volume 5, number 3, September 2008 It is also available here..

“The Debate on Shall Issue Laws, Continued” by Carlisle e. Moody and Thomas B. Marvell, published in Econ Journal Watch, Volume 6, Number 2 May 2009

“Did John Lott Provide Bad Data to the NRC? A Note on Aneja, Donohue, and Zhang” by Carlisle e. Moody, John R Lott, Jr, and Thomas B. Marvell, published in Econ Journal Watch, Volume 10, Number 1, January 2013

“On the Choice of Control Variables in the Crime Equation” by Carlisle E. Moody and Thomas B. Marvell, Oxford Bulletin of Economics and Statistics, Volume 72, Issue 5, pages 696–715, October 2010.

“The Impact of Right-to-Carry Laws: A Critique of the 2014 Version of Aneja, Donohue, and Zhang,” Carlisle E. Moody and Thomas B. Marvell, Econ Journal Watch, January 2018: 51-66.

More Guns, Less Crime: A Response to Ayres and Donohue’s 1999 book review in the American Law and Economics Review by John R. Lott, Jr.

Right-to-Carry Laws and Violent Crime Revisited: Clustering, Measurement Error, and State-by-State Break downs by John R. Lott, Jr.