Zone1 A Major Difference of the Catholic Faith

[Meriweather]

Here's the bottom line. I believe that NO ONE will be able to offer the slightest defense of themselves when they are before God, because our sinfulness will stand in stark contrast to His holiness. I don't care how long you think you can work on yourself in Purgatory, you will not be able to stand before God and say anything about your own holiness. And, finally, I do not believe that Christ cannot completely cleanse you in a moment, that somehow, He couldn't get the job done before He called us home.

Blood over unrighteousness. Boasting. Offering a defense.

Blood sacrifice wasn't ever a requirement for having sins forgiven. Blood was required when establishing a covenant. During the Last Supper, Jesus took the chalice saying, "This is my blood of the covenant, which will be shed on behalf of many..." Throughout his ministry Jesus proclaimed repentance for the forgiveness of sins, and the leaders of his day kept demanding by whose authority did he say such a thing.

The New Covenant (also called Testament) was ratified by Jesus' own blood. There is a difference between a people under a new covenant with God, and a people who believe it was all about punishment--that they deserved to be punished, so God punished Jesus.

The better question to ask oneself when appearing at the Gates of Heaven: "Did/do I love God as much as he deserves?" God loves us and always has. No one needs a defense against love. Did the Prodigal Son need to defend himself to his father? Is God blinded by blood over unrighteousness, or is he still supremely cognizant of who we are deep down--and loves us? Does God want everyone to be the best version of him/herself?

'Attitude' is not a boastful remark. 'Attitude' is presumption of the highest order.

 

[hadit]

I am appalled. Seriously. That is what you get from 'attitude'? Unbelievable. But moving on.

No one will have an entitled attitude when they are before God. No one will be able to proclaim their own holiness, no matter how long they've been in Purgatory.

 

[hadit]

Blood over unrighteousness. Boasting. Offering a defense.

Blood sacrifice wasn't ever a requirement for having sins forgiven. Blood was required when establishing a covenant. During the Last Supper, Jesus took the chalice saying, "This is my blood of the covenant, which will be shed on behalf of many..." Throughout his ministry Jesus proclaimed repentance for the forgiveness of sins, and the leaders of his day kept demanding by whose authority did he say such a thing.

The New Covenant (also called Testament) was ratified by Jesus' own blood. There is a difference between a people under a new covenant with God, and a people who believe it was all about punishment--that they deserved to be punished, so God punished Jesus.

The better question to ask oneself when appearing at the Gates of Heaven: "Did/do I love God as much as he deserves?" God loves us and always has. No one needs a defense against love. Did the Prodigal Son need to defend himself to his father? Is God blinded by blood over unrighteousness, or is he still supremely cognizant of who we are deep down--and loves us? Does God want everyone to be the best version of him/herself?

'Attitude' is not a boastful remark. 'Attitude' is presumption of the highest order.

I take exception to one of your statements.

Leviticus 17:

11 For the life of the flesh is in the blood: and I have given it to you upon the altar to make an atonement for your souls: for it is the blood that maketh an atonement for the soul.

Hebrews 9:

22 And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission.

26 For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.

27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:

28 So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.

I mean, are you trying to be serious about that?

 

[Meriweather]

No one will have an entitled attitude when they are before God. No one will be able to proclaim their own holiness, no matter how long they've been in Purgatory.

That has nothing to do with anything. The difference between the Catholic faith and some Protestant faiths has to do with punishment for sin.

 

[Meriweather]

I mean, are you trying to be serious about that?

What I mean is that the focus on punishment is a tiny speck in the bigger picture.

 

[hadit]

What I mean is that the focus on punishment is a tiny speck in the bigger picture.

You explicitly said, "Blood sacrifice wasn't ever a requirement for having sins forgiven." You cannot be a serious student of Scripture to ever make that statement.

 

[hadit]

That has nothing to do with anything. The difference between the Catholic faith and some Protestant faiths has to do with punishment for sin.

The wages of sin is death. Under the old covenant, blood was shed for forgiveness of sin, but had to be shed again and again. Under the new covenant, blood was shed once.

I don't think we need to play games with this sin is worse than that sin when it's simple, sin means death, Christ's blood means life. We can't do anything on our own to atone for sin, that comes only from Him.

 

[hobelim]

Compare this to, "Thy kingdom come, thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven."

The will of God on earth, as it is in heaven, is to condemn tyrannical and sadistic narcissists, whether religious or secular, represented by the talking serpent in the fairy tale, a despicable and contemptible human archetype, a 'beguiling' con man, from the highest to the lowest place in society, "Lower than cattle and all of the wild beasts of the field." Gods view on types of people.

See Genesis 3:14


Donald Trump, 2005: “I’m automatically attracted to beautiful — I just start kissing them. It’s like a magnet. Just kiss. I don’t even wait. When you’re a star, they let you do it. You can do anything. Grab ’em by the pussy. You can do anything.”

During the campaign, he appeared to insult then-competitor Carly Fiorina, saying in an interview with Rolling Stone, "Look at that face! Would anyone vote for that? Can you imagine that, the face of our next president?!"

 

[hobelim]

11 For the life of the flesh is in the blood: and I have given it to you upon the altar to make an atonement for your souls: for it is the blood that maketh an atonement for the soul.

Jesus said "Unless you eat my flesh and drink my blood you can have no life in you", life being the promise for complying with the will of God as clearly defined in the Divine commands.

"Eat my flesh" means to receive his teaching from God about the figurative nature of the words and hidden subjects in the Law, "drink my blood" means to do it, fulfill the law in the same exact way that Jesus fulfilled the law to receive the eternal life that he demonstrated having on earth.

Life is in the blood, in the doing....No one can do it for you, make an atonement for your own soul.

Not even Jesus....

 

[The Irish Ram]

Blood sacrifice wasn't ever a requirement for having sins forgiven

It started in Genesis with the first two humans. After they sinned, God sacrificed an animal and covered Adam and Eve with it's hide.

 

[hobelim]

It started in Genesis with the first two humans.

You should include in your speculations that when the children of Adam and Eve wanted to find a mate, they went to a city. What does that tell you? If you don't believe me, read the whole story...

Damn.

 

[Meriweather]

I mean, are you trying to be serious about that?

Hebrew 9 is speaking of Covenants.
Leviticus says fine flour is also permitted as a sin offering.

 

[Meriweather]

You explicitly said, "Blood sacrifice wasn't ever a requirement for having sins forgiven." You cannot be a serious student of Scripture to ever make that statement.

And it's not. Read Leviticus.

 

[Meriweather]

We can't do anything on our own to atone for sin, that comes only from Him.

What part does the person of faith play in the New Covenant? We give up sin, turning away from it.

 

[Meriweather]

God sacrificed

Not phrased that way...

 

[The Irish Ram]

Not phrased that way...

God turns His back to sin. He remained with Adam and Eve outside of the Garden. In order to do that He had to cover their sin.

 

[Libby von H]

Thing is, when we accept Christ in our lives, and receive the Holy Spirit, our name is written in the Book of Life. If our current behavior effects our redemption, He would have to have angels sitting there erasing our names, then writing them back in and then erasing, then...
Redemption is a gift.

You left out the, "then you are saved" part when you quoted Romans 10:9-11. Christ said to believe that, because He said it, so, I believe it. And He put a period at the end of that sentence. Churches remove the period and hand us a list.
Christ makes it easy on purpose:
Matt. 11:28-30 “Come to me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you and learn from me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. For my yoke is easy and my burden is light.

And not meaning to offend, but isn't praying in rote giving God lip service?

Then saying "I love you" to your spouse a million times over the course of a marriage is to.
You can say ANYTHING by rote or by attentive feeling.

 

[Libby von H]

Blood over unrighteousness. Boasting. Offering a defense.

Blood sacrifice wasn't ever a requirement for having sins forgiven. Blood was required when establishing a covenant. During the Last Supper, Jesus took the chalice saying, "This is my blood of the covenant, which will be shed on behalf of many..." Throughout his ministry Jesus proclaimed repentance for the forgiveness of sins, and the leaders of his day kept demanding by whose authority did he say such a thing.

The New Covenant (also called Testament) was ratified by Jesus' own blood. There is a difference between a people under a new covenant with God, and a people who believe it was all about punishment--that they deserved to be punished, so God punished Jesus.

The better question to ask oneself when appearing at the Gates of Heaven: "Did/do I love God as much as he deserves?" God loves us and always has. No one needs a defense against love. Did the Prodigal Son need to defend himself to his father? Is God blinded by blood over unrighteousness, or is he still supremely cognizant of who we are deep down--and loves us? Does God want everyone to be the best version of him/herself?

'Attitude' is not a boastful remark. 'Attitude' is presumption of the highest order.

Except that makes Heaven into a Fun Park and God is just the person you have to get past.

The Bible teaches THE OPPOSITE of what you say
" without holiness no one will see the Lord. "

IT is this way with Heaven , Hell, and esp Purgatory

"—it is fearful, but it is right to say it;—that if we wished to imagine a punishment for an unholy, reprobate soul, we perhaps could not fancy a greater than to summon it to heaven. Heaven would be hell to an irreligious man. We know how unhappy we are apt to feel at present, when alone in the midst of strangers, or of men of different tastes and habits from ourselves. How miserable, for example, would it be to have to live in a foreign land, among a people whose faces we never saw before, and whose language we could not learn. And this is but a faint illustration of the loneliness of a man of earthly dispositions and tastes, thrust into the society of saints and angels. How forlorn would he wander through the courts of heaven! He would find no one like himself; he would see in every direction the marks {8} of God's holiness, and these would make him shudder. He would feel himself always in His presence. He could no longer turn his thoughts another way, as he does now, when conscience reproaches him. He would know that the Eternal Eye was ever upon him; and that Eye of holiness, which is joy and life to holy creatures, would seem to him an Eye of wrath and punishment. God cannot change His nature. Holy He must ever be. But while He is holy, no unholy soul can be happy in heaven."

You treat religion like magic, and many unbelievers will be further scandalized by your view of Jesus zapping Nazis and other beasts into holiness

JAMES 3:1
Not many of you should become teachers, my fellow believers, because you know that we who teach will be judged more strictly.

 

[Meriweather]

You treat religion like magic, and many unbelievers will be further scandalized by your view of Jesus zapping Nazis and other beasts into holiness

Bold mine. Not what I said, nor anything close to what I believe.

 

[The Irish Ram]

Then saying "I love you" to your spouse a million times over the course of a marriage is to.
You can say ANYTHING by rote or by attentive feeling.

We are discussing prayer.

Matthew 6:7 But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking.

If you want to save time, or you're in a hurry, you can recite the Lord's prayer in about 5 seconds if you think that's what God wants to hear from you...