A message from a veteran about firearms in this country

[kaz]

You're delusional, Gonzo.

And what you haven't provided is a plan. All gun laws do is keep guns from legal owners. What's your plan to keep them out of the hands of criminals? I started a thread on that, and so far the anti-gun libbies haven't come up with an idea. But my premise is a high school kid can get all the drugs they want, what prevents a criminal from buying a gun from the same people who massively import drugs? I'd love to hear your plan

Keeping guns from criminals - liberals, what is your plan?

My plan is this.

Withdraw all our troops from the Middle East, South Korea, Japan, Germany, etc. The cold war is over, we are not the world police.

Cut our military budget in half. Use that money to pay for a mandatory buyback of all assault rifles and handguns in this country, and create a licensing process and registry of all other firearms.

Then use the full might of our military to find and destroy all remaining handguns and assault rifles, and punish those who possess them.

You do know that the vast majority of military folk will not back the federal government against its own citizens? The vast majority of my customers are military, police and fire.

Then why do so many gun nuts think they need guns to fight the government?

The military will never stand behind career politicians and their federal government, they actually have a soul and a spine unlike career politicians and their progressive lemmings. Lol

I am an Army veteran, so I know what I am talking about. If our commander in chief gave us an order, any order, we would be required to carry it out based off our oath of enlistment to follow all orders from those above us

Again showing you were never in the ... American ... military. You're full of shit. The military would either ignore such an order or at worst be split. But if you actually were ever in the military you would know that the order to go Gestapo on the American people would be a complete belly flop. The military overwhelmingly firmly believe they are protecting their country

 

[westwall]

More guns, more crime: New research debunks a central thesis of the gun rights movement

No, States with many, many more firearms than people are the safest states to live in… Fact

Saying the word "fact" doesn't make your lies true

It's true, in the northern plains states violent crime using firearms is almost nonexistent… Fact

Where there are hardly any people?

And yet, the PER CAPITA gun crime rate is still HIGHER than in the big cities

No it isn't. It's not even close.

 

[Rustic]

More guns, more crime: New research debunks a central thesis of the gun rights movement

No, States with many, many more firearms than people are the safest states to live in… Fact

Saying the word "fact" doesn't make your lies true

It's true, in the northern plains states violent crime using firearms is almost nonexistent… Fact

Where there are hardly any people?

And yet, the PER CAPITA gun crime rate is still HIGHER than in the big cities

Yet You can't seem to grasp the facts there are many, many more firearms than people in these rural areas and they have far less violent crime… fact
Gun control obviously does not work in these high population areas, so it definitely would not work in low population areas. More gun control laws is just a waste of time, money and resources… It's a non-issue… Fact

 

[The Sage of Main Street]

There is not now, nor has there ever been, anything "metaphorical" about the Constitution. It was the framework around which the nation was formed and serves as the supreme law that governs the government (ie "ruling class). It is designed to make the average citizen the actual ruling class and gun rights are there to enforce and defend the Constitution (not the government) .

Sheep Goosestepping Behind Chickenhawks

If you say so, faithfully repeating your Masters' fairy tales. You are a mind slave of the very ruling class that tells you that a document controlled by their own interpretations of it protects you from them.

No dumbass, it's what protects them form me right up until they try to be my master in more just their deluded dreams.
Who left the gate open and let all the communists out? I'm a Vietnam vet. I know interesting ways to deal with communists.

Epitaph on the Wall: PROUD TO DIE TAKING A RICH KID'S PLACE

All your Right Wing chickenhawk heroes had rich Daddies who got them to weasel out of serving in Vietnam. Real patriots would have formed up armed at prep-school graduations and marched the spoiled brats right over to the active-duty Induction Station. I don't care if you got a Medal of Honor in Vietnam; if you supported Dubya's privilege to get out of having to fight there, YOU HAVE NO HONOR.

We don't need a ruling class like the Clintons.

What we need is a system where if you don't pay the bills you don't get to make the rules.

Sound fair?

Would that include Trump? He hasn't paid any of the bills (taxes) in a very long time. If what you say is the way it should be, then why is Trump trying to be president?

He didn't owe any taxes. Whether it makes sense or not, the IRS offers compensations for risk-takers so they will continue to invest after bumps in the road. The government also figures he provided taxable incomes for others when he spent billions on those projects.

 

[Brain357]

More guns, more crime: New research debunks a central thesis of the gun rights movement

No, States with many, many more firearms than people are the safest states to live in… Fact

Saying the word "fact" doesn't make your lies true

It's true, in the northern plains states violent crime using firearms is almost nonexistent… Fact

Where there are hardly any people?

Bingo!!!! firearms do not kill people people do… Fact

People can't kill people if there are no people around to kill. Fact.

 

[Flash]

He didn't owe any taxes. Whether it makes sense or not, the IRS offers compensations for risk-takers so they will continue to invest after bumps in the road. The government also figures he provided taxable incomes for others when he spent billions on those projects.

These greedy Moon Bats thinks that people that don't have a tax liability should go ahead and pay money to the government anyhow, except that doesn't apply to themselves.

 

[The Sage of Main Street]

Epitaph on the Wall: PROUD TO DIE TAKING A RICH KID'S PLACE

All your Right Wing chickenhawk heroes had rich Daddies who got them to weasel out of serving in Vietnam. Real patriots would have formed up armed at prep-school graduations and marched the spoiled brats right over to the active-duty Induction Station. I don't care if you got a Medal of Honor in Vietnam; if you supported Dubya's privilege to get out of having to fight there, YOU HAVE NO HONOR.

Disagreed. OTOH, IIRC, you served yourself. Would you please share your service record? Even a brief one?

In fairness, mine is Marine Corps 1975-1985, Navy 1985-1991, Naval Reserve 1991-1997. Retired Navy, still a Marine.

Anyone Born With a Silver Spoon in His Mouth Will Always Speak With a Forked Tongue

Six month of heavy combat in Vietnam, 1966-1967, machinegunner MOS (0331) H/2/5 Marines. Thirty-eight of the 150 Marines in my company (never T/O) died in my half-tour out in the bush. Except your precious sissyboy Bush was never out in the bush, was he? If you don't have a problem with birth privileges, you don't know what this country originally stood for.

 

[2aguy]

More guns, more crime: New research debunks a central thesis of the gun rights movement

No, States with many, many more firearms than people are the safest states to live in… Fact

Saying the word "fact" doesn't make your lies true

It's true, in the northern plains states violent crime using firearms is almost nonexistent… Fact

Where there are hardly any people?

And yet, the PER CAPITA gun crime rate is still HIGHER than in the big cities

Where they have the most gun control.......

 

[ChairmanGonzalo]

No, States with many, many more firearms than people are the safest states to live in… Fact

Saying the word "fact" doesn't make your lies true

It's true, in the northern plains states violent crime using firearms is almost nonexistent… Fact

Where there are hardly any people?

And yet, the PER CAPITA gun crime rate is still HIGHER than in the big cities

Where they have the most gun control.......

Yes. I am saying that the gun loving states you talk about having a higher per capita gun death rate than cities with strict gun control

 

[The Sage of Main Street]

What? I didn't say only organized militias could have guns.

I think you need to go read what I wrote.

Did. You said there was no mention of an individual's right to have guns, and opinion that gets tossed out there by ieftists even since the news said Justice Bryer put it in his descent when the court opinion came down in favor of the 2nd and in devi duel rights to own guns. You need to go back and read what you said because you implied that only organized militaso are allowed to have guns, when nothing of the sort is in the 2nd. At best, it says milita and individuals are covered. You implied there is no individual right to own fire arms.

Can you point out to me where I said there i no mention of an individual's right to have guns?

I mean, I was talking about the right to BEAR ARMS. The right to have a gun is the right to KEEP arms. I mean, you're talking about something completely different for some unknown reason.

So, again, READ WHAT I WROTE>

You said this,

You- "The right to bear arms is the right of INDIVIDUALS to be in the militia. It's simple, the founding fathers said it loads of times and the right and left have ignored millions of times."

The second amendment says nothing of the sort.

Yes it does. It says "the right to bear arms".

As I've already shown. The founding fathers used "bear arms" synonymously with "render military service" and "militia duty".

Amendment II: House of Representatives, Amendments to the Constitution

It's here. This is the meaning of "bear arms".

dont what you are trying to prove

bear arms according to the second is the right of the people

Repeal Judicial Review Before We Are All Disarmed

Hillary's SCROTUS appointees will say that you can keep your arms in the National Guard armory and bear them when your unit is activated.

 

[2aguy]

Saying the word "fact" doesn't make your lies true

It's true, in the northern plains states violent crime using firearms is almost nonexistent… Fact

Where there are hardly any people?

And yet, the PER CAPITA gun crime rate is still HIGHER than in the big cities

Where they have the most gun control.......

Yes. I am saying that the gun loving states you talk about having a higher per capita gun death rate than cities with strict gun control

Wrong.....doesn't work that way......they throw in gun suicides to get those numbers higher, and even then it doesn't work out....

 

[westwall]

Epitaph on the Wall: PROUD TO DIE TAKING A RICH KID'S PLACE

All your Right Wing chickenhawk heroes had rich Daddies who got them to weasel out of serving in Vietnam. Real patriots would have formed up armed at prep-school graduations and marched the spoiled brats right over to the active-duty Induction Station. I don't care if you got a Medal of Honor in Vietnam; if you supported Dubya's privilege to get out of having to fight there, YOU HAVE NO HONOR.

Disagreed. OTOH, IIRC, you served yourself. Would you please share your service record? Even a brief one?

In fairness, mine is Marine Corps 1975-1985, Navy 1985-1991, Naval Reserve 1991-1997. Retired Navy, still a Marine.

Anyone Born With a Silver Spoon in His Mouth Will Always Speak With a Forked Tongue

Six month of heavy combat in Vietnam, 1966-1967, machinegunner MOS (0331) H/2/5 Marines. Thirty-eight of the 150 Marines in my company (never T/O) died in my half-tour out in the bush. Except your precious sissyboy Bush was never out in the bush, was he? If you don't have a problem with birth privileges, you don't know what this country originally stood for.

It is true that bush didn't fly in combat. However the aircraft he flew was a notorious for killing it's pilots. IIRC the death rate was around 15%, and the first twelve pilots to attempt ejection were killed. The ejection seat was a major problem for several years. So, yes, while bushie didn't fight overseas, he did take significant risks flying the 106.

 

[frigidweirdo]

dont what you are trying to prove

bear arms according to the second is the right of the people

Agreed about a right of the people. We're seeing the concerns some Founders had about even writing a Bill of Rights into the Constitution come to fruition. The LW meme is that our rights come from the Constitution and, in their opinion, by rewriting the Constitution they can rewrite our inalienable rights.

As for what frigidweirdo and other anti-gunners are trying to prove is that the Second Amendment means only a "militia" has a right to have guns. Since the "militia", in their opinion, is the National Guard, there is no need for private ownership of firearms. This is a tacit admission on their part of their larger goal; banning and confiscation of privately owned firearms.

Oh come off it. I've never said that a militia has a right to have guns. In fact when I came onto this thread what did I say?

No, there is no collective right. You don't understand what you're reading.

The right to bear arms is the right of INDIVIDUALS to be in the militia. It's simple, the founding fathers said it loads of times and the right and left have ignored millions of times.

How the hell does this happen, that someone comes on and writes "INDIVIDUALS" and "there is no collective right" and gets told repeatedly by different people that I'm in favor of a collective view of Amendment.

As I said before, the right to bear arms is the right TO BE IN THE MILITIA. The right to keep arms is the right to own weapons.

This protects the militia. You need people to shoot the guns when you're in the militia, and you need guns for the people to shoot. That's why the Amendment talks about the militia. If you read what the founding father said:

"Whenever Governments mean to invade the rights and liberties of the people, they always attempt to destroy the militia, in order to raise an army upon their ruins."

So, they were talking about securing the militia. Not about protecting some right to walk around with a gun in your ass.

 

[frigidweirdo]

Actually you need guns to give yourself the siege mentality that so many people love. The govt is after you, always after you, so you need your guns to fight those demons in your head.

Don't come after your rights, go after the rights of gay people, women, black people, Muslims, anyone but you, right?

Incorrect. It appears all you need are pressure cookers and a few household chemicals. When do you people plan on banning those?

Well, many of those people don't have the ability to figure out how to make those weapons. Guns are good, they come ready made.

The Internet is much more deadly then guns. Ask Hillery.

Well that would depend on how it is used. But the internet is something that can incite, the guns are the things that do the direct killing.

 

[frigidweirdo]

Well, many of those people don't have the ability to figure out how to make those weapons. Guns are good, they come ready made.

Sorry, dude, but that info is on the Internet. The truth is that most people have no desire to make those weapons just like most gun-owners have no desire to kill anyone except in self-defense.

It is. Then again I tell someone "the 2A is an individual right" and the response back is "why would you say the 2A isn't an individual right?" sort of thing. Some people just ain't bright enough to be able to read, let alone follow instructions.

Forgetting for a moment that the Constitution doesn't grant rights and going with your logic that it does, are you saying the First Amendment isn't an individual right? That you, personally, don't have freedom of speech, freedom of religion or freedom of association?

Should you have to register your computer or typewriter with the Federal government? Obtain a permit to start a religion (not talking about tax exemptions) or starting a book club in your home?

Holy crap dude, you're making up lots of shit about me that simply isn't true. I'm getting fed up with your fucking nonsense.

 

[frigidweirdo]

Did. You said there was no mention of an individual's right to have guns, and opinion that gets tossed out there by ieftists even since the news said Justice Bryer put it in his descent when the court opinion came down in favor of the 2nd and in devi duel rights to own guns. You need to go back and read what you said because you implied that only organized militaso are allowed to have guns, when nothing of the sort is in the 2nd. At best, it says milita and individuals are covered. You implied there is no individual right to own fire arms.

Can you point out to me where I said there i no mention of an individual's right to have guns?

I mean, I was talking about the right to BEAR ARMS. The right to have a gun is the right to KEEP arms. I mean, you're talking about something completely different for some unknown reason.

So, again, READ WHAT I WROTE>

You said this,

You- "The right to bear arms is the right of INDIVIDUALS to be in the militia. It's simple, the founding fathers said it loads of times and the right and left have ignored millions of times."

The second amendment says nothing of the sort.

Yes it does. It says "the right to bear arms".

As I've already shown. The founding fathers used "bear arms" synonymously with "render military service" and "militia duty".

Amendment II: House of Representatives, Amendments to the Constitution

It's here. This is the meaning of "bear arms".

dont what you are trying to prove

bear arms according to the second is the right of the people

Repeal Judicial Review Before We Are All Disarmed

Hillary's SCROTUS appointees will say that you can keep your arms in the National Guard armory and bear them when your unit is activated.

Then who interprets the constitution if not the Supreme Court?

 

[2aguy]

Can you point out to me where I said there i no mention of an individual's right to have guns?

I mean, I was talking about the right to BEAR ARMS. The right to have a gun is the right to KEEP arms. I mean, you're talking about something completely different for some unknown reason.

So, again, READ WHAT I WROTE>

You said this,

You- "The right to bear arms is the right of INDIVIDUALS to be in the militia. It's simple, the founding fathers said it loads of times and the right and left have ignored millions of times."

The second amendment says nothing of the sort.

Yes it does. It says "the right to bear arms".

As I've already shown. The founding fathers used "bear arms" synonymously with "render military service" and "militia duty".

Amendment II: House of Representatives, Amendments to the Constitution

It's here. This is the meaning of "bear arms".

dont what you are trying to prove

bear arms according to the second is the right of the people

Repeal Judicial Review Before We Are All Disarmed

Hillary's SCROTUS appointees will say that you can keep your arms in the National Guard armory and bear them when your unit is activated.

Then who interprets the constitution if not the Supreme Court?

The House of Representatives for one......vs. 9 unelected, politically appointed lawyers.......

 

[jon_berzerk]

Can you point out to me where I said there i no mention of an individual's right to have guns?

I mean, I was talking about the right to BEAR ARMS. The right to have a gun is the right to KEEP arms. I mean, you're talking about something completely different for some unknown reason.

So, again, READ WHAT I WROTE>

You said this,

You- "The right to bear arms is the right of INDIVIDUALS to be in the militia. It's simple, the founding fathers said it loads of times and the right and left have ignored millions of times."

The second amendment says nothing of the sort.

Yes it does. It says "the right to bear arms".

As I've already shown. The founding fathers used "bear arms" synonymously with "render military service" and "militia duty".

Amendment II: House of Representatives, Amendments to the Constitution

It's here. This is the meaning of "bear arms".

dont what you are trying to prove

bear arms according to the second is the right of the people

Repeal Judicial Review Before We Are All Disarmed

Hillary's SCROTUS appointees will say that you can keep your arms in the National Guard armory and bear them when your unit is activated.

Then who interprets the constitution if not the Supreme Court?

the SC ruled that the right to keep and bear arms is an individual right not a militia right

 

[2aguy]

You said this,

You- "The right to bear arms is the right of INDIVIDUALS to be in the militia. It's simple, the founding fathers said it loads of times and the right and left have ignored millions of times."

The second amendment says nothing of the sort.

Yes it does. It says "the right to bear arms".

As I've already shown. The founding fathers used "bear arms" synonymously with "render military service" and "militia duty".

Amendment II: House of Representatives, Amendments to the Constitution

It's here. This is the meaning of "bear arms".

dont what you are trying to prove

bear arms according to the second is the right of the people

Repeal Judicial Review Before We Are All Disarmed

Hillary's SCROTUS appointees will say that you can keep your arms in the National Guard armory and bear them when your unit is activated.

Then who interprets the constitution if not the Supreme Court?

the SC ruled that the right to keep and bear arms is an individual right not a militia right

That will last up to hilary's first appointment if she gets in....Legal Precedent does not exist with left wing justices......the right to bear arms will be gone........

 

[jon_berzerk]

Yes it does. It says "the right to bear arms".

As I've already shown. The founding fathers used "bear arms" synonymously with "render military service" and "militia duty".

Amendment II: House of Representatives, Amendments to the Constitution

It's here. This is the meaning of "bear arms".

dont what you are trying to prove

bear arms according to the second is the right of the people

Repeal Judicial Review Before We Are All Disarmed

Hillary's SCROTUS appointees will say that you can keep your arms in the National Guard armory and bear them when your unit is activated.

Then who interprets the constitution if not the Supreme Court?

the SC ruled that the right to keep and bear arms is an individual right not a militia right

That will last up to hilary's first appointment if she gets in....Legal Precedent does not exist with left wing justices......the right to bear arms will be gone........

no it wont

the right exists with or without the paper according to the founding fathers