A Political Irony

[TemplarKormac]

As you are all no doubt aware, in a statement today by John Kerry, it appears that the US is considering going to war with Syria over it's "undeniable" use of chemical weapons against the people. As of now, at least 100,000 people have died at the hands of Bashar al Assad. But I must digress.

It was 10 years ago this past March when President George W. Bush set Operation Shock and Awe into motion against Iraq over suspected ties to al Qaeda, and possible possession of WMD. Not only did he invade, he was razed and accosted for doing it, and he continues to be attacked and criticized for starting that war as well as in Afghanistan to this very day by the left wing.

The irony? After the invasion of Iraq in 2003, Republicans were swept in the 2006 mid-term elections. So, if Obama were to order a strike on Syria, one could surmise that the very same political implications would take place, of such would be wide-ranging, including a further loss of credibility on Obama's part, plus devastating losses by Democrats in the 2014 mid-terms. Not only did Obama invade Libya by sea, he attacked Yemen with drones. Now he wants to invade Syria?

It leads me to ask, who is the warmonger in chief now, liberals? Don't you find this to be the least bit ironic? Where are all of the anti-war Democrats now? Is it only okay if Obama does it?

Whatever the case reasoning may be, the political ironies and parallels are striking.

 

[TheOldSchool]

Fuck Obama forever if he starts a war in Syria that results in thousands of American casualties.

I don't think he'll do it. But if he does I'll rank him right there with Bush as an embarrassing, shameful President.

 

[auditor0007]

As you are all no doubt aware, in a statement today by John Kerry, it appears that the US is considering going to war with Syria over it's "undeniable" use of chemical weapons against the people. As of now, at least 100,000 people have died at the hands of Bashar al Assad. But I must digress.

It was 10 years ago this past March when President George W. Bush set Operation Shock and Awe into motion against Iraq over suspected ties to al Qaeda, and possible possession of WMD. Not only did he invade, he was razed and accosted for doing it, and he continues to be attacked and criticized for starting that war as well as in Afghanistan to this very day by the left wing.

The irony? After the invasion of Iraq in 2003, Republicans were swept in the 2006 mid-term elections. So, if Obama were to order a strike on Syria, one could surmise that the very same political implications would take place, of such would be wide-ranging, including a further loss of credibility on Obama's part, plus devastating losses by Democrats in the 2014 mid-terms. Not only did Obama invade Libya by sea, he attacked Yemen with drones. Now he wants to invade Syria?

It leads me to ask, who is the warmonger in chief now, liberals? Don't you find this to be the least bit ironic? Where are all of the anti-war Democrats now? Is it onlgokay if Obama does it?

Whatever the case reasoning may be, the political ironies and parallels are striking.

While the circumstances are similar, there is one big difference. No WMD were found in Iraq. That is why there was such a backlash. There is solid evidence that Assad's regime has used chemical weapons, so we have actual evidence. That still does not mean we should start a war. It really isn't our fight. If anything, I might consider supporting a joint mission with the full backing of other countries to bring down the Assad regime, but I'm not convinced we gain anything by doing so. Assad is going to fall sooner or later. His days are numbered. I imagine he and his family will be executed in short order when the military finally turns on him.

 

[aaronleland]

I personally don't care if there are chemical weapons being used. Let Syria fight their own war. How many more decades do we have to intervene in the Middle East before Americans realize it never turns out well? Fuck Obama, and anybody who truly thought he was any different than Bush. While I'm at it, fuck anybody who thought Romney would be any different than the two of them as well.

 

[Saigon]

Fuck Obama forever if he starts a war in Syria that results in thousands of American casualties.

How many US casualties were there in Libya?

The thing people need to keep in mind is that the US did not start the Arab spring. The people of Egypt, Tunisia etc did it themselves...in some cases they needed help.

Although the OP might find the parallels to the US invasion of Iraq ironic - Iraq was not halfway through a revolution when the US stepped in.

 

[OriginalShroom]

Regardless,

Obama has gotten the U.S. involved into wars which there was no threat to the U.S. without Congressional approval, even to the point of officially notifying Congress that he was ordering troops while he was vacationing in Brazil.

Syria is an internal problem. We need to stay out of it.

 

[Saigon]

Regardless,

Obama has gotten the U.S. involved into wars which there was no threat to the U.S. without Congressional approval, even to the point of officially notifying Congress that he was ordering troops while he was vacationing in Brazil.

Syria is an internal problem. We need to stay out of it.

Was there a threat to the US in Grenada?

How about in Somalia? Viet Nam? Korea? Lebanon? Iraq? Nicaragua?

I'm not entirely disagreeing with you here, but a threat to the US has NEVER been a major factor in US military actions.

 

[TheOldSchool]

The thing people need to keep in mind is that the US did not start the Arab spring. The people of Egypt, Tunisia etc did it themselves...in some cases they needed help.

Let them finish it. We don't need to be helping people who are champing at the bit to be the next ones who attack America. Why won't any other countries step up to help the middle east? No one seems to care that they're not doing anything.

 

[get_involved]

While it's a terrible situation we should NOT send any troops. NO American should die defending another country.

If think otherwise would YOU be willing to die or have your son or daughter die over there?

 

[Saigon]

The thing people need to keep in mind is that the US did not start the Arab spring. The people of Egypt, Tunisia etc did it themselves...in some cases they needed help.

Let them finish it. We don't need to be helping people who are champing at the bit to be the next ones who attack America. Why won't any other countries step up to help the middle east? No one seems to care that they're not doing anything.

Um....what?

From the beginning of the intervention, the initial coalition of Belgium, Canada, Denmark, France, Italy, Norway, Qatar, Spain, UK and US[ expanded to nineteen states, with newer states mostly enforcing the no-fly zone and naval blockade or providing military logistical assistance.

2011 military intervention in Libya - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[TheOldSchool]

The thing people need to keep in mind is that the US did not start the Arab spring. The people of Egypt, Tunisia etc did it themselves...in some cases they needed help.

Let them finish it. We don't need to be helping people who are champing at the bit to be the next ones who attack America. Why won't any other countries step up to help the middle east? No one seems to care that they're not doing anything.

Um....what?

From the beginning of the intervention, the initial coalition of Belgium, Canada, Denmark, France, Italy, Norway, Qatar, Spain, UK and US[ expanded to nineteen states, with newer states mostly enforcing the no-fly zone and naval blockade or providing military logistical assistance.

2011 military intervention in Libya - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Maybe one of those countries can provide infantry troops and cruise missiles. And we can go ahead and "contribute" with a no fly zone.

 

[Saigon]

OldSchool -

How many US infantry were on the ground in Libya? Tunisia? Bahrain? Yemen?

 

[TheOldSchool]

OldSchool -

How many US infantry were on the ground in Libya? Tunisia? Bahrain? Yemen?

The perfect amount.

 

[Saigon]

Old School -

Given 19 countries were involved in the Libya attacks, and given that not a single US infantryman served in Libya - what exactly is it that you are whining about?

 

[TheOldSchool]

Old School -

Given 19 countries were involved in the Libya attacks, and given that not a single US infantryman served in Libya - what exactly is it that you are whining about?

I want us to AT MOST be as involved in Syria as we were in Libya. Hopefully much less.

 

[auditor0007]

Regardless,

Obama has gotten the U.S. involved into wars which there was no threat to the U.S. without Congressional approval, even to the point of officially notifying Congress that he was ordering troops while he was vacationing in Brazil.

Syria is an internal problem. We need to stay out of it.

Correction: Obama has gotten us out of one war, Iraq, and is in the process of getting us out of Afghanistan. Obama has not gotten us into any wars period. Get your information straight.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

Regardless,

Obama has gotten the U.S. involved into wars which there was no threat to the U.S. without Congressional approval, even to the point of officially notifying Congress that he was ordering troops while he was vacationing in Brazil.

Syria is an internal problem. We need to stay out of it.

As correctly noted, Obama hasn’t ‘gotten us’ into any wars.

And Congress foolishly abdicated its authority to declare war with the WPA decades ago.

 

[TemplarKormac]

Fuck Obama forever if he starts a war in Syria that results in thousands of American casualties.

I don't think he'll do it. But if he does I'll rank him right there with Bush as an embarrassing, shameful President.

Even after he attacked Libya? Struck terrorists with drones in Yemen? He let more soldiers die in Iraq after promising to end the war during his first term, and the Afghan War has been going on for almost 12 years now, with 5 of it occurring under his watch! Shouldn't you already be hating him?

 

[TemplarKormac]

Regardless,

Obama has gotten the U.S. involved into wars which there was no threat to the U.S. without Congressional approval, even to the point of officially notifying Congress that he was ordering troops while he was vacationing in Brazil.

Syria is an internal problem. We need to stay out of it.

Correction: Obama has gotten us out of one war, Iraq, and is in the process of getting us out of Afghanistan. Obama has not gotten us into any wars period. Get your information straight.

Correction: any hostile action taken against or within a foreign nation is an act of war. Bombarding Tripoli with Tomahawk missiles is an act of war, performing drone strikes in a foreign country, killing terrorists in a country such as Yemen is an act of war. Any time you do anything hostile within another sovereign nation's borders without consent, you are committing an act of war.

I know information is a hard thing to come by, but it isn't impossible to do research:

18 USC § 1331 (4)

(4) the term “act of war” means any act occurring in the course of—

(A) declared war;

(B) armed conflict, whether or not war has been declared, between two or more nations; or

(C) armed conflict between military forces of any origin

 

[Saigon]

TK -

Being purely objective, how would you say Obama's record of getting US troops out of the Middle East quagmires compares with that of Bush?