Zone1 A Question For Pro-Choicers

[ding]

Sounds unnecessarily messy to live through.

Life is messy. You see it as unnecessary because you can't understand that that's how evolution works. Where you see despair, I see opportunity. Existential nihilism is inherently atheist.

 

[ding]

I think I'd prefer a continuous process of incremental improvement, at least somewhat easier than our ammendment system.

Most changes - improvement or otherwise - usually are a gradual process of incremental change. So what you are really bemoaning is that these changes aren't always what you think they should be. So does the problem lie with the change - which has no choice in being what it is - or does the problem lie with you, who has a preference for an outcome and become dissatisfied when the change doesn't match your preference?

 

[ding]

I'm also done with the EC.

But is the EC done with you?

 

[alang1216]

Life is messy. You see it as unnecessary because you can't understand that that's how evolution works. Where you see despair, I see opportunity. Existential nihilism is inherently atheist.

No, evolution is inherently atheist. I understand how it works I just want a better, more humane, system. If there is one. It would have been wonderful if religion offered one but it has not so far.

 

[alang1216]

Most changes - improvement or otherwise - usually are a gradual process of incremental change. So what you are really bemoaning is that these changes aren't always what you think they should be. So does the problem lie with the change - which has no choice in being what it is - or does the problem lie with you, who has a preference for an outcome and become dissatisfied when the change doesn't match your preference?

When systems cannot change quickly enough they break. I don't want to live through a revolution of the right or left.

 

[alang1216]

But is the EC done with you?

Not yet. Sadly.

 

[peacefan]

If babies aren't alive in the womb then how does abortion exist? After all, how can you kill somebody who was never alive in the first place?

imo, babies are alive in the womb.
and yes, they can feel pain.

but abortions happen with anesthetics, so an abortion might be a better option than to raise a child in knowingly bad conditions.
i'm pro-choice. the baby's mother knows best what to do with a pregnancy.

that said, if you're gonna enable abortions, the government should also improve government-run child-care.

 

[ding]

No, evolution is inherently atheist. I understand how it works I just want a better, more humane, system. If there is one.

Actually evolution has nothing to do with atheism. Existential nihilism is inherently atheist though.

It's your nihilism that is keeping you from being able to be objective about what you see. You expect utopia; perfection. No wonder you are disappointed. Life is messy. Maybe get a helmet.

 

[ding]

It would have been wonderful if religion offered one but it has not so far.

More than likely you would find something else to complain about it. Again... life is messy. It doesn't move in a straight line. Lot's of ups and downs. But eventually it gets to where it needs to get in part because of all the ups and downs.

 

[ding]

When systems cannot change quickly enough they break. I don't want to live through a revolution of the right or left.

There is a cycle. It exists for logical reasons. You may prefer it not be this way but it will be what it will be. Over the course of a long human life one can expect to experience at least one major societal upheaval. Feel free to blame God and religion if you think it will make you feel better, but it is doubtful that that will change anything.

 

[ding]

Not yet. Sadly.

The beatings will continue until morale improves.

 

[ding]

I just want a better, more humane, system.

I don't want to live through a revolution of the right or left.

Do you believe those are statements that a pragmatist would make?

Or would a pragmatist say...

Life is messy?
Life is full of ups and downs?
Life doesn't move in a straight line?
Life will be what it will be despite wishes for it to be otherwise?

 

[alang1216]

Actually evolution has nothing to do with atheism. Existential nihilism is inherently atheist though.

Evolution is the very definition of atheism, without God.

It's your nihilism that is keeping you from being able to be objective about what you see. You expect utopia; perfection. No wonder you are disappointed. Life is messy. Maybe get a helmet.

I get it, life is messy. I won't apologize for wanting to make it better.

 

[alang1216]

More than likely you would find something else to complain about it. Again... life is messy. It doesn't move in a straight line. Lot's of ups and downs.

It's nice to have goals and not blindly accept fate.

But eventually it gets to where it needs to get in part because of all the ups and downs.

We've come a long way technology wise but are we closer to where we need to be as a society? Are we better than we were 2,000 years ago.

 

[alang1216]

There is a cycle. It exists for logical reasons. You may prefer it not be this way but it will be what it will be. Over the course of a long human life one can expect to experience at least one major societal upheaval. Feel free to blame God and religion if you think it will make you feel better, but it is doubtful that that will change anything.

I'm just glad I don't share you fatalism. Must be very depressing to think things can never get better.

What was our last major upheaval? I'd hate to think I missed it.

 

[alang1216]

Do you believe those are statements that a pragmatist would make?

View attachment 847735

Or would a pragmatist say...

Life is messy?
Life is full of ups and downs?
Life doesn't move in a straight line?
Life will be what it will be despite wishes for it to be otherwise?

A pragmatist would ask what steps would bring us to the desired goal.

It's a fatalist that would do nothing.

 

[Road Runner]

Let's see somebody else try to tackle these questions.

 

[ding]

Evolution is the very definition of atheism, without God.

Incorrect. Evolution is perfectly consistent with a creator God who created existence. In fact, the creation account literally describes a creator who created existence and then everything sprang forward from that creation. As in "let there be..."

 

[ding]

I get it, life is messy. I won't apologize for wanting to make it better.

It's because life is messy that it gets better. It's literally how the learning or evolution process works. It's because you have such a narrow view of God and evolution that you can't understand what I am talking about.

 

[ding]

It's nice to have goals and not blindly accept fate.

Sure, we should strive to progress. No one is saying we shouldn't. And I'm not arguing for blind acceptance. I'm arguing for a balanced view of reality. The fact of the matter is that life is full of impositions which cannot be avoided. These aren't necessarily bad though because they are learning opportunities if one has the correct frame of mind.