A question for the anti-choice crowd.

[Czernobog]

.....

So, tell me, do you know of a way to ascertain the wishes of a fetus, or even the capability of a fetus to formulate an opinion, to make a choice?

.....

Yes, I do.

Really? And how do you do that, pray tell? I can't wait to hear this…

Very simple: DON'T KILL THE PERSON.

In the natural course of events that person will grow and develop until he or she is ready to tell you whether he or she wants to live.

... A fetus which is not a person -....

You need to work on your reading skills, because I proved exactly the opposite of your irrational claim.

No, you didn't. A person has hopes, dreams, opinions, history, personality, and all of the things that come from personhood. You absurd claim is to not destroy the fetus - dishonestly calling it a person - and wait until not is actually a person, and ask for its opinions.

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[OKTexas]

"Anti-choice" would be those who take ALL choices away from the most innocent, vulnerable, potential-laden members of society.


The pro-death crowd is extremely anti-choice.

.....

So, tell me, do you know of a way to ascertain the wishes of a fetus, or even the capability of a fetus to formulate an opinion, to make a choice?

.....

Yes, I do.

Really? And how do you do that, pray tell? I can't wait to hear this…

Very simple: DON'T KILL THE PERSON.

In the natural course of events that person will grow and develop until he or she is ready to tell you whether he or she wants to live.

In other words, you're complete full of shit. A fetus which is not a person - as evidenced by your own admission that it is not a person capable of opinions, or communication until they are actually born - does not have any actual opinions, and you cannot communicate with a fetus.

Thank you for playing. Have a nice day. Do feel free to pick up your parting gifts on the way out.

Sent from my 5054N using Tapatalk

So you have no intent of discussing your OP. You said the premise of the thread was abortion was murder, it appears that was more a pretense than a premise. Which made you a liar from the fist post.

 

[Czernobog]

.....

So, tell me, do you know of a way to ascertain the wishes of a fetus, or even the capability of a fetus to formulate an opinion, to make a choice?

.....

Yes, I do.

Really? And how do you do that, pray tell? I can't wait to hear this…

Very simple: DON'T KILL THE PERSON.

In the natural course of events that person will grow and develop until he or she is ready to tell you whether he or she wants to live.

In other words, you're complete full of shit. A fetus which is not a person - as evidenced by your own admission that it is not a person capable of opinions, or communication until they are actually born - does not have any actual opinions, and you cannot communicate with a fetus.

Thank you for playing. Have a nice day. Do feel free to pick up your parting gifts on the way out.

Sent from my 5054N using Tapatalk

So you have no intent of discussing your OP. You said the premise of the thread was abortion was murder, it appears that was more a pretense than a premise. Which made you a liar from the fist post.

Yes, and the question was what should the punishment be for the woman who has an abortion. Did you answer that question, and I missed it? Because all I saw was you defending that position, which I was quite clear about not agreeing with.

So, would you like to discuss the OP, or do you wish to continue arguing a position that is untenable?

Sent from my 5054N using Tapatalk

 

[Unkotare]

10 ways to bond with your baby bump - BabyCentre

Voices from the Womb – Four Mothers Tell About Prebirth Communication | Parenting With Love


How to Communicate With an Unborn Baby

"Mysteries of Prenatal Consciousness" by Sarah Belle Dougherty


Bonding During Pregnancy | Expectant Mother's Guide

7 Ways to Bond with Your Unborn Baby | Ask Dr Sears

 

[koshergrl]

I am pro-choice, i.e., I believe the baby should have a say in the matter of whether or not he or she dies solely for the convenience of his or her mother.

Oh loom. Another dishonest sophist who claims it is possible to ascertain the thoughts, opinions, and wishes of a fetus.

Sent from my 5054N using Tapatalk

You're right. It is our duty to protect those who cannot speak for or protect themselves, until such time as they can take control of their lives themselves.

 

[Unkotare]

Yes, I do.

Really? And how do you do that, pray tell? I can't wait to hear this…

Very simple: DON'T KILL THE PERSON.

In the natural course of events that person will grow and develop until he or she is ready to tell you whether he or she wants to live.

... A fetus which is not a person -....

You need to work on your reading skills, because I proved exactly the opposite of your irrational claim.

No, you didn't. ....

Of course I did. Do you deny that younger people grow and become older? Do you deny that young humans grow and develop? Isn't that what you did?

 

[Czernobog]

I am pro-choice, i.e., I believe the baby should have a say in the matter of whether or not he or she dies solely for the convenience of his or her mother.

Oh loom. Another dishonest sophist who claims it is possible to ascertain the thoughts, opinions, and wishes of a fetus.

Sent from my 5054N using Tapatalk

You're right. It is our duty to protect those who cannot speak for or protect themselves, until such time as they can take control of their lives themselves.

Really. So, you are willing for the state to raise, and pay for the upkeep of all of the resultant children that your position would create?

Before you balk at that idea, remember your own words, "…until such time as they can take control of their lives themselves." That would be adulthood, not birth.

Sent from my 5054N using Tapatalk

 

[Czernobog]

Really? And how do you do that, pray tell? I can't wait to hear this…

Very simple: DON'T KILL THE PERSON.

In the natural course of events that person will grow and develop until he or she is ready to tell you whether he or she wants to live.

... A fetus which is not a person -....

You need to work on your reading skills, because I proved exactly the opposite of your irrational claim.

No, you didn't. ....

Of course I did. Do you deny that younger people grow and become older? Do you deny that young humans grow and develop? Isn't that what you did?

Not the question in the OP. What should be the punishment for the woman? After all, you wanted to discuss the OP, didn't you?

Sent from my 5054N using Tapatalk

 

[Unkotare]

Very simple: DON'T KILL THE PERSON.

In the natural course of events that person will grow and develop until he or she is ready to tell you whether he or she wants to live.

... A fetus which is not a person -....

You need to work on your reading skills, because I proved exactly the opposite of your irrational claim.

No, you didn't. ....

Of course I did. Do you deny that younger people grow and become older? Do you deny that young humans grow and develop? Isn't that what you did?

Not the question in the OP.

I notice you didn't answer.

 

[OKTexas]

Yes, I do.

Really? And how do you do that, pray tell? I can't wait to hear this…

Very simple: DON'T KILL THE PERSON.

In the natural course of events that person will grow and develop until he or she is ready to tell you whether he or she wants to live.

In other words, you're complete full of shit. A fetus which is not a person - as evidenced by your own admission that it is not a person capable of opinions, or communication until they are actually born - does not have any actual opinions, and you cannot communicate with a fetus.

Thank you for playing. Have a nice day. Do feel free to pick up your parting gifts on the way out.

Sent from my 5054N using Tapatalk

So you have no intent of discussing your OP. You said the premise of the thread was abortion was murder, it appears that was more a pretense than a premise. Which made you a liar from the fist post.

Yes, and the question was what should the punishment be for the woman who has an abortion. Did you answer that question, and I missed it? Because all I saw was you defending that position, which I was quite clear about not agreeing with.

So, would you like to discuss the OP, or do you wish to continue arguing a position that is untenable?

Sent from my 5054N using Tapatalk

Yes, I answered your question in my first post in the thread, you ignored it. And you saying my later opinions are untenable is another lie, our communicating on this message board proves it. You and I were both nonviable fetuses at one point in our lives, so yes we were alive. So are the ones in the womb today.

 

[Czernobog]

Really? And how do you do that, pray tell? I can't wait to hear this…

Very simple: DON'T KILL THE PERSON.

In the natural course of events that person will grow and develop until he or she is ready to tell you whether he or she wants to live.

In other words, you're complete full of shit. A fetus which is not a person - as evidenced by your own admission that it is not a person capable of opinions, or communication until they are actually born - does not have any actual opinions, and you cannot communicate with a fetus.

Thank you for playing. Have a nice day. Do feel free to pick up your parting gifts on the way out.

Sent from my 5054N using Tapatalk

So you have no intent of discussing your OP. You said the premise of the thread was abortion was murder, it appears that was more a pretense than a premise. Which made you a liar from the fist post.

Yes, and the question was what should the punishment be for the woman who has an abortion. Did you answer that question, and I missed it? Because all I saw was you defending that position, which I was quite clear about not agreeing with.

So, would you like to discuss the OP, or do you wish to continue arguing a position that is untenable?

Sent from my 5054N using Tapatalk

Yes, I answered your question in my first post in the thread, you ignored it. And you saying my later opinions are untenable is another lie, our communicating on this message board proves it. You and I were both nonviable fetuses at one point in our lives, so yes we were alive. So are the ones in the womb today.

And what opinions, hopes, and desires do you remember having as a fetus?

Ya know what? Don't bother answering that. You could claim anything you want, and it couldn't be verified, anyway.

One of us here is dishonest, but it isn't me.

Sent from my 5054N using Tapatalk

 

[Unkotare]

Very simple: DON'T KILL THE PERSON.

In the natural course of events that person will grow and develop until he or she is ready to tell you whether he or she wants to live.

In other words, you're complete full of shit. A fetus which is not a person - as evidenced by your own admission that it is not a person capable of opinions, or communication until they are actually born - does not have any actual opinions, and you cannot communicate with a fetus.

Thank you for playing. Have a nice day. Do feel free to pick up your parting gifts on the way out.

Sent from my 5054N using Tapatalk

So you have no intent of discussing your OP. You said the premise of the thread was abortion was murder, it appears that was more a pretense than a premise. Which made you a liar from the fist post.

Yes, and the question was what should the punishment be for the woman who has an abortion. Did you answer that question, and I missed it? Because all I saw was you defending that position, which I was quite clear about not agreeing with.

So, would you like to discuss the OP, or do you wish to continue arguing a position that is untenable?

Sent from my 5054N using Tapatalk

Yes, I answered your question in my first post in the thread, you ignored it. And you saying my later opinions are untenable is another lie, our communicating on this message board proves it. You and I were both nonviable fetuses at one point in our lives, so yes we were alive. So are the ones in the womb today.

And what opinions, hopes, and desires do you remember having as a fetus?

Sent from my 5054N using Tapatalk

What do you remember from when you were 3months old? 7 months? 11? Does that mean you were not alive? If you forget where you left your car keys, are you dead until you find them?

 

[Czernobog]

In other words, you're complete full of shit. A fetus which is not a person - as evidenced by your own admission that it is not a person capable of opinions, or communication until they are actually born - does not have any actual opinions, and you cannot communicate with a fetus.

Thank you for playing. Have a nice day. Do feel free to pick up your parting gifts on the way out.

Sent from my 5054N using Tapatalk

So you have no intent of discussing your OP. You said the premise of the thread was abortion was murder, it appears that was more a pretense than a premise. Which made you a liar from the fist post.

Yes, and the question was what should the punishment be for the woman who has an abortion. Did you answer that question, and I missed it? Because all I saw was you defending that position, which I was quite clear about not agreeing with.

So, would you like to discuss the OP, or do you wish to continue arguing a position that is untenable?

Sent from my 5054N using Tapatalk

Yes, I answered your question in my first post in the thread, you ignored it. And you saying my later opinions are untenable is another lie, our communicating on this message board proves it. You and I were both nonviable fetuses at one point in our lives, so yes we were alive. So are the ones in the womb today.

And what opinions, hopes, and desires do you remember having as a fetus?

Sent from my 5054N using Tapatalk

What do you remember from when you were 3months old? 7 months? 11? Does that mean you were not alive? If you forget where you left your car keys, are you dead until you find them?

You keep talking about alive, as if that is paramount. Cancer cells are alive, but I don't think anyone would be stupid enough to suggest they should be assigned personhood.

Sent from my 5054N using Tapatalk

 

[Unkotare]

Personhood is not an assignment. It is a recognition of reality.

 

[OKTexas]

Very simple: DON'T KILL THE PERSON.

In the natural course of events that person will grow and develop until he or she is ready to tell you whether he or she wants to live.

In other words, you're complete full of shit. A fetus which is not a person - as evidenced by your own admission that it is not a person capable of opinions, or communication until they are actually born - does not have any actual opinions, and you cannot communicate with a fetus.

Thank you for playing. Have a nice day. Do feel free to pick up your parting gifts on the way out.

Sent from my 5054N using Tapatalk

So you have no intent of discussing your OP. You said the premise of the thread was abortion was murder, it appears that was more a pretense than a premise. Which made you a liar from the fist post.

Yes, and the question was what should the punishment be for the woman who has an abortion. Did you answer that question, and I missed it? Because all I saw was you defending that position, which I was quite clear about not agreeing with.

So, would you like to discuss the OP, or do you wish to continue arguing a position that is untenable?

Sent from my 5054N using Tapatalk

Yes, I answered your question in my first post in the thread, you ignored it. And you saying my later opinions are untenable is another lie, our communicating on this message board proves it. You and I were both nonviable fetuses at one point in our lives, so yes we were alive. So are the ones in the womb today.

And what opinions, hopes, and desires do you remember having as a fetus?

Ya know what? Don't bother answering that. You could claim anything you want, and it couldn't be verified, anyway.

One of us here is dishonest, but it isn't me.

Sent from my 5054N using Tapatalk

Those things come with life experience, humans are born ignorant and have nothing but basic survival instincts during early development. So saying the unborn are not alive because they have no opinion, could also say a new born isn't alive either, do you want to kill them too. So yes, you are a liar.

 

[Czernobog]

In other words, you're complete full of shit. A fetus which is not a person - as evidenced by your own admission that it is not a person capable of opinions, or communication until they are actually born - does not have any actual opinions, and you cannot communicate with a fetus.

Thank you for playing. Have a nice day. Do feel free to pick up your parting gifts on the way out.

Sent from my 5054N using Tapatalk

So you have no intent of discussing your OP. You said the premise of the thread was abortion was murder, it appears that was more a pretense than a premise. Which made you a liar from the fist post.

Yes, and the question was what should the punishment be for the woman who has an abortion. Did you answer that question, and I missed it? Because all I saw was you defending that position, which I was quite clear about not agreeing with.

So, would you like to discuss the OP, or do you wish to continue arguing a position that is untenable?

Sent from my 5054N using Tapatalk

Yes, I answered your question in my first post in the thread, you ignored it. And you saying my later opinions are untenable is another lie, our communicating on this message board proves it. You and I were both nonviable fetuses at one point in our lives, so yes we were alive. So are the ones in the womb today.

And what opinions, hopes, and desires do you remember having as a fetus?

Ya know what? Don't bother answering that. You could claim anything you want, and it couldn't be verified, anyway.

One of us here is dishonest, but it isn't me.

Sent from my 5054N using Tapatalk

Those things come with life experience, humans are born ignorant and have nothing but basic survival instincts during early development. So saying the unborn are not alive because they have no opinion, could also say a new born isn't alive either, do you want to kill them too. So yes, you are a liar.

No. One. Is. Saying. A. Fetus. Is. Not. Alive. Where you keep getting that from, I don't know. The mere act of being alive does not confer personhood. Cancer cells are alive. A poodle is alive. A tree is alive. Guess what? No one with a brain larger than a walnut would ever suggest that any of those should be called a person.

Sent from my 5054N using Tapatalk

 

[Czernobog]

Personhood is not an assignment. It is a recognition of reality.

On, but it is. Personhood is a designation. Not all living things are persons.

Sent from my 5054N using Tapatalk

 

[OKTexas]

So you have no intent of discussing your OP. You said the premise of the thread was abortion was murder, it appears that was more a pretense than a premise. Which made you a liar from the fist post.

Yes, and the question was what should the punishment be for the woman who has an abortion. Did you answer that question, and I missed it? Because all I saw was you defending that position, which I was quite clear about not agreeing with.

So, would you like to discuss the OP, or do you wish to continue arguing a position that is untenable?

Sent from my 5054N using Tapatalk

Yes, I answered your question in my first post in the thread, you ignored it. And you saying my later opinions are untenable is another lie, our communicating on this message board proves it. You and I were both nonviable fetuses at one point in our lives, so yes we were alive. So are the ones in the womb today.

And what opinions, hopes, and desires do you remember having as a fetus?

Ya know what? Don't bother answering that. You could claim anything you want, and it couldn't be verified, anyway.

One of us here is dishonest, but it isn't me.

Sent from my 5054N using Tapatalk

Those things come with life experience, humans are born ignorant and have nothing but basic survival instincts during early development. So saying the unborn are not alive because they have no opinion, could also say a new born isn't alive either, do you want to kill them too. So yes, you are a liar.

No. One. Is. Saying. A. Fetus. Is. Not. Alive. Where you keep getting that from, I don't know. The mere act of being alive does not confer personhood. Cancer cells are alive. A poodle is alive. A tree is alive. Guess what? No one with a brain larger than a walnut would ever suggest that any of those should be called a person.

Sent from my 5054N using Tapatalk

Which one of those things have the potential to grow and someday kick your ass for wanting them dead? That should be a difference you can understand.

 

[Czernobog]

Yes, and the question was what should the punishment be for the woman who has an abortion. Did you answer that question, and I missed it? Because all I saw was you defending that position, which I was quite clear about not agreeing with.

So, would you like to discuss the OP, or do you wish to continue arguing a position that is untenable?

Sent from my 5054N using Tapatalk

Yes, I answered your question in my first post in the thread, you ignored it. And you saying my later opinions are untenable is another lie, our communicating on this message board proves it. You and I were both nonviable fetuses at one point in our lives, so yes we were alive. So are the ones in the womb today.

And what opinions, hopes, and desires do you remember having as a fetus?

Ya know what? Don't bother answering that. You could claim anything you want, and it couldn't be verified, anyway.

One of us here is dishonest, but it isn't me.

Sent from my 5054N using Tapatalk

Those things come with life experience, humans are born ignorant and have nothing but basic survival instincts during early development. So saying the unborn are not alive because they have no opinion, could also say a new born isn't alive either, do you want to kill them too. So yes, you are a liar.

No. One. Is. Saying. A. Fetus. Is. Not. Alive. Where you keep getting that from, I don't know. The mere act of being alive does not confer personhood. Cancer cells are alive. A poodle is alive. A tree is alive. Guess what? No one with a brain larger than a walnut would ever suggest that any of those should be called a person.

Sent from my 5054N using Tapatalk

Which one of those things have the potential to grow and someday kick your ass for wanting them dead? That should be a difference you can understand.

So a fetus is a potential person. I would agree. I will worry about it's "rights", and concerns when it becomes an actual person. Until then the only actual person involved in the equation is the pregnant woman, so her desires, and wishes are the only things that matter.

Sent from my 5054N using Tapatalk

 

[Unkotare]

So you have no intent of discussing your OP. You said the premise of the thread was abortion was murder, it appears that was more a pretense than a premise. Which made you a liar from the fist post.

Yes, and the question was what should the punishment be for the woman who has an abortion. Did you answer that question, and I missed it? Because all I saw was you defending that position, which I was quite clear about not agreeing with.

So, would you like to discuss the OP, or do you wish to continue arguing a position that is untenable?

Sent from my 5054N using Tapatalk

Yes, I answered your question in my first post in the thread, you ignored it. And you saying my later opinions are untenable is another lie, our communicating on this message board proves it. You and I were both nonviable fetuses at one point in our lives, so yes we were alive. So are the ones in the womb today.

And what opinions, hopes, and desires do you remember having as a fetus?

Sent from my 5054N using Tapatalk

What do you remember from when you were 3months old? 7 months? 11? Does that mean you were not alive? If you forget where you left your car keys, are you dead until you find them?

You keep talking about alive, as if that is paramount. ....

It is. You know it is, but you lack the moral courage to admit the crux of the matter.