A question for the pro-abortion aka pro-choice crowd

[Dr Grump]

If don't believe in abortion, don't have one....

 

[koshergrl]

Yes, sticking up for the vulnerable and innocent is so passe.

 

[HotDogg]

So what would you do? Force women to have babies? How?
You can't answer simple questions? or you basically have no plan.

 

[koshergrl]

Too stupid to respond to.

 

[oracle]

Why do women abort their babies?

I understand there may be an ample number of reasons, but what, in your opinion would be the concensus?

I think it's purely for selfish reasons for the most part.

Your thoughts.

General stupidity is most prevalent. Irresponsibility follows close behind.

 

[jillian]

Too stupid to respond to.

and yet it's the truth.

 

[catzmeow]

in the first trimester isn't killing a child. It's killing a clump of cells.

It stops being a clump of cells actually in the first 2 weeks...so no in the first trimester it isn't a clump of cells...that is before implantation that it divides into a variety of cells..after implantation it starts to take shape and by the 6th week it is recognizable as a baby, having arms, legs, a head, etc..that is hardly a clump of cells.

I miscarried at 12 weeks. I held the fetus in my hand after hours of agony alone in my apartment. It wasn't a child. I've had two children. I know the difference. If you don't want an abortion, don't have one. But, the courts have consistently upheld that your right to make this decision for someone else is nil. It really doesn't matter what your opinion is.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

Yes, sticking up for the vulnerable and innocent is so passe.

So again: what exactly are the legal/law enforcement mechanics of ‘sticking up for the vulnerable and innocent.’

 

[catzmeow]

Ranting on internet bulletin boards is an incredibly effective method of social change. Koshr is changing the world, one embryo at a time.

 

[Hoot]

Here's what gets me about this issue...and those of you on the "right" are complete hypocrites.

Why not attack this problem at the beginning? Preventing unwanted pregnancy? Isn't that the idea?

It's a bit late to whine and complain after the pregnancy, isn't it?

Ask yourselves why not long ago every single republican voted against a bill which would've increased sex education in schools? Wouldn't that help decrease unwanted pregnacy, and thus the need for abortions? Republicans have consistently voted against all programs designed to prevent pregnancy.

The self-righteous hypocritical republicans remind me of the man cleaning up all the spilled water on his kitchen floor, and telling everyone what a great job he's doing...while ignoring the broken water pipe under the sink!

Want less abortions? Help prevent unwanted pregnancy!

Not long ago republicans controlled the House, Senate, White House and appointed 7 of the last 9 Supreme court justices...and they didn't do a damned thing about ending abortion.

They just use it as a campaign tool to rally the far right fringe of their base, and then all but forget the issue once elected.

That's hypocrisy in my book!

 

[catzmeow]

Here's what gets me about this issue...and those of you on the "right" are complete hypocrites.

Why not attack this problem at the beginning? Preventing unwanted pregnancy? Isn't that the idea?

It's a bit late to whine and complain after the pregnancy, isn't it?

Ask yourselves why not long ago every single republican voted against a bill which would've increased sex education in schools? Wouldn't that help decrease unwanted pregnacy, and thus the need for abortions? Republicans have consistently voted against all programs designed to prevent pregnancy.

The self-righteous hypocritical republicans remind me of the man cleaning up all the spilled water on his kitchen floor, and telling everyone what a great job he's doing...while ignoring the broken water pipe under the sink!

Want less abortions? Help prevent unwanted pregnancy!

Not long ago republicans controlled the House, Senate, White House and appointed 7 of the last 9 Supreme court justices...and they didn't do a damned thing about ending abortion.

They just use it as a campaign tool to rally the far right fringe of their base, and then all but forget the issue once elected.

That's hypocrisy in my book!

Sex is sinful. It would be wrong to talk about it. Abstinence is the only answer (that, and villifying slutty women who have unplanned pregnancies*).






*I am one of those women. When confronted by an unplanned pregnancy, I did not even remotely consider having an abortion. Unfortunately, I miscarried at 12 weeks. However, I believe abortion should remain legal, even though I wouldn't have one myself.

 

[koshergrl]

Here's what gets me about this issue...and those of you on the "right" are complete hypocrites.

Why not attack this problem at the beginning? Preventing unwanted pregnancy? Isn't that the idea?

It's a bit late to whine and complain after the pregnancy, isn't it?

Ask yourselves why not long ago every single republican voted against a bill which would've increased sex education in schools? Wouldn't that help decrease unwanted pregnacy, and thus the need for abortions? Republicans have consistently voted against all programs designed to prevent pregnancy.

The self-righteous hypocritical republicans remind me of the man cleaning up all the spilled water on his kitchen floor, and telling everyone what a great job he's doing...while ignoring the broken water pipe under the sink!

Want less abortions? Help prevent unwanted pregnancy!

Not long ago republicans controlled the House, Senate, White House and appointed 7 of the last 9 Supreme court justices...and they didn't do a damned thing about ending abortion.

They just use it as a campaign tool to rally the far right fringe of their base, and then all but forget the issue once elected.

That's hypocrisy in my book!

I am all for preventing unwanted pregnancy. Of course, we already do that...but nevermind...I do NOT like pregnancy prevention used as a mask for the babykilling industry, however, and I do NOT appreciate the implication that without abortion, we can't provide contraception to women.

Because what that is essentially blackmail. "If you don't approve/fund abortion, we're withdrawing contraception...THEN you'll be sorry!"

You can have contraception WITHOUT abortion. They are NOT one and the same thing, kindly stop acting like the world is too stupid to realize that.

 

[koshergrl]

Here's what gets me about this issue...and those of you on the "right" are complete hypocrites.

Why not attack this problem at the beginning? Preventing unwanted pregnancy? Isn't that the idea?

It's a bit late to whine and complain after the pregnancy, isn't it?

Ask yourselves why not long ago every single republican voted against a bill which would've increased sex education in schools? Wouldn't that help decrease unwanted pregnacy, and thus the need for abortions? Republicans have consistently voted against all programs designed to prevent pregnancy.

The self-righteous hypocritical republicans remind me of the man cleaning up all the spilled water on his kitchen floor, and telling everyone what a great job he's doing...while ignoring the broken water pipe under the sink!

Want less abortions? Help prevent unwanted pregnancy!

Not long ago republicans controlled the House, Senate, White House and appointed 7 of the last 9 Supreme court justices...and they didn't do a damned thing about ending abortion.

They just use it as a campaign tool to rally the far right fringe of their base, and then all but forget the issue once elected.

That's hypocrisy in my book!

Sex is sinful. It would be wrong to talk about it. Abstinence is the only answer (that, and villifying slutty women who have unplanned pregnancies*).






*I am one of those women. When confronted by an unplanned pregnancy, I did not even remotely consider having an abortion. Unfortunately, I miscarried at 12 weeks. However, I believe abortion should remain legal, even though I wouldn't have one myself.

Sex outside of marriage is sinful, but that's not even the point. A person who thinks about sex is just as guilty as a person who actually has sex.

There are several dynamics going on here, and I think it's important to delineate them.

1. There is a whole population of people who think that if abortion is illegal, women will be forced to bear to term the fruits of rape and incest. Not true...provided they get in before they're due to deliver, and report the event. Women have ALWAYS been able to access abortion in such situations, and to do it legally and under a doctor's care.

2. People seem to think that abortion reduces the amount of child abuse, neglect, and even crime. It doesn't, this is a complete fabrication that has been fed for so long to the public that the public actually believes it. The truth is, child abuse and neglect have sky rocketed, as have the incidence of abortion, since 1972, when RvW was passed (illegally) against the will of the people.

3. For some reason I keep hearing, more and more often, that if we don't have abortion, women won't be able to access contraception. I don't know where the hell that comes from..I suspect it's propaganda that PP spreads to protect their golden egg...abortion.

4. Finally, the left has this all twisted around in their head with religion. They seem to think that because pro-lifers claim the sanctity of life, that necessarily means they are attempting to legislate religion. Murder is illegal because we, as a society, value life and will not suffer monsters. For some reason, the pro-abortionists have decided that life is only valuable under certain circumstances...circumstances that are dictated by personal opinion and can be protected by privacy. There is no right to privacy when it comes to murder. We don't protect privacy to enable people to kill off the people who get in their way, that's a perversion of the right, and is simply a ploy to remove rights from those who don't have the ability to speak for themselves. It's a ploy meant to provide a few with the power to dictate to others who has the right to life, and who doesn't. And nobody has the right to decide that for others. I don't have the right to end the life of my piece of shit ex, though he richly deserves death (he really serves no purpose on this earth) and mothers don't have teh right to end the lives of their innocent offspring, just because they want to.

 

[Moonglow]

how are they legislating religion?

 

[catzmeow]

[Sex outside of marriage is sinful, but that's not even the point. A person who thinks about sex is just as guilty as a person who actually has sex.

In your worldview, which I reject. Sex isn't a sin, it is a necessary procreative act, and it is pleasurable because there is a biological imperative to reproduction.

There are several dynamics going on here, and I think it's important to delineate them.

The biggest dynamic is that of the population of the U.S. who believe in fairy tales, and want to force the rest of us to adopt their fairy tale morality.

1. There is a whole population of people who think that if abortion is illegal, women will be forced to bear to term the fruits of rape and incest. Not true...provided they get in before they're due to deliver, and report the event. Women have ALWAYS been able to access abortion in such situations, and to do it legally and under a doctor's care.

This isn't my belief. I don't believe that abortion will ever be made illegal again in the U.S. I am however in favor of putting some limits on abortion based upon the viability of the fetus.

2. People seem to think that abortion reduces the amount of child abuse, neglect, and even crime. It doesn't, this is a complete fabrication that has been fed for so long to the public that the public actually believes it. The truth is, child abuse and neglect have sky rocketed, as have the incidence of abortion, since 1972, when RvW was passed (illegally) against the will of the people.

What has actually increased is child abuse reporting. Nice try, though.

3. For some reason I keep hearing, more and more often, that if we don't have abortion, women won't be able to access contraception. I don't know where the hell that comes from..I suspect it's propaganda that PP spreads to protect their golden egg...abortion.

I don't know why you posted this to me, it is irrelevant to my response.

Murder is illegal because we, as a society, value life and will not suffer monsters. For some reason, the pro-abortionists have decided that life is only valuable under certain circumstances...circumstances that are dictated by personal opinion and can be protected by privacy.

Abortion isn't murder. Nice try, but that dog won't hunt.

You don't believe in abortions, don't have one. End of story. You do not have the right to make that decision for anyone else.

 

[JohnA]

Why do women abort their babies?

I understand there may be an ample number of reasons, but what, in your opinion would be the concensus?

I think it's purely for selfish reasons for the most part.

Your thoughts.

Most of the decisions we as humans make for selfish reasons
you DONT choice to have a baby for the (good of the country or any reason ) except that you **wanted to ****
sanctimonuis opinions offer no solution

 

[JohnA]

I can not beileve teen age girls still get pregnant in the numbers they do. Birth control is laying around on almost every street coner in the US. We should be teaching young men and women about responsibilty for their own actions not making it easier for them to get abortions.

So I would say that yes abortion is a convience for most women who have them. And yes I oppose abortion but have no problem giving out bithcontrol to teenagers.

This makes too much sense for most people (on both sides of the issue). I'm against abortion, except in cases where the mother's life is in immediate danger, or when the baby will die shortly after birth.

It never ceases to blow my mind that many other people who're pro-life, are anti-birth control/condoms, etc. The more occasions safe sex is practiced among those who don't want a baby yet-the fewer abortions there are. It really is that simple.

most of the against birth control folks are *against * anything that does not confirm to there narrow religious views .
there is no reason to be against the use and supply of birth control items except to have yet more control of the masses

 

[koshergrl]

[Sex outside of marriage is sinful, but that's not even the point. A person who thinks about sex is just as guilty as a person who actually has sex.

In your worldview, which I reject. Sex isn't a sin, it is a necessary procreative act, and it is pleasurable because there is a biological imperative to reproduction.

My worldview is that sex is a gift of God, and it definitely has its place within the confines of marriage as a pleasuarable and special act. I also don't think sex outside of marriage (fornication) is the same as adultery...the bible deals quite frankly with sexual relations outside of marriage and adultery. David was beloved of God and he killed the husband of Bathsheba. Yes, they paid for it in the end, but he was still beloved of God...people do sin, it's our nature. I don't judge people for it. I think it's wrong to encourage it though.

I also agree there's a biological imperative to reproduction, I embrace that. The only way I differ is that I believe that biological imperative was designed and put in place by God. That doesn't make it any less a biological imperative.

There are several dynamics going on here, and I think it's important to delineate them.

The biggest dynamic is that of the population of the U.S. who believe in fairy tales, and want to force the rest of us to adopt their fairy tale morality.



This isn't my belief. I don't believe that abortion will ever be made illegal again in the U.S. I am however in favor of putting some limits on abortion based upon the viability of the fetus.



What has actually increased is child abuse reporting. Nice try, though.

Abortion is illegal in some states. I believe it will eventually be illegal in all, but that's just an opinion, unprovable. And there is aboslutely no evidence that the increase in child abuse reporting has increased leading to false numbers. If you compare the child abuse deaths of today compared to the child abuse deaths of 50 years ago, you see the sharp incline. While I've no doubt a few deaths were reported as accidents when they were in fact abuse, that number is negligible. Still, there's no way to prove that, either way. Kindly don't present your opinion of the matter of a fact. It is a fact that child abuse and neglect numbers have increased exponentially, that we know. While you may surmise the reason is the increase of reporting those deaths as child abuse and neglect, that is not in any way proven and as such, is also just your opinion of the matter.

3. For some reason I keep hearing, more and more often, that if we don't have abortion, women won't be able to access contraception. I don't know where the hell that comes from..I suspect it's propaganda that PP spreads to protect their golden egg...abortion.

I don't know why you posted this to me, it is irrelevant to my response.

Perhaps because I wasn't addressing only you. I quoted you but if you will note, I said that the issue needed to be broken down. I didn't mean that this was specific to you, nor did I imply that. If I had i would have said "you keep saying" instead of "I keep hearing".

Murder is illegal because we, as a society, value life and will not suffer monsters. For some reason, the pro-abortionists have decided that life is only valuable under certain circumstances...circumstances that are dictated by personal opinion and can be protected by privacy.

Abortion isn't murder. Nice try, but that dog won't hunt.

You don't believe in abortions, don't have one. End of story. You do not have the right to make that decision for anyone else.

Abortion is murder, just as it was murder to kill slaves before they were recognized as humans, and it is murder to kill a child even though you are only convicted of manslaughter. And yes, we all have the right to stand up for what is good and right, and prevent murder. Regardless of how fashionable or accepted it is at the time. It's often fashionable and accepted...and in the end, the people who supported it are reviled and maligned down through the ages as callous and selfish monsters.

 

[Moonglow]

how are they legislating religion?

well?

 

[JohnA]

Here's what gets me about this issue...and those of you on the "right" are complete hypocrites.

Why not attack this problem at the beginning? Preventing unwanted pregnancy? Isn't that the idea?

It's a bit late to whine and complain after the pregnancy, isn't it?

Ask yourselves why not long ago every single republican voted against a bill which would've increased sex education in schools? Wouldn't that help decrease unwanted pregnacy, and thus the need for abortions? Republicans have consistently voted against all programs designed to prevent pregnancy.

The self-righteous hypocritical republicans remind me of the man cleaning up all the spilled water on his kitchen floor, and telling everyone what a great job he's doing...while ignoring the broken water pipe under the sink!

Want less abortions? Help prevent unwanted pregnancy!

Not long ago republicans controlled the House, Senate, White House and appointed 7 of the last 9 Supreme court justices...and they didn't do a damned thing about ending abortion.

They just use it as a campaign tool to rally the far right fringe of their base, and then all but forget the issue once elected.

That's hypocrisy in my book!

Sex is sinful. It would be wrong to talk about it. Abstinence is the only answer (that, and villifying slutty women who have unplanned pregnancies*).






*I am one of those women. When confronted by an unplanned pregnancy, I did not even remotely consider having an abortion. Unfortunately, I miscarried at 12 weeks. However, I believe abortion should remain legal, even though I wouldn't have one myself.

Sex outside of marriage is sinful, but that's not even the point. A person who thinks about sex is just as guilty as a person who actually has sex.

There are several dynamics going on here, and I think it's important to delineate them.

1. There is a whole population of people who think that if abortion is illegal, women will be forced to bear to term the fruits of rape and incest. Not true...provided they get in before they're due to deliver, and report the event. Women have ALWAYS been able to access abortion in such situations, and to do it legally and under a doctor's care.

2. People seem to think that abortion reduces the amount of child abuse, neglect, and even crime. It doesn't, this is a complete fabrication that has been fed for so long to the public that the public actually believes it. The truth is, child abuse and neglect have sky rocketed, as have the incidence of abortion, since 1972, when RvW was passed (illegally) against the will of the people.

3. For some reason I keep hearing, more and more often, that if we don't have abortion, women won't be able to access contraception. I don't know where the hell that comes from..I suspect it's propaganda that PP spreads to protect their golden egg...abortion.

4. Finally, the left has this all twisted around in their head with religion. They seem to think that because pro-lifers claim the sanctity of life, that necessarily means they are attempting to legislate religion. Murder is illegal because we, as a society, value life and will not suffer monsters. For some reason, the pro-abortionists have decided that life is only valuable under certain circumstances...circumstances that are dictated by personal opinion and can be protected by privacy. There is no right to privacy when it comes to murder. We don't protect privacy to enable people to kill off the people who get in their way, that's a perversion of the right, and is simply a ploy to remove rights from those who don't have the ability to speak for themselves. It's a ploy meant to provide a few with the power to dictate to others who has the right to life, and who doesn't. And nobody has the right to decide that for others. I don't have the right to end the life of my piece of shit ex, though he richly deserves death (he really serves no purpose on this earth) and mothers don't have teh right to end the lives of their innocent offspring, just because they want to.

The truth is, child abuse and neglect have sky rocketed, as have the incidence of abortion, since 1972, when RvW was passed (illegally) against the will of the people

fact is since the 1980 when it peaked the rate compared to live birth of abortions has gone down


United States abortion rates, 1960-2008

were do you get the roe va wade ruling was illegal are you some sort of super knowledgeable wiss kid attorney or something ??