A Question To Leftists: WTF is "unfettered capitalism"?

[boedicca]

Exploitation and slavery are not mutually exclusive.

If I lived in a society where unfettered capitalism was the only law of the land here's what I'd do. I'd buy a bunch of slaves. I'd have them pick cotton and farm tobacco for me. I'd advertise tobacco as having some magical properties like preventing cancer. Or helping your baby grow healthy. I'd pay off the doctors who'd claim otherwise and hire some to endorse tobacco for its health benefits.

As my riches grew I'd invest in a factory. What kind of factory? It doesn't matter because I won't have any expenses since my slaves will be operating it. Hell let's make it a steel mill. I'll cut whatever corners I can to make the steel as cheaply as possible. If it costs me $5000 to build safety rails but only $20 for a slave then fuck it I'll just stock up on slaves in case any die. As my steel business grows I'd bankrupt my competitors and take over the steel market. And so on and so on.

Slavery isn't capitalism because it involves coercion, which violates the principle of the Invisible Hand whereby goods, service, and labor are subject to supply and demand and are all voluntary items. And contrary to the shrill Left, there's no such thing as "slave wages". Nobody is forced to work for any company, nor do they have imposed upon them any salary structure they don't agree to by contract.

So everything you've said so far indicates your vision of "unfettered capitalism" is based on a world that exists only in your head, where social evils of the past have never been subject to redress and reform. Puzzling still is that Leftists talk about "unfettered capitalism" as a creature that walks about today, and not in third world nations, but in Western nations such as America. So now that we've established the context in which Leftists use the term....

WTF is "unfettered capitalism"?

Nobody who is paid the remuneration they agreed to by contact is exploited and slaves aren't paid at all, so no, the two have nothing in common.

QFT. A person who is free to accept or refuse a job offer is NOT A SLAVE,

 

[boilermaker55]

Workers in Chinese factories making Apple products continue to be poorly treated, with exhausted employees falling asleep on their 12-hour shifts, the BBC has said after an undercover investigation.

Reporters who took jobs at the Pegatron factories found workers regularly exceeded 60 hours a week – contravening the company’s guidance – and that standards on ID cards, dormitories, work meetings and juvenile workers were also breached.

The broadcaster said promises made by Apple to protect workers in the wake of a spate of suicides at supplier Foxconn in 2010 were “routinely broken”.

Apple said that it disagreed with the BBC’s conclusions.

The BBC filmed a health and safety exam at a Pegatron factory in which workers chanted out answers in unison, meaning there was little chance of failing.

The footage also appeared to show workers had no choice to opt out of doing night shifts or working while standing.

One reporter had to work 18 days in a row despite repeated requests for a day off, the BBC reported.

In response to the programme, Apple told the BBC: “We are aware of no other company doing as much as Apple to ensure fair and safe working conditions.

“We work with suppliers to address shortfalls, and we see continuous and significant improvement, but we know our work is never done.”

The company said it was common for workers to sleep during breaks but it would investigate whether they were falling asleep while working.

It said it monitored the hours worked by more than a million workers, and that staff at Taiwanese-owned Pegatron averaged 55 hours a week.
THEN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Philip Morris
Victoria’s Secret
KYE
Aeropostale, Toys ‘R’ Us, Urban Outfitters
Hershey’s
You are to ignorant to corporate lies to believe anything else.

Oh! you mean unfettered capitalism in this country? LOL
You don't mean the corporations that have gone over seas to build manufacturing companies to " not pay high taxes" here. Or they find cheap (child labor) in these said countries.
Those unfettered capitalists!

It's when it's cheaper to hire new people in place of those who die in work related accidents than to invest in safety equipment. And when your cities are clouded by soot and smog as your kids go to work at the factory for $0.50 an hour.

Citing the era of the nascent Industrial Revolution is about the closest you can come to citing an example of "unfettered capitalism", but even then, capitalism was regulated and there were rules that everyone followed. Child labor, pollution, unsafe worker conditions, and a lack of basic workers rights are legitimate complaints, but they aren't unfettered capitalism.

Please list the US companies that use child labor overseas.

 

[Siete]

regardless what it means, RW's will bitch about it.

So you admit you have no idea what it means, even though you Leftwats bandy the word about as if it were a viable entity.

I know exactly what unfetter means. I admit you're an idiot if you don't. and apparently you don't

Then you wont have any trouble explaiing it, I'm sure.

to idiots like you?

I won't even begin to try, and could care less what you think about anything.

Obama lied. That's all you need to remember and repeat for the next decade or two.

Translation: No, I cant.
Thought so.

No, I won't.

again you misrepresent a comment someone else makes.

 

[boilermaker55]

So, anyone living in a 3rd world country that will work for 1/10 of what the corporation would need to pay in the US is not a slave.
To you also, you are so ignorant of what happens because you belief corporate lies.
Slaves could refuse to work.....!

Exploitation and slavery are not mutually exclusive.

If I lived in a society where unfettered capitalism was the only law of the land here's what I'd do. I'd buy a bunch of slaves. I'd have them pick cotton and farm tobacco for me. I'd advertise tobacco as having some magical properties like preventing cancer. Or helping your baby grow healthy. I'd pay off the doctors who'd claim otherwise and hire some to endorse tobacco for its health benefits.

As my riches grew I'd invest in a factory. What kind of factory? It doesn't matter because I won't have any expenses since my slaves will be operating it. Hell let's make it a steel mill. I'll cut whatever corners I can to make the steel as cheaply as possible. If it costs me $5000 to build safety rails but only $20 for a slave then fuck it I'll just stock up on slaves in case any die. As my steel business grows I'd bankrupt my competitors and take over the steel market. And so on and so on.

Slavery isn't capitalism because it involves coercion, which violates the principle of the Invisible Hand whereby goods, service, and labor are subject to supply and demand and are all voluntary items. And contrary to the shrill Left, there's no such thing as "slave wages". Nobody is forced to work for any company, nor do they have imposed upon them any salary structure they don't agree to by contract.

So everything you've said so far indicates your vision of "unfettered capitalism" is based on a world that exists only in your head, where social evils of the past have never been subject to redress and reform. Puzzling still is that Leftists talk about "unfettered capitalism" as a creature that walks about today, and not in third world nations, but in Western nations such as America. So now that we've established the context in which Leftists use the term....

WTF is "unfettered capitalism"?

Nobody who is paid the remuneration they agreed to by contact is exploited and slaves aren't paid at all, so no, the two have nothing in common.

QFT. A person who is free to accept or refuse a job offer is NOT A SLAVE,

 

[boilermaker55]

It is quite evident you are the one ignorant to the fact.

This is the only real comment to your post.

It is absolutely laughable that you find what is happening in today's world as unfettered.

If unfettered capitalism means no government involvement, the questions then becomes how long would have unfettered capitalism lasted in America, and what economic system would have replaced it?

Now that's an intelligent point. Under-regulated capitalism creates a strong demand for laws to establish reasonable regulations. Fire codes were passed because people were dying by the hundreds, trapped in buildings that didn't have sufficient fire escapes, exits, and suppression systems, for example. It goes to show that even if "unfettered capitalism" existed, it would be moribund because people would not long tolerate polluted rivers, children working in factories instead of going to school, or unsanitary meat processing practices. The horror stories of the early 20th century demonstrate convincingly that the pendulum cannot swing too far in the direction commercial anarchy before being sharply checked.

So you actually understand what unfettered capitalism looks like. Sort of like an Appalachian coal county of the early 20th century when families lived in squalor and where the poor lived under the unfettered capitalism thanks to corruption of the politicians and coal companies.

I didn't say that was unfettered capitalism. In fact I was making the argument that it's impossible for such a thing to exist because people won't abide lawlessness in industry.

You clearly don't know what fettered or unfettered means.

 

[boedicca]

So, anyone living in a 3rd world country that will work for 1/10 of what the corporation would need to pay in the US is not a slave.
To you also, you are so ignorant of what happens because you belief corporate lies.
Slaves could refuse to work.....!

I see that you are thoroughly unacquainted with History, Economics, and Ethics.

 

[bripat9643]

It's when it's cheaper to hire new people in place of those who die in work related accidents than to invest in safety equipment. And when your cities are clouded by soot and smog as your kids go to work at the factory for $0.50 an hour.

It's never cheaper to hire people to replace those who die in work-related accidents. The families of those workers sue the employer for millions of dollars, more than the company would pay the worker in a lifetime. So how is that cheaper?

Pollution is a problem specific to non-owned or government-owned property. However, it can be resolved through the tort process. Huge government regulatory bureaucracies are not required.

 

[Siete]

unfettered capitalism has what to do with labor ?

 

[saintmichaeldefendthem]

Workers in Chinese factories making Apple products continue to be poorly treated, with exhausted employees falling asleep on their 12-hour shifts, the BBC has said after an undercover investigation.

Reporters who took jobs at the Pegatron factories found workers regularly exceeded 60 hours a week – contravening the company’s guidance – and that standards on ID cards, dormitories, work meetings and juvenile workers were also breached.

The broadcaster said promises made by Apple to protect workers in the wake of a spate of suicides at supplier Foxconn in 2010 were “routinely broken”.

Apple said that it disagreed with the BBC’s conclusions.

The BBC filmed a health and safety exam at a Pegatron factory in which workers chanted out answers in unison, meaning there was little chance of failing.

The footage also appeared to show workers had no choice to opt out of doing night shifts or working while standing.

One reporter had to work 18 days in a row despite repeated requests for a day off, the BBC reported.

In response to the programme, Apple told the BBC: “We are aware of no other company doing as much as Apple to ensure fair and safe working conditions.

“We work with suppliers to address shortfalls, and we see continuous and significant improvement, but we know our work is never done.”

The company said it was common for workers to sleep during breaks but it would investigate whether they were falling asleep while working.

It said it monitored the hours worked by more than a million workers, and that staff at Taiwanese-owned Pegatron averaged 55 hours a week.
THEN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Philip Morris
Victoria’s Secret
KYE
Aeropostale, Toys ‘R’ Us, Urban Outfitters
Hershey’s
You are to ignorant to corporate lies to believe anything else.

Oh! you mean unfettered capitalism in this country? LOL
You don't mean the corporations that have gone over seas to build manufacturing companies to " not pay high taxes" here. Or they find cheap (child labor) in these said countries.
Those unfettered capitalists!

It's when it's cheaper to hire new people in place of those who die in work related accidents than to invest in safety equipment. And when your cities are clouded by soot and smog as your kids go to work at the factory for $0.50 an hour.

Citing the era of the nascent Industrial Revolution is about the closest you can come to citing an example of "unfettered capitalism", but even then, capitalism was regulated and there were rules that everyone followed. Child labor, pollution, unsafe worker conditions, and a lack of basic workers rights are legitimate complaints, but they aren't unfettered capitalism.

Please list the US companies that use child labor overseas.

Apparently you didn't understand the request. In fact you confirmed that Apple does indeed have standards for working conditions. And yes I brush aside rumors of underage workers, requiring a higher level of proof than you Leftwats are accustomed to using to back up your idiocies.

And where you fail fantastically is not providing proof of "unfettered capitalism", thinking that less than ideal working conditions satisfies the inquiry for examples of industry not governed by laws and regulations. In fact, as the OP alludes to, no such creature exists and you haven't proved otherwise.

 

[bripat9643]

If I lived in a society where unfettered capitalism was the only law of the land here's what I'd do. I'd buy a bunch of slaves. I'd have them pick cotton and farm tobacco for me. I'd advertise tobacco as having some magical properties like preventing cancer. Or helping your baby grow healthy. I'd pay off the doctors who'd claim otherwise and hire some to endorse tobacco for its health benefits.

As my riches grew I'd invest in a factory. What kind of factory? It doesn't matter because I won't have any expenses since my slaves will be operating it. Hell let's make it a steel mill. I'll cut whatever corners I can to make the steel as cheaply as possible. If it costs me $5000 to build safety rails but only $20 for a slave then fuck it I'll just stock up on slaves in case any die. As my steel business grows I'd bankrupt my competitors and take over the steel market. And so on and so on.

Slavery isn't a feature of capitalism, dumbfuck. Capitalism is the social arrangement where all transactions are voluntary. There's obviously nothing voluntary about slavery.

Your imaginary scenario could never happen in the real world for a host of reasons. One of them is the fact that slaves are very expensive. You would quickly go bankrupt if you killed them to save $5000.

 

[bripat9643]

If I lived in a society where unfettered capitalism was the only law of the land here's what I'd do. I'd buy a bunch of slaves. I'd have them pick cotton and farm tobacco for me. I'd advertise tobacco as having some magical properties like preventing cancer. Or helping your baby grow healthy. I'd pay off the doctors who'd claim otherwise and hire some to endorse tobacco for its health benefits.

As my riches grew I'd invest in a factory. What kind of factory? It doesn't matter because I won't have any expenses since my slaves will be operating it. Hell let's make it a steel mill. I'll cut whatever corners I can to make the steel as cheaply as possible. If it costs me $5000 to build safety rails but only $20 for a slave then fuck it I'll just stock up on slaves in case any die. As my steel business grows I'd bankrupt my competitors and take over the steel market. And so on and so on.

Slavery isn't capitalism because it involves coercion, which violates the principle of the Invisible Hand whereby goods, service, and labor are subject to supply and demand and are all voluntary items. And contrary to the shrill Left, there's no such thing as "slave wages". Nobody is forced to work for any company, nor do they have imposed upon them any salary structure they don't agree to by contract.

So everything you've said so far indicates your vision of "unfettered capitalism" is based on a world that exists only in your head, where social evils of the past have never been subject to redress and reform. Puzzling still is that Leftists talk about "unfettered capitalism" as a creature that walks about today, and not in third world nations, but in Western nations such as America. So now that we've established the context in which Leftists use the term....

WTF is "unfettered capitalism"?

Slavery is coercion? You commie. The invisible hand saw fit to allow slaves to be traded for the entirety of our history. What are you going to tell me next? That the slaves have a right to band together to stop me from being able to enslave them? You damn limp-wristed marxist.

You're obviously just a fucking moron who isn't worth debating.

 

[saintmichaeldefendthem]

So, anyone living in a 3rd world country that will work for 1/10 of what the corporation would need to pay in the US is not a slave.
To you also, you are so ignorant of what happens because you belief corporate lies.
Slaves could refuse to work.....!

Exploitation and slavery are not mutually exclusive.

If I lived in a society where unfettered capitalism was the only law of the land here's what I'd do. I'd buy a bunch of slaves. I'd have them pick cotton and farm tobacco for me. I'd advertise tobacco as having some magical properties like preventing cancer. Or helping your baby grow healthy. I'd pay off the doctors who'd claim otherwise and hire some to endorse tobacco for its health benefits.

As my riches grew I'd invest in a factory. What kind of factory? It doesn't matter because I won't have any expenses since my slaves will be operating it. Hell let's make it a steel mill. I'll cut whatever corners I can to make the steel as cheaply as possible. If it costs me $5000 to build safety rails but only $20 for a slave then fuck it I'll just stock up on slaves in case any die. As my steel business grows I'd bankrupt my competitors and take over the steel market. And so on and so on.

Slavery isn't capitalism because it involves coercion, which violates the principle of the Invisible Hand whereby goods, service, and labor are subject to supply and demand and are all voluntary items. And contrary to the shrill Left, there's no such thing as "slave wages". Nobody is forced to work for any company, nor do they have imposed upon them any salary structure they don't agree to by contract.

So everything you've said so far indicates your vision of "unfettered capitalism" is based on a world that exists only in your head, where social evils of the past have never been subject to redress and reform. Puzzling still is that Leftists talk about "unfettered capitalism" as a creature that walks about today, and not in third world nations, but in Western nations such as America. So now that we've established the context in which Leftists use the term....

WTF is "unfettered capitalism"?

Nobody who is paid the remuneration they agreed to by contact is exploited and slaves aren't paid at all, so no, the two have nothing in common.

QFT. A person who is free to accept or refuse a job offer is NOT A SLAVE,

Actually the highest paying jobs are by American companies and they are creating opportunities and upward mobility that wouldn't otherwise exist. That's the only kind of "spread the wealth" that works. Not only are American companies paying more, but they're setting the highest standards for worker conditions. For every job at Apple's Chinese production facility there are hundreds, sometimes thousands of applicants. The ones who work there consider themselves lucky.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

Workers in Chinese factories making Apple products continue to be poorly treated,

now that is idiotic and liberal for sure. They must make $600 a month while Cambodia is $124 and Bangledesh is $66. Liberals are so stupid they would pass a law that businesses must end poverty and unemployment by simply hiring and paying enough. They lack the IQ to understand that real wages rise only in proportion to the amount of Republican capitalism present.

 

[JoeNormal]

"unfettered capitalism"

An example.

The Heirs of Walmart pay enough money to Congress to get them (Congress) to eliminate minimum wage laws and make every state a right to work state. That happens first.

Then the Heirs as Owners of Walmart dictate that every employee will have their wages cut by 2.00 dollars an hour. Or maybe the largest employer in the US decides that employees need to work for the Chinese equivalent wages.

Walmarts bottom line just increased by hundreds of millions of dollars by "controlling" labor costs, which is their right and obligation as a capitalist. The unfettered part is that there is no one to stop my actions. Right there is unfettered capitalism.

It would work till the employees burnt the store down.

Missing in that example is where anyone is forced to work for lower wages, missing also is the fact that Walmart has competitors and is subject to the laws of supply and demand and the natural human tendency to promote their own best interest by applying their labors where it is best compensated. Maybe that's the problem, your concept of "unfettered capitalism" is grounded in the mistaken belief that a company can slash wages with no consequences. And since worker compensation is merely one facet of industry, your example is woefully insufficient to address the broader question of what "unfettered capitalism" is.

I guess you're unaware that Walmart's business model includes using their gigantic buying network to run the mom and pop stores out of business in an area so that whatever labor force is left is basically forced to work for them.

Yeah, I know. They should move.

 

[Kosh]

There are some far left drones that believe Capitalism equals communist China..

 

[NYcarbineer]

It's almost endearing how the Left vouchers so much faith in mythical beasts, global warming (AKA Manbearpig), a "living wage", the Republican war on women, and finally, a very curious creature of lore, "unfettered capitalism"

Yes, even my communist Pope, bless his heart, has lent credence to this elusive creature. I opine that he ought better to have expressed belief in space aliens, more proof available and all.

And whenever Republicans suggest curtailing burdensome regulations, such as the repeal of the Glass-Steagall Act, they are accused of "de regulating" commerce. It's almost as if we're to believe that capitalism must be weighed down with massive regulation or it's the Wild West. Those are the only choices according to the Left.

So my question is, where is this fabled beast? Where does there exist or has ever existed a pure capitalist system unencumbered by laws and by regulation?

Unfettered capitalism would be, just as an example, allowing your supermarket to legally sell you a pound of hamburger without having to in any way reveal what kind of meat it was,

if in fact it was meat at all. And do so with no chance of any legal liability of any kind.

If you want to live in that world, you must be a conservative.

 

[JoeNormal]

Workers in Chinese factories making Apple products continue to be poorly treated, with exhausted employees falling asleep on their 12-hour shifts, the BBC has said after an undercover investigation.

Reporters who took jobs at the Pegatron factories found workers regularly exceeded 60 hours a week – contravening the company’s guidance – and that standards on ID cards, dormitories, work meetings and juvenile workers were also breached.

The broadcaster said promises made by Apple to protect workers in the wake of a spate of suicides at supplier Foxconn in 2010 were “routinely broken”.

Apple said that it disagreed with the BBC’s conclusions.

The BBC filmed a health and safety exam at a Pegatron factory in which workers chanted out answers in unison, meaning there was little chance of failing.

The footage also appeared to show workers had no choice to opt out of doing night shifts or working while standing.

One reporter had to work 18 days in a row despite repeated requests for a day off, the BBC reported.

In response to the programme, Apple told the BBC: “We are aware of no other company doing as much as Apple to ensure fair and safe working conditions.

“We work with suppliers to address shortfalls, and we see continuous and significant improvement, but we know our work is never done.”

The company said it was common for workers to sleep during breaks but it would investigate whether they were falling asleep while working.

It said it monitored the hours worked by more than a million workers, and that staff at Taiwanese-owned Pegatron averaged 55 hours a week.
THEN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Philip Morris
Victoria’s Secret
KYE
Aeropostale, Toys ‘R’ Us, Urban Outfitters
Hershey’s
You are to ignorant to corporate lies to believe anything else.

Oh! you mean unfettered capitalism in this country? LOL
You don't mean the corporations that have gone over seas to build manufacturing companies to " not pay high taxes" here. Or they find cheap (child labor) in these said countries.
Those unfettered capitalists!

It's when it's cheaper to hire new people in place of those who die in work related accidents than to invest in safety equipment. And when your cities are clouded by soot and smog as your kids go to work at the factory for $0.50 an hour.

Citing the era of the nascent Industrial Revolution is about the closest you can come to citing an example of "unfettered capitalism", but even then, capitalism was regulated and there were rules that everyone followed. Child labor, pollution, unsafe worker conditions, and a lack of basic workers rights are legitimate complaints, but they aren't unfettered capitalism.

Please list the US companies that use child labor overseas.

Apparently you didn't understand the request. In fact you confirmed that Apple does indeed have standards for working conditions. And yes I brush aside rumors of underage workers, requiring a higher level of proof than you Leftwats are accustomed to using to back up your idiocies.

And where you fail fantastically is not providing proof of "unfettered capitalism", thinking that less than ideal working conditions satisfies the inquiry for examples of industry not governed by laws and regulations. In fact, as the OP alludes to, no such creature exists and you haven't proved otherwise.

LOL, you're a real saint. Thanks for at least letting us know that you're completely immune from supporting evidence.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

"unfettered capitalism"

An example.

The Heirs of Walmart pay enough money to Congress to get them (Congress) to eliminate minimum wage laws and make every state a right to work state. That happens first.

Then the Heirs as Owners of Walmart dictate that every employee will have their wages cut by 2.00 dollars an hour. Or maybe the largest employer in the US decides that employees need to work for the Chinese equivalent wages.

Walmarts bottom line just increased by hundreds of millions of dollars by "controlling" labor costs, which is their right and obligation as a capitalist. The unfettered part is that there is no one to stop my actions. Right there is unfettered capitalism.

It would work till the employees burnt the store down.

Missing in that example is where anyone is forced to work for lower wages, missing also is the fact that Walmart has competitors and is subject to the laws of supply and demand and the natural human tendency to promote their own best interest by applying their labors where it is best compensated. Maybe that's the problem, your concept of "unfettered capitalism" is grounded in the mistaken belief that a company can slash wages with no consequences. And since worker compensation is merely one facet of industry, your example is woefully insufficient to address the broader question of what "unfettered capitalism" is.

I guess you're unaware that Walmart's business model includes using their gigantic buying network to run the mom and pop stores out of business in an area so that whatever labor force is left is basically forced to work for them.

Yeah, I know. They should move.

dear, Walmart has saved America $1 trillion dollars in lower prices so is saintly for sure. We need to help them since they are probably doomed by continued internet competition that builds no stores and hires few workers. Its so horrible the way Amazon is threatening Walmart! Do the libturds want to make the internet illegal?

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

allowing your supermarket to legally sell you a pound of hamburger without having to in any way reveal what kind of meat it was,

dear, the pure beauty of capitalism is that you don't have to buy it if they won't tell you whats in it.
the beauty of capitalism is that you get rich if you satisfy people, not if you disatisfy people.
Its like talking to a child, a small child when you talk to a liberal.

 

[boilermaker55]

Your ignorant reply has nothing to say at all. Obviously you have no retort.

So, anyone living in a 3rd world country that will work for 1/10 of what the corporation would need to pay in the US is not a slave.
To you also, you are so ignorant of what happens because you belief corporate lies.
Slaves could refuse to work.....!

I see that you are thoroughly unacquainted with History, Economics, and Ethics.