A socialist hell on earth

[bripat9643]

It is a Friday night in Venezuela. Five nights ago, the country imploded under the weight of its socialist policies. Riots, and the subsequent violence reigned and fires lit up the pre-dawn sky. The government backed paramilitary, National Police and National Guard set upon various cities across the country, snuffing out dissent, shooting at and in some cases murdering student protesters, carrying out brutal beatings, shooting tear gas into buildings and silencing other protests against its strict censorship of the media and speech wherever they saw it.

This is prime evidence that wherever socialism goes, it leaves death, destruction and chaos in its wake. What makes this even worse is that the world isn't paying any attention. With Syria and the conflict between Russia and The Ukraine dominating the headlines, the violence in Venezuela is being ignored.

(Yes, I'm looking at you, Bernie Sanders supporters)

Tonight, Venezuela is seeing a spasm of violence that’s unlike anything the country has experienced since 1989. Information is fragmented, since an almost complete media black-out is in place, but you don’t need the media to hear your neighbor’s screams.

Caracas, Valencia, Merida and San Cristobal in particular have become virtual war zones: National Guard units and National Police have been shooting tear gas canisters and buckshot sometimes directly at protesters, sometimes into residential buildings and, raiding any place they think student protesters may be hiding. Alongside them, the government backed colectivos (basically paramilitary gangs on motorbikes, a tropical basij) shoot at people with live ammo.

But of course, this is no war zone: in a war zone you have two sides shooting at each other. Tonight one side is doing all the shooting, the other side is [corrected for grammar] being shot at.

19F - The Night Venezuela Finally Imploded | Caracas Chronicles

we aren't Venezuela.

you want to give back yoru ssd?

We will be Venezuela if we elect Sanders. Do you actually believe there's something so special about America that the laws of economics don't apply to it?

 

[bripat9643]

Germany is a socialist country. Why not use them as your example, RWnutters?

PS, they offer free college...

Germany is a capitalist welfare state, just like the United States. It has more welfare and therefore a lower standard of living than the United States.

 

[bripat9643]

It is a Friday night in Venezuela. Five nights ago, the country imploded under the weight of its socialist policies. Riots, and the subsequent violence reigned and fires lit up the pre-dawn sky. The government backed paramilitary, National Police and National Guard set upon various cities across the country, snuffing out dissent, shooting at and in some cases murdering student protesters, carrying out brutal beatings, shooting tear gas into buildings and silencing other protests against its strict censorship of the media and speech wherever they saw it.

This is prime evidence that wherever socialism goes, it leaves death, destruction and chaos in its wake. What makes this even worse is that the world isn't paying any attention. With Syria and the conflict between Russia and The Ukraine dominating the headlines, the violence in Venezuela is being ignored.

(Yes, I'm looking at you, Bernie Sanders supporters)

Tonight, Venezuela is seeing a spasm of violence that’s unlike anything the country has experienced since 1989. Information is fragmented, since an almost complete media black-out is in place, but you don’t need the media to hear your neighbor’s screams.

Caracas, Valencia, Merida and San Cristobal in particular have become virtual war zones: National Guard units and National Police have been shooting tear gas canisters and buckshot sometimes directly at protesters, sometimes into residential buildings and, raiding any place they think student protesters may be hiding. Alongside them, the government backed colectivos (basically paramilitary gangs on motorbikes, a tropical basij) shoot at people with live ammo.

But of course, this is no war zone: in a war zone you have two sides shooting at each other. Tonight one side is doing all the shooting, the other side is [corrected for grammar] being shot at.

19F - The Night Venezuela Finally Imploded | Caracas Chronicles

This is the dream the democrats have for America, it is what they work for every day.

Why? Why would the third of Americans who are self-identified Democrats want an economic collapse?

They don't, but they still insist on voting for policies that will make this country collapse. The are Democrats - meaning they are idiots.

 

[bripat9643]

This thread is a great example of why conservatism is dead.

You mean because they tell the truth about the idiotic ideas you believe in?

 

[bripat9643]

Bernies plans are nothing like the type of Socialism instituted in Venezuela.

Socialism is socialism. His brand of socialism is the hammer cocked on a gun ready to fire.

Name a social democracy that has devolved into dictatorship?

The Weimer Republic.

Sent from my SM-G928V using Tapatalk

The exception that proves the rule.

That isn't how the phrase goes. It's "the exception that tests the rule." If you have an exception, then it isn't a rule. However, all the examples given previously that you rejected are also valid. I just listed one that you couldn't possibly reject.

 

[jon_berzerk]

why would there be any protesting in a socialist utopia

 

[Agit8r]

Bernies plans are nothing like the type of Socialism instituted in Venezuela.

Socialism is socialism. His brand of socialism is the hammer cocked on a gun ready to fire.

Name a social democracy that has devolved into dictatorship?

The Weimer Republic.

Sent from my SM-G928V using Tapatalk

The exception that proves the rule.

That isn't how the phrase goes. It's "the exception that tests the rule." If you have an exception, then it isn't a rule. However, all the examples given previously that you rejected are also valid. I just listed one that you couldn't possibly reject.

Exception that proves the rule - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Tuatara]

It is a Friday night in Venezuela. Five nights ago, the country imploded under the weight of its socialist policies. Riots, and the subsequent violence reigned and fires lit up the pre-dawn sky. The government backed paramilitary, National Police and National Guard set upon various cities across the country, snuffing out dissent, shooting at and in some cases murdering student protesters, carrying out brutal beatings, shooting tear gas into buildings and silencing other protests against its strict censorship of the media and speech wherever they saw it.

This is prime evidence that wherever socialism goes, it leaves death, destruction and chaos in its wake. What makes this even worse is that the world isn't paying any attention. With Syria and the conflict between Russia and The Ukraine dominating the headlines, the violence in Venezuela is being ignored.

(Yes, I'm looking at you, Bernie Sanders supporters)

Tonight, Venezuela is seeing a spasm of violence that’s unlike anything the country has experienced since 1989. Information is fragmented, since an almost complete media black-out is in place, but you don’t need the media to hear your neighbor’s screams.

Caracas, Valencia, Merida and San Cristobal in particular have become virtual war zones: National Guard units and National Police have been shooting tear gas canisters and buckshot sometimes directly at protesters, sometimes into residential buildings and, raiding any place they think student protesters may be hiding. Alongside them, the government backed colectivos (basically paramilitary gangs on motorbikes, a tropical basij) shoot at people with live ammo.

But of course, this is no war zone: in a war zone you have two sides shooting at each other. Tonight one side is doing all the shooting, the other side is [corrected for grammar] being shot at.

19F - The Night Venezuela Finally Imploded | Caracas Chronicles

It's amazing that you cannot see the difference in Bernie's Democratic Socialism, which is similar to countries like Norway and Sweden, versus the near dictatorships of Venezuela and similar countries. SMH

Wait, Venezuela is under a dictatorship. When did this happen?

 

[kaz]

Euphemisms aren't going to win the day either though. Democrats are socialists. Social security and medicare are socialism. Describing things correctly isn't necessarily about winning an election

I have no doubt that the Democrats would love nothing more than to have you call such popular programs socialism, and argue against them.

That's what I've been saying. People will hear Social Security and Medicare called "socialism", and they'll say "well, I guess I like socialism".

Is that what you want? Or do you really think you're going to talk people out of their Social Security and Medicare?
.

So I couldn't call socialism socialism and I shouldn't oppose dependency programs like social security and medicare because people don't want to hear it? Why? That's ridiculous. I'll speak up for what I believe. Think about a country that follows your standards, everyone goes along with what is popular and doesn't speak up. Yeah, that's a good outcome.

If what I cared about was having popular views, I wouldn't be a libertarian, I'd be a Republican. Then again they're losing too because even the tiniest bit of personal responsibility isn't popular, so let's all just be Democrats. Otherwise we have to advocate things that no one wants to hear, which isn't popular. Shouldn't be done

How about we stop painting ourselves with labels and playing partisan politics. Can't we just discuss each issue at face value as stop freaking out about the imaginary slippery slope?

"socialism" isn't a label, it's an ideology.

and I don't belong to a party and said I didn't, and you called me "partisan?"

Maybe instead of throwing a rod about "labels" you should buy a dictionary and learn what the words mean

Slow your reading and work on comprehension... I didn't call you a partisan. I renounced partisan politics. And although Socialism is an ideology it is being used label politicians and generalize their policies views in a very inaccurate way, hence the OP's ridiculous comparison of Venezuela and Uncle Bernie

So in a post to me where you denounced "partisan politics," you weren't referring to me in the post you wrote ... to me. And you tell me to work on "reading comprehension." Keep talking, you're an air headed hoot.

And tell me how Democrats are not "socialist." You got some content at some point or are you just going to denounce labels while you label me as "partisan" when I don't support either party?

 

[Mac1958]

There's a difference between: Is Bernie advocating turning us into Cuba now And When would Bernie stop moving left so that we don't become Cuba. The first may be true, but the answer to the second is never. That's generally what Democrats do.

Okay, I think that's a perfectly valid point, and I share the concern that they would go too far, the slippery slope argument. We often tend to knee-jerk and overshoot.

So whether you want to either reverse this course or at least mitigate it, you'll need to offer a clear, strong alternative argument. But I definitely don't think the word "socialism" is going to scare anyone any more.
.

Euphemisms aren't going to win the day either though. Democrats are socialists. Social security and medicare are socialism. Describing things correctly isn't necessarily about winning an election

I have no doubt that the Democrats would love nothing more than to have you call such popular programs socialism, and argue against them.

That's what I've been saying. People will hear Social Security and Medicare called "socialism", and they'll say "well, I guess I like socialism".

Is that what you want? Or do you really think you're going to talk people out of their Social Security and Medicare?
.

So I couldn't call socialism socialism and I shouldn't oppose dependency programs like social security and medicare because people don't want to hear it? Why? That's ridiculous. I'll speak up for what I believe. Think about a country that follows your standards, everyone goes along with what is popular and doesn't speak up. Yeah, that's a good outcome.

If what I cared about was having popular views, I wouldn't be a libertarian, I'd be a Republican. Then again they're losing too because even the tiniest bit of personal responsibility isn't popular, so let's all just be Democrats. Otherwise we have to advocate things that no one wants to hear, which isn't popular. Shouldn't be done

Oh, I'm the last person here to say someone shouldn't say something.

I'll try to make my point one last time: When you call programs like Medicare and Social Security "socialism", most people are going to say "well, I like those programs, I think they're good for the country, so maybe socialism ain't that bad".

And this is happening right now, before our eyes. Screaming "socialism!" is simply no longer working, and in fact, may be pushing us there faster. Conservatives have been doing liberals a great favor - they're just screaming "socialism" and the liberals are making a case for it.

You're certainly welcome to do that.
.

 

[Manchester]

There are plenty of sticks to beat Sanders with, so why come up with a comparison that doesn't stand up to even the slightest bit of scrutiny?

Let me educate the huddled masses here.

For the record, the party that Maduro and his VP belong to is the PSUV, (Partido Socialista Unido de Venezuela). One of the ideologies it is founded upon is Democratic Socialism.

See here, on its Wikipedia page:

Socialism of the 21st century
Left-wing nationalism
Neo-Marxism
Bolivarianism
Chavismo
Democratic socialism <----------

So, it does stand up to scrutiny, and like I said earlier, it is nothing but the hammer cocked on a gun ready to fire. Democratic socialism, huh? If it were, why would a tyrant and his party espouse to it?

Did you quote the wrong post? Because that has literally NOTHING to do with what you quoted. Thanks.

 

[NYcarbineer]

Germany is a socialist country. Why not use them as your example, RWnutters?

PS, they offer free college...

Germany is a capitalist welfare state, just like the United States. It has more welfare and therefore a lower standard of living than the United States.

So we can have free college without turning into a socialist hell.

Thank you. The witness is dismissed.

 

[Edgetho]

Wait, Venezuela is under a dictatorship. When did this happen?

When Chavez had term limits for elective offices stricken from their Constitution in 2009

Try to keep up, umkay?

 

[Edgetho]

So we can have free college without turning into a socialist hell.

Thank you. The witness is dismissed.

If all you want is 'Free College' there are several States that already have that and several more with legislation pending....

But wait!

I already told you that. Did you forget already?

And what is Free College, BTW? Enquiring minds n' all

'Splain this free college stuff to me, Lucy.

Forget about who's going to pay for it. We already know that.

Tell me who gets to go to these 'Free Colleges'

How are they selected? Can EVERYBODY go? Even obviously brain-damaged people like you?

Who pays for Room and Board? Who pays for Books?

Can we pick our own College? (I'll take University of Michigan, you can have U of Phoenix)

I think this another half-assed idea, monkey see-monkey do you're trying to copy from Europe.

You have no clue.

As usual.

None

 

[Seawytch]

Wait, Venezuela is under a dictatorship. When did this happen?

When Chavez had term limits for elective offices stricken from their Constitution in 2009

Try to keep up, umkay?

A lot of our elected offices don't have term limits. Does that make us a dictatorship?

 

[NYcarbineer]

So we can have free college without turning into a socialist hell.

Thank you. The witness is dismissed.

If all you want is 'Free College' there are several States that already have that and several more with legislation pending....

But wait!

I already told you that. Did you forget already?

And what is Free College, BTW? Enquiring minds n' all

'Splain this free college stuff to me, Lucy.

Forget about who's going to pay for it. We already know that.

Tell me who gets to go to these 'Free Colleges'

How are they selected? Can EVERYBODY go? Even obviously brain-damaged people like you?

Who pays for Room and Board? Who pays for Books?

Can we pick our own College? (I'll take University of Michigan, you can have U of Phoenix)

I think this another half-assed idea, monkey see-monkey do you're trying to copy from Europe.

You have no clue.

As usual.

None

Free college is like free public education K - 12. You've just added some years to it. How hard is that?

Germany has one of the highest standards of living in the world. If you want to argue that Germany could improve itself as a nation if it would get rid of that free college,

by all means, go ahead, make that argument.

 

[Edgetho]

A lot of our elected offices don't have term limits. Does that make us a dictatorship?

You don't understand the meaning of the word 'dictatorship' do you?

Try looking it up.

(it goes back to Rome, BTW. Start there)

 

[Edgetho]

Free college is like free public education K - 12. You've just added some years to it. How hard is that?

Germany has one of the highest standards of living in the world. If you want to argue that Germany could improve itself as a nation if it would get rid of that free college,

by all means, go ahead, make that argument.

I'd have no problem with that.

You're starting an argument with yourself. If all you want is an extra couple years thrown into the system, I'd be okay with that. Kinda like a French Baccalaureate.

How about some Trade Schools like the Germans have? I'd be down with that, too.

A couple extra years to teach kids how to weld, fabricate, machine, cook, repair -- Whatever.

What's wrong with that?

 

[Iceweasel]

There's a difference between: Is Bernie advocating turning us into Cuba now And When would Bernie stop moving left so that we don't become Cuba. The first may be true, but the answer to the second is never. That's generally what Democrats do.

Okay, I think that's a perfectly valid point, and I share the concern that they would go too far, the slippery slope argument. We often tend to knee-jerk and overshoot.

So whether you want to either reverse this course or at least mitigate it, you'll need to offer a clear, strong alternative argument. But I definitely don't think the word "socialism" is going to scare anyone any more.
.

Euphemisms aren't going to win the day either though. Democrats are socialists. Social security and medicare are socialism. Describing things correctly isn't necessarily about winning an election

I have no doubt that the Democrats would love nothing more than to have you call such popular programs socialism, and argue against them.

That's what I've been saying. People will hear Social Security and Medicare called "socialism", and they'll say "well, I guess I like socialism".

Is that what you want? Or do you really think you're going to talk people out of their Social Security and Medicare?
.

So I couldn't call socialism socialism and I shouldn't oppose dependency programs like social security and medicare because people don't want to hear it? Why? That's ridiculous. I'll speak up for what I believe. Think about a country that follows your standards, everyone goes along with what is popular and doesn't speak up. Yeah, that's a good outcome.

If what I cared about was having popular views, I wouldn't be a libertarian, I'd be a Republican. Then again they're losing too because even the tiniest bit of personal responsibility isn't popular, so let's all just be Democrats. Otherwise we have to advocate things that no one wants to hear, which isn't popular. Shouldn't be done

Oh, I'm the last person here to say someone shouldn't say something.

I'll try to make my point one last time: When you call programs like Medicare and Social Security "socialism", most people are going to say "well, I like those programs, I think they're good for the country, so maybe socialism ain't that bad".

And this is happening right now, before our eyes. Screaming "socialism!" is simply no longer working, and in fact, may be pushing us there faster. Conservatives have been doing liberals a great favor - they're just screaming "socialism" and the liberals are making a case for it.

You're certainly welcome to do that.
.

In reality, conservatives have been saying we to fix Medicare and Social Security because it isn't sustainable. You hear screaming because that's what you do.

 

[Mac1958]

Okay, I think that's a perfectly valid point, and I share the concern that they would go too far, the slippery slope argument. We often tend to knee-jerk and overshoot.

So whether you want to either reverse this course or at least mitigate it, you'll need to offer a clear, strong alternative argument. But I definitely don't think the word "socialism" is going to scare anyone any more.
.

Euphemisms aren't going to win the day either though. Democrats are socialists. Social security and medicare are socialism. Describing things correctly isn't necessarily about winning an election

I have no doubt that the Democrats would love nothing more than to have you call such popular programs socialism, and argue against them.

That's what I've been saying. People will hear Social Security and Medicare called "socialism", and they'll say "well, I guess I like socialism".

Is that what you want? Or do you really think you're going to talk people out of their Social Security and Medicare?
.

So I couldn't call socialism socialism and I shouldn't oppose dependency programs like social security and medicare because people don't want to hear it? Why? That's ridiculous. I'll speak up for what I believe. Think about a country that follows your standards, everyone goes along with what is popular and doesn't speak up. Yeah, that's a good outcome.

If what I cared about was having popular views, I wouldn't be a libertarian, I'd be a Republican. Then again they're losing too because even the tiniest bit of personal responsibility isn't popular, so let's all just be Democrats. Otherwise we have to advocate things that no one wants to hear, which isn't popular. Shouldn't be done

Oh, I'm the last person here to say someone shouldn't say something.

I'll try to make my point one last time: When you call programs like Medicare and Social Security "socialism", most people are going to say "well, I like those programs, I think they're good for the country, so maybe socialism ain't that bad".

And this is happening right now, before our eyes. Screaming "socialism!" is simply no longer working, and in fact, may be pushing us there faster. Conservatives have been doing liberals a great favor - they're just screaming "socialism" and the liberals are making a case for it.

You're certainly welcome to do that.
.

In reality, conservatives have been saying we to fix Medicare and Social Security because it isn't sustainable. You hear screaming because that's what you do.

Kaz says that Medicare and Social Security are socialism. Take it up with him.

If you want to pretend he's the only one who says that, great.
.