A socialist hell on earth

[defcon4]

Free college is like free public education K - 12. You've just added some years to it. How hard is that?

Germany has one of the highest standards of living in the world. If you want to argue that Germany could improve itself as a nation if it would get rid of that free college,

by all means, go ahead, make that argument.

Are you aware of the fact that to enroll into "free college" is based on academic achievement? You have to have a certain GPA to be qualified for an entry test of admittance. So, socialists are not talking about that over here because the dumbed down crowd would be disappointed and not supportive of it.

 

[Iceweasel]

Free college is like free public education K - 12. You've just added some years to it. How hard is that?

Germany has one of the highest standards of living in the world. If you want to argue that Germany could improve itself as a nation if it would get rid of that free college,

by all means, go ahead, make that argument.

College is very expensive these days, and where do you get the Germany has a higher standard of living shit from? Have you ever lived there? How many Germans live in huge houses with three car garages filled up?

If you want to fund someone's college who is stopping you? Libs want to make their pet projects the law of the land.

As far as trade school, well they used to start them out in shop class but it's more important to teach them gender irrelevance I guess. You bet corporations would help fund them though, it can be handled with private funds, no need to rape the people for something Johnny may not even want.

 

[Iceweasel]

Euphemisms aren't going to win the day either though. Democrats are socialists. Social security and medicare are socialism. Describing things correctly isn't necessarily about winning an election

I have no doubt that the Democrats would love nothing more than to have you call such popular programs socialism, and argue against them.

That's what I've been saying. People will hear Social Security and Medicare called "socialism", and they'll say "well, I guess I like socialism".

Is that what you want? Or do you really think you're going to talk people out of their Social Security and Medicare?
.

So I couldn't call socialism socialism and I shouldn't oppose dependency programs like social security and medicare because people don't want to hear it? Why? That's ridiculous. I'll speak up for what I believe. Think about a country that follows your standards, everyone goes along with what is popular and doesn't speak up. Yeah, that's a good outcome.

If what I cared about was having popular views, I wouldn't be a libertarian, I'd be a Republican. Then again they're losing too because even the tiniest bit of personal responsibility isn't popular, so let's all just be Democrats. Otherwise we have to advocate things that no one wants to hear, which isn't popular. Shouldn't be done

Oh, I'm the last person here to say someone shouldn't say something.

I'll try to make my point one last time: When you call programs like Medicare and Social Security "socialism", most people are going to say "well, I like those programs, I think they're good for the country, so maybe socialism ain't that bad".

And this is happening right now, before our eyes. Screaming "socialism!" is simply no longer working, and in fact, may be pushing us there faster. Conservatives have been doing liberals a great favor - they're just screaming "socialism" and the liberals are making a case for it.

You're certainly welcome to do that.
.

In reality, conservatives have been saying we to fix Medicare and Social Security because it isn't sustainable. You hear screaming because that's what you do.

Kaz says that Medicare and Social Security are socialism. Take it up with him.

If you want to pretend he's the only one who says that, great.
.

It's doesn't work that way Sheila. We don't talk shit and try to blame it on somebody else.

 

[Theowl32]

I know most Americans do not know it, but we are essentially already living in socialist conditions.



Just watch that. I know it is old and the left wing puppets will only point out that it is "Fox News." They are totally incapable of thinking for themselves as I have mentioned a lot of times.

Just watch that video again even if you have already seen it. We are in a socialist country right now. What the bernie sanders wants is communism. He is an absolute marxist. He knows damn well that he cannot say it. That is what he his, period.

Want the scary version? Look up what the "four olds" were as they were listed under the mao zedong and what ensued after that. Go ahead, look up what they were. Here let me show you.


To Mao the revolution had to be a permanent process, constantly kept alive through unending class struggle. Hidden enemies in the party and intellectual circles had to be identified and removed. Conceived of as a "revolution to touch people’s souls," the aim of the Cultural Revolution was to attack the Four Olds-- old ideas, old culture, old customs, and old habits--in order to bring the areas of education, art and literature in line with Communist ideology. Anything that was suspected of being feudal or bourgeois was to be destroyed.

Cultural Revolution

------------------------------------------------------------

Go ahead and see "the rest of the story" and how the "youth" were asked to turn in their own parents. Could never happen here right? Right?

We will all get what we deserve for sitting back and allowing it to happen. If you do not think it is already happening, I suggest you watch that video that you refuse to watch. Along with a lot more stories of strife that the government is causing under this socialist movement. For those of us (me included) that do not think it is already here, are living in a naive state of mind.

It is already here. You think the pathetic left will be satisfied. Here is a clue. The country elected a black president. Did you think the left was going to stop with the victimology divisive narrative as a result? It has gotten worse. It is so insidious that they have somehow convinced their worthless followers that things have never been worse for blacks in this country.

Oh, the day they are able to confiscate our guns, it won't be long after that, that many will be rounded up and "sent away" to some place. Maybe in a hundred years or so they will find the mass graves with our bones in them. Maybe.

You think I am kidding? Could not happen here, right? Right?

 

[Mac1958]

I have no doubt that the Democrats would love nothing more than to have you call such popular programs socialism, and argue against them.

That's what I've been saying. People will hear Social Security and Medicare called "socialism", and they'll say "well, I guess I like socialism".

Is that what you want? Or do you really think you're going to talk people out of their Social Security and Medicare?
.

So I couldn't call socialism socialism and I shouldn't oppose dependency programs like social security and medicare because people don't want to hear it? Why? That's ridiculous. I'll speak up for what I believe. Think about a country that follows your standards, everyone goes along with what is popular and doesn't speak up. Yeah, that's a good outcome.

If what I cared about was having popular views, I wouldn't be a libertarian, I'd be a Republican. Then again they're losing too because even the tiniest bit of personal responsibility isn't popular, so let's all just be Democrats. Otherwise we have to advocate things that no one wants to hear, which isn't popular. Shouldn't be done

Oh, I'm the last person here to say someone shouldn't say something.

I'll try to make my point one last time: When you call programs like Medicare and Social Security "socialism", most people are going to say "well, I like those programs, I think they're good for the country, so maybe socialism ain't that bad".

And this is happening right now, before our eyes. Screaming "socialism!" is simply no longer working, and in fact, may be pushing us there faster. Conservatives have been doing liberals a great favor - they're just screaming "socialism" and the liberals are making a case for it.

You're certainly welcome to do that.
.

In reality, conservatives have been saying we to fix Medicare and Social Security because it isn't sustainable. You hear screaming because that's what you do.

Kaz says that Medicare and Social Security are socialism. Take it up with him.

If you want to pretend he's the only one who says that, great.
.

It's doesn't work that way Sheila. We don't talk shit and try to blame it on somebody else.

I guess you don't want to take it up with Kaz.

Can't blame you.

This whole thread is about people trying to pretend the Democrats want to turn America into Cuba and Venezuela. Keep running with that, you're doing great.
.

 

[NYcarbineer]

Free college is like free public education K - 12. You've just added some years to it. How hard is that?

Germany has one of the highest standards of living in the world. If you want to argue that Germany could improve itself as a nation if it would get rid of that free college,

by all means, go ahead, make that argument.

I'd have no problem with that.

You're starting an argument with yourself. If all you want is an extra couple years thrown into the system, I'd be okay with that. Kinda like a French Baccalaureate.

How about some Trade Schools like the Germans have? I'd be down with that, too.

A couple extra years to teach kids how to weld, fabricate, machine, cook, repair -- Whatever.

What's wrong with that?

I've already said somewhere that that should be part of it. We have a whole vocational training system of schools in NY at the high school level that teach welding electrical culinary cosmetology, nursing, automotive etc.
I've also said that every HS degree should require the successful training in at least one 'marketable skill' of that nature.

 

[Edgetho]

Free college is like free public education K - 12. You've just added some years to it. How hard is that?

Germany has one of the highest standards of living in the world. If you want to argue that Germany could improve itself as a nation if it would get rid of that free college,

by all means, go ahead, make that argument.

I'd have no problem with that.

You're starting an argument with yourself. If all you want is an extra couple years thrown into the system, I'd be okay with that. Kinda like a French Baccalaureate.

How about some Trade Schools like the Germans have? I'd be down with that, too.

A couple extra years to teach kids how to weld, fabricate, machine, cook, repair -- Whatever.

What's wrong with that?

I've already said somewhere that that should be part of it. We have a whole vocational training system of schools in NY at the high school level that teach welding electrical culinary cosmetology, nursing, automotive etc.
I've also said that every HS degree should require the successful training in at least one 'marketable skill' of that nature.

As long as they're kept private, I got no problem with it.

But I know dimocraps. I know what kind of SCUM they are.

They will have Union SCUM in there within minutes.

THAT is what I'm against.

I'm telling you, you have NO idea how bad government is. You have no idea.

And it isn't necessarily government that's the problem. It's their Unions.

The employees are lazy, incompetent, stupid, uncaring, defiant, surly, entitlement assholes.

There is a reason why we are 30th out of the 30 OECD Nations in education......

It isn't Teachers, per se. It's their Unions.

You can't fire goobermint employees. You can't fire Teachers with Tenure.

You guys don't get it. It isn't the government so much as the incompetence that goes with EVERYTHING the government touches.

THAT is what we're afraid of.

And now, with the TOTAL takeover of dimocrap scum of our Universities, THEY are going to shit as well.

We no longer have the best Engineering Schools in the world. We no long have the best science or medical schools, the best technology schools (what's the acronym for that?)

Sure, we have schools ranked highly in shit like poetry and arts. But those are totally subjective rankings and, frankly, useless.

If you can find a way to make government accountable, I'll be on your side.

But I have no fear of that ever happening.

You simply have NO idea how incompetent government is in everything they do. Except the Military. And the Military is fairly independent. The government gives them a mission and ROE and they do a pretty good job. They win.

It's government that gives away their victories.

Government is incompetent beyond belief. And that will never change, IMO.

If you can guarantee me that Unions and government workers will be excluded from the advanced education, I'll be all over it.

But you can't. You don't want to.

In fact, it's part of your plan. It's what you want.

 

[Seawytch]

A lot of our elected offices don't have term limits. Does that make us a dictatorship?

You don't understand the meaning of the word 'dictatorship' do you?

Try looking it up.

(it goes back to Rome, BTW. Start there)

I do. You don't seem to though when you insist that Venezuela is one simply because they got rid of term limits. Where is that in the definition of dictatorship?

 

[Theowl32]

Yeah, just for the fucking liberals who love to point to "Norway" as a great socialist "success."

You stupid left wing morons, are fucking morons. Do you know that?

“We should look to countries like Denmark, like Sweden and Norway, and learn from what they have accomplished for their working people,” Sanders said. When the moderator turned to Hillary Clinton, she agreed that America has to “save capitalism from itself” and that, yes, Scandinavia is great. “I love Denmark,” declared Clinton. It was the only time in the debate a candidate uttered the verb “love.”

No, Bernie Sanders, Scandinavia is not a socialist utopia - The Boston Globe

You can hear the left chide in......

But but but, the UN said Norway was the best place to live.........

The UN. (snicker)

 

[Edgetho]

Here's the system that dimocraps want to turn more of our childrens' future over to --

U.S. education spending tops global list, study shows

The United States spends more than other developed nations on its students' education each year, with parents and private foundations picking up more of the costs, an international survey released Tuesday found.....

The United States spent more than $11,000 per elementary student in 2010 and more than $12,000 per high school student. When researchers factored in the cost for programs after high school education such as college or vocational training, the United States spent $15,171 on each young person in the system — more than any other nation covered in the report.

As a share of its economy, the United States spent more than the average country in the survey.....

The Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development — which groups the world's most developed countries — writes in its annual report that brand-new and experienced teachers alike in the United States out-earn most of their counterparts around the globe.....

The Program for International Student Assessment measurement found the United States ranked 31st in math

 

[kaz]

There's a difference between: Is Bernie advocating turning us into Cuba now And When would Bernie stop moving left so that we don't become Cuba. The first may be true, but the answer to the second is never. That's generally what Democrats do.

Okay, I think that's a perfectly valid point, and I share the concern that they would go too far, the slippery slope argument. We often tend to knee-jerk and overshoot.

So whether you want to either reverse this course or at least mitigate it, you'll need to offer a clear, strong alternative argument. But I definitely don't think the word "socialism" is going to scare anyone any more.
.

Euphemisms aren't going to win the day either though. Democrats are socialists. Social security and medicare are socialism. Describing things correctly isn't necessarily about winning an election

I have no doubt that the Democrats would love nothing more than to have you call such popular programs socialism, and argue against them.

That's what I've been saying. People will hear Social Security and Medicare called "socialism", and they'll say "well, I guess I like socialism".

Is that what you want? Or do you really think you're going to talk people out of their Social Security and Medicare?
.

So I couldn't call socialism socialism and I shouldn't oppose dependency programs like social security and medicare because people don't want to hear it? Why? That's ridiculous. I'll speak up for what I believe. Think about a country that follows your standards, everyone goes along with what is popular and doesn't speak up. Yeah, that's a good outcome.

If what I cared about was having popular views, I wouldn't be a libertarian, I'd be a Republican. Then again they're losing too because even the tiniest bit of personal responsibility isn't popular, so let's all just be Democrats. Otherwise we have to advocate things that no one wants to hear, which isn't popular. Shouldn't be done

Oh, I'm the last person here to say someone shouldn't say something.

I'll try to make my point one last time: When you call programs like Medicare and Social Security "socialism", most people are going to say "well, I like those programs, I think they're good for the country, so maybe socialism ain't that bad".

And this is happening right now, before our eyes. Screaming "socialism!" is simply no longer working, and in fact, may be pushing us there faster. Conservatives have been doing liberals a great favor - they're just screaming "socialism" and the liberals are making a case for it.

You're certainly welcome to do that.
.

I'm not a conservative, i'm a libertarian. And I understand what you are saying just fine, and I directly addressed it. If you like socialist programs like social security and medicare that's fine, if everyone likes them that's fine. But they are socialism. I don't see what's gained by not calling socialism what it is.

If people like socialism and just don't want to call it that, are they really going to be swayed from other socialist policies just because we call socialist policies they like socialist?

This country is well on it's way to European socialism. I'm in Europe writing this now actually in the Netherlands. I don't see any word game dissuading anyone from that. The majority of Americans are socialist now. Whether or not they get used to the word isn't going to change their policies.

 

[Flash]

Bernies plans are nothing like the type of Socialism instituted in Venezuela.

Bullshit!

All the Socialist dickheads say that. They claim that they can somehow make socialism work this time but it always fails.

This stupid idea that a nation is somehow more prosperous when you take money from those that earned it and give it to those that didn't earn it is one of the great scams of mankind.

"Their ain't no such thing as a free lunch". Libtards have a very difficult time understanding that simple concept, even when it is explained to them.

 

[Flash]

What might manifest in Venezuela has nothing whatsoever to do with Sanders' policies.

Left Wing bullshit is trying to claim that Bernie's socialism is somehow different that other failed socialism programs.

Bernie's stupidity is the same as what was manifested in Venezuela. Use the force of government to steal money from those that earned it and give it away to those that didn't earn it.

Bernie, being a Moon Bat, doesn't understand that the government is what prevents prosperity. The idiot thinks that somehow prosperity is magically created through government sponsored thievery.

 

[Edgetho]

I'm not a conservative, i'm a libertarian. And I understand what you are saying just fine, and I directly addressed it. If you like socialist programs like social security and medicare that's fine, if everyone likes them that's fine. But they are socialism.

That's idiotic. No, they are not 'socialism'

It is NOT socialist to make YOU pay for your OWN retirement and your OWN Medical care after retirement.

That's just stupidity.

You people need to leave the 'S' word alone. You have NO clue what it means.

None.

 

[Flash]

Socialist always make the claim that their brand of socialism will somehow be successful when the record clearly shows that it has failed every place else.

Idiots!

 

[Flash]

Benie Sanders is a nitwit that doesn't have a clue how to pay for all that free crap he is promising the gullible and greedy Moon Bats that support him.

Just like Hugo Chavez didn't have a clue how to pay for all the free crap he was promising the gullible and greedy Venezuelans that put him in power.

All these greedy Moon Bats think they can't get somebody else to pay their bills for them and it will somehow be be paradise. Dumbasses.

 

[kaz]

So I couldn't call socialism socialism and I shouldn't oppose dependency programs like social security and medicare because people don't want to hear it? Why? That's ridiculous. I'll speak up for what I believe. Think about a country that follows your standards, everyone goes along with what is popular and doesn't speak up. Yeah, that's a good outcome.

If what I cared about was having popular views, I wouldn't be a libertarian, I'd be a Republican. Then again they're losing too because even the tiniest bit of personal responsibility isn't popular, so let's all just be Democrats. Otherwise we have to advocate things that no one wants to hear, which isn't popular. Shouldn't be done

Oh, I'm the last person here to say someone shouldn't say something.

I'll try to make my point one last time: When you call programs like Medicare and Social Security "socialism", most people are going to say "well, I like those programs, I think they're good for the country, so maybe socialism ain't that bad".

And this is happening right now, before our eyes. Screaming "socialism!" is simply no longer working, and in fact, may be pushing us there faster. Conservatives have been doing liberals a great favor - they're just screaming "socialism" and the liberals are making a case for it.

You're certainly welcome to do that.
.

In reality, conservatives have been saying we to fix Medicare and Social Security because it isn't sustainable. You hear screaming because that's what you do.

Kaz says that Medicare and Social Security are socialism. Take it up with him.

If you want to pretend he's the only one who says that, great.
.

It's doesn't work that way Sheila. We don't talk shit and try to blame it on somebody else.

I guess you don't want to take it up with Kaz.

Can't blame you.

This whole thread is about people trying to pretend the Democrats want to turn America into Cuba and Venezuela. Keep running with that, you're doing great.
.

Strawman,

I agreed that if you asked them they don't want to do that. What I said was they will never stop, that will be the end result.

So when you said I said the Democrats "want to" turn us into Cuba, that was a lie

 

[kaz]

I'm not a conservative, i'm a libertarian. And I understand what you are saying just fine, and I directly addressed it. If you like socialist programs like social security and medicare that's fine, if everyone likes them that's fine. But they are socialism.

That's idiotic. No, they are not 'socialism'

It is NOT socialist to make YOU pay for your OWN retirement and your OWN Medical care after retirement.

That's just stupidity.

You people need to leave the 'S' word alone. You have NO clue what it means.

None.

No one is paying for their own retirement with social security. There is no trust fun. The money was spent as it was brought in, nothing was left to us by our parents. Zero. So here's what you're saying:

1) General revenue: Government spends money, taxes my generation for the bills. that is not a trust fun

2) Social security: Government spends money, taxes my generation for the bills. that is a trust fun.

That's ridiculous.

Social security is pure redistribution of money. I'm paying for my parents, they saved zero. Doing the same thing to my kids isn't me saving money either. I don't want to do that to them even though my parents did it to me

 

[NYcarbineer]

I'm not a conservative, i'm a libertarian. And I understand what you are saying just fine, and I directly addressed it. If you like socialist programs like social security and medicare that's fine, if everyone likes them that's fine. But they are socialism.

That's idiotic. No, they are not 'socialism'

It is NOT socialist to make YOU pay for your OWN retirement and your OWN Medical care after retirement.

That's just stupidity.

You people need to leave the 'S' word alone. You have NO clue what it means.

None.

No one is paying for their own retirement with social security. There is no trust fun. The money was spent as it was brought in, nothing was left to us by our parents. Zero. So here's what you're saying:

1) General revenue: Government spends money, taxes my generation for the bills. that is not a trust fun

2) Social security: Government spends money, taxes my generation for the bills. that is a trust fun.

That's ridiculous.

Social security is pure redistribution of money. I'm paying for my parents, they saved zero. Doing the same thing to my kids isn't me saving money either. I don't want to do that to them even though my parents did it to me

Wrong, as usual. The Trust Fund is invested. It draws interest. It holds bonds.

 

[NYcarbineer]

Free college is like free public education K - 12. You've just added some years to it. How hard is that?

Germany has one of the highest standards of living in the world. If you want to argue that Germany could improve itself as a nation if it would get rid of that free college,

by all means, go ahead, make that argument.

I'd have no problem with that.

You're starting an argument with yourself. If all you want is an extra couple years thrown into the system, I'd be okay with that. Kinda like a French Baccalaureate.

How about some Trade Schools like the Germans have? I'd be down with that, too.

A couple extra years to teach kids how to weld, fabricate, machine, cook, repair -- Whatever.

What's wrong with that?

I've already said somewhere that that should be part of it. We have a whole vocational training system of schools in NY at the high school level that teach welding electrical culinary cosmetology, nursing, automotive etc.
I've also said that every HS degree should require the successful training in at least one 'marketable skill' of that nature.

As long as they're kept private, I got no problem with it.

But I know dimocraps. I know what kind of SCUM they are.

They will have Union SCUM in there within minutes.

THAT is what I'm against.

I'm telling you, you have NO idea how bad government is. You have no idea.

And it isn't necessarily government that's the problem. It's their Unions.

The employees are lazy, incompetent, stupid, uncaring, defiant, surly, entitlement assholes.

There is a reason why we are 30th out of the 30 OECD Nations in education......

It isn't Teachers, per se. It's their Unions.

You can't fire goobermint employees. You can't fire Teachers with Tenure.

You guys don't get it. It isn't the government so much as the incompetence that goes with EVERYTHING the government touches.

THAT is what we're afraid of.

And now, with the TOTAL takeover of dimocrap scum of our Universities, THEY are going to shit as well.

We no longer have the best Engineering Schools in the world. We no long have the best science or medical schools, the best technology schools (what's the acronym for that?)

Sure, we have schools ranked highly in shit like poetry and arts. But those are totally subjective rankings and, frankly, useless.

If you can find a way to make government accountable, I'll be on your side.

But I have no fear of that ever happening.

You simply have NO idea how incompetent government is in everything they do. Except the Military. And the Military is fairly independent. The government gives them a mission and ROE and they do a pretty good job. They win.

It's government that gives away their victories.

Government is incompetent beyond belief. And that will never change, IMO.

If you can guarantee me that Unions and government workers will be excluded from the advanced education, I'll be all over it.

But you can't. You don't want to.

In fact, it's part of your plan. It's what you want.

Our vocational schools are state schools. Government schools.