A World Without Capitalism and Tradable Shares?

f not capitalism and free markets then what?
My link is a four-minute read:mad:

Opinion | A world without capitalism is not too hard to envision

LOL - "As Marx foretold ..." - love the reverent tone.

"Imagine that shares resemble electoral votes, which can be neither bought nor sold.

"Like students who receive a library card upon registration, new staff receive a single share granting a single vote to be cast in all-shareholder ballots deciding every matter of the corporation, from management and planning issues to the distribution of net revenues and bonuses.

So everyone gets an equal say. Steve Jobs has exactly as much influence as Carrot Top. Lovely.

"Workers move freely from company to company ...

Huh? How does this work? Are companies obligated to take on employees who want to "freely" move from company to company? Are they allowed to reject some and accept others?
 
Corporations do what they are allowed to do. We need strong government to keep them in line. Right now they buy the government.
According to some recent reading, US railroads had more revenue than the federal government in the decades between the Civil War and Teddy Roosevelt's Administration. Corporate executives regularly ran for high public office then used their positions to enhance their private fortunes. If that's true, it sheds new light on the shadow business casts on society:
quote-politics-is-the-shadow-cast-on-society-by-big-business-john-dewey-136-97-36.jpg
 
Corporations do what they are allowed to do. We need strong government to keep them in line. Right now they buy the government.
According to some recent reading, US railroads had more revenue than the federal government in the decades between the Civil War and Teddy Roosevelt's Administration. Corporate executives regularly ran for high public office then used their positions to enhance their private fortunes. If that's true, it sheds new light on the shadow business casts on society:
quote-politics-is-the-shadow-cast-on-society-by-big-business-john-dewey-136-97-36.jpg

They were also more useful.
 
Hmmm... sucks to have ability.
Depends what ability you have.

From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs - Wikipedia

"The principle refers to free access to and distribution of goods, capital and services.[3]

"In the Marxist view, such an arrangement will be made possible by the abundance of goods and services that a developed communist system will be capable to produce; the idea is that, with the full development of socialism and unfettered productive forces, there will be enough to satisfy everyone's needs.[4][5]"
 
According to some recent reading, US railroads had more revenue than the federal government in the decades between the Civil War and Teddy Roosevelt's Administration.

In a free market, and a free society, that's how it ought to be. It's not the role of government to maximize revenue.

Corporate executives regularly ran for high public office then used their positions to enhance their private fortunes. If that's true, it sheds new light on the shadow business casts on society:

Right. That's why government must remain limited in scope and reach. Otherwise it's just another vehicle for avarice.
 
Last edited:
Do you propose to make selling your shares illegal?
I think it has more to do with re-defining corporate ownership:

Opinion | A world without capitalism is not too hard to envision

"Unless we are willing to ban tradable shares, we will make no appreciable difference to the distribution of wealth and power today.

"To imagine what transcending capitalism might mean in practice requires rethinking the ownership of corporations.

"Imagine that shares resemble electoral votes, which can be neither bought nor sold.

"Like students who receive a library card upon registration, new staff receive a single share granting a single vote to be cast in all-shareholder ballots deciding every matter of the corporation, from management and planning issues to the distribution of net revenues and bonuses."
 
Do you propose to make selling your shares illegal?
I think it has more to do with re-defining corporate ownership:

Opinion | A world without capitalism is not too hard to envision

"Unless we are willing to ban tradable shares, we will make no appreciable difference to the distribution of wealth and power today.

"To imagine what transcending capitalism might mean in practice requires rethinking the ownership of corporations.

"Imagine that shares resemble electoral votes, which can be neither bought nor sold.

"Like students who receive a library card upon registration, new staff receive a single share granting a single vote to be cast in all-shareholder ballots deciding every matter of the corporation, from management and planning issues to the distribution of net revenues and bonuses."

Copy and paste for the win!

Do you propose to make selling your shares illegal?
 
Last edited:
Imagine people unable to invest their money so they can pay their way when they can no longer work.

The government can just shoot you when you become a "useless eater", eh?
Retirements could be funded without massive speculation like we see in today's "free market."

How would levels of consumer and corporate debt and business "cycles" be affected by non-tradable shares?


Opinion | A world without capitalism is not too hard to envision

"Unprecedented new debt was thus created to transfer value to the present, in the hope of profiting sufficiently to repay the future.

"Mega-finance, mega-equity, mega-pension funds, and mega-financial crises were the logical outcome.

"The crashes of 1929 and 2008, the unstoppable rise of Big Tech, and all the other ingredients of today’s discontent with capitalism, became inescapable."
 
f not capitalism and free markets then what?
My link is a four-minute read:mad:

Opinion | A world without capitalism is not too hard to envision

"Imagine that shares resemble electoral votes, which can be neither bought nor sold.

"Like students who receive a library card upon registration, new staff receive a single share granting a single vote to be cast in all-shareholder ballots deciding every matter of the corporation, from management and planning issues to the distribution of net revenues and bonuses.

"Suddenly, the profit-wage distinction makes no sense and corporations are cut down to size, boosting market competition

"When a baby is born, the central bank automatically grants her or him a trust fund (or personal capital account) that is periodically topped up with a universal basic dividend.

"When the child becomes a teenager, the central bank throws in a free checking account.

"Workers move freely from company to company, carrying with them their trust-fund capital, which they may lend to the company they work in or to others.

"Because there are no equities to turbocharge with massive fictitious capital, finance becomes delightfully boring—and stable.

"States drop all personal and sales taxes, instead taxing only corporate revenues, land, and activities detrimental to the commons."

Imagine that shares resemble electoral votes, which can be neither bought nor sold.

How would a company ever exist to begin with, without the money to buy the property, build the buildings, buy or have built the machinery, and setup all the work stations?

Where does that money come from? Because the typical way to getting that capital, is by selling shares of the company, but you just said they can't be bought or sold, thus no one would have any reason to give money to a company.

When a baby is born, the central bank automatically grants her or him a trust fund (or personal capital account) that is periodically topped up with a universal basic dividend.


Why would I work, if I'm going to get paid to stay home?

Workers move freely from company to company, carrying with them their trust-fund capital, which they may lend to the company they work in or to others.

Why would I do that? Why wouldn't I use the money myself?

Because there are no equities to turbocharge with massive fictitious capital, finance becomes delightfully boring—and stable.

Well that's true, that if you destroy the banking system, the banking system won't have any problems. I agree with that.

But that would also ignore the fact that you will harm the reallocation of resources. Meaning, that one thing banks do, is move resources from investors to producers.

For example, the whole reason mortgage backed securities exist, is because government created securities to sell, which then allows banks to gain capital to make mortgages.

If you eliminate that system, which is what you are suggesting, the result would be far fewer mortgages. Which means people will not afford homes. Are you ok with that? Only the rich and wealthy will be able to afford homes, because no banks are going to be giving mortgages to people. Is that what you want?

"States drop all personal and sales taxes, instead taxing only corporate revenues, land, and activities detrimental to the commons."

Not possible. Total corporate profits for 2019, were roughly $2.13 Trillion dollars. Even if you taxed corporations 100%, you would not even have enough money for Medicare and Social Security.

Further, with high taxes would cause most companies to move money out of the country.

So the more you rely exclusively on corporations for tax revenue, the less corporate tax revenue that you will have.

By the way, you realize that every single corporation could be taken private. How would fund the government, when all the corporations disappear?
 
Some things do not have an infinite supply (as in a beautiful mansion overlooking the Pacific in Malibu.) What is your answer when 100M people all decide they want that mansion too. Utopia is a fairy tale.
I don't know how a reformed capitalism without tradable shares would affect demand for luxury goods. I think the overwhelming majority of consumers would benefit from an economy that distributed goods and service based on need instead of ability to pay.
6d53e6db2b4878bf34caad5f0119f075.jpg

From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs - Wikipedia

Then why has no economy anywhere in the world, which engaged in such a system, ever resulted in something better than capitalism?
 
Do you propose to make selling your shares illegal?
I think it has more to do with re-defining corporate ownership:

Opinion | A world without capitalism is not too hard to envision

"Unless we are willing to ban tradable shares, we will make no appreciable difference to the distribution of wealth and power today.

"To imagine what transcending capitalism might mean in practice requires rethinking the ownership of corporations.

"Imagine that shares resemble electoral votes, which can be neither bought nor sold.

"Like students who receive a library card upon registration, new staff receive a single share granting a single vote to be cast in all-shareholder ballots deciding every matter of the corporation, from management and planning issues to the distribution of net revenues and bonuses."

"Like students who receive a library card upon registration, new staff receive a single share granting a single vote to be cast in all-shareholder ballots deciding every matter of the corporation, from management and planning issues to the distribution of net revenues and bonuses."

"Hey, do you guys want to vote for a $10,000 bonus?"

"Dude, let's make it $20,000"

"Dude!"

"DUDE!!"
 
Do you propose to make selling your shares illegal?
I think it has more to do with re-defining corporate ownership:

Opinion | A world without capitalism is not too hard to envision

"Unless we are willing to ban tradable shares, we will make no appreciable difference to the distribution of wealth and power today.

"To imagine what transcending capitalism might mean in practice requires rethinking the ownership of corporations.

"Imagine that shares resemble electoral votes, which can be neither bought nor sold.

"Like students who receive a library card upon registration, new staff receive a single share granting a single vote to be cast in all-shareholder ballots deciding every matter of the corporation, from management and planning issues to the distribution of net revenues and bonuses."

Copy and paste for the win!

Do you propose to make selling your shares illegal?

You can't buy them or sell them......or take them with you when you quit.
 
Imagine people unable to invest their money so they can pay their way when they can no longer work.

The government can just shoot you when you become a "useless eater", eh?
Retirements could be funded without massive speculation like we see in today's "free market."

How would levels of consumer and corporate debt and business "cycles" be affected by non-tradable shares?


Opinion | A world without capitalism is not too hard to envision

"Unprecedented new debt was thus created to transfer value to the present, in the hope of profiting sufficiently to repay the future.

"Mega-finance, mega-equity, mega-pension funds, and mega-financial crises were the logical outcome.

"The crashes of 1929 and 2008, the unstoppable rise of Big Tech, and all the other ingredients of today’s discontent with capitalism, became inescapable."

Retirements could be funded without massive speculation like we see in today's "free market."

How?
 
f not capitalism and free markets then what?
My link is a four-minute read:mad:

Opinion | A world without capitalism is not too hard to envision

"Imagine that shares resemble electoral votes, which can be neither bought nor sold.

"Like students who receive a library card upon registration, new staff receive a single share granting a single vote to be cast in all-shareholder ballots deciding every matter of the corporation, from management and planning issues to the distribution of net revenues and bonuses.

"Suddenly, the profit-wage distinction makes no sense and corporations are cut down to size, boosting market competition

"When a baby is born, the central bank automatically grants her or him a trust fund (or personal capital account) that is periodically topped up with a universal basic dividend.

"When the child becomes a teenager, the central bank throws in a free checking account.

"Workers move freely from company to company, carrying with them their trust-fund capital, which they may lend to the company they work in or to others.

"Because there are no equities to turbocharge with massive fictitious capital, finance becomes delightfully boring—and stable.

"States drop all personal and sales taxes, instead taxing only corporate revenues, land, and activities detrimental to the commons."

Imagine that shares resemble electoral votes, which can be neither bought nor sold.

How would a company ever exist to begin with, without the money to buy the property, build the buildings, buy or have built the machinery, and setup all the work stations?

Where does that money come from? Because the typical way to getting that capital, is by selling shares of the company, but you just said they can't be bought or sold, thus no one would have any reason to give money to a company.

When a baby is born, the central bank automatically grants her or him a trust fund (or personal capital account) that is periodically topped up with a universal basic dividend.

Why would I work, if I'm going to get paid to stay home?

Workers move freely from company to company, carrying with them their trust-fund capital, which they may lend to the company they work in or to others.

Why would I do that? Why wouldn't I use the money myself?

Because there are no equities to turbocharge with massive fictitious capital, finance becomes delightfully boring—and stable.

Well that's true, that if you destroy the banking system, the banking system won't have any problems. I agree with that.

But that would also ignore the fact that you will harm the reallocation of resources. Meaning, that one thing banks do, is move resources from investors to producers.

For example, the whole reason mortgage backed securities exist, is because government created securities to sell, which then allows banks to gain capital to make mortgages.

If you eliminate that system, which is what you are suggesting, the result would be far fewer mortgages. Which means people will not afford homes. Are you ok with that? Only the rich and wealthy will be able to afford homes, because no banks are going to be giving mortgages to people. Is that what you want?

"States drop all personal and sales taxes, instead taxing only corporate revenues, land, and activities detrimental to the commons."

Not possible. Total corporate profits for 2019, were roughly $2.13 Trillion dollars. Even if you taxed corporations 100%, you would not even have enough money for Medicare and Social Security.

Further, with high taxes would cause most companies to move money out of the country.

So the more you rely exclusively on corporations for tax revenue, the less corporate tax revenue that you will have.

By the way, you realize that every single corporation could be taken private. How would fund the government, when all the corporations disappear?

"States drop all personal and sales taxes, instead taxing only corporate revenues, land, and activities detrimental to the commons."

Not possible. Total corporate profits for 2019, were roughly $2.13 Trillion dollars. Even if you taxed corporations 100%, you would not even have enough money for Medicare and Social Security.

He wants to tax revenues (sales).
 
Your link:

"Were the Nazis socialists? No, not in any meaningful way, and certainly not after 1934. But to address this canard fully, one must begin with the birth of the party.

"In 1919 a Munich locksmith named Anton Drexler founded the Deutsche Arbeiterpartei (DAP; German Workers’ Party).

"Political parties were still a relatively new phenomenon in Germany, and the DAP—renamed the Nationalsozialistische Deutsche Arbeiterpartei (NSDAP; National Socialist German Workers’ Party, or Nazi Party) in 1920—was one of several fringe players vying for influence in the early years of the Weimar Republic."

Socialism was viewed as an alternative to child labor, mega-monopolies, and imperialism by millions of productive workers around the globe at the time Nazis came into existence; their party would have been born dead if it hadn't included the word "socialism."
mzju44xxqnd41.jpg

 
f not capitalism and free markets then what?
My link is a four-minute read:mad:

Opinion | A world without capitalism is not too hard to envision

"Imagine that shares resemble electoral votes, which can be neither bought nor sold.

"Like students who receive a library card upon registration, new staff receive a single share granting a single vote to be cast in all-shareholder ballots deciding every matter of the corporation, from management and planning issues to the distribution of net revenues and bonuses.

"Suddenly, the profit-wage distinction makes no sense and corporations are cut down to size, boosting market competition

"When a baby is born, the central bank automatically grants her or him a trust fund (or personal capital account) that is periodically topped up with a universal basic dividend.

"When the child becomes a teenager, the central bank throws in a free checking account.

"Workers move freely from company to company, carrying with them their trust-fund capital, which they may lend to the company they work in or to others.

"Because there are no equities to turbocharge with massive fictitious capital, finance becomes delightfully boring—and stable.

"States drop all personal and sales taxes, instead taxing only corporate revenues, land, and activities detrimental to the commons."

Imagine that shares resemble electoral votes, which can be neither bought nor sold.

How would a company ever exist to begin with, without the money to buy the property, build the buildings, buy or have built the machinery, and setup all the work stations?

Where does that money come from? Because the typical way to getting that capital, is by selling shares of the company, but you just said they can't be bought or sold, thus no one would have any reason to give money to a company.

When a baby is born, the central bank automatically grants her or him a trust fund (or personal capital account) that is periodically topped up with a universal basic dividend.

Why would I work, if I'm going to get paid to stay home?

Workers move freely from company to company, carrying with them their trust-fund capital, which they may lend to the company they work in or to others.

Why would I do that? Why wouldn't I use the money myself?

Because there are no equities to turbocharge with massive fictitious capital, finance becomes delightfully boring—and stable.

Well that's true, that if you destroy the banking system, the banking system won't have any problems. I agree with that.

But that would also ignore the fact that you will harm the reallocation of resources. Meaning, that one thing banks do, is move resources from investors to producers.

For example, the whole reason mortgage backed securities exist, is because government created securities to sell, which then allows banks to gain capital to make mortgages.

If you eliminate that system, which is what you are suggesting, the result would be far fewer mortgages. Which means people will not afford homes. Are you ok with that? Only the rich and wealthy will be able to afford homes, because no banks are going to be giving mortgages to people. Is that what you want?

"States drop all personal and sales taxes, instead taxing only corporate revenues, land, and activities detrimental to the commons."

Not possible. Total corporate profits for 2019, were roughly $2.13 Trillion dollars. Even if you taxed corporations 100%, you would not even have enough money for Medicare and Social Security.

Further, with high taxes would cause most companies to move money out of the country.

So the more you rely exclusively on corporations for tax revenue, the less corporate tax revenue that you will have.

By the way, you realize that every single corporation could be taken private. How would fund the government, when all the corporations disappear?

"States drop all personal and sales taxes, instead taxing only corporate revenues, land, and activities detrimental to the commons."

Not possible. Total corporate profits for 2019, were roughly $2.13 Trillion dollars. Even if you taxed corporations 100%, you would not even have enough money for Medicare and Social Security.

He wants to tax revenues (sales).

Which is even less possible. If you taxed revenues, most companies would be bankrupt in a year, and that would be the end of that source of tax revenue.
 
f not capitalism and free markets then what?
My link is a four-minute read:mad:

Opinion | A world without capitalism is not too hard to envision

"Imagine that shares resemble electoral votes, which can be neither bought nor sold.

"Like students who receive a library card upon registration, new staff receive a single share granting a single vote to be cast in all-shareholder ballots deciding every matter of the corporation, from management and planning issues to the distribution of net revenues and bonuses.

"Suddenly, the profit-wage distinction makes no sense and corporations are cut down to size, boosting market competition

"When a baby is born, the central bank automatically grants her or him a trust fund (or personal capital account) that is periodically topped up with a universal basic dividend.

"When the child becomes a teenager, the central bank throws in a free checking account.

"Workers move freely from company to company, carrying with them their trust-fund capital, which they may lend to the company they work in or to others.

"Because there are no equities to turbocharge with massive fictitious capital, finance becomes delightfully boring—and stable.

"States drop all personal and sales taxes, instead taxing only corporate revenues, land, and activities detrimental to the commons."

Imagine that shares resemble electoral votes, which can be neither bought nor sold.

How would a company ever exist to begin with, without the money to buy the property, build the buildings, buy or have built the machinery, and setup all the work stations?

Where does that money come from? Because the typical way to getting that capital, is by selling shares of the company, but you just said they can't be bought or sold, thus no one would have any reason to give money to a company.

When a baby is born, the central bank automatically grants her or him a trust fund (or personal capital account) that is periodically topped up with a universal basic dividend.

Why would I work, if I'm going to get paid to stay home?

Workers move freely from company to company, carrying with them their trust-fund capital, which they may lend to the company they work in or to others.

Why would I do that? Why wouldn't I use the money myself?

Because there are no equities to turbocharge with massive fictitious capital, finance becomes delightfully boring—and stable.

Well that's true, that if you destroy the banking system, the banking system won't have any problems. I agree with that.

But that would also ignore the fact that you will harm the reallocation of resources. Meaning, that one thing banks do, is move resources from investors to producers.

For example, the whole reason mortgage backed securities exist, is because government created securities to sell, which then allows banks to gain capital to make mortgages.

If you eliminate that system, which is what you are suggesting, the result would be far fewer mortgages. Which means people will not afford homes. Are you ok with that? Only the rich and wealthy will be able to afford homes, because no banks are going to be giving mortgages to people. Is that what you want?

"States drop all personal and sales taxes, instead taxing only corporate revenues, land, and activities detrimental to the commons."

Not possible. Total corporate profits for 2019, were roughly $2.13 Trillion dollars. Even if you taxed corporations 100%, you would not even have enough money for Medicare and Social Security.

Further, with high taxes would cause most companies to move money out of the country.

So the more you rely exclusively on corporations for tax revenue, the less corporate tax revenue that you will have.

By the way, you realize that every single corporation could be taken private. How would fund the government, when all the corporations disappear?

"States drop all personal and sales taxes, instead taxing only corporate revenues, land, and activities detrimental to the commons."

Not possible. Total corporate profits for 2019, were roughly $2.13 Trillion dollars. Even if you taxed corporations 100%, you would not even have enough money for Medicare and Social Security.

He wants to tax revenues (sales).

Which is even less possible. If you taxed revenues, most companies would be bankrupt in a year, and that would be the end of that source of tax revenue.

I want him to explain the difference between a corporate revenue tax and a sales tax, in reality.
 

Forum List

Back
Top