Aborted fetus = Lucky bastard?

[Ravi]

Maybe if you keep off the crack pipe and don't try to assume what my position is...


The fact is that both partners have the same decision to make before, during and after all the sex. If a woman doesn't think that the man will pull his weight in the potential circumstance of a child then she probably shoudn't be fucking this particular dude. If a man doesn't think he will want a child then he'd better make every effort to avoid pregnancy including abstaining from the sex.

Good grief. This is 2008. I'm pretty sure fellatio and cunningulus is routine anyway.

I'm still waiting for you to explain how equality means one person can force another to give birth.

 

[Ravi]

I think you presume a bit much today. show me where ANY parent gets off scott free for abandoning their kid. regardless of the sex of the parent.


oh, and considering the staggering double standard rife in alimony, child support and child custody Im not sure id be acting like the victim with a vagina anytime soon. I CAN provide you with evidence of gender based discrimination that front if you want.

I'm not the one that's advocating forced birth. Because that is what you are advocating here.

 

[manifold]

Maybe if you keep off the crack pipe and don't try to assume what my position is...


The fact is that both partners have the same decision to make before, during and after all the sex. If a woman doesn't think that the man will pull his weight in the potential circumstance of a child then she probably shoudn't be fucking this particular dude. If a man doesn't think he will want a child then he'd better make every effort to avoid pregnancy including abstaining from the sex.

Good grief. This is 2008. I'm pretty sure fellatio and cunningulus is routine anyway.

I agree with all that.

But now let's consider some real life examples (I know pragmatism gives you a migraine headache, but sometimes it's worth it).

1. A woman gets knocked up and wants to have the child but the father wants to terminate. Who's wish should be granted?

1a. If the mother's wish is granted, should the father be absolved of responsibility for the child he doesn't want?

2. A woman gets knocked up and wants to terminate but the father wants her to have the child. Who's wish should be granted?


Please answer these questions honestly so I won't have to make any more assumptions about your position.

 

[Shogun]

I'm still waiting for you to explain how equality means one person can force another to give birth.

that was never my arguement. Are you really going to pull an M14 today?


But, if you really want to dive on in I'd say that the person forcing the other to give birth is the mother who decided to let a man's penis cum inside of her rather than avoiding risky promiscuity. You want to insist that a MAN is forcing a woman to give birth by ignoring the CHOICE that the woman freely made when deciding to fuck. I don't discount the female libido. I am not the type who gives a damn about how much sex a woman wants to have. BUT, if she gets pregnant because she decided to fuck then she is responsible for the pregnancy involved. If, she CHOOSES not to end the pregnancy by the timeframe allowed by law then it's not a man making her give birth, rather, it's her own lack of initiative and yearning to scapegoat some testicles that put her in such a position. Blaming a man is no excuse for crying that you can't get a late term abortion. Crying about semen is no excuse for your own decision to fuck. Like I said, men and women share the SAME choice at point of zipper.

 

[Shogun]

I'm not the one that's advocating forced birth. Because that is what you are advocating here.

No.. IM defending a consistent standard for both sexes PRIOR to the sexual engagement. If you don't want to risk being what you call "forced to give birth" then go love up on your D cell romeo instead of whatever meathead is the catch of the day. This isn't 1946 where you have no perogative in allowing sexual intercourse. Where you are expected to service a man. gimme a break.

 

[Ravi]

that was never my arguement. Are you really going to pull an M14 today?


But, if you really want to dive on in I'd say that the person forcing the other to give birth is the mother who decided to let a man's penis cum inside of her rather than avoiding risky promiscuity. You want to insist that a MAN is forcing a woman to give birth by ignoring the CHOICE that the woman freely made when deciding to fuck. I don't discount the female libido. I am not the type who gives a damn about how much sex a woman wants to have. BUT, if she gets pregnant because she decided to fuck then she is responsible for the pregnancy involved. If, she CHOOSES not to end the pregnancy by the timeframe allowed by law then it's not a man making her give birth, rather, it's her own lack of initiative and yearning to scapegoat some testicles that put her in such a position. Blaming a man is no excuse for crying that you can't get a late term abortion. Crying about semen is no excuse for your own decision to fuck. Like I said, men and women share the SAME choice at point of zipper.

You're the one that's hung up on the man/woman thing. I said how can one person force another to give birth?

The rest of your argument is senseless raving.

 

[Ravi]

No.. IM defending a consistent standard for both sexes PRIOR to the sexual engagement. If you don't want to risk being what you call "forced to give birth" then go love up on your D cell romeo instead of whatever meathead is the catch of the day. This isn't 1946 where you have no perogative in allowing sexual intercourse. Where you are expected to service a man. gimme a break.

ha ha ah ha

You're a jerk, no offense. If you ever have sex, please make your demands clear in advance.

 

[bennylava]

I know you weren't asking me, but I think it's just an unfortunate fact of being a man that if you choose to have sex with someone, you take the risk that you will have to pay child support. If you don't want to do that, don't have sex with anyone you don't want to have children with.

There are things that suck about being a woman, being more vulnerable to the possiblity of rape, having to carry and birth children. And there are things that suck about being a man, like not knowing if your kids are really yours, and having to pay child support. Suck it up.

 

[Shogun]

I agree with all that.

But now let's consider some real life examples (I know pragmatism gives you a migraine headache, but sometimes it's worth it).

1. A woman gets knocked up and wants to have the child but the father wants to terminate. Who's wish should be granted?

1a. If the mother's wish is granted, should the father be absolved of responsibility for the child he doesn't want?

2. A woman gets knocked up and wants to terminate but the father wants her to have the child. Who's wish should be granted?


Please answer these questions honestly so I won't have to make any more assumptions about your position.

1) whats the timeframe involved? If still a zygote/no heartbeat then allow the mother to keep the baby and absolve the father of ALL roles of parenting including custody and support. If a fetus w/ heartbeat, mother keeps the baby, father pays child support and they go to court for custody.

1a) see above

2) If still a zygote the allow termination (after all, disclosing pregnancy is not legally required for pregnant women), if Fetus then mother must carry child to term and sign away all parenting rights to the father.



If you notice, you'll see that both answers facilitate an increased attention to personal responsibility for both sexes. I'd also research the hell out of Fetal transplants and human incubators.

 

[Ravi]

Thanks, Benny. You summed it up nicely.

Some men sure can whine, can't they?

 

[Shogun]

ha ha ah ha

You're a jerk, no offense. If you ever have sex, please make your demands clear in advance.

hey, being responsible is a two say street. If you don't know that before slipping into heat then learn it. Like I said, this is the equality that your bra burning ancestors were fighting for.


But I still think you are a doll, Ravir!

 

[Shogun]

Thanks, Benny. You summed it up nicely.

Some men sure can whine, can't they?

Hey, it's not a man's fault because you get a period, are not as strong as a man, etc etc. This isn't a game where you can trade off your responsibilites just because you have to shave more surface area of your body than I do.

 

[AllieBaba]

You are so disgusting.

 

[Ravi]

Hey, it's not a man's fault because you get a period, are not as strong as a man, etc etc. This isn't a game where you can trade off your responsibilites just because you have to shave more surface area of your body than I do.

What? I understood that you shave your entire body...even your hairy ass.

 

[manifold]

1) whats the timeframe involved? If still a zygote/no heartbeat then allow the mother to keep the baby and absolve the father of ALL roles of parenting including custody and support. If a fetus w/ heartbeat, mother keeps the baby, father pays child support and they go to court for custody.

1a) see above

2) If still a zygote the allow termination (after all, disclosing pregnancy is not legally required for pregnant women), if Fetus then mother must carry child to term and sign away all parenting rights to the father.

So, despite your protestations to the contrary, both Ravi and I have accurately conveyed your position on the matter. The father can absolve himself of responsibility OR the father can force the mother to give birth.

Duly noted.

The really funny part is that you actually call yourself a liberal.

 

[Shogun]

You're the one that's hung up on the man/woman thing. I said how can one person force another to give birth?

The rest of your argument is senseless raving.

now you ARE acting like Baba.


How the hell can you force a man to give birth, Ravir? and you are damn right Im hanging onto the man/woman thing since that is exactly what seperates the options that you seem to thing are different according to genitalia.

 

[Shogun]

What? I understood that you shave your entire body...even your hairy ass.

I'm willing to bet there is more surface area on both of your legs than on my face.. but I digress... Dealing with being a woman isn't a "get out of pregnancy free" card.

 

[Shogun]

So, despite your protestations to the contrary, both Ravi and I have accurately conveyed your position on the matter. The father can absolve himself of responsibility OR the father can force the mother to give birth.

Duly noted.

The really funny part is that you actually call yourself a liberal.

OR, the mother can absolve herself of responsibility OR have the child sans man.


You really would be the one to fuckup the idea that liberals are all about more options, wouldn't you? Heres a hint:

FEMINISM IS NOT A REREQUISITE FOR LIBERALISM.

 

[manifold]

Ahhh, the typical Shogun non-sequitur technique. A sure sign that he knows he has painted himself into a corner.

Just because no woman will have you isn't really a good reason to be a misogynist. In fact, there is no good reason whatsoever.

Just sayin...

 

[AllieBaba]

Now, that's not fair. They share responsibility at conception, they share responsibility down the line.

Nice try, Shogun. Men who screw around and get women pregnant who may not want to abort are still liable for cs. Therefore, it's probably a discussion that should be had before embarking on that drunken encounter.