Abortion rate at lowest level since Roe V Wade

[NightFox]

Sending children off to kill other children over some limited resource doesn't seem a very good reason to bear them, and is much more cruel than abortion might be accused of.

Good point, if we could pick one "problem" to eliminate from human society IMHO war would the no-brainier choice over abortion; while abortion may be a bit murky from a moral standpoint, war is clear, cut, no bones about it a wholly immoral pursuit and raising children as nothing more than meat for the grinder of the warfare state is a purely evil one.

"The idealism of non-aggression and rejecting all offensive use of force should be tried. The idealism of government sanctioned violence has been abused throughout history and is the primary source of poverty and war. The theory of a society being based on individual freedom has been around for a long time. It’s time to take a bold step and actually permit it by advancing this cause, rather than taking a step backwards as some would like us to do." -- Ron Paul

I agree with you on war however, there is nothing moral or immoral about abortion, it is just a procedure that as carried out in America today, terminates the rights of another human without due process.

IMHO the murky moral question(s) that are in contention; what defines and when in the pregnancy is the definition met for a fetus to become a "human" and thus gain natural rights mandating "due process" along with the question regarding the mothers right not to bear the child.

Emotionalizing abortion is a liberal trait.....

Is the fetus human? Yes or no?

I'm an engineer not a biologist or medical doctor so I'd have to say "I don't know for sure" but my personal theory is that the one trait that is irreplaceable for a human being is self-awareness and at some point during a pregnancy the fetus does become self-aware and thus qualifies as a distinct individual human separate from its mother and thus is bequeathed the rights that all humans enjoy.

 

[owebo]

Sending children off to kill other children over some limited resource doesn't seem a very good reason to bear them, and is much more cruel than abortion might be accused of.

Good point, if we could pick one "problem" to eliminate from human society IMHO war would the no-brainier choice over abortion; while abortion may be a bit murky from a moral standpoint, war is clear, cut, no bones about it a wholly immoral pursuit and raising children as nothing more than meat for the grinder of the warfare state is a purely evil one.

"The idealism of non-aggression and rejecting all offensive use of force should be tried. The idealism of government sanctioned violence has been abused throughout history and is the primary source of poverty and war. The theory of a society being based on individual freedom has been around for a long time. It’s time to take a bold step and actually permit it by advancing this cause, rather than taking a step backwards as some would like us to do." -- Ron Paul

I agree with you on war however, there is nothing moral or immoral about abortion, it is just a procedure that as carried out in America today, terminates the rights of another human without due process.

IMHO the murky moral question(s) that are in contention; what defines and when in the pregnancy is the definition met for a fetus to become a "human" and thus gain natural rights mandating "due process" along with the question regarding the mothers right not to bear the child.

Emotionalizing abortion is a liberal trait.....

Is the fetus human? Yes or no?

I'm an engineer not a biologist or medical doctor so I'd have to say "I don't know for sure" but my personal theory is that the one trait that is irreplaceable for a human being is self-awareness and at some point during a pregnancy the fetus does become self-aware and thus qualifies as a distinct individual human separate from its mother and thus is bequeathed the rights that all humans enjoy.

I too am an engineer and I can say with 100% certainty that a human fetus will not turn into a horse, a dog, a cat, a toaster oven, or anything but the human it is....

Again, drop emotion from your analysis and tell me again, is a fetus human? Yes OR no?

 

[there4eyeM]

Please cite evidence that abortion cures ANYTHING except ectopic pregnancy, you moron.

Who is the moron who thinks she is a medical doctor...? Dumb Ass, try looking it up ... Pregnancy always carries a risk.


Severe Maternal Morbidity Indicators and Corresponding ICD-9-CM Codes
Severe Maternal Morbidity Indicator
ICD-9-CM Codes
ICD-9-CM Diagnosis Code
ICD-9-CM Procedure Code
1. Acute myocardial infarction 410.xx x
2. Acute renal failure 584.x, 669.3x x
3. Adult respiratory distress syndrome 518.5, 518.81, 518.82, 518.84,799.1 x
4. Amniotic fluid embolism 673.1x x
5. Aneurysm 441.xx x
6. Cardiac arrest/ventricular fibrillation 427.41, 427.42, 427.5 x
7. Disseminated intravascular coagulation 286.6, 286.9, 666.3x x
8. Eclampsia 642.6x x
9. Heart failure during procedure or surgery 669.4x, 997.1 x
10. Internal injuries of thorax, abdomen, and pelvis 860.xx—869.xx x
11. Intracranial injuries 800.xx, 801.xx, 803.xx, 804.xx, 851.xx-854.xx x
12. Puerperal cerebrovascular disorders 430, 431, 432.x, 433.xx, 434.xx, 436, 437.x, 671.5x, 674.0x, 997.2, 999.2 x
13. Pulmonary edema 428.1, 518.4 x
14. Severe anesthesia complications 668.0x, 668.1x, 668.2x x
15. Sepsis 038.xx, 995.91, 995.92 x
16. Shock 669.1x, 785.5x, 995.0, 995.4, 998.0 x
17. Sickle cell anemia with crisis 282.62, 282.64, 282.69 x
18. Thrombotic embolism 415.1x, 673.0x, 673.2x, 673.3x, 673.8x x
19. Blood transfusion 99.0x x
20. Cardio monitoring 89.6x x
21. Conversion of cardiac rhythm 99.6x x
22. Hysterectomy 68.3x-68.9 x
23. Operations on heart and pericardium 35.xx, 36.xx, 37.xx, 39.xx x
24. Temporary tracheostomy 31.1 x
25. Ventilation 93.90, 96.01-96.05, 96.7x x
Note: ICD-9-CM, International Classification of Diseases, Ninth Revision, Clinical Modification

If there is a choice to be made, it is the woman's.

Traumatic Injury

Trauma is the most common cause of nonobstetric death among pregnant women in the United States. Motor vehicle crashes, domestic violence, and falls are the most common causes of blunt trauma during pregnancy. All pregnant patients with traumatic injury should be assessed formally in a medical setting because placental abruption can have dire fetal consequences and can present with few or no symptoms. Evaluation and treatment are the same as for nonpregnant patients, except that the uterus should be shifted off the great vessels. After initial stabilization, management includes electronic fetal monitoring, ultrasonography, and laboratory studies. Electronic fetal monitoring currently is the most accurate measure of fetal status after trauma, although the optimal duration of monitoring has not been established.
Trauma affects 6 to 7 percent of pregnancies in the United States and is the leading cause of nonobstetric maternal death.1–4 A reported 0.3 percent of pregnant women require hospital admission because of trauma.4 Motor vehicle crashes, domestic violence, and falls are the most common causes of blunt trauma in pregnancy.1,3–13

Amniotic fluid embolism (AFE) is a life threatening obstetric emergency characterized by sudden cardiorespiratory collapse and disseminated intravascular coagulation.

AFE occurs in 2-8 per 100,000 deliveries and is responsible for between 7.5% to 10% of maternal mortality in the United States. [1]

Types of cancers that occur during pregnancy
The cancers that tend to occur during pregnancy are also more common in younger people. These cancers include:

• Cervical cancer
  
  
• Breast cancer
  
  
• Thyroid cancer
  
  
• Hodgkin lymphoma
  
  
• Non-Hodgkin lymphoma
  
  
• Melanoma
  
  
• Gestational trophoblastic tumor

Breast cancer is the most common cancer diagnosed during pregnancy. It affects about 1 in 3,000 women who are pregnant. Because breasts typically enlarge and change texture during pregnancy, changes from cancer may be difficult to detect. Or they may not appear to be abnormal. As a result, pregnant women with breast cancer may be diagnosed later than non-pregnant women.


Cecily Kellogg, 44, a writer who lives near Philadelphia, says that was the situation she faced when she was nearly six months pregnant with twin boys in 2004 and developed severe preeclampsia. One fetus had already died and "my liver had shut down, my kidneys had shut down and they were expecting me to start seizing at any minute," she says. The doctors said they had to quickly dilate her cervix and perform an abortion to save her. "I fought it," she says. "But they told me I would die — that it was either me and my son or just my son."

Some of the risk factors for stroke in pregnancy are the same as the general public – older age, obesity, migraines, smoking, and heart disease. But some risk factors are specific to pregnancy. They include gestational diabetes, gestational hypertension (high blood pressure), and increased bleeding after giving birth.May 19, 2015

Abstract
Ischemic stroke during pregnancy and puerperium represents a rare occurrence but it could be a serious and stressful event for mothers, infants, and also families. Whenever it does occur, many concerns arise about the safety of the mother and the fetus in relation to common diagnostic tests and therapies leading to a more conservative approach. The physiological adaptations in the cardiovascular system and in the coagulability that accompany the pregnant state, which are more significant around delivery and in the postpartum period, likely contribute to increasing the risk of an ischemic stroke. Most of the causes of an ischemic stroke in the young may also occur in pregnant patients. Despite this, there are specific conditions related to pregnancy which may be considered when assessing this particular group of patients such as pre-eclampsia-eclampsia, choriocarcinoma, peripartum cardiomiopathy, amniotic fluid embolization, and postpartum cerebral angiopathy. This article will consider several questions related to pregnancy-associated ischemic stroke, dwelling on epidemiological and specific etiological aspects, diagnostic issue concerning the use of neuroimaging, and the related potential risks to the embryo and fetus. Therapeutic issues surrounding the use of anticoagulant and antiplatelets agents will be discussed along with the few available reports regarding the use of thrombolytic therapy during pregnancy.

Conditions that might lead to ending a pregnancy to save a woman's life include severe infections, heart failure and severe cases of preeclampsia, a condition in which a woman develops very high blood pressure and is at risk for stroke, says Erika Levi, a obstetrician and gynecologist at the University of North Carolina, Chapel Hill.

Heart Attacks

• Women who were most likely to die from pregnancy-related heart disease were African-American, obese or had documented substance abuse during pregnancy.
• Nearly one-fourth of the women who died of cardiac causes had been diagnosed with high blood pressure during their pregnancies.

In about two-thirds of the deaths, the diagnosis was either incorrect or delayed, or providers had given ineffective or inappropriate treatments, researchers said. One third of the patients who died had delayed or failed to seek care, 10 percent refused medical advice and 27 percent did not recognize their symptoms as cardiovascular.

Blood Clots (Pulmonary embolism, PE or Deep Vein Thrombosis, DVT)
Blood clots in the legs or lungs (also known as thromboembolic conditions) are a leading cause of illness associated with pregnancy and birth and can be life-threatening. Blood clots form in one of the blood vessels, usually the legs (deep vein thrombosis or DVT) and can break away, causing a blockage elsewhere, for example in the lungs (pulmonary embolism or PE – a blood clot in the main artery of the lung).

Sepsis
Sepsis is an infection that can develop before or after the baby has been delivered. Infections can be more severe in pregnancy, and after delivery women may be at particular risk of infection of the womb or birth canal (genital tract infections). It used to be known as puerperal sepsis, or childbed fever, and was a leading cause of maternal deaths. Septicaemia is where the infection spreads into the blood stream. These infections can develop very quickly, or take several days or weeks to build up. Women need to be treated with antibiotics and, in some cases, may need to be admitted to an intensive care unit.

Amniotic Fluid Embolism
Amniotic fluid is the liquid in which the baby floats in the womb. Amniotic fluid embolism is a very rare complication of pregnancy in which amniotic fluid, fetal skin or other cells enter the woman’s blood stream and trigger an allergic reaction. Women with this condition may collapse suddenly during the birth of their baby and it often results in the death of the mother.

Sonographic findings and clinical outcomes in women with massive subchorionic hematoma detected in the second trimester.

Gestational Diabetes Mellitus (GDM)
GDM is diagnosed during pregnancy and can lead to pregnancy complications. GDM is when the body cannot effectively process sugars and starches (carbohydrates), leading to high sugar levels in the blood stream. Most women with GDM can control their blood sugar levels by a following a healthy meal plan from their health care provider and getting regular physical activity. Some women also need insulin to keep blood sugar levels under control. Doing so is important because poorly controlled diabetes increases the risk of—

• 
  
  
  • Preeclampsia.
  • Early delivery.

What is a life threatening complication in pregnancy and childbirth? | Topics, Conditions that threaten women’s lives in childbirth & pregnancy, Pregnancy & children, People's Experiences | healthtalk.org

Heart Disease Cause of Pregnancy-Related Deaths — Go Red For Women

https://www.hindawi.com/journals/srt/2011/606780/

If there is a choice to be made, it is the woman's.

 

[owebo]

Please cite evidence that abortion cures ANYTHING except ectopic pregnancy, you moron.

Who is the moron who thinks she is a medical doctor...? Dumb Ass, try looking it up ... Pregnancy always carries a risk.


Severe Maternal Morbidity Indicators and Corresponding ICD-9-CM Codes
Severe Maternal Morbidity Indicator
ICD-9-CM Codes
ICD-9-CM Diagnosis Code
ICD-9-CM Procedure Code
1. Acute myocardial infarction 410.xx x
2. Acute renal failure 584.x, 669.3x x
3. Adult respiratory distress syndrome 518.5, 518.81, 518.82, 518.84,799.1 x
4. Amniotic fluid embolism 673.1x x
5. Aneurysm 441.xx x
6. Cardiac arrest/ventricular fibrillation 427.41, 427.42, 427.5 x
7. Disseminated intravascular coagulation 286.6, 286.9, 666.3x x
8. Eclampsia 642.6x x
9. Heart failure during procedure or surgery 669.4x, 997.1 x
10. Internal injuries of thorax, abdomen, and pelvis 860.xx—869.xx x
11. Intracranial injuries 800.xx, 801.xx, 803.xx, 804.xx, 851.xx-854.xx x
12. Puerperal cerebrovascular disorders 430, 431, 432.x, 433.xx, 434.xx, 436, 437.x, 671.5x, 674.0x, 997.2, 999.2 x
13. Pulmonary edema 428.1, 518.4 x
14. Severe anesthesia complications 668.0x, 668.1x, 668.2x x
15. Sepsis 038.xx, 995.91, 995.92 x
16. Shock 669.1x, 785.5x, 995.0, 995.4, 998.0 x
17. Sickle cell anemia with crisis 282.62, 282.64, 282.69 x
18. Thrombotic embolism 415.1x, 673.0x, 673.2x, 673.3x, 673.8x x
19. Blood transfusion 99.0x x
20. Cardio monitoring 89.6x x
21. Conversion of cardiac rhythm 99.6x x
22. Hysterectomy 68.3x-68.9 x
23. Operations on heart and pericardium 35.xx, 36.xx, 37.xx, 39.xx x
24. Temporary tracheostomy 31.1 x
25. Ventilation 93.90, 96.01-96.05, 96.7x x
Note: ICD-9-CM, International Classification of Diseases, Ninth Revision, Clinical Modification

If there is a choice to be made, it is the woman's.

Traumatic Injury

Trauma is the most common cause of nonobstetric death among pregnant women in the United States. Motor vehicle crashes, domestic violence, and falls are the most common causes of blunt trauma during pregnancy. All pregnant patients with traumatic injury should be assessed formally in a medical setting because placental abruption can have dire fetal consequences and can present with few or no symptoms. Evaluation and treatment are the same as for nonpregnant patients, except that the uterus should be shifted off the great vessels. After initial stabilization, management includes electronic fetal monitoring, ultrasonography, and laboratory studies. Electronic fetal monitoring currently is the most accurate measure of fetal status after trauma, although the optimal duration of monitoring has not been established.
Trauma affects 6 to 7 percent of pregnancies in the United States and is the leading cause of nonobstetric maternal death.1–4 A reported 0.3 percent of pregnant women require hospital admission because of trauma.4 Motor vehicle crashes, domestic violence, and falls are the most common causes of blunt trauma in pregnancy.1,3–13

Amniotic fluid embolism (AFE) is a life threatening obstetric emergency characterized by sudden cardiorespiratory collapse and disseminated intravascular coagulation.

AFE occurs in 2-8 per 100,000 deliveries and is responsible for between 7.5% to 10% of maternal mortality in the United States. [1]

Types of cancers that occur during pregnancy
The cancers that tend to occur during pregnancy are also more common in younger people. These cancers include:

• Cervical cancer
  
  
• Breast cancer
  
  
• Thyroid cancer
  
  
• Hodgkin lymphoma
  
  
• Non-Hodgkin lymphoma
  
  
• Melanoma
  
  
• Gestational trophoblastic tumor

Breast cancer is the most common cancer diagnosed during pregnancy. It affects about 1 in 3,000 women who are pregnant. Because breasts typically enlarge and change texture during pregnancy, changes from cancer may be difficult to detect. Or they may not appear to be abnormal. As a result, pregnant women with breast cancer may be diagnosed later than non-pregnant women.


Cecily Kellogg, 44, a writer who lives near Philadelphia, says that was the situation she faced when she was nearly six months pregnant with twin boys in 2004 and developed severe preeclampsia. One fetus had already died and "my liver had shut down, my kidneys had shut down and they were expecting me to start seizing at any minute," she says. The doctors said they had to quickly dilate her cervix and perform an abortion to save her. "I fought it," she says. "But they told me I would die — that it was either me and my son or just my son."

Some of the risk factors for stroke in pregnancy are the same as the general public – older age, obesity, migraines, smoking, and heart disease. But some risk factors are specific to pregnancy. They include gestational diabetes, gestational hypertension (high blood pressure), and increased bleeding after giving birth.May 19, 2015

Abstract
Ischemic stroke during pregnancy and puerperium represents a rare occurrence but it could be a serious and stressful event for mothers, infants, and also families. Whenever it does occur, many concerns arise about the safety of the mother and the fetus in relation to common diagnostic tests and therapies leading to a more conservative approach. The physiological adaptations in the cardiovascular system and in the coagulability that accompany the pregnant state, which are more significant around delivery and in the postpartum period, likely contribute to increasing the risk of an ischemic stroke. Most of the causes of an ischemic stroke in the young may also occur in pregnant patients. Despite this, there are specific conditions related to pregnancy which may be considered when assessing this particular group of patients such as pre-eclampsia-eclampsia, choriocarcinoma, peripartum cardiomiopathy, amniotic fluid embolization, and postpartum cerebral angiopathy. This article will consider several questions related to pregnancy-associated ischemic stroke, dwelling on epidemiological and specific etiological aspects, diagnostic issue concerning the use of neuroimaging, and the related potential risks to the embryo and fetus. Therapeutic issues surrounding the use of anticoagulant and antiplatelets agents will be discussed along with the few available reports regarding the use of thrombolytic therapy during pregnancy.

Conditions that might lead to ending a pregnancy to save a woman's life include severe infections, heart failure and severe cases of preeclampsia, a condition in which a woman develops very high blood pressure and is at risk for stroke, says Erika Levi, a obstetrician and gynecologist at the University of North Carolina, Chapel Hill.

Heart Attacks

• Women who were most likely to die from pregnancy-related heart disease were African-American, obese or had documented substance abuse during pregnancy.
• Nearly one-fourth of the women who died of cardiac causes had been diagnosed with high blood pressure during their pregnancies.

In about two-thirds of the deaths, the diagnosis was either incorrect or delayed, or providers had given ineffective or inappropriate treatments, researchers said. One third of the patients who died had delayed or failed to seek care, 10 percent refused medical advice and 27 percent did not recognize their symptoms as cardiovascular.

Blood Clots (Pulmonary embolism, PE or Deep Vein Thrombosis, DVT)
Blood clots in the legs or lungs (also known as thromboembolic conditions) are a leading cause of illness associated with pregnancy and birth and can be life-threatening. Blood clots form in one of the blood vessels, usually the legs (deep vein thrombosis or DVT) and can break away, causing a blockage elsewhere, for example in the lungs (pulmonary embolism or PE – a blood clot in the main artery of the lung).

Sepsis
Sepsis is an infection that can develop before or after the baby has been delivered. Infections can be more severe in pregnancy, and after delivery women may be at particular risk of infection of the womb or birth canal (genital tract infections). It used to be known as puerperal sepsis, or childbed fever, and was a leading cause of maternal deaths. Septicaemia is where the infection spreads into the blood stream. These infections can develop very quickly, or take several days or weeks to build up. Women need to be treated with antibiotics and, in some cases, may need to be admitted to an intensive care unit.

Amniotic Fluid Embolism
Amniotic fluid is the liquid in which the baby floats in the womb. Amniotic fluid embolism is a very rare complication of pregnancy in which amniotic fluid, fetal skin or other cells enter the woman’s blood stream and trigger an allergic reaction. Women with this condition may collapse suddenly during the birth of their baby and it often results in the death of the mother.

Sonographic findings and clinical outcomes in women with massive subchorionic hematoma detected in the second trimester.

Gestational Diabetes Mellitus (GDM)
GDM is diagnosed during pregnancy and can lead to pregnancy complications. GDM is when the body cannot effectively process sugars and starches (carbohydrates), leading to high sugar levels in the blood stream. Most women with GDM can control their blood sugar levels by a following a healthy meal plan from their health care provider and getting regular physical activity. Some women also need insulin to keep blood sugar levels under control. Doing so is important because poorly controlled diabetes increases the risk of—

• 
  
  
  • Preeclampsia.
  • Early delivery.

What is a life threatening complication in pregnancy and childbirth? | Topics, Conditions that threaten women’s lives in childbirth & pregnancy, Pregnancy & children, People's Experiences | healthtalk.org

Heart Disease Cause of Pregnancy-Related Deaths — Go Red For Women

https://www.hindawi.com/journals/srt/2011/606780/

If there is a choice to be made, it is the woman's.

How fascist....

 

[NightFox]

Good point, if we could pick one "problem" to eliminate from human society IMHO war would the no-brainier choice over abortion; while abortion may be a bit murky from a moral standpoint, war is clear, cut, no bones about it a wholly immoral pursuit and raising children as nothing more than meat for the grinder of the warfare state is a purely evil one.

"The idealism of non-aggression and rejecting all offensive use of force should be tried. The idealism of government sanctioned violence has been abused throughout history and is the primary source of poverty and war. The theory of a society being based on individual freedom has been around for a long time. It’s time to take a bold step and actually permit it by advancing this cause, rather than taking a step backwards as some would like us to do." -- Ron Paul

I agree with you on war however, there is nothing moral or immoral about abortion, it is just a procedure that as carried out in America today, terminates the rights of another human without due process.

IMHO the murky moral question(s) that are in contention; what defines and when in the pregnancy is the definition met for a fetus to become a "human" and thus gain natural rights mandating "due process" along with the question regarding the mothers right not to bear the child.

Emotionalizing abortion is a liberal trait.....

Is the fetus human? Yes or no?

I'm an engineer not a biologist or medical doctor so I'd have to say "I don't know for sure" but my personal theory is that the one trait that is irreplaceable for a human being is self-awareness and at some point during a pregnancy the fetus does become self-aware and thus qualifies as a distinct individual human separate from its mother and thus is bequeathed the rights that all humans enjoy.

I too am an engineer and I can say with 100% certainty that a human fetus will not turn into a horse, a dog, a cat, a toaster oven, or anything but the human it is....

Unless of course it "turns into" a corpse, one thing is not another thing regardless of the fact that the one thing will at some future point in time become another thing, a caterpillar is not a butterfly even though at some point it will either become a butterfly or the corpse of a caterpillar.

Again, drop emotion from your analysis and tell me again, is a fetus human? Yes OR no?

Asked and answered, completely absent emotion, my analysis was based on reason and evidence, what's yours based on?

"If you didn’t like the answer, asking the same question again is unlikely to help" -- Raymond Chen

 

[Eaglewings]

Where does itvsay that abortion cures, or is a treatment for, any of those?

Oh yeah. It doesn't.

That makes you a retard.

With the many conditions I provided what other way is there to keep a mother from dying if no other treatments are working except to induce ( which means force labor c-section) and deliver the baby early

Many times they try to keep the baby in the womb as long as possible, but sometimes the baby is too early..

Please provide your evidence ...just in case you forgot the list here it is again..


Severe Maternal Morbidity Indicators and Corresponding ICD-9-CM Codes
Severe Maternal Morbidity Indicator
ICD-9-CM Codes
ICD-9-CM Diagnosis Code
ICD-9-CM Procedure Code
1. Acute myocardial infarction 410.xx x
2. Acute renal failure 584.x, 669.3x x
3. Adult respiratory distress syndrome 518.5, 518.81, 518.82, 518.84,799.1 x
4. Amniotic fluid embolism 673.1x x
5. Aneurysm 441.xx x
6. Cardiac arrest/ventricular fibrillation 427.41, 427.42, 427.5 x
7. Disseminated intravascular coagulation 286.6, 286.9, 666.3x x
8. Eclampsia 642.6x x
9. Heart failure during procedure or surgery 669.4x, 997.1 x
10. Internal injuries of thorax, abdomen, and pelvis 860.xx—869.xx x
11. Intracranial injuries 800.xx, 801.xx, 803.xx, 804.xx, 851.xx-854.xx x
12. Puerperal cerebrovascular disorders 430, 431, 432.x, 433.xx, 434.xx, 436, 437.x, 671.5x, 674.0x, 997.2, 999.2 x
13. Pulmonary edema 428.1, 518.4 x
14. Severe anesthesia complications 668.0x, 668.1x, 668.2x x
15. Sepsis 038.xx, 995.91, 995.92 x
16. Shock 669.1x, 785.5x, 995.0, 995.4, 998.0 x
17. Sickle cell anemia with crisis 282.62, 282.64, 282.69 x
18. Thrombotic embolism 415.1x, 673.0x, 673.2x, 673.3x, 673.8x x
19. Blood transfusion 99.0x x
20. Cardio monitoring 89.6x x
21. Conversion of cardiac rhythm 99.6x x
22. Hysterectomy 68.3x-68.9 x
23. Operations on heart and pericardium 35.xx, 36.xx, 37.xx, 39.xx x
24. Temporary tracheostomy 31.1 x
25. Ventilation 93.90, 96.01-96.05, 96.7x x
Note: ICD-9-CM, International Classification of Diseases, Ninth Revision, Clinical Modification

 

[there4eyeM]

[/QUOTE]

With the many conditions I provided what other way is there to keep a mother from dying if no other treatments are working except to induce ( which means force labor c-section) and deliver the baby early

Many times they try to keep the baby in the womb as long as possible, but sometimes the baby is too early..

Please provide your evidence ...just in case you forgot the list here it is again..


Severe Maternal Morbidity Indicators and Corresponding ICD-9-CM Codes
Severe Maternal Morbidity Indicator
ICD-9-CM Codes
ICD-9-CM Diagnosis Code
ICD-9-CM Procedure Code
1. Acute myocardial infarction 410.xx x
2. Acute renal failure 584.x, 669.3x x
3. Adult respiratory distress syndrome 518.5, 518.81, 518.82, 518.84,799.1 x
4. Amniotic fluid embolism 673.1x x
5. Aneurysm 441.xx x
6. Cardiac arrest/ventricular fibrillation 427.41, 427.42, 427.5 x
7. Disseminated intravascular coagulation 286.6, 286.9, 666.3x x
8. Eclampsia 642.6x x
9. Heart failure during procedure or surgery 669.4x, 997.1 x
10. Internal injuries of thorax, abdomen, and pelvis 860.xx—869.xx x
11. Intracranial injuries 800.xx, 801.xx, 803.xx, 804.xx, 851.xx-854.xx x
12. Puerperal cerebrovascular disorders 430, 431, 432.x, 433.xx, 434.xx, 436, 437.x, 671.5x, 674.0x, 997.2, 999.2 x
13. Pulmonary edema 428.1, 518.4 x
14. Severe anesthesia complications 668.0x, 668.1x, 668.2x x
15. Sepsis 038.xx, 995.91, 995.92 x
16. Shock 669.1x, 785.5x, 995.0, 995.4, 998.0 x
17. Sickle cell anemia with crisis 282.62, 282.64, 282.69 x
18. Thrombotic embolism 415.1x, 673.0x, 673.2x, 673.3x, 673.8x x
19. Blood transfusion 99.0x x
20. Cardio monitoring 89.6x x
21. Conversion of cardiac rhythm 99.6x x
22. Hysterectomy 68.3x-68.9 x
23. Operations on heart and pericardium 35.xx, 36.xx, 37.xx, 39.xx x
24. Temporary tracheostomy 31.1 x
25. Ventilation 93.90, 96.01-96.05, 96.7x x
Note: ICD-9-CM, International Classification of Diseases, Ninth Revision, Clinical Modification[/QUOTE]

Thanks.
And, again, any decision about bearing is the woman's, not the state, fascist or otherwise.

 

[owebo]

I agree with you on war however, there is nothing moral or immoral about abortion, it is just a procedure that as carried out in America today, terminates the rights of another human without due process.

IMHO the murky moral question(s) that are in contention; what defines and when in the pregnancy is the definition met for a fetus to become a "human" and thus gain natural rights mandating "due process" along with the question regarding the mothers right not to bear the child.

Emotionalizing abortion is a liberal trait.....

Is the fetus human? Yes or no?

I'm an engineer not a biologist or medical doctor so I'd have to say "I don't know for sure" but my personal theory is that the one trait that is irreplaceable for a human being is self-awareness and at some point during a pregnancy the fetus does become self-aware and thus qualifies as a distinct individual human separate from its mother and thus is bequeathed the rights that all humans enjoy.

I too am an engineer and I can say with 100% certainty that a human fetus will not turn into a horse, a dog, a cat, a toaster oven, or anything but the human it is....

Unless of course it "turns into" a corpse, one thing is not another thing regardless of the fact that the one thing will at some future point in time become another thing, a caterpillar is not a butterfly even though at some point it will either become a butterfly or the corpse of a caterpillar.

Again, drop emotion from your analysis and tell me again, is a fetus human? Yes OR no?

Asked and answered, completely absent emotion, my analysis was based on reason and evidence, what's yours based on?

"If you didn’t like the answer, asking the same question again is unlikely to help" -- Raymond Chen

Fact...

 

[owebo]

Thanks.
And, again, any decision about bearing is the woman's, not the state, fascist or otherwise.

How fascist....

 

[NightFox]

Fact...

Uh-Huh and it appears that we'll have to wait for the return of Edward Snowden so we can find out the specifics....

"If you want to keep a secret, you must also hide it from yourself." -- George Orwell

 

[owebo]

Fact...

Uh-Huh and it appears that we'll have to wait for the return of Edward Snowden so we can find out the specifics....

"If you want to keep a secret, you must also hide it from yourself." -- George Orwell

Obviously, facts escape you.....

A human fetus is a human = fact

 

[NightFox]

Obviously, facts escape you.....

Yeah, especially when the purveyor of said "facts" is attempting to keep them a secret.

A human fetus is a human = fact

According to whom? and what is your definition of "a human"? That is to say "a human" bequeathed with natural rights.

 

[there4eyeM]

The comparisons are between ways society applies morals, not what defines the material.
A fertile woman makes a decision about a new person every month she isn't pregnant. Put a sperm in one of her eggs (with which she was born and was itself in the DNA of her mother and her mother's mother, ad infinitum) and what changes her decision making power? What moral principle does it work upon?

Faced with the scientific fact of human life extending back seamlessly for a vast amount of time, what is the justification for telling a woman her body has changed because of an arbitrary limit imposed by an outside force?

 

[koshergrl]

I agree with you on war however, there is nothing moral or immoral about abortion, it is just a procedure that as carried out in America today, terminates the rights of another human without due process.

IMHO the murky moral question(s) that are in contention; what defines and when in the pregnancy is the definition met for a fetus to become a "human" and thus gain natural rights mandating "due process" along with the question regarding the mothers right not to bear the child.

Emotionalizing abortion is a liberal trait.....

Is the fetus human? Yes or no?

I'm an engineer not a biologist or medical doctor so I'd have to say "I don't know for sure" but my personal theory is that the one trait that is irreplaceable for a human being is self-awareness and at some point during a pregnancy the fetus does become self-aware and thus qualifies as a distinct individual human separate from its mother and thus is bequeathed the rights that all humans enjoy.

I too am an engineer and I can say with 100% certainty that a human fetus will not turn into a horse, a dog, a cat, a toaster oven, or anything but the human it is....

Unless of course it "turns into" a corpse, one thing is not another thing regardless of the fact that the one thing will at some future point in time become another thing, a caterpillar is not a butterfly even though at some point it will either become a butterfly or the corpse of a caterpillar.

Again, drop emotion from your analysis and tell me again, is a fetus human? Yes OR no?

Asked and answered, completely absent emotion, my analysis was based on reason and evidence, what's yours based on?

"If you didn’t like the answer, asking the same question again is unlikely to help" -- Raymond Chen

It won't *turn into* a corpse unless something kills it.

 

[koshergrl]

Obviously, facts escape you.....

Yeah, especially when the purveyor of said "facts" is attempting to keep them a secret.

A human fetus is a human = fact

According to whom? and what is your definition of "a human"? That is to say "a human" bequeathed with natural rights.

God says it, and humanity says it, and everything that is decent and human says it.

 

[koshergrl]

Where does itvsay that abortion cures, or is a treatment for, any of those?

Oh yeah. It doesn't.

That makes you a retard.

With the many conditions I provided what other way is there to keep a mother from dying if no other treatments are working except to induce ( which means force labor c-section) and deliver the baby early

Many times they try to keep the baby in the womb as long as possible, but sometimes the baby is too early..

Please provide your evidence ...just in case you forgot the list here it is again..


Severe Maternal Morbidity Indicators and Corresponding ICD-9-CM Codes
Severe Maternal Morbidity Indicator
ICD-9-CM Codes
ICD-9-CM Diagnosis Code
ICD-9-CM Procedure Code
1. Acute myocardial infarction 410.xx x
2. Acute renal failure 584.x, 669.3x x
3. Adult respiratory distress syndrome 518.5, 518.81, 518.82, 518.84,799.1 x
4. Amniotic fluid embolism 673.1x x
5. Aneurysm 441.xx x
6. Cardiac arrest/ventricular fibrillation 427.41, 427.42, 427.5 x
7. Disseminated intravascular coagulation 286.6, 286.9, 666.3x x
8. Eclampsia 642.6x x
9. Heart failure during procedure or surgery 669.4x, 997.1 x
10. Internal injuries of thorax, abdomen, and pelvis 860.xx—869.xx x
11. Intracranial injuries 800.xx, 801.xx, 803.xx, 804.xx, 851.xx-854.xx x
12. Puerperal cerebrovascular disorders 430, 431, 432.x, 433.xx, 434.xx, 436, 437.x, 671.5x, 674.0x, 997.2, 999.2 x
13. Pulmonary edema 428.1, 518.4 x
14. Severe anesthesia complications 668.0x, 668.1x, 668.2x x
15. Sepsis 038.xx, 995.91, 995.92 x
16. Shock 669.1x, 785.5x, 995.0, 995.4, 998.0 x
17. Sickle cell anemia with crisis 282.62, 282.64, 282.69 x
18. Thrombotic embolism 415.1x, 673.0x, 673.2x, 673.3x, 673.8x x
19. Blood transfusion 99.0x x
20. Cardio monitoring 89.6x x
21. Conversion of cardiac rhythm 99.6x x
22. Hysterectomy 68.3x-68.9 x
23. Operations on heart and pericardium 35.xx, 36.xx, 37.xx, 39.xx x
24. Temporary tracheostomy 31.1 x
25. Ventilation 93.90, 96.01-96.05, 96.7x x
Note: ICD-9-CM, International Classification of Diseases, Ninth Revision, Clinical Modification

ABORTION CURES NONE OF THOSE.

Not one. You fucking moron. That's just a list of diseases that can be fatal any time, including when you're pregnant. But terminating a pregnancy does NOT make those better.

You still haven't provided one medical citation that lists abortion as a *cure* or *treatment* for any disease or condition...aside from ectopic pregnancy (which I provided, because you're a fucking idiot).

 

[owebo]

Obviously, facts escape you.....

Yeah, especially when the purveyor of said "facts" is attempting to keep them a secret.

A human fetus is a human = fact

According to whom? and what is your definition of "a human"? That is to say "a human" bequeathed with natural rights.

Yeah, See post #271....thanks...

As for the remainder of your tripe, I can't help you....a human is a human....it's just fact....

 

[owebo]

The comparisons are between ways society applies morals, not what defines the material.
A fertile woman makes a decision about a new person every month she isn't pregnant. Put a sperm in one of her eggs (with which she was born and was itself in the DNA of her mother and her mother's mother, ad infinitum) and what changes her decision making power? What moral principle does it work upon?

Faced with the scientific fact of human life extending back seamlessly for a vast amount of time, what is the justification for telling a woman her body has changed because of an arbitrary limit imposed by an outside force?

So you obfuscate to a human as an outside force....at least your not telling us it's a toaster oven.....

 

[owebo]

Where does itvsay that abortion cures, or is a treatment for, any of those?

Oh yeah. It doesn't.

That makes you a retard.

With the many conditions I provided what other way is there to keep a mother from dying if no other treatments are working except to induce ( which means force labor c-section) and deliver the baby early

Many times they try to keep the baby in the womb as long as possible, but sometimes the baby is too early..

Please provide your evidence ...just in case you forgot the list here it is again..


Severe Maternal Morbidity Indicators and Corresponding ICD-9-CM Codes
Severe Maternal Morbidity Indicator
ICD-9-CM Codes
ICD-9-CM Diagnosis Code
ICD-9-CM Procedure Code
1. Acute myocardial infarction 410.xx x
2. Acute renal failure 584.x, 669.3x x
3. Adult respiratory distress syndrome 518.5, 518.81, 518.82, 518.84,799.1 x
4. Amniotic fluid embolism 673.1x x
5. Aneurysm 441.xx x
6. Cardiac arrest/ventricular fibrillation 427.41, 427.42, 427.5 x
7. Disseminated intravascular coagulation 286.6, 286.9, 666.3x x
8. Eclampsia 642.6x x
9. Heart failure during procedure or surgery 669.4x, 997.1 x
10. Internal injuries of thorax, abdomen, and pelvis 860.xx—869.xx x
11. Intracranial injuries 800.xx, 801.xx, 803.xx, 804.xx, 851.xx-854.xx x
12. Puerperal cerebrovascular disorders 430, 431, 432.x, 433.xx, 434.xx, 436, 437.x, 671.5x, 674.0x, 997.2, 999.2 x
13. Pulmonary edema 428.1, 518.4 x
14. Severe anesthesia complications 668.0x, 668.1x, 668.2x x
15. Sepsis 038.xx, 995.91, 995.92 x
16. Shock 669.1x, 785.5x, 995.0, 995.4, 998.0 x
17. Sickle cell anemia with crisis 282.62, 282.64, 282.69 x
18. Thrombotic embolism 415.1x, 673.0x, 673.2x, 673.3x, 673.8x x
19. Blood transfusion 99.0x x
20. Cardio monitoring 89.6x x
21. Conversion of cardiac rhythm 99.6x x
22. Hysterectomy 68.3x-68.9 x
23. Operations on heart and pericardium 35.xx, 36.xx, 37.xx, 39.xx x
24. Temporary tracheostomy 31.1 x
25. Ventilation 93.90, 96.01-96.05, 96.7x x
Note: ICD-9-CM, International Classification of Diseases, Ninth Revision, Clinical Modification

ABORTION CURES NONE OF THOSE.

Not one. You fucking moron. That's just a list of diseases that can be fatal any time, including when you're pregnant. But terminating a pregnancy does NOT make those better.

You still haven't provided one medical citation that lists abortion as a *cure* or *treatment* for any disease or condition...aside from ectopic pregnancy (which I provided, because you're a fucking idiot).

Baby killers are indeed a special kind of evil.....

 

[there4eyeM]

It will take a very great 'God' to forgive all these people who have such a pitifully immature image of God and try to force it on others.