Abortion rate at lowest level since Roe V Wade

[there4eyeM]

Sending children off to kill other children over some limited resource doesn't seem a very good reason to bear them, and is much more cruel than abortion might be accused of.

 

[TNHarley]

I just finished reading The Giver with a student. It's a dystopian novel for young people and it came out long after I had left school, so I never read it before. I kept scratching my head the whole way through wondering who exactly the boogeyman was that the author was warning about--and participating in this thread yesterday afternoon, I realized the boogeyman was ME.
I get it that abortion and euthanasia place our feet at the top of a slippery slope that can lead to horrendous outcomes if not strictly reigned. All because of well intentioned people's wish to end suffering. Even in this thread, some people are taking it and running with it to a place I never intended.
Interesting ideas. Very troubling, as well.

Reality can be very troubling.

Indeed. Also some color blindness involved, I think.

What do you mean?

The "Are You An Optimist?" site we all visited yesterday, Mr. Realist.

Don't be hating because I know my color wheel, missy!

 

[NightFox]

People need to start facing the fact that our great great grandkids will probably face genocide, forced sterilization or selective breeding.
7 billion people on this planet and half are stupid as fuck. People starve, people die from dehydration, terrorists, religious fanatics, corrupt leaders.. Goddamn, we fucking suck!

Sheesh TN....one might be tempted to suggest that you dial back just a tad on that effusive exuberance you got going on this morning.

Lol wtf I don't speak French

Translation: Chill bro, the long term outlook is somewhat bleak but not yet quite as bad as you suggest.

Besides even if your prognostications do in fact come to pass, you'll be dead and thus probably won't give a damn.

"Don't worry about a thing, 'Cause every little thing gonna be alright" -- Bob Marley, Three Little Birds

 

[owebo]

With the nearly universal, perverse exploitation of humans with just a below average i. q., the misery inflicted on the even more defenseless makes life a dubious blessing.

What the fuck business is it of yours what another human wants?

 

[TNHarley]

Translation: Chill bro, the long term outlook is somewhat bleak but not yet quite as bad as you suggest.

I just see it happening eventually. I don't think anytime soon, but it will happen. Either that or we start to colonize other planets lol
And I figure an "nwo" would bring it about faster.

 

[NightFox]

Sending children off to kill other children over some limited resource doesn't seem a very good reason to bear them, and is much more cruel than abortion might be accused of.

Good point, if we could pick one "problem" to eliminate from human society IMHO war would the no-brainier choice over abortion; while abortion may be a bit murky from a moral standpoint, war is clear, cut, no bones about it a wholly immoral pursuit and raising children as nothing more than meat for the grinder of the warfare state is a purely evil one.

"The idealism of non-aggression and rejecting all offensive use of force should be tried. The idealism of government sanctioned violence has been abused throughout history and is the primary source of poverty and war. The theory of a society being based on individual freedom has been around for a long time. It’s time to take a bold step and actually permit it by advancing this cause, rather than taking a step backwards as some would like us to do." -- Ron Paul

 

[SassyIrishLass]

Sending children off to kill other children over some limited resource doesn't seem a very good reason to bear them, and is much more cruel than abortion might be accused of.

Except it's a volunteer military...I don't think a child would volunteer to be aborted

 

[NightFox]

Translation: Chill bro, the long term outlook is somewhat bleak but not yet quite as bad as you suggest.

I just see it happening eventually. I don't think anytime soon, but it will happen. Either that or we start to colonize other planets lol
And I figure an "nwo" would bring it about faster.

You been taking your George Orwell intravenously again TN? You need to knock that shit off, it'll stunt your growth.

"Reality exists in the human mind, and nowhere else." -- George Orwell, 1984

 

[owebo]

Sending children off to kill other children over some limited resource doesn't seem a very good reason to bear them, and is much more cruel than abortion might be accused of.

Good point, if we could pick one "problem" to eliminate from human society IMHO war would the no-brainier choice over abortion; while abortion may be a bit murky from a moral standpoint, war is clear, cut, no bones about it a wholly immoral pursuit and raising children as nothing more than meat for the grinder of the warfare state is a purely evil one.

"The idealism of non-aggression and rejecting all offensive use of force should be tried. The idealism of government sanctioned violence has been abused throughout history and is the primary source of poverty and war. The theory of a society being based on individual freedom has been around for a long time. It’s time to take a bold step and actually permit it by advancing this cause, rather than taking a step backwards as some would like us to do." -- Ron Paul

I agree with you on war however, there is nothing moral or immoral about abortion, it is just a procedure that as carried out in America today, terminates the rights of another human without due process.

 

[NightFox]

Sending children off to kill other children over some limited resource doesn't seem a very good reason to bear them, and is much more cruel than abortion might be accused of.

Except it's a volunteer military...I don't think a child would volunteer to be aborted

Er..um... stop and think about what you're saying, VOLUNTEER to go off and murder or be murdered at the behest of the masters of the state, what sort of sick system programs children to be willing to do that? Heck if it were possible for a fetus to be aware that such a system existed I'd say it's likely that there would be a mad rush to sign up to be voluntarily aborted.

 

[SassyIrishLass]

Sending children off to kill other children over some limited resource doesn't seem a very good reason to bear them, and is much more cruel than abortion might be accused of.

Except it's a volunteer military...I don't think a child would volunteer to be aborted

Er..um... stop and think about what you're saying, VOLUNTEER to go off and murder or be murdered at the behest of the masters of the state, what sort of sick system programs children to be willing to do that? Heck if it were possible for a fetus to be aware that such a system existed I'd say it's likely that there would be a mad rush to sign up to be voluntarily aborted.

It was a stupid comparison.

 

[NightFox]

Sending children off to kill other children over some limited resource doesn't seem a very good reason to bear them, and is much more cruel than abortion might be accused of.

Good point, if we could pick one "problem" to eliminate from human society IMHO war would the no-brainier choice over abortion; while abortion may be a bit murky from a moral standpoint, war is clear, cut, no bones about it a wholly immoral pursuit and raising children as nothing more than meat for the grinder of the warfare state is a purely evil one.

"The idealism of non-aggression and rejecting all offensive use of force should be tried. The idealism of government sanctioned violence has been abused throughout history and is the primary source of poverty and war. The theory of a society being based on individual freedom has been around for a long time. It’s time to take a bold step and actually permit it by advancing this cause, rather than taking a step backwards as some would like us to do." -- Ron Paul

I agree with you on war however, there is nothing moral or immoral about abortion, it is just a procedure that as carried out in America today, terminates the rights of another human without due process.

IMHO the murky moral question(s) that are in contention; what defines and when in the pregnancy is the definition met for a fetus to become a "human" and thus gain natural rights mandating "due process" along with the question regarding the mothers right not to bear the child.

 

[there4eyeM]

Sending children off to kill other children over some limited resource doesn't seem a very good reason to bear them, and is much more cruel than abortion might be accused of.

Except it's a volunteer military...I don't think a child would volunteer to be aborted

A very limited view; in the U.S. it is presently 'voluntary', though everything is in place for the draft to be reactivated. Even that was technically a choice, though almost everyone considered it forced. Soldiers throughout history have been little more than a resource to be used or wasted. They are still regarded that way by Generals and politicians. Children raised not understanding life and choice cannot volunteer, in any sense of that word one could call fully conscious and adult. The majority are poor and come from areas that make the term 'job choice' meaningless.

 

[SassyIrishLass]

Sending children off to kill other children over some limited resource doesn't seem a very good reason to bear them, and is much more cruel than abortion might be accused of.

Except it's a volunteer military...I don't think a child would volunteer to be aborted

A very limited view; in the U.S. it is presently 'voluntary', though everything is in place for the draft to be reactivated. Even that was technically a choice, though almost everyone considered it forced. Soldiers throughout history have been little more than a resource to be used or wasted. They are still regarded that way by Generals and politicians. Children raised not understanding life and choice cannot volunteer, in any sense of that word one could call fully conscious and adult. The majority are poor and come from areas that make the term 'job choice' meaningless.

You're trying to compare apples to oranges

 

[owebo]

Sending children off to kill other children over some limited resource doesn't seem a very good reason to bear them, and is much more cruel than abortion might be accused of.

Good point, if we could pick one "problem" to eliminate from human society IMHO war would the no-brainier choice over abortion; while abortion may be a bit murky from a moral standpoint, war is clear, cut, no bones about it a wholly immoral pursuit and raising children as nothing more than meat for the grinder of the warfare state is a purely evil one.

"The idealism of non-aggression and rejecting all offensive use of force should be tried. The idealism of government sanctioned violence has been abused throughout history and is the primary source of poverty and war. The theory of a society being based on individual freedom has been around for a long time. It’s time to take a bold step and actually permit it by advancing this cause, rather than taking a step backwards as some would like us to do." -- Ron Paul

I agree with you on war however, there is nothing moral or immoral about abortion, it is just a procedure that as carried out in America today, terminates the rights of another human without due process.

IMHO the murky moral question(s) that are in contention; what defines and when in the pregnancy is the definition met for a fetus to become a "human" and thus gain natural rights mandating "due process" along with the question regarding the mothers right not to bear the child.

Emotionalizing abortion is a liberal trait.....

Is the fetus human? Yes or no?

 

[owebo]

Sending children off to kill other children over some limited resource doesn't seem a very good reason to bear them, and is much more cruel than abortion might be accused of.

Except it's a volunteer military...I don't think a child would volunteer to be aborted

A very limited view; in the U.S. it is presently 'voluntary', though everything is in place for the draft to be reactivated. Even that was technically a choice, though almost everyone considered it forced. Soldiers throughout history have been little more than a resource to be used or wasted. They are still regarded that way by Generals and politicians. Children raised not understanding life and choice cannot volunteer, in any sense of that word one could call fully conscious and adult. The majority are poor and come from areas that make the term 'job choice' meaningless.

im glad you were marginalized in this debate....

 

[usmbguest5318]

The sad thing is, there are a lot who would view that with alarm.

Viewing a rise or fall in the rate of abortions is absurd. The thing to be thrilled or dismayed about is the rise and fall of the circumstances that inspire people to feel the need to have abortions.

 

[there4eyeM]

The comparisons are between ways society applies morals, not what defines the material.
A fertile woman makes a decision about a new person every month she isn't pregnant. Put a sperm in one of her eggs (with which she was born and was itself in the DNA of her mother and her mother's mother, ad infinitum) and what changes her decision making power? What moral principle does it work upon?

 

[owebo]

The comparisons are between ways society applies morals, not what defines the material.
A fertile woman makes a decision about a new person every month she isn't pregnant. Put a sperm in one of her eggs (with which she was born and was itself in the DNA of her mother and her mother's mother, ad infinitum) and what changes her decision making power? What moral principle does it work upon?

You mean RNA, genius.....

 

[there4eyeM]

from the Internet:
"In human genetics, the Mitochondrial Eve (also mt-Eve, mt-MRCA) is the matrilineal most recent common ancestor (MRCA) of all currently living humans, i.e., the most recent woman from whom all living humans descend in an unbroken line purely through their mothers, and through the mothers of those mothers, back until all lines converge on one woman. Mitochondrial Eve lived later than Homo heidelbergensis and the emergence of Homo neanderthalensis, but earlier than the out of Africa migration,[2] but her age is not known with certainty; a 2009 estimate cites an age between c. 152 and 234 thousand years ago (95% CI);[3] a 2013 study cites a range of 99–148 thousand years ago.[4]

Because all mitochondrial DNA (mtDNA) generally (but see paternal mtDNA transmission) is passed from mother to offspring without recombination, all mtDNA in every living person is directly descended from hers by definition, differing only by the mutations that over generations have occurred in the germ cell mtDNA since the conception of the original "Mitochondrial Eve"."