Abortions: Should Women be Allowed to Choose?

[NoNukes]

Sooooo, since he should have that right, then he should have the right to say no to an abortion, seeing as though he's 100% just as responsible for creating that life, correct?

The man is not pregnant, so of course he has no say.

So a mans participation in the creation of that life, during mutually consented intercourse, with both knowing the possible consequences, is meaningless, as long as that life is an inconvenience to the woman?

What a crock of loony bullshit.

It must be Sunday morning, Noomi and Wicked Jester are at it.

Good morning to both of you, or, good afternoon Noomi.

 

[JoeB131]

Sooooo, since he should have that right, then he should have the right to say no to an abortion, seeing as though he's 100% just as responsible for creating that life, correct?

The man is not pregnant, so of course he has no say.

So a mans participation in the creation of that life, during mutually consented intercourse, with both knowing the possible consequences, is meaningless, as long as that life is an inconvenience to the woman?

What a crock of loony bullshit.

Or pure practicality.

This is where you religious loons don't get it.

Women have been having abortions since Roman times. They have them in countries like the Philippines where they are dirt poor and abortions are illegal. This is simply the reality of the matter. As long as the thing is in her body, it's her decision.

Unless you want to turn America into a version of "The Republic of Gilead" from Margaret Atwood's "A Handmaid's Tale".

 

[koshergrl]

Shut up, you weirdo. Nobody wants to hear you muse about all the rights women have when it's obvious you're all about humiliating and abusing them.

 

[JoeB131]

Shut up, you weirdo. Nobody wants to hear you muse about all the rights women have when it's obvious you're all about humiliating and abusing them.

Yawn.

I guess you poor things, you just don't know what to do with your lady parts. You need big strong men to tell you what do with them because you are quite incapable of making your own decisions...

Or at least you are. Most women I know pretty much have a solid bead on the problem.

 

[Dot Com]

Shut up, you weirdo. Nobody wants to hear you muse about all the rights women have when it's obvious you're all about humiliating and abusing them.

said the single-issue, poster who wants men (only monotheistic men, mind you ) to put laws on women's bodies

 

[JoeB131]

Shut up, you weirdo. Nobody wants to hear you muse about all the rights women have when it's obvious you're all about humiliating and abusing them.

said the single-issue, poster who wants men to put laws on women's bodies

She does seem really obsessed with the issue, and frankly, talks about porn and prostitution a lot in relation to it, like those are relevent.

 

[Expat]

If you made abortion illegal, women would still get abortions. How do you tell miscarriage apart from DIY abortion? I can go buy Misoprostol (used for gastric ulcers and effectively terminates pregnancies) and induce miscarriage/abortion from home. When women miscarry and show up in hospital, you want to investigate each and every one of them to see if they are "murdered" their baby?

By medical criteria, miscarriage and abortion are the same thing. The termination of a pregnancy either spontaneously or by interference.

If you want to make abortion illegal, you'll see more "miscarriages" in ER's that require medical treatment. Are you going to prosecute these women? Are you going to run investigations on every woman that shows up in hospital with a miscarriage? Please tell me how you are going to ensure that the "unborn people" are protected? If they should have absolutely equal rights with everyone, we should have cause of death known for each and every one and that leaves every miscarriage and stillbirth suspect. Can you honestly tell me you want all of these investigated?

What about the abortions/miscarriages that happen less than two months in? They might not even know they're pregnant. But they could do something that could harm their child. We protect children right? Where are you drawing this line to protect the unborn? Please, I really want you to enlighten me how you plan to treat the unborn as equal to everyone else.

Questions those opposed to privacy rights haven’t the courage to answer.

It's not like we dont have these tools in place for say....murders, suicides, how do we determine if its a homicide or a suicide?

pretty easy, we'd treat them like other crimes. Intent is very important and can be determined in most cases through forensics. Are you going to hire your boyfriend to punch you in the stomach? Is he going to take the fall? I doubt it. They can test for drugs to induce miscarriages...Just like anything else they can tell by quantity and how often you use it and what you use it for to determine intent.

LOL! You're going to check for 6 week terminations? That's a lot of sewage to go through. I'll bet people would love seeing what anti-choicers want to do to their tax bills! If the police are stretched now this would be freaking incredible!

 

[Expat]

A fetus at 30 weeks and a baby ARE the same thing. A fetus at 22 weeks and a baby are the same thing. A fetus at 6 weeks and a baby are the same thing.

A miscarriage and induced abortion are two completely different things; as dying from a heart attack and being killed by deliberate poisoning are two different things. I find it fascinating that one who says a developing child at 22 weeks and a developing child at 22 months are two COMPLETELY different things; one isn't even a person!...can say that abortion and miscarriage are the SAME.

I am sorry, but a six week old embryo and a six week old newborn are entirely different. Not just in location, but in virtually everything. Same with a six month old fetus and a six month old baby.

How so? By physical appearance? By what?

What does an embryo need that humans dont? Food, water, air? What?

oh that's right you're a callous, selfish person that clubbing is more important to you than children.

How so? Answer the questions. How exactly do you track every single "baby" from conception? Are you really going to give every woman a pregnancy test every month? We give birth certificates and register newborns. This acknowledges their existence and gives them full rights as citizens. You want to do this from conception? Thye're not the same and you know it.

So what? What do you propose? You want to give equal rights from conception? Investigate every death from conception? I'm sure all the women who have miscarried and had stillbirths would just love that. If you decide to treat fetuses as human beings with full rights, you need extremely draconian laws to protect them starting from conception. Frankly, the situation is not the same as a born child that is living independent of a woman for life support. Until first breath, you're talking about a parasitic relationship. Hard to spot in the beginning and you'd need to get pretty invasive to check that no one's performing DIY abortions at home. And even then, how do you tell the DIY's using meds from the one who is miscarrying?

A fetus and a baby are not the same thing and can't effectively be given the same rights.

A fetus at 30 weeks and a baby ARE the same thing. A fetus at 22 weeks and a baby are the same thing. A fetus at 6 weeks and a baby are the same thing.

A miscarriage and induced abortion are two completely different things; as dying from a heart attack and being killed by deliberate poisoning are two different things. I find it fascinating that one who says a developing child at 22 weeks and a developing child at 22 months are two COMPLETELY different things; one isn't even a person!...can say that abortion and miscarriage are the SAME.

If you made abortion illegal, women would still get abortions. How do you tell miscarriage apart from DIY abortion? I can go buy Misoprostol (used for gastric ulcers and effectively terminates pregnancies) and induce miscarriage/abortion from home. When women miscarry and show up in hospital, you want to investigate each and every one of them to see if they are "murdered" their baby?

By medical criteria, miscarriage and abortion are the same thing. The termination of a pregnancy either spontaneously or by interference.

If you want to make abortion illegal, you'll see more "miscarriages" in ER's that require medical treatment. Are you going to prosecute these women? Are you going to run investigations on every woman that shows up in hospital with a miscarriage? Please tell me how you are going to ensure that the "unborn people" are protected? If they should have absolutely equal rights with everyone, we should have cause of death known for each and every one and that leaves every miscarriage and stillbirth suspect. Can you honestly tell me you want all of these investigated?

What about the abortions/miscarriages that happen less than two months in? They might not even know they're pregnant. But they could do something that could harm their child. We protect children right? Where are you drawing this line to protect the unborn? Please, I really want you to enlighten me how you plan to treat the unborn as equal to everyone else.

 

[koshergrl]

So what? What do you propose? You want to give equal rights from conception? Investigate every death from conception? I'm sure all the women who have miscarried and had stillbirths would just love that. If you decide to treat fetuses as human beings with full rights, you need extremely draconian laws to protect them starting from conception. Frankly, the situation is not the same as a born child that is living independent of a woman for life support. Until first breath, you're talking about a parasitic relationship. Hard to spot in the beginning and you'd need to get pretty invasive to check that no one's performing DIY abortions at home. And even then, how do you tell the DIY's using meds from the one who is miscarrying?

A fetus and a baby are not the same thing and can't effectively be given the same rights.

A fetus at 30 weeks and a baby ARE the same thing. A fetus at 22 weeks and a baby are the same thing. A fetus at 6 weeks and a baby are the same thing.

A miscarriage and induced abortion are two completely different things; as dying from a heart attack and being killed by deliberate poisoning are two different things. I find it fascinating that one who says a developing child at 22 weeks and a developing child at 22 months are two COMPLETELY different things; one isn't even a person!...can say that abortion and miscarriage are the SAME.

If you made abortion illegal, women would still get abortions. How do you tell miscarriage apart from DIY abortion? I can go buy Misoprostol (used for gastric ulcers and effectively terminates pregnancies) and induce miscarriage/abortion from home. When women miscarry and show up in hospital, you want to investigate each and every one of them to see if they are "murdered" their baby?

By medical criteria, miscarriage and abortion are the same thing. The termination of a pregnancy either spontaneously or by interference.

If you want to make abortion illegal, you'll see more "miscarriages" in ER's that require medical treatment. Are you going to prosecute these women? Are you going to run investigations on every woman that shows up in hospital with a miscarriage? Please tell me how you are going to ensure that the "unborn people" are protected? If they should have absolutely equal rights with everyone, we should have cause of death known for each and every one and that leaves every miscarriage and stillbirth suspect. Can you honestly tell me you want all of these investigated?

What about the abortions/miscarriages that happen less than two months in? They might not even know they're pregnant. But they could do something that could harm their child. We protect children right? Where are you drawing this line to protect the unborn? Please, I really want you to enlighten me how you plan to treat the unborn as equal to everyone else.

Drunk driving is illegal..and people still drive drunk. Imagine that. You don't allow people to kill each other without remonstrance just because some will kill each other no matter what.

You people are so hysterical. It gets tiresome. The lies are also tiresome.

BTW, women are in court-mandated treatment and jail as we speak because they were pregnant while using, got caught, and had judgement leveled against them.

 

[Expat]

Sooooo, using that logic, and the tables are turned,.....the man wants to terminate the pregnancy (have the child brutally killed in the womb), yet the woman wants to have the child, then the man should not be held responsible for providing for that child in any way, shape, or form, correct?

I mean, since the man has no say so in the matter, he should not be held to answer for the womans decision, correct?

Where is the fairness to the man in all this?

Basically, a woman can spread her legs for any Slapdick that comes around, and they have all the power to pick and choose, based on convenience or inconvenience, whether to kill that innocent life or not.

In a nutshell, the woman can use abortion as birth control, as many do, while the man has no rights either way.

Seriously, do you ghouls realize how ridiculous you sound?

I believe that if the man doesn't want the baby, and he makes it clear to the woman that he doesn't wish to be a father, then he should be able to relinquish his rights as a father, because I agree, it is unfair that a woman can terminate a pregnancy that the man wants, and he cannot get out of paying child support for a baby he never wanted.

Sooooo, since he should have that right, then he should have the right to say no to an abortion, seeing as though he's 100% just as responsible for creating that life, correct?

Nope. He isn't the one that carries to term. When he can carry to term, he gets to choose. We just said this.

 

[Expat]

How so? By physical appearance? By what?

What does an embryo need that humans dont? Food, water, air? What?

oh that's right you're a callous, selfish person that clubbing is more important to you than children.

A fetus is physically reliant on one person to survive, a newborn baby is not. A newborn baby breathes, a fetus does not.

You know nothing about the miracle of birth and all the changes that take place when a baby takes the first breath, do you?

Are you actually saying a newborn baby can survive on its own?

Because he/she cannot survive on their own.....No way, no how.......A newborn baby is just as reliant on one person to survive as a fetus......And that's a damn fact.

The whole argument you are trying, and seriously failing to make, is abjectly ridiculous.

It doesn't survive only on one woman. Another human being can take care of a newborn as it is no longer reliant one one single human being for life support.

But you knew that and you're just being factitious.

 

[Expat]

Sooooo, since he should have that right, then he should have the right to say no to an abortion, seeing as though he's 100% just as responsible for creating that life, correct?

The man is not pregnant, so of course he has no say.

So a mans participation in the creation of that life, during mutually consented intercourse, with both knowing the possible consequences, is meaningless, as long as that life is an inconvenience to the woman?

What a crock of loony bullshit.

That was your own flawed logic. Life's a bitch. Deal with it. He's not pregnant. She is.

 

[Expat]

Drunk driving is illegal..and people still drive drunk. Imagine that. You don't allow people to kill each other without remonstrance just because some will kill each other no matter what.

You people are so hysterical. It gets tiresome. The lies are also tiresome.

BTW, women are in court-mandated treatment and jail as we speak because they were pregnant while using, got caught, and had judgement leveled against them.

But this isn't just about a criminal act. You want to give FULL RIGHTS from conception because you consider a fetus a person. If a fetus is a person they require registration from conception.

And the court-mandated treatment and jail is something I'm well aware of. Sane countries don't do anything of the sort. That's really something you should be embarrassed about. It's all the more reason Americans should recognize the anti-choice movement for what it is.

 

[Wicked Jester]

I believe that if the man doesn't want the baby, and he makes it clear to the woman that he doesn't wish to be a father, then he should be able to relinquish his rights as a father, because I agree, it is unfair that a woman can terminate a pregnancy that the man wants, and he cannot get out of paying child support for a baby he never wanted.

Sooooo, since he should have that right, then he should have the right to say no to an abortion, seeing as though he's 100% just as responsible for creating that life, correct?

Nope. He isn't the one that carries to term. When he can carry to term, he gets to choose. We just said this.

You just said it, and you were wrong.

It truly is entertaining listening to you ghouls desperately trying to justify your ghoulishness.

 

[Wicked Jester]

A fetus is physically reliant on one person to survive, a newborn baby is not. A newborn baby breathes, a fetus does not.

You know nothing about the miracle of birth and all the changes that take place when a baby takes the first breath, do you?

Are you actually saying a newborn baby can survive on its own?

Because he/she cannot survive on their own.....No way, no how.......A newborn baby is just as reliant on one person to survive as a fetus......And that's a damn fact.

The whole argument you are trying, and seriously failing to make, is abjectly ridiculous.

It doesn't survive only on one woman. Another human being can take care of a newborn as it is no longer reliant one one single human being for life support.

But you knew that and you're just being factitious.

So, you're fully admitting that a newborn child cannot survive on its own, thereby meaning, it's just as dependent on another human as a fetus.

Thanks for playin'!

 

[JoeB131]

Sooooo, since he should have that right, then he should have the right to say no to an abortion, seeing as though he's 100% just as responsible for creating that life, correct?

Nope. He isn't the one that carries to term. When he can carry to term, he gets to choose. We just said this.

You just said it, and you were wrong.

It truly is entertaining listening to you ghouls desperately trying to justify your ghoulishness.

Nothing ghoulish about it.

I am still waiting to see what you Anti-Choice types are willing to give up to reduce the number of abortions.

Are you willing to have universal health care, without any whining that "those people" don't deserve it?

Are you willing to have family and medical leave, where a woman can have a baby without fear of losing her job and income? Because conservatives fought tooth and nail against that one.

 

[Wicked Jester]

The man is not pregnant, so of course he has no say.

So a mans participation in the creation of that life, during mutually consented intercourse, with both knowing the possible consequences, is meaningless, as long as that life is an inconvenience to the woman?

What a crock of loony bullshit.

That was your own flawed logic. Life's a bitch. Deal with it. He's not pregnant. She is.

What part of, she would not be pregnant without the equal participation of the male, do you not understand?

Ya' see, this is the comical flaw in the arguments of you ghouls.....Basically, you cackle on about how it's all about womens rights, while you demean the women as nothing more than a vessel to carry life.

As I said, it truly is entertaining listening to you ghouls desperately trying to justify your ghoulishness, as you support the brutal killing of innocent life, based on nothing more than inconvenience.

 

[JoeB131]

So a mans participation in the creation of that life, during mutually consented intercourse, with both knowing the possible consequences, is meaningless, as long as that life is an inconvenience to the woman?

What a crock of loony bullshit.

That was your own flawed logic. Life's a bitch. Deal with it. He's not pregnant. She is.

What part of, she would not be pregnant without the equal participation of the male, do you not understand?

Ya' see, this is the comical flaw in the arguments of you ghouls.....Basically, you cackle on about how it's all about womens rights, while you demean the women as nothing more than a vessel to carry life.

As I said, it truly is entertaining listening to you ghouls desperately trying to justify your ghoulishness, as you support the brutal killing of innocent life, based on nothing more than inconvenience.

But it's not "equal" participation, that's the point that escapes you. the woman has much more on the line in terms of her health, well-being, and even social status.

A woman who gets off the career path for the Mommy Track is going to be far behind a man on the same track.

As a result, the law HAS to recognize her rights ahead of his in the carrying of a pregnancy.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

Sooooo, since he should have that right, then he should have the right to say no to an abortion, seeing as though he's 100% just as responsible for creating that life, correct?

The man is not pregnant, so of course he has no say.

So a mans participation in the creation of that life, during mutually consented intercourse, with both knowing the possible consequences, is meaningless, as long as that life is an inconvenience to the woman?

What a crock of loony bullshit.

In your subjective and irrelevant opinion.

As a fact of law, however, it is not, prior to birth the woman’s rights are paramount.

 

[Wicked Jester]

Nope. He isn't the one that carries to term. When he can carry to term, he gets to choose. We just said this.

You just said it, and you were wrong.

It truly is entertaining listening to you ghouls desperately trying to justify your ghoulishness.

Nothing ghoulish about it.

I am still waiting to see what you Anti-Choice types are willing to give up to reduce the number of abortions.

Are you willing to have universal health care, without any whining that "those people" don't deserve it?

Are you willing to have family and medical leave, where a woman can have a baby without fear of losing her job and income? Because conservatives fought tooth and nail against that one.

Healthcare is not a right, it's ones own personal responsibility, your health is not my problem, or anybody elses, it's your problem,.....just as it the responsibility of those to understand the possible ramifications of intercourse, whether you use a form BC or not.....If ya' can't handle what might come along, then make better decisions, as opposed to using abortion as back up birth control, which is what you ghouls obviously support.....And don't even try and deny it, 'cause you would be abjectly lying in doing so.

And, it's not up to the government to force business to provide family leave, seeing as though many businesesses cannot afford to absorb the cost of paying one employee to not be there, while having to pay a replacement to do the absent employees job....And then of course, we have commies such as yourself who continually demonize corporations, even though many of those corporations provide family leave to their employees, because they can afford to do so.......So, what happens when those corporations who you demonize, are forced to cut back when you clowns go after them....What happens is, jobs are cut, benefits are cut, and family leave policies go away.

Ya' see, that's the problem with you ghouls, and communists such as yourself.....You have no idea what the ramifications will be on small businesses, the heartbeat of this country, when you try and shove unaffordable BS down their throats.....And, we are already seeing that small businesses are planning on cutting back jobs, in order to abide by Obama's bullshit mandate, or planning on simply paying the fines imposed, as opposed to abiding by Obama's BS, because they simply cannot afford to abide by it......And then of course, you've got Obama unleashing the IRS dogs on our citizens who don't abide by the mandate.....Which is going to spell disaster for the dem's come '16, when the american people have had two years to witness the devastating effects of this albatross of a bill.