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[Intense]

In the Koran, the only permissible war is one of self-defense. Muslims may not begin hostilities (2: 190).

Warfare is always evil, but sometimes you have to fight in order to avoid the kind of persecution that Mecca inflicted on the Muslims (2: 191; 2: 217) or to preserve decent values (4: 75; 22: 40).

The Koran quotes the Torah, the Jewish scriptures, which permits people to retaliate eye for eye, tooth for tooth, but like the Gospels, the Koran suggests that it is meritorious to forgo revenge in a spirit of charity (5: 45).

Hostilities must be brought to an end as quickly as possible and must cease the minute the enemy sues for peace (2: 192- 3).
The True, Peaceful Face Of Islam

Maybe you and Kalam could take us on a guided tour of Mecca then???

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

You're a cynic. I'm not.

Im not going to ignore what Islam teaches.

Actually, you ignore what Islam teaches. You ignore everything peaceful and beautiful in it.

You're a cynic.

No Those part of Islam are fine,Islamic art is wonderful , but they dont concern me to the degree the killing me does.
See how priorities work?

 

[Intense]

Thank you. Tell that to Intense, Ropey, Fitnah and Logical. They think ALL of Islam is INHERENTLY violent.

If you want to know what I think, why tell me?

Why don't you simply ask me what I think about that highlighted statement.

\\Ropey? Do you think ALL of Islam is INHERENTLY violent?//

Considering I have already posted the opposite on this thread I add to the view that your mind is quite disordered.

You have seen me stand for Islam here. You have seen me strongly and clearly state that I do not see Islam as evil. That no book written to fight evil can truly be evil, but the interpretations can be higher degrees of evil.

She doesn't let the truth get in the way of a good story, does she?

Nope! She does not want to accept the effect of the power of the Sword in Islam. The Poetry is so good though. I guarantee you that has nothing to do with the quality of the Hash. Edgar Allen Poe Never did Hallucinogenics either. George Washington never grew Hemp. Hemingway never drank.

 

[Ropey]

In the Koran, the only permissible war is one of self-defense. Muslims may not begin hostilities (2: 190).

Warfare is always evil, but sometimes you have to fight in order to avoid the kind of persecution that Mecca inflicted on the Muslims (2: 191; 2: 217) or to preserve decent values (4: 75; 22: 40).

The Koran quotes the Torah, the Jewish scriptures, which permits people to retaliate eye for eye, tooth for tooth, but like the Gospels, the Koran suggests that it is meritorious to forgo revenge in a spirit of charity (5: 45).

Hostilities must be brought to an end as quickly as possible and must cease the minute the enemy sues for peace (2: 192- 3).
The True, Peaceful Face Of Islam

Maybe you and Kalam could take us on a guided tour of Mecca then???

Not a good place for this Jew.

You might not make it to Mecca because you are an unbeliever, but me?

I have a t-shirt that says, "this land is my land" though. I wonder how well that would go over in Saudi Arabia?

 

[Sky Dancer]

Im not going to ignore what Islam teaches.

Actually, you ignore what Islam teaches. You ignore everything peaceful and beautiful in it.

You're a cynic.

No Those part of Islam are fine,Islamic art is wonderful , but they dont concern me to the degree the killing me does.
See how priorities work?

I've posted examples directly from the Q'uran which are peaceful. You ignore them.

You're a cynic.

 

[Ropey]

Kalam, Yes or NO, Do You believe that a Person Exercising Conscience, Choosing to Convert to Another Religion, should be Executed??? Do you believe it is even a Crime???

That depends on the the nature of the "exercise of conscience."

Conversion from Islam to Buddhism. Conversion from Islam to Christian. Conversion from Islam to Atheist.

I await the response for this as well. Let's define this shall we Kalam?

Continue.

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

In the Koran, the only permissible war is one of self-defense. Muslims may not begin hostilities (2: 190).

190. And fight in the Way of Allah those who fight you, but transgress not the limits. Truly, Allah likes not the transgressors.

191. And kill them wherever you find them, and turn them out from where they have turned you out. And Al-Fitnah is worse than killing. And fight not with them at Al-Masjid-al-Haram (the sanctuary at Makkah), unless they (first) fight you there. But if they attack you, then kill them. Such is the recompense of the disbelievers.

192. But if they cease, then Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.

193. And fight them until there is no more Fitnah (disbelief and worshipping of others along with Allah) and (all and every kind of) worship is for Allah (Alone). But if they cease, let there be no transgression except against Az-Zalimun (the polytheists, and wrong-doers, etc.)Complete English Translation of The Noble Quran

Warfare is always evil, but sometimes you have to fight in order to avoid the kind of persecution that Mecca inflicted on the Muslims (2: 191; 2: 217) or to preserve decent values (4: 75; 22: 40).

What does that mean preserve decent values

9:111. Verily, Allah has purchased of the believers their lives and their properties; for the price that theirs shall be the Paradise. They fight in Allah's Cause, so they kill (others) and are killed. It is a promise in truth which is binding on Him in the Taurat (Torah) and the Injeel (Gospel) and the Qur'an. And who is truer to his covenant than Allah? Then rejoice in the bargain which you have concluded. That is the supreme success .

9:112. (The believers whose lives Allah has purchased are) those who repent to Allah (from polytheism and hypocrisy, etc.), who worship Him, who praise Him, who fast (or go out in Allah's Cause), who bow down (in prayer), who prostrate themselves (in prayer), who enjoin (people) for Al-Ma'ruf

(i.e. Islamic Monotheism and all what Islam has ordained) and forbid (people) from Al-Munkar (i.e. disbelief, polytheism of all kinds and all that Islam has forbidden), and who observe the limits set by Allah (do all that Allah has ordained and abstain from all kinds of sins and evil deeds which Allah has forbidden). And give glad tidings to the believers.

 

[Sky Dancer]

If you want to know what I think, why tell me?

Why don't you simply ask me what I think about that highlighted statement.

\\Ropey? Do you think ALL of Islam is INHERENTLY violent?//

Considering I have already posted the opposite on this thread I add to the view that your mind is quite disordered.

She doesn't let the truth get in the way of a good story, does she?

Nope! She does not want to accept the effect of the power of the Sword in Islam. The Poetry is so good though. I guarantee you that has nothing to do with the quality of the Hash. Edgar Allen Poe Never did Hallucinogenics either. George Washington never grew Hemp. Hemingway never drank.

So, now I'm a drug addict? Why? Because I'm not a cynic?

 

[Intense]

I'm thinking Arabian Night's and the Death of a thousand cuts, or whatever. Here is a nice link you might make use of Kalam.


http://www.arabiannights.org/index2.html

 

[Kalam]

Kalam, Yes or NO, Do You believe that a Person Exercising Conscience, Choosing to Convert to Another Religion, should be Executed??? Do you believe it is even a Crime???

That depends on the the nature of the "exercise of conscience."

Conversion from Islam to Buddhism. Conversion from Islam to Christian. Conversion from Islam to Atheist.

If they don't feel the need to turn their apostasy into a public affair, their recompense is in the hereafter. If they begin denouncing and acting against their former religion, I opine that execution for treason is appropriate. Of course, this assumes the existence of a legitimate Islamic state with a functioning judicial system.

 

[Jos]

TheReligionofPeace.com is a blog by one person, who hides under the name of glen reinsford aka peter oliver aka linda lucile oliver of highland drive in Marietta Ga.

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

Actually, you ignore what Islam teaches. You ignore everything peaceful and beautiful in it.

You're a cynic.

No Those part of Islam are fine,Islamic art is wonderful , but they dont concern me to the degree the killing me does.
See how priorities work?

I've posted examples directly from the Q'uran which are peaceful. You ignore them.

You're a cynic.

You dont know what you are posting from the Quran as you dont know the context and do not post the tafsir nor know the circumstances.
You are a tool.

 

[Sky Dancer]

In the Koran, the only permissible war is one of self-defense. Muslims may not begin hostilities (2: 190).

190. And fight in the Way of Allah those who fight you, but transgress not the limits. Truly, Allah likes not the transgressors.

191. And kill them wherever you find them, and turn them out from where they have turned you out. And Al-Fitnah is worse than killing. And fight not with them at Al-Masjid-al-Haram (the sanctuary at Makkah), unless they (first) fight you there. But if they attack you, then kill them. Such is the recompense of the disbelievers.

192. But if they cease, then Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.

193. And fight them until there is no more Fitnah (disbelief and worshipping of others along with Allah) and (all and every kind of) worship is for Allah (Alone). But if they cease, let there be no transgression except against Az-Zalimun (the polytheists, and wrong-doers, etc.)Complete English Translation of The Noble Quran

Warfare is always evil, but sometimes you have to fight in order to avoid the kind of persecution that Mecca inflicted on the Muslims (2: 191; 2: 217) or to preserve decent values (4: 75; 22: 40).

What does that mean preserve decent values

9:111. Verily, Allah has purchased of the believers their lives and their properties; for the price that theirs shall be the Paradise. They fight in Allah's Cause, so they kill (others) and are killed. It is a promise in truth which is binding on Him in the Taurat (Torah) and the Injeel (Gospel) and the Qur'an. And who is truer to his covenant than Allah? Then rejoice in the bargain which you have concluded. That is the supreme success .

9:112. (The believers whose lives Allah has purchased are) those who repent to Allah (from polytheism and hypocrisy, etc.), who worship Him, who praise Him, who fast (or go out in Allah's Cause), who bow down (in prayer), who prostrate themselves (in prayer), who enjoin (people) for Al-Ma'ruf

(i.e. Islamic Monotheism and all what Islam has ordained) and forbid (people) from Al-Munkar (i.e. disbelief, polytheism of all kinds and all that Islam has forbidden), and who observe the limits set by Allah (do all that Allah has ordained and abstain from all kinds of sins and evil deeds which Allah has forbidden). And give glad tidings to the believers.

What translation does this come from?

Link please.


You're reading this literally, I take it. Do you read the Bible that way too?

 

[Intense]

She doesn't let the truth get in the way of a good story, does she?

Nope! She does not want to accept the effect of the power of the Sword in Islam. The Poetry is so good though. I guarantee you that has nothing to do with the quality of the Hash. Edgar Allen Poe Never did Hallucinogenics either. George Washington never grew Hemp. Hemingway never drank.

So, now I'm a drug addict? Why? Because I'm not a cynic?

Where do you come up with these responses??? You may need to cut back on the Caffeine.

If there is any supposition at all, it is that you are naive.

 

[Kalam]

That depends on the the nature of the "exercise of conscience."

Conversion from Islam to Buddhism. Conversion from Islam to Christian. Conversion from Islam to Atheist.

If they don't feel the need to turn their apostasy into a public affair, their recompense is in the hereafter. If they begin denouncing and acting against their former religion, I opine that execution for treason is appropriate. Of course, this assumes the existence of a legitimate Islamic state with a functioning judicial system.

This is my viewpoint alone. Abu Hanifa (RA) would not execute a female apostate, for instance.

 

[Ropey]

Of course, this assumes the existence of a legitimate Islamic state with a functioning judicial system.

Is there any such state at this moment?

If they don't feel the need to turn their apostasy into a public affair, their recompense is in the hereafter. If they begin denouncing and acting against their former religion, I opine that execution for treason is appropriate. Of course, this assumes the existence of a legitimate Islamic state with a functioning judicial system.

So, to speak out against Islamic principles brings an appropriate sentence of death in your view? Is that what you are saying?

 

[Sky Dancer]

No Those part of Islam are fine,Islamic art is wonderful , but they dont concern me to the degree the killing me does.
See how priorities work?

I've posted examples directly from the Q'uran which are peaceful. You ignore them.

You're a cynic.

You dont know what you are posting from the Quran as you dont know the context and do not post the tafsir nor know the circumstances.
You are a tool.

I provide links. You do not.

I don't know the expression, "you are a tool". I suppose it's some insult. That's your strategy when I present other quote from the Q'uran that counter your premise?

Nice.

 

[Sky Dancer]

Nope! She does not want to accept the effect of the power of the Sword in Islam. The Poetry is so good though. I guarantee you that has nothing to do with the quality of the Hash. Edgar Allen Poe Never did Hallucinogenics either. George Washington never grew Hemp. Hemingway never drank.

So, now I'm a drug addict? Why? Because I'm not a cynic?

Where do you come up with these responses??? You may need to cut back on the Caffeine.

If there is any supposition at all, it is that you are naive.

What I am, is open hearted, not cynical. Rather than look for the evil, I look for the good.

It's basic Buddhism.

 

[Kalam]

Conversion from Islam to Buddhism. Conversion from Islam to Christian. Conversion from Islam to Atheist.

If they don't feel the need to turn their apostasy into a public affair, their recompense is in the hereafter. If they begin denouncing and acting against their former religion, I opine that execution for treason is appropriate. Of course, this assumes the existence of a legitimate Islamic state with a functioning judicial system.

Is there any such state at this moment?

Not one with control over the territory it claims, no. Somalia's ICU almost had it right, but its structure wasn't unitary enough and corrupting influences such as al-Qa'idah reduced its youth movement to the sorry group of delinquents we see running around today.

 

[Intense]

Conversion from Islam to Buddhism. Conversion from Islam to Christian. Conversion from Islam to Atheist.

If they don't feel the need to turn their apostasy into a public affair, their recompense is in the hereafter. If they begin denouncing and acting against their former religion, I opine that execution for treason is appropriate. Of course, this assumes the existence of a legitimate Islamic state with a functioning judicial system.

This is my viewpoint alone. Abu Hanifa (RA) would not execute a female apostate, for instance.

For example, I view this statement as a reformed approach, which is positive direction in my eye's. We do control Ourselves, individually, internally. Let' not confuse Individual conviction with turning our back on our Creator. Individual Conscience puts the Creator above our preconceived notion of Him, that is all, it does not necessarily result in confrontation with established belief. It Proves the Value of the lesson in "The Emperor's New Suit" diverted, corrupted thinking, which does plague Mankind as a whole. Look to the suffering of the Prophets for the Sake of Truth and Righteousness.