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Trump promised us a wall, and he knows how important it is to keep voters motivated. DHS wants the wall. In video clips we see how it does stop all but the most athletic climbers. If you saw the 6,000 member caravans going to Tijuana to get into the US any way they can, you'd know that the new wall is really needed. We can't afford open borders.
Not crying, only asking the question if this wall is more of a political slogan. A question you could ask yourself too.I don’t have the energy to over-repeat myself. Please, the Berlin Wall had only local impact. It surrounded West Berlin. We can agree of its purpose, however that was not the open and official stand point of those who built it.Alright.Well, it’s a matter of definition now, isn’t it? This wall was built by a communist dictatorship. In to the west or out from the east?
It’s pretty obvious today. But no free democratic country was advocating for that wall to be built.
It was “sold” as a protective measure by those who built it.
Point here is that e v e n if a wall serve a purpose you have to take in to account the signal it sends. And then weight it’s practical value to that.
It was built to stop East Germans from escaping to freedom.
No one, other than a few idiots, wanted to go from freedom to communist slavery.
I don’t know if this is worth it.
The wall served a purpose. Pretty obvious too. But it wasn’t presented as that, get it? They didn’t tell East Germans that they would be kept inside. They said this wall was - protection.
We know history. It’s not that. The wall went to pure symbolic action- it was all it did. The number of people, the drama, suffering is utterly marginal. That wall had no effect at all on a grand scale, order than that of symbol. An iron curtain.
It was more than symbolic - if the Berlin Wall had not been built, East Germans would have left in droves. They risked getting shot to get out of there and many of them died trying, and it sure as hell wasn't to keep anybody out. Our proposed wall is the reverse, it is only one part of an overall solution to reduce illegal immigration and the flow of illegal drugs and anything else into the US. What makes this whole thing so vexing is that the democrats voted for that wall 12 years ago, but now that Trump wants it they're voting against it.
So, with that said - the real practical use of any such installation might be more about sending signals than creating a long term change.
You have to marvel at the utter irony of a poster from Stockholm Sweden named Erik the Viking who is all but CRYING about a foreign nation wanting to defend its own borders with a wall. From foreign invaders.
Has anyone but me let this sink in? Because here we are at the close of 2018: Erik THE VIKING is crying about a foreign nation defending its borders from foreign invaders with a wall.
Just....I need all the GIFs for this one, Erik the Viking.
Not crying, only asking the question if this wall is more of a political slogan. A question you could ask yourself too.I don’t have the energy to over-repeat myself. Please, the Berlin Wall had only local impact. It surrounded West Berlin. We can agree of its purpose, however that was not the open and official stand point of those who built it.Alright.It was built to stop East Germans from escaping to freedom.
No one, other than a few idiots, wanted to go from freedom to communist slavery.
I don’t know if this is worth it.
The wall served a purpose. Pretty obvious too. But it wasn’t presented as that, get it? They didn’t tell East Germans that they would be kept inside. They said this wall was - protection.
We know history. It’s not that. The wall went to pure symbolic action- it was all it did. The number of people, the drama, suffering is utterly marginal. That wall had no effect at all on a grand scale, order than that of symbol. An iron curtain.
It was more than symbolic - if the Berlin Wall had not been built, East Germans would have left in droves. They risked getting shot to get out of there and many of them died trying, and it sure as hell wasn't to keep anybody out. Our proposed wall is the reverse, it is only one part of an overall solution to reduce illegal immigration and the flow of illegal drugs and anything else into the US. What makes this whole thing so vexing is that the democrats voted for that wall 12 years ago, but now that Trump wants it they're voting against it.
So, with that said - the real practical use of any such installation might be more about sending signals than creating a long term change.
You have to marvel at the utter irony of a poster from Stockholm Sweden named Erik the Viking who is all but CRYING about a foreign nation wanting to defend its own borders with a wall. From foreign invaders.
Has anyone but me let this sink in? Because here we are at the close of 2018: Erik THE VIKING is crying about a foreign nation defending its borders from foreign invaders with a wall.
Just....I need all the GIFs for this one, Erik the Viking.
The rethoric and emotions are sky high. You shut down government to speed things up. No patience or thought through arguments.
---------------------------------------------------------- border security has been being thought about since the 50s when IKE with my Parents Help did his Operation Wetback and that Operation worked fine for my Generation that grew up in the 50s and 60s and then went to work in the mid 60s . And then 'reagan and bush' fecked things up in the mid 80s [86 i think] with their amnesty for 3 million and part of that deal was that the USA would get Border Security which has never happened Erik . Build the WALL and clean up the embedded that are in the USA and do it for future generations of Americans Erik .Not crying, only asking the question if this wall is more of a political slogan. A question you could ask yourself too.I don’t have the energy to over-repeat myself. Please, the Berlin Wall had only local impact. It surrounded West Berlin. We can agree of its purpose, however that was not the open and official stand point of those who built it.Alright.It was built to stop East Germans from escaping to freedom.
No one, other than a few idiots, wanted to go from freedom to communist slavery.
I don’t know if this is worth it.
The wall served a purpose. Pretty obvious too. But it wasn’t presented as that, get it? They didn’t tell East Germans that they would be kept inside. They said this wall was - protection.
We know history. It’s not that. The wall went to pure symbolic action- it was all it did. The number of people, the drama, suffering is utterly marginal. That wall had no effect at all on a grand scale, order than that of symbol. An iron curtain.
It was more than symbolic - if the Berlin Wall had not been built, East Germans would have left in droves. They risked getting shot to get out of there and many of them died trying, and it sure as hell wasn't to keep anybody out. Our proposed wall is the reverse, it is only one part of an overall solution to reduce illegal immigration and the flow of illegal drugs and anything else into the US. What makes this whole thing so vexing is that the democrats voted for that wall 12 years ago, but now that Trump wants it they're voting against it.
So, with that said - the real practical use of any such installation might be more about sending signals than creating a long term change.
You have to marvel at the utter irony of a poster from Stockholm Sweden named Erik the Viking who is all but CRYING about a foreign nation wanting to defend its own borders with a wall. From foreign invaders.
Has anyone but me let this sink in? Because here we are at the close of 2018: Erik THE VIKING is crying about a foreign nation defending its borders from foreign invaders with a wall.
Just....I need all the GIFs for this one, Erik the Viking.
The rethoric and emotions are sky high. You shut down government to speed things up. No patience or thought through arguments.
----------------------- the Gov is partially shut down . Military is working as well as most other police agencies and other stuff . Shutdown is NO big deal Erik .Not crying, only asking the question if this wall is more of a political slogan. A question you could ask yourself too.I don’t have the energy to over-repeat myself. Please, the Berlin Wall had only local impact. It surrounded West Berlin. We can agree of its purpose, however that was not the open and official stand point of those who built it.Alright.It was built to stop East Germans from escaping to freedom.
No one, other than a few idiots, wanted to go from freedom to communist slavery.
I don’t know if this is worth it.
The wall served a purpose. Pretty obvious too. But it wasn’t presented as that, get it? They didn’t tell East Germans that they would be kept inside. They said this wall was - protection.
We know history. It’s not that. The wall went to pure symbolic action- it was all it did. The number of people, the drama, suffering is utterly marginal. That wall had no effect at all on a grand scale, order than that of symbol. An iron curtain.
It was more than symbolic - if the Berlin Wall had not been built, East Germans would have left in droves. They risked getting shot to get out of there and many of them died trying, and it sure as hell wasn't to keep anybody out. Our proposed wall is the reverse, it is only one part of an overall solution to reduce illegal immigration and the flow of illegal drugs and anything else into the US. What makes this whole thing so vexing is that the democrats voted for that wall 12 years ago, but now that Trump wants it they're voting against it.
So, with that said - the real practical use of any such installation might be more about sending signals than creating a long term change.
You have to marvel at the utter irony of a poster from Stockholm Sweden named Erik the Viking who is all but CRYING about a foreign nation wanting to defend its own borders with a wall. From foreign invaders.
Has anyone but me let this sink in? Because here we are at the close of 2018: Erik THE VIKING is crying about a foreign nation defending its borders from foreign invaders with a wall.
Just....I need all the GIFs for this one, Erik the Viking.
The rethoric and emotions are sky high. You shut down government to speed things up. No patience or thought through arguments.
You are both fucking idiots! The reason the Wall was built in Germany was to STOP the Germans in the eastern part of the city from fleeing to West Germany AKA where 99.99% of the East Germans wanted to flee to."Nobody has the intention of building a wall." - GDR head of state Walter Ulbricht, East Berlin, June 15th 1961
A few month later, in August 1961 he thanked the labour force for erecting this wall.
It’s purpose; protecting eastern Germany from western spies, insurgents and intrusion of undesirable elements.
A wall is always going to have two sides. Perhaps the actual, acute need for a wall, in reality, isn’t that desperate? More like a political trophy of some kind?
You hit the nail on the head!
The actual intent was to keep residents of East Berlin in East Berlin – something the Berlin Wall failed miserably to do."Nobody has the intention of building a wall." - GDR head of state Walter Ulbricht, East Berlin, June 15th 1961
A few month later, in August 1961 he thanked the labour force for erecting this wall.
It’s purpose; protecting eastern Germany from western spies, insurgents and intrusion of undesirable elements.
A wall is always going to have two sides. Perhaps the actual, acute need for a wall, in reality, isn’t that desperate? More like a political trophy of some kind?
------------------------------------------------------- who wants third world change in the USA the most successful and best Nation the world has ever seen . We know what 'third worlders' build , all we need do is look South of the USA Border Clayton .The actual intent was to keep residents of East Berlin in East Berlin – something the Berlin Wall failed miserably to do."Nobody has the intention of building a wall." - GDR head of state Walter Ulbricht, East Berlin, June 15th 1961
A few month later, in August 1961 he thanked the labour force for erecting this wall.
It’s purpose; protecting eastern Germany from western spies, insurgents and intrusion of undesirable elements.
A wall is always going to have two sides. Perhaps the actual, acute need for a wall, in reality, isn’t that desperate? More like a political trophy of some kind?
Just as Trump’s ‘wall’ of fear, bigotry, and hate will fail.
Indeed, both walls were about politics, not keeping people out (or in).
And both walls were about fear and contempt for freedom and liberty.
For the Soviet Union the fear was that liberal, democratic West Berlin would have the effect of ‘contaminating’ the East German police state with ‘dangerous’ ideas of freedom and liberty.
For Trump and his supporters, the ‘border wall’ represents their unwarranted fear of change and diversity, and their bigotry and fear of more ‘brown people’ who speak Spanish coming into the United States.
You dumbasses. If the wall is built Mexico will pay for it! Want to know how? Theirgutter rats can no longer sneak across the border, steal I’d, work under the table and send money back to Mexico. Do you get that this practice is a major part of Mexico’s economy! Do ewe have the ability too think outside libtarded talking points?Trump promised us a wall.
Trump promised us a wall that Mexico would pay for.
The Berlin Wall was a symbol for authoritarianism, oppression, and contempt for freedom and liberty.Exactly, wouldn’t you agree that the recent binary wall or no wall = secure or totally overrun is a bit exaggerated? This wall is already serving as a symbol than anything else?Zoom out. The wall had no real strategic impact. It simply didn’t matter, it only isolated West Berlin deep inside the east bloc.
As a symbol, however it was very powerful. It was the symbol of the Cold War, with it’s fall marking the end.
Surely you can see this?
I haven't denied it was a symbol. Arguably, what was really marking the end was Hungary letting folks travel to the West in 1989. That was when the wall became pointless. Politicians may have been hyperventilating about "the wall fell", but that was just the ratification of what happened earlier. Photogenic, and welcome news, but no longer that important.
Arguably, the wall / fence, locking the population in the east in, added at least 20 years to the GDR's life. A generation. I don't really give a damn whether you call that a "real strategic impact". It profoundly affected the lives of a whole generation, of millions of people. And no, it didn't secure the regime forever. Gorbachev saw to that.
Let’s consider the lunacy coming from the right:Trump promised us a wall, and he knows how important it is to keep voters motivated. DHS wants the wall. In video clips we see how it does stop all but the most athletic climbers. If you saw the 6,000 member caravans going to Tijuana to get into the US any way they can, you'd know that the new wall is really needed. We can't afford open borders.
He promised that Mexico would pay for it... People voted on getting free wall... Why does the tax payer need to pay for it...
Trump promised people a free Model T Ford, the wall was meant to be free and it is out of date...
BTW: More Canadians overstay their visa passes than Mexicans...
Congressman Tim Ryan on Twitter
The Berlin Wall was a symbol for authoritarianism, oppression, and contempt for freedom and liberty.
The Trump ‘wall’ is a symbol for fear, bigotry, ignorance, and hate.
They have Home Depot in Mexico now; we should insist they buy American ladders. They are our third largest trading partner.You dumbasses. If the wall is built Mexico will pay for it! Want to know how? Theirgutter rats can no longer sneak across the border, steal I’d, work under the table and send money back to Mexico. Do you get that this practice is a major part of Mexico’s economy! Do ewe have the ability too think outside libtarded talking points?Trump promised us a wall.
Trump promised us a wall that Mexico would pay for.
Yeah. I think most people know this. The premise is this:You are both fucking idiots! The reason the Wall was built in Germany was to STOP the Germans in the eastern part of the city from fleeing to West Germany AKA where 99.99% of the East Germans wanted to flee to."Nobody has the intention of building a wall." - GDR head of state Walter Ulbricht, East Berlin, June 15th 1961
A few month later, in August 1961 he thanked the labour force for erecting this wall.
It’s purpose; protecting eastern Germany from western spies, insurgents and intrusion of undesirable elements.
A wall is always going to have two sides. Perhaps the actual, acute need for a wall, in reality, isn’t that desperate? More like a political trophy of some kind?
You hit the nail on the head!
East Germans were shot and killed by eastern German troops if they went too close to the wall.
Fucking WISE UP!
You think the 'US' gives a shit what a bunch of european socialist countries 'think' about the US?The Berlin Wall was a symbol for authoritarianism, oppression, and contempt for freedom and liberty.
The Trump ‘wall’ is a symbol for fear, bigotry, ignorance, and hate.
See, Erik, that's what you get when declaring a real thing a "symbol", and debate it at that level. Everyone "sees" into it whatever they like to see. (Never mind, C!)
The Berlin wall was a rather desperate attempt at keeping their socialist experiment viable, and keeping sovereign control over their border and population. It was also inhumane, and an atrocity. Because of that, it also undermined the appeal of any socialist ideas, and thus is also one of the reasons why "socialism" is a smear in much of the world.
The Trump Wall is also a "symbol" of hope amongst the nativist crowd, and Trump's rather desperate attempt at keeping that crowd happy, because otherwise they have nothing of any value to expect from his rule. It is also inhumane, and an atrocity. Because of that, it will (in case it is built, and even due to the plans to build it) result in further decline of the U.S.'s standing in the world, as what was formerly known as the benevolent empire is besmirched and diminished by setting racism and lack of generosity with the downtrodden in stone, or steel, as the case may be.
Let’s consider the lunacy coming from the right:Trump promised us a wall, and he knows how important it is to keep voters motivated. DHS wants the wall. In video clips we see how it does stop all but the most athletic climbers. If you saw the 6,000 member caravans going to Tijuana to get into the US any way they can, you'd know that the new wall is really needed. We can't afford open borders.
He promised that Mexico would pay for it... People voted on getting free wall... Why does the tax payer need to pay for it...
Trump promised people a free Model T Ford, the wall was meant to be free and it is out of date...
BTW: More Canadians overstay their visa passes than Mexicans...
Congressman Tim Ryan on Twitter
Conservatives want to waste billions of dollars on a ‘wall’ they’ve been told won’t work, a ‘wall’ that will have little effect keeping anyone out. Conservatives have forever abandoned any claim to being ‘fiscally responsible.’
