Abraham? Really?

[irosie91]

He had a concubine. Actually two if you count hagar. Although some scholars have said they were the same person.
He married his sister
He was subordinate to his sister wife
Made an illegitimate child and kicked him out
Lied to his son that he was going to kill him
He was obviously mentally ill. With some incest and sins in there.
My point is, how did this crazy person become the patriarch of Judaism, Christianity and Islam?
Apparently, despite all of these moral flaws and repugnant behavior, he was still chosen by god for loyalty. This "moral" God was able to look past all of his sins because he was willing to kill his child? WTF
And people say atheists have no morals? Lol

And David had his best friend killed so he could have his wife.
Everyone in the Bible has some serious flaws.
God is about redemption. What better way to show that than to select examples of God's grace.

BTW - it was not Abrahams sister. She was his niece.

Yes and all it took was loyalty. Sounds a little tyrannical, no?
I thought they had same father?

no Uriah was actually a FOREIGNER-------a mercenary. It was a big ginormus sin

 

[TNHarley]

I put this in wrong forum
flacaltenn Coyote WillHaftawaite

 

[Weatherman2020]

He had a concubine. Actually two if you count hagar. Although some scholars have said they were the same person.
He married his sister
He was subordinate to his sister wife
Made an illegitimate child and kicked him out
Lied to his son that he was going to kill him
He was obviously mentally ill. With some incest and sins in there.
My point is, how did this crazy person become the patriarch of Judaism, Christianity and Islam?
Apparently, despite all of these moral flaws and repugnant behavior, he was still chosen by god for loyalty. This "moral" God was able to look past all of his sins because he was willing to kill his child? WTF
And people say atheists have no morals? Lol

And David had his best friend killed so he could have his wife.
Everyone in the Bible has some serious flaws.
God is about redemption. What better way to show that than to select examples of God's grace.

BTW - it was not Abrahams sister. She was his niece.

Yes and all it took was loyalty. Sounds a little tyrannical, no?
I thought they had same father?

One has the freedom to follow or not. That is not tyranny.

And the explanation on relationships:
Christian Polygamy

 

[Auld Phart]

I put this in wrong forum
flacaltenn Coyote WillHaftawaite

moved

 

[TNHarley]

He had a concubine. Actually two if you count hagar. Although some scholars have said they were the same person.
He married his sister
He was subordinate to his sister wife
Made an illegitimate child and kicked him out
Lied to his son that he was going to kill him
He was obviously mentally ill. With some incest and sins in there.
My point is, how did this crazy person become the patriarch of Judaism, Christianity and Islam?
Apparently, despite all of these moral flaws and repugnant behavior, he was still chosen by god for loyalty. This "moral" God was able to look past all of his sins because he was willing to kill his child? WTF
And people say atheists have no morals? Lol

And David had his best friend killed so he could have his wife.
Everyone in the Bible has some serious flaws.
God is about redemption. What better way to show that than to select examples of God's grace.

BTW - it was not Abrahams sister. She was his niece.

Yes and all it took was loyalty. Sounds a little tyrannical, no?
I thought they had same father?

One has the freedom to follow or not. That is not tyranny.

And the explanation on relationships:
Christian Polygamy

Him overlooking everything because he was willing to kill his son for him? IDK man.. its arbitrary

 

[Weatherman2020]

He had a concubine. Actually two if you count hagar. Although some scholars have said they were the same person.
He married his sister
He was subordinate to his sister wife
Made an illegitimate child and kicked him out
Lied to his son that he was going to kill him
He was obviously mentally ill. With some incest and sins in there.
My point is, how did this crazy person become the patriarch of Judaism, Christianity and Islam?
Apparently, despite all of these moral flaws and repugnant behavior, he was still chosen by god for loyalty. This "moral" God was able to look past all of his sins because he was willing to kill his child? WTF
And people say atheists have no morals? Lol

And David had his best friend killed so he could have his wife.
Everyone in the Bible has some serious flaws.
God is about redemption. What better way to show that than to select examples of God's grace.

BTW - it was not Abrahams sister. She was his niece.

Yes and all it took was loyalty. Sounds a little tyrannical, no?
I thought they had same father?

One has the freedom to follow or not. That is not tyranny.

And the explanation on relationships:
Christian Polygamy

Him overlooking everything because he was willing to kill his son for him? IDK man.. its arbitrary

Metaphor for what was going to happen in 32AD.

 

[OldLady]

He had a concubine. Actually two if you count hagar. Although some scholars have said they were the same person.
He married his sister
He was subordinate to his sister wife
Made an illegitimate child and kicked him out
Lied to his son that he was going to kill him
He was obviously mentally ill. With some incest and sins in there.
My point is, how did this crazy person become the patriarch of Judaism, Christianity and Islam?
Apparently, despite all of these moral flaws and repugnant behavior, he was still chosen by god for loyalty. This "moral" God was able to look past all of his sins because he was willing to kill his child? WTF
And people say atheists have no morals? Lol

TN you should read the story in Genesis.
Abraham married his half sister.
I don't know what you mean, was "subordinate to his sister wife."
He had many children by concubines, it says in Genesis. He wanted a legitimate child, but Sarah was barren, so finally, after listening to Abraham bellyache about it for years, she said okay, I'll let you make a baby with my personal servant Hagar and we'll call the child legitimate. It was done, but Sarah became jealous of Hagar and threw a fit, so Abraham had to relocate Hagar and the baby Ishmael. Abraham vowed he would never forget him, and he never did.
That sacrificing Isaac story is one of the most memorable in the Bible. But what you got from it that Abraham lied to Isaac about it?

I got a very different understanding of what went on when I read his story.

Sarah is the one that told abraham to get rid of Ishmael and hagar. Thats what i meant by that. I believe he was troubled so he asked god and he told him to do it. Isaac was his seed.
He lied to him and said they were going to sacrifice a goat or something. He was a coward.
Why would it be "memorable" when he was about kill his own child? PLEASE explain that

Are you serious? If one of your kiddos was about to die and you knew it, you would tell him so he could spend the last hours of his life terrified? okay. I would until the end insist that everything was okay. When the lights went out, it would be an instantaneous thing with no fear.
And NO, I would not spend the rest of my days agonizing over being dishonest. It's called protection.

 

[TNHarley]

He had a concubine. Actually two if you count hagar. Although some scholars have said they were the same person.
He married his sister
He was subordinate to his sister wife
Made an illegitimate child and kicked him out
Lied to his son that he was going to kill him
He was obviously mentally ill. With some incest and sins in there.
My point is, how did this crazy person become the patriarch of Judaism, Christianity and Islam?
Apparently, despite all of these moral flaws and repugnant behavior, he was still chosen by god for loyalty. This "moral" God was able to look past all of his sins because he was willing to kill his child? WTF
And people say atheists have no morals? Lol

TN you should read the story in Genesis.
Abraham married his half sister.
I don't know what you mean, was "subordinate to his sister wife."
He had many children by concubines, it says in Genesis. He wanted a legitimate child, but Sarah was barren, so finally, after listening to Abraham bellyache about it for years, she said okay, I'll let you make a baby with my personal servant Hagar and we'll call the child legitimate. It was done, but Sarah became jealous of Hagar and threw a fit, so Abraham had to relocate Hagar and the baby Ishmael. Abraham vowed he would never forget him, and he never did.
That sacrificing Isaac story is one of the most memorable in the Bible. But what you got from it that Abraham lied to Isaac about it?

I got a very different understanding of what went on when I read his story.

Sarah is the one that told abraham to get rid of Ishmael and hagar. Thats what i meant by that. I believe he was troubled so he asked god and he told him to do it. Isaac was his seed.
He lied to him and said they were going to sacrifice a goat or something. He was a coward.
Why would it be "memorable" when he was about kill his own child? PLEASE explain that

Are you serious? If one of your kiddos was about to die and you knew it, you would tell him so he could spend the last hours of his life terrified? okay. I would until the end insist that everything was okay. When the lights went out, it would be an instantaneous thing with no fear.
And NO, I would not spend the rest of my days agonizing over being dishonest. It's called protection.

He was about to die because his father was about to MURDER him. Not a very good analogy...

 

[OldLady]

the bible ..smh.....who sends a bear to kill the wee ones for mocking him?

I never heard that one

 

[TNHarley]

the bible ..smh.....who sends a bear to kill the wee ones for mocking him?

I never heard that one

Eliseus?

 

[OldLady]

He had a concubine. Actually two if you count hagar. Although some scholars have said they were the same person.
He married his sister
He was subordinate to his sister wife
Made an illegitimate child and kicked him out
Lied to his son that he was going to kill him
He was obviously mentally ill. With some incest and sins in there.
My point is, how did this crazy person become the patriarch of Judaism, Christianity and Islam?
Apparently, despite all of these moral flaws and repugnant behavior, he was still chosen by god for loyalty. This "moral" God was able to look past all of his sins because he was willing to kill his child? WTF
And people say atheists have no morals? Lol

TN you should read the story in Genesis.
Abraham married his half sister.
I don't know what you mean, was "subordinate to his sister wife."
He had many children by concubines, it says in Genesis. He wanted a legitimate child, but Sarah was barren, so finally, after listening to Abraham bellyache about it for years, she said okay, I'll let you make a baby with my personal servant Hagar and we'll call the child legitimate. It was done, but Sarah became jealous of Hagar and threw a fit, so Abraham had to relocate Hagar and the baby Ishmael. Abraham vowed he would never forget him, and he never did.
That sacrificing Isaac story is one of the most memorable in the Bible. But what you got from it that Abraham lied to Isaac about it?

I got a very different understanding of what went on when I read his story.

Sarah is the one that told abraham to get rid of Ishmael and hagar. Thats what i meant by that. I believe he was troubled so he asked god and he told him to do it. Isaac was his seed.
He lied to him and said they were going to sacrifice a goat or something. He was a coward.
Why would it be "memorable" when he was about kill his own child? PLEASE explain that

Are you serious? If one of your kiddos was about to die and you knew it, you would tell him so he could spend the last hours of his life terrified? okay. I would until the end insist that everything was okay. When the lights went out, it would be an instantaneous thing with no fear.
And NO, I would not spend the rest of my days agonizing over being dishonest. It's called protection.

He was about to die because his father was about to MURDER him. Not a very good analogy...

God was definitely being a shithead that day. There is no more definitive test of a man's loyalty than asking him to sacrifice what is the most precious. It would be easier to sacrifice yourself than your child. Shows Abraham loved God above all else.

This is an important story because it was the end of human sacrifice among the Hebrews.

 

[RodISHI]

He had a concubine. Actually two if you count hagar. Although some scholars have said they were the same person.
He married his sister
He was subordinate to his sister wife
Made an illegitimate child and kicked him out
Lied to his son that he was going to kill him
He was obviously mentally ill. With some incest and sins in there.
My point is, how did this crazy person become the patriarch of Judaism, Christianity and Islam?
Apparently, despite all of these moral flaws and repugnant behavior, he was still chosen by god for loyalty. This "moral" God was able to look past all of his sins because he was willing to kill his child? WTF
And people say atheists have no morals? Lol

TN you should read the story in Genesis.
Abraham married his half sister.
I don't know what you mean, was "subordinate to his sister wife."
He had many children by concubines, it says in Genesis. He wanted a legitimate child, but Sarah was barren, so finally, after listening to Abraham bellyache about it for years, she said okay, I'll let you make a baby with my personal servant Hagar and we'll call the child legitimate. It was done, but Sarah became jealous of Hagar and threw a fit, so Abraham had to relocate Hagar and the baby Ishmael. Abraham vowed he would never forget him, and he never did.
That sacrificing Isaac story is one of the most memorable in the Bible. But what you got from it that Abraham lied to Isaac about it?

I got a very different understanding of what went on when I read his story.

Sarah is the one that told abraham to get rid of Ishmael and hagar. Thats what i meant by that. I believe he was troubled so he asked god and he told him to do it. Isaac was his seed.
He lied to him and said they were going to sacrifice a goat or something. He was a coward.
Why would it be "memorable" when he was about kill his own child? PLEASE explain that

That is a lamb being slaughter and again these are spiritual hosts within one's self. Abraham divides himself (that spiritual being/person within) to overcome the enmity of that breath of God in him-her (whether you are being that is a person that is male or female).

He had a concubine. Actually two if you count hagar. Although some scholars have said they were the same person.
He married his sister
He was subordinate to his sister wife
Made an illegitimate child and kicked him out
Lied to his son that he was going to kill him
He was obviously mentally ill. With some incest and sins in there.
My point is, how did this crazy person become the patriarch of Judaism, Christianity and Islam?
Apparently, despite all of these moral flaws and repugnant behavior, he was still chosen by god for loyalty. This "moral" God was able to look past all of his sins because he was willing to kill his child? WTF
And people say atheists have no morals? Lol

TN you should read the story in Genesis.
Abraham married his half sister.
I don't know what you mean, was "subordinate to his sister wife."
He had many children by concubines, it says in Genesis. He wanted a legitimate child, but Sarah was barren, so finally, after listening to Abraham bellyache about it for years, she said okay, I'll let you make a baby with my personal servant Hagar and we'll call the child legitimate. It was done, but Sarah became jealous of Hagar and threw a fit, so Abraham had to relocate Hagar and the baby Ishmael. Abraham vowed he would never forget him, and he never did.
That sacrificing Isaac story is one of the most memorable in the Bible. But what you got from it that Abraham lied to Isaac about it?

I got a very different understanding of what went on when I read his story.

Sarah is the one that told abraham to get rid of Ishmael and hagar. Thats what i meant by that. I believe he was troubled so he asked god and he told him to do it. Isaac was his seed.
He lied to him and said they were going to sacrifice a goat or something. He was a coward.
Why would it be "memorable" when he was about kill his own child? PLEASE explain that

Are you serious? If one of your kiddos was about to die and you knew it, you would tell him so he could spend the last hours of his life terrified? okay. I would until the end insist that everything was okay. When the lights went out, it would be an instantaneous thing with no fear.
And NO, I would not spend the rest of my days agonizing over being dishonest. It's called protection.

He was about to die because his father was about to MURDER him. Not a very good analogy...

Curious, TN is there any portions of your psyche (the human soul, mind, or spirit) that you would be willing to sacrifice?

 

[Cossack1483]

Negrophiles and kafirs need atheism and agnosticism to pursue the race mixing agenda.

 

[TNHarley]

He had a concubine. Actually two if you count hagar. Although some scholars have said they were the same person.
He married his sister
He was subordinate to his sister wife
Made an illegitimate child and kicked him out
Lied to his son that he was going to kill him
He was obviously mentally ill. With some incest and sins in there.
My point is, how did this crazy person become the patriarch of Judaism, Christianity and Islam?
Apparently, despite all of these moral flaws and repugnant behavior, he was still chosen by god for loyalty. This "moral" God was able to look past all of his sins because he was willing to kill his child? WTF
And people say atheists have no morals? Lol

TN you should read the story in Genesis.
Abraham married his half sister.
I don't know what you mean, was "subordinate to his sister wife."
He had many children by concubines, it says in Genesis. He wanted a legitimate child, but Sarah was barren, so finally, after listening to Abraham bellyache about it for years, she said okay, I'll let you make a baby with my personal servant Hagar and we'll call the child legitimate. It was done, but Sarah became jealous of Hagar and threw a fit, so Abraham had to relocate Hagar and the baby Ishmael. Abraham vowed he would never forget him, and he never did.
That sacrificing Isaac story is one of the most memorable in the Bible. But what you got from it that Abraham lied to Isaac about it?

I got a very different understanding of what went on when I read his story.

Sarah is the one that told abraham to get rid of Ishmael and hagar. Thats what i meant by that. I believe he was troubled so he asked god and he told him to do it. Isaac was his seed.
He lied to him and said they were going to sacrifice a goat or something. He was a coward.
Why would it be "memorable" when he was about kill his own child? PLEASE explain that

That is a lamb being slaughter and again these are spiritual hosts within one's self. Abraham divides himself (that spiritual being/person within) to overcome the enmity of that breath of God in him-her (whether you are being that is a person that is male or female).

He had a concubine. Actually two if you count hagar. Although some scholars have said they were the same person.
He married his sister
He was subordinate to his sister wife
Made an illegitimate child and kicked him out
Lied to his son that he was going to kill him
He was obviously mentally ill. With some incest and sins in there.
My point is, how did this crazy person become the patriarch of Judaism, Christianity and Islam?
Apparently, despite all of these moral flaws and repugnant behavior, he was still chosen by god for loyalty. This "moral" God was able to look past all of his sins because he was willing to kill his child? WTF
And people say atheists have no morals? Lol

TN you should read the story in Genesis.
Abraham married his half sister.
I don't know what you mean, was "subordinate to his sister wife."
He had many children by concubines, it says in Genesis. He wanted a legitimate child, but Sarah was barren, so finally, after listening to Abraham bellyache about it for years, she said okay, I'll let you make a baby with my personal servant Hagar and we'll call the child legitimate. It was done, but Sarah became jealous of Hagar and threw a fit, so Abraham had to relocate Hagar and the baby Ishmael. Abraham vowed he would never forget him, and he never did.
That sacrificing Isaac story is one of the most memorable in the Bible. But what you got from it that Abraham lied to Isaac about it?

I got a very different understanding of what went on when I read his story.

Sarah is the one that told abraham to get rid of Ishmael and hagar. Thats what i meant by that. I believe he was troubled so he asked god and he told him to do it. Isaac was his seed.
He lied to him and said they were going to sacrifice a goat or something. He was a coward.
Why would it be "memorable" when he was about kill his own child? PLEASE explain that

Are you serious? If one of your kiddos was about to die and you knew it, you would tell him so he could spend the last hours of his life terrified? okay. I would until the end insist that everything was okay. When the lights went out, it would be an instantaneous thing with no fear.
And NO, I would not spend the rest of my days agonizing over being dishonest. It's called protection.

He was about to die because his father was about to MURDER him. Not a very good analogy...

Curious, TN is there any portions of your psyche (the human soul, mind, or spirit) that you would be willing to sacrifice?

Not the mind. I know i have one of them. Lol

 

[RodISHI]

Not the mind. I know i have one of them. Lol

Is your mind (thoughts) in your opinion all pure (gold) or are you are ready perfected in that department?

 

[TNHarley]

Not the mind. I know i have one of them. Lol

Is your mind (thoughts) in your opinion all pure (gold) or are you are ready perfected in that department?

My mind pure? Lol.. no

 

[RodISHI]

Not the mind. I know i have one of them. Lol

Is your mind (thoughts) in your opinion all pure (gold) or are you are ready perfected in that department?

My mind pure? Lol.. no

Okay, now if you have parts in there that you know need cleaned and have a desire to clean it up and all the sudden you understand that within your spirit something wonderful was born would you be willing to sacrifice that (give it up to God) knowing that God has a greater calling for your life?

 

[TNHarley]

He had a concubine. Actually two if you count hagar. Although some scholars have said they were the same person.
He married his sister
He was subordinate to his sister wife
Made an illegitimate child and kicked him out
Lied to his son that he was going to kill him
He was obviously mentally ill. With some incest and sins in there.
My point is, how did this crazy person become the patriarch of Judaism, Christianity and Islam?
Apparently, despite all of these moral flaws and repugnant behavior, he was still chosen by god for loyalty. This "moral" God was able to look past all of his sins because he was willing to kill his child? WTF
And people say atheists have no morals? Lol

And David had his best friend killed so he could have his wife.
Everyone in the Bible has some serious flaws.
God is about redemption. What better way to show that than to select examples of God's grace.

BTW - it was not Abrahams sister. She was his niece.

The sources I checked (which seemed to be reputable) all said Sarah was his half sister. It was not "kosher" even then. As Weatherman pointed out, everyone admits Abraham had his sins.

He was VERY sinful. And all he had to do was almost kill his son and everything was OK. Because of LOYALTY.
That shit is CRAZY

 

[TNHarley]

Not the mind. I know i have one of them. Lol

Is your mind (thoughts) in your opinion all pure (gold) or are you are ready perfected in that department?

My mind pure? Lol.. no

Okay, now if you have parts in there that you know need cleaned and have a desire to clean it up and all the sudden you understand that within your spirit something wonderful was born would you be willing to sacrifice that (give it up to God) knowing that God has a greater calling for your life?

I get where you are going with this. It wont work lol

 

[OldLady]

He had a concubine. Actually two if you count hagar. Although some scholars have said they were the same person.
He married his sister
He was subordinate to his sister wife
Made an illegitimate child and kicked him out
Lied to his son that he was going to kill him
He was obviously mentally ill. With some incest and sins in there.
My point is, how did this crazy person become the patriarch of Judaism, Christianity and Islam?
Apparently, despite all of these moral flaws and repugnant behavior, he was still chosen by god for loyalty. This "moral" God was able to look past all of his sins because he was willing to kill his child? WTF
And people say atheists have no morals? Lol

And David had his best friend killed so he could have his wife.
Everyone in the Bible has some serious flaws.
God is about redemption. What better way to show that than to select examples of God's grace.

BTW - it was not Abrahams sister. She was his niece.

The sources I checked (which seemed to be reputable) all said Sarah was his half sister. It was not "kosher" even then. As Weatherman pointed out, everyone admits Abraham had his sins.

He was VERY sinful. And all he had to do was almost kill his son and everything was OK. Because of LOYALTY.
That shit is CRAZY

Hey, you're the one who started this thread, not me. I KNOW it's crazy; all of it, including the echo of it still practiced in Holy Communion every day in churches all over the world. But it gives people hope, TN, and that's not so awful. All of us sin. If our belief system says sinners all go to hell, what's the sense in trying if there's no way to make amends?