ACA: Repeal and Delay?

[flacaltenn]

Why don't you and I and the other 5 rational people start an interest group and discuss this away from all the venom and hijinks and slogans. Seriously -- It's time to ditch the bovine manure.

One thing I've NEVER HEARD and don't understand is why we would EVER be "subsidizing insurance" if the problem is truly working poor and the chronically ill. The idea of pushing folks into high deductible policies as a "fix" for all that is brainless and inhumane.

Seems to ME -- you should be subsidizing DEDUCTIBLES and total OutOfPocket costs when services are DELIVERED instead.

Under THAT paradigm, you allow folks to cover what they can -- even if it's just CATASTROPHIC coverage.. And help them if shit happens. You could even MANDATE minimum coverage if you wanted to (based on income or paycheck to keep them from sandbagging. Make the minimum plan an automatic FICA deduction if you wanted to.

No more govt designed plans that cover EVERYTHING, including stuff you don't need. But provide no help when you NEED medical services with their high deductibles.

Subsidizing insurance premiums that get nibbled and inflated by Insurance carriers is stone stupid. The goal is to CUT the power of the Insurers and their enslavement of medical providers.

Have you ever even HEARD this paradigm discussed? No. I haven't..

I think your idea requires that government administer the program, examining care, doing means verification, and cutting subsidy checks that would arrive ... sometime, leaving providers and pharmacies in the lurch until money comes in, (or failing to provide needed care and meds until the government forwards the money first??).

Insurance companies are set manage health care.

Medicare is also set up to do that.

I think you have to base your proposal off of one of those two models.

Time for the model to change. Patients are NOT the only victims. Doctors and service providers are being tortured with uncertainty on reimbursements. That's why the "rack rate" on drugs and services is a price that hardly ANYONE pays -- except the truly needy.

If you define a LEVEL of OOPocket subsidy that can be SPENT by a consumer with some type of catastrophic policy it can include approx the same "negotiated discounts" that insurance company "management" provides. Those negotiated prices are the REAL prices anyways. Otherwise medical services would be going bankrupt. Having the insurance companies CAPTURE and STRONGARM providers really does not add value.

Let consumers take their dollars right to Walgreens and CVS. Free them from the insurers. I assure you, there would SPECIAL Walmart stores created to handle the long lines. They'd get the message. WITHOUT all the layers of "management"..

You haven't explained what agency would be administering this idea of yours, or how a patient would get the money they need for their meds before walking into the pharmacy - or getting wheeled in for heart surgery.

I'm not in favor of another federal administration branch. We already have two, plus we have insurance companies.

My preference remains Medicare for all, with the VA being more of a specialty service available more broadly, as I don't know why segregating vets makes care any better.

Belgium and others have insurance companies that offer coverage for stuff the state solution doesn't cover. That's fine with me, as it means the state solution doesn't have to pay for everything you could ever want.

If every American had Medicare, we would improve it.

There is no other admin required. How does the insurance company get the Fed subsidy right now? (hell if I know, but they obviously do) .. Think of it this way. Instead of MediCare where the GOVT holds the "main policy" and manages and admins the plan (actually they contract out), and the individual HIRES an outside insurance company to MediGap themselves for the deductibles and OOPocket and drugs. Reverse that. .

Insurance company runs and administers the MAIN plan. Determines when and how and where anyone gets "rolled into surgery". But the Govt subsidy is a supplemental stop loss on the huge deductible. Write it like a a set of MediGap policies based on "need" and primary coverage. PAY IT directly to the prime insurer based on THEIR calculated discounts. Discounts have to be equal or BETTER than "non-subsidized" policies.

All those Medicare Supplementals are actually simple ass policies. There's no magic there. No large contention between "what the govt allows" and what their portion of the bill is. Insurance companies only downside is that they are marginalized from the being the Big Kahunas. All they DO is manage networks and negotiate pricing and process billing. They got money coming in from the insured and the govt. And they STILL GOT the 80% of America who will be free of mandatory minimum coverages and can POOL --- any damn way they want to.

I'll probably drop all this into the CDZone as a debate so that I can get help figuring out WHY this ain't far superior to current nonsense on Capitol Hill. In fact, in terms of MedCaid, it's even MORE attractive. Because the govt ends up paying most actual costs everything ANYWAY. But with a high deductible commercial insurance policy underwriting the MAJOR LOSSES, the States and Feds can concentrate on money for SERVICES without huge admin and mgt costs.

I think you could say that in fewer words and make it clearer what you are thinking by saying who is on each side of the transactions you propose.

It sounds like what you are saying is that the insurance company would bill the government. But, there still has to be an agency on the government side of that transaction. We're not just going to let corporations make withdrawals from the "the government" without keeping track of exactly what is going on.

The States do the actual Medicaid reimbursements. Since covering people in need is SUPPOSEDLY what the initial fuss was about, let them find the "worthy" 8 or 10% uninsured out of the supposed 40Mill and pay them to do that with the SAME resources that handle Medicaid paperwork. Put BACK the choices and flexibility for the 85% who never had an issue. IN FACT -- let the states handle Medicaid by using things like this public/private option idea. Take off the cuffs...

And fix the definition of "pre-existing". There is a LEGIT meaning and the insur. co. warped definition. You cannot excuse folks who COULD pick up insurance,, but simply didn't want to. Got sick and then applied. There should not be any pre-existing IF you've had continuous coverage for 2 or 3 years. And if you do this RIGHT and get to 98% coverage, then by definition, there will BE no more "pre-existing" anything.

 

[Rustic]

I say repeal right away, replace whenever and we will have to read the bill after its passed. That's what the Dems said with Obama care originally.
Fuck Obamacare…

 

[rightwinger]

Identify a national healthcare plan that is better than Obamacare and THEN replace it

 

[deltex1]

We already replaced obama with a better president...keep your frillies on and be patient.

 

[Rustic]

Identify a national healthcare plan that is better than Obamacare and THEN replace it

Why? Obamacare was only voted for by Democrats and no Republicans. Obamacare only helps people that are in favor of it, fucking over those that oppose it... fact

 

[rightwinger]

Identify a national healthcare plan that is better than Obamacare and THEN replace it

Why? Obamacare was only voted for by Democrats and no Republicans. Obamacare only helps people that are in favor of it, fucking over those that oppose it... fact

I can't believe you guys keep making that silly claim

As if Republican refusal to vote for ANYTHING proposed by Obama has merit. Name a single thing that Republicans supported Obama on. You can't
Then you say....what they passed doesn't count because we didn't support it

Republicans voted 100% against a healthcare plan that contained the same provisions they had previously supported

 

[Rustic]

Identify a national healthcare plan that is better than Obamacare and THEN replace it

Why? Obamacare was only voted for by Democrats and no Republicans. Obamacare only helps people that are in favor of it, fucking over those that oppose it... fact

I can't believe you guys keep making that silly claim

As if Republican refusal to vote for ANYTHING proposed by Obama has merit. Name a single thing that Republicans supported Obama on. You can't
Then you say....what they passed doesn't count because we didn't support it

Republicans voted 100% against a healthcare plan that contained the same provisions they had previously supported

Obamacare is bad for conservatives health… Fact

 

[Rustic]

Identify a national healthcare plan that is better than Obamacare and THEN replace it

Why? Obamacare was only voted for by Democrats and no Republicans. Obamacare only helps people that are in favor of it, fucking over those that oppose it... fact

I can't believe you guys keep making that silly claim

As if Republican refusal to vote for ANYTHING proposed by Obama has merit. Name a single thing that Republicans supported Obama on. You can't
Then you say....what they passed doesn't count because we didn't support it

Republicans voted 100% against a healthcare plan that contained the same provisions they had previously supported

Remember this gem... the shoe is on the other foot.

 

[rightwinger]

Identify a national healthcare plan that is better than Obamacare and THEN replace it

Why? Obamacare was only voted for by Democrats and no Republicans. Obamacare only helps people that are in favor of it, fucking over those that oppose it... fact

I can't believe you guys keep making that silly claim

As if Republican refusal to vote for ANYTHING proposed by Obama has merit. Name a single thing that Republicans supported Obama on. You can't
Then you say....what they passed doesn't count because we didn't support it

Republicans voted 100% against a healthcare plan that contained the same provisions they had previously supported

Remember this gem... the shoe is on the other foot.

I do remember that and agree with Pelosi

At the time that statement was made there were TWO healthcare bills. One in the House and one in the Senate. Pelosi was correct in not knowing what the final bill would look like until it had PASSED the reconciliation process

 

[Rustic]

Identify a national healthcare plan that is better than Obamacare and THEN replace it

Why? Obamacare was only voted for by Democrats and no Republicans. Obamacare only helps people that are in favor of it, fucking over those that oppose it... fact

I can't believe you guys keep making that silly claim

As if Republican refusal to vote for ANYTHING proposed by Obama has merit. Name a single thing that Republicans supported Obama on. You can't
Then you say....what they passed doesn't count because we didn't support it

Republicans voted 100% against a healthcare plan that contained the same provisions they had previously supported

Remember this gem... the shoe is on the other foot.

I do remember that and agree with Pelosi

At the time that statement was made there were TWO healthcare bills. One in the House and one in the Senate. Pelosi was correct in not knowing what the final bill would look like until it had PASSED the reconciliation process

Excuses, the repeal of Obamacare is going to help people it is damaged greatly….Fact

 

[AnCap'n_Murica]

Identify a national healthcare plan that is better than Obamacare and THEN replace it

Freedom is a better policy.

 

[AnCap'n_Murica]

I can't believe you guys keep making that silly claim

As if Republican refusal to vote for ANYTHING proposed by Obama has merit. Name a single thing that Republicans supported Obama on. You can't
Then you say....what they passed doesn't count because we didn't support it

Republicans voted 100% against a healthcare plan that contained the same provisions they had previously supported

You mean like all those times they voted against those continuing resolutions, raising the debt ceiling, and getting rid of the sequester?

Oh, wait.

 

[rightwinger]

Identify a national healthcare plan that is better than Obamacare and THEN replace it

Why? Obamacare was only voted for by Democrats and no Republicans. Obamacare only helps people that are in favor of it, fucking over those that oppose it... fact

I can't believe you guys keep making that silly claim

As if Republican refusal to vote for ANYTHING proposed by Obama has merit. Name a single thing that Republicans supported Obama on. You can't
Then you say....what they passed doesn't count because we didn't support it

Republicans voted 100% against a healthcare plan that contained the same provisions they had previously supported

Remember this gem... the shoe is on the other foot.

I do remember that and agree with Pelosi

At the time that statement was made there were TWO healthcare bills. One in the House and one in the Senate. Pelosi was correct in not knowing what the final bill would look like until it had PASSED the reconciliation process

Excuses, the repeal of Obamacare is going to help people it is damaged greatly….Fact

How does dumping people from their health insurance help them?

 

[rightwinger]

Identify a national healthcare plan that is better than Obamacare and THEN replace it

Freedom is a better policy.

Freedoms just another word for nothing left to lose

 

[AnCap'n_Murica]

Freedoms just another word for nothing left to lose

Wow, how deep. You think that one up all by yourself?

 

[rightwinger]

Freedoms just another word for nothing left to lose

Wow, how deep. You think that one up all by yourself?

It was thought up by me and Bobby McGee

 

[Siete]

The Congressional Budget Office’s conclusion today that sacking Obamacare would swell the budget deficit by as much as $353 billion wasn’t at all what Republicans were expecting.

Using so-called dynamic scoring, which attempts to account for the economic effects of policy changes, a repeal would still hit the deficit, although by less — about $137 billion, CBO said.

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

The Congressional Budget Office’s conclusion today that sacking Obamacare would swell the budget deficit by as much as $353 billion wasn’t at all what Republicans were expecting.

Using so-called dynamic scoring, which attempts to account for the economic effects of policy changes, a repeal would still hit the deficit, although by less — about $137 billion, CBO said.

Only because they wrote the penalties in as revenue.

 

[Siete]

The Congressional Budget Office’s conclusion today that sacking Obamacare would swell the budget deficit by as much as $353 billion wasn’t at all what Republicans were expecting.

Using so-called dynamic scoring, which attempts to account for the economic effects of policy changes, a repeal would still hit the deficit, although by less — about $137 billion, CBO said.

Only because they wrote the penalties in as revenue.

only because RW's don't give a fuck about adding billions to the deficit if Trump does it .. otherwise we're broke as hell.

 

[Rustic]

Why? Obamacare was only voted for by Democrats and no Republicans. Obamacare only helps people that are in favor of it, fucking over those that oppose it... fact

I can't believe you guys keep making that silly claim

As if Republican refusal to vote for ANYTHING proposed by Obama has merit. Name a single thing that Republicans supported Obama on. You can't
Then you say....what they passed doesn't count because we didn't support it

Republicans voted 100% against a healthcare plan that contained the same provisions they had previously supported

Remember this gem... the shoe is on the other foot.

I do remember that and agree with Pelosi

At the time that statement was made there were TWO healthcare bills. One in the House and one in the Senate. Pelosi was correct in not knowing what the final bill would look like until it had PASSED the reconciliation process

Excuses, the repeal of Obamacare is going to help people it is damaged greatly….Fact

How does dumping people from their health insurance help them?

Why force people to health insurance? That they will never use and want nothing to do with...