Affordable care that isn’t affordable

[Arianrhod]

And their customers aren't allowed to turn then away.

Huh?

You have no fucking idea what situations I've faced.

That's true. But most people who've dealt with difficult situations tend to have some compassion for others in the same situation.

That's the implied accusation that makes me want to just tell you to fuck off and die. You're trying to pretend that people who don't want to resort to coercive state welfare don't have compassion.

Summing up: You don't want insurers to make any profit, but you don't want any government involvement in making sure people can afford to pay for their healthcare. So you, at least, are back at Square One.

Summing up, you're full of shit. I have no problem with legitimate profits, earned in a free market. I'm opposed to wealthy interests using government to ensure their dominance.

You've been here for almost five years. I'm sure you must have raised the issue of cross-state purchasing of health insurance somewhere. Post a link?

 

[dblack]

And their customers aren't allowed to turn then away.

Huh?

You have no fucking idea what situations I've faced.

That's true. But most people who've dealt with difficult situations tend to have some compassion for others in the same situation.

That's the implied accusation that makes me want to just tell you to fuck off and die. You're trying to pretend that people who don't want to resort to coercive state welfare don't have compassion.

Summing up: You don't want insurers to make any profit, but you don't want any government involvement in making sure people can afford to pay for their healthcare. So you, at least, are back at Square One.

Summing up, you're full of shit. I have no problem with legitimate profits, earned in a free market. I'm opposed to wealthy interests using government to ensure their dominance.

You've been here for almost five years. I'm sure you must have raised the issue of cross-state purchasing of health insurance somewhere. Post a link?

Fuck you. Find one single post where you're anything other than a fluffer for the insurance lobby.

 

[Arianrhod]

Huh?

That's true. But most people who've dealt with difficult situations tend to have some compassion for others in the same situation.

That's the implied accusation that makes me want to just tell you to fuck off and die. You're trying to pretend that people who don't want to resort to coercive state welfare don't have compassion.

Summing up: You don't want insurers to make any profit, but you don't want any government involvement in making sure people can afford to pay for their healthcare. So you, at least, are back at Square One.

Summing up, you're full of shit. I have no problem with legitimate profits, earned in a free market. I'm opposed to wealthy interests using government to ensure their dominance.

You've been here for almost five years. I'm sure you must have raised the issue of cross-state purchasing of health insurance somewhere. Post a link?

Fuck you. Find one single post where you're anything other than a fluffer for the insurance lobby.

 

[longknife]

Another thread degenerated into childish name-calling.

 

[Arianrhod]

Another thread degenerated into childish name-calling.

Tell me how you'd discuss any topic with someone whose premise is "I don't trust primary sources; they're nothing but propaganda"?

 

[Sun Devil 92]

And their customers aren't allowed to turn then away.

Huh?

You have no fucking idea what situations I've faced.

That's true. But most people who've dealt with difficult situations tend to have some compassion for others in the same situation.

That's the implied accusation that makes me want to just tell you to fuck off and die. You're trying to pretend that people who don't want to resort to coercive state welfare don't have compassion.

Summing up: You don't want insurers to make any profit, but you don't want any government involvement in making sure people can afford to pay for their healthcare. So you, at least, are back at Square One.

Summing up, you're full of shit. I have no problem with legitimate profits, earned in a free market. I'm opposed to wealthy interests using government to ensure their dominance.

Thanks.

Sums it up nicely.

It would be funny if it were not so sad. The left has no clue about what you are saying.

 

[Sun Devil 92]

How many are paying their premiums? As many as want to have insurance. That should be obvious.

We're all paying for it, one way or another. The question is, who is profiting from it?

How many times will you ask the same question, get the same answer, and then ask the question again?

Obviously the insurers will continue to make a profit - as they have since the 1980s - unless and until the U.S. has single payer.

Now, ask it again.

You're still singing the 'single-payer blues'?

Not blues, unless you mean BC/BS, the original not-for-profit insurers. Wouldn't mind taking the toys away from all the others and letting the Blues do their thing again.

But you can't seem to decide whether you want the for-profit middlemen to keep making profits or not. Let me know when you settle on something.

You have reading comprehension issues. I think the insurance industry is a corporatist fraud. They've learned to secure profits by manipulating government policy. ACA is their most dubious achievement.

Amen and Amen.

You can't tell where industry ends and government begins.

 

[Arianrhod]

We're all paying for it, one way or another. The question is, who is profiting from it?

How many times will you ask the same question, get the same answer, and then ask the question again?

Obviously the insurers will continue to make a profit - as they have since the 1980s - unless and until the U.S. has single payer.

Now, ask it again.

You're still singing the 'single-payer blues'?

Not blues, unless you mean BC/BS, the original not-for-profit insurers. Wouldn't mind taking the toys away from all the others and letting the Blues do their thing again.

But you can't seem to decide whether you want the for-profit middlemen to keep making profits or not. Let me know when you settle on something.

You have reading comprehension issues. I think the insurance industry is a corporatist fraud. They've learned to secure profits by manipulating government policy. ACA is their most dubious achievement.

Amen and Amen.

You can't tell where industry ends and government begins.

Certainly true vis-a-vis certain industries.

So did the legislation allowing certain insurers to have a monopoly in certain states occur before or after all those government subsidies to Big Oil? Hmm...

 

[Sun Devil 92]

How many times will you ask the same question, get the same answer, and then ask the question again?

Obviously the insurers will continue to make a profit - as they have since the 1980s - unless and until the U.S. has single payer.

Now, ask it again.

You're still singing the 'single-payer blues'?

Not blues, unless you mean BC/BS, the original not-for-profit insurers. Wouldn't mind taking the toys away from all the others and letting the Blues do their thing again.

But you can't seem to decide whether you want the for-profit middlemen to keep making profits or not. Let me know when you settle on something.

You have reading comprehension issues. I think the insurance industry is a corporatist fraud. They've learned to secure profits by manipulating government policy. ACA is their most dubious achievement.

Amen and Amen.

You can't tell where industry ends and government begins.

Certainly true vis-a-vis certain industries.

So did the legislation allowing certain insurers to have a monopoly in certain states occur before or after all those government subsidies to Big Oil? Hmm...

I am not sure what this statement is actually saying.

 

[Arianrhod]

You're still singing the 'single-payer blues'?

Not blues, unless you mean BC/BS, the original not-for-profit insurers. Wouldn't mind taking the toys away from all the others and letting the Blues do their thing again.

But you can't seem to decide whether you want the for-profit middlemen to keep making profits or not. Let me know when you settle on something.

You have reading comprehension issues. I think the insurance industry is a corporatist fraud. They've learned to secure profits by manipulating government policy. ACA is their most dubious achievement.

Amen and Amen.

You can't tell where industry ends and government begins.

Certainly true vis-a-vis certain industries.

So did the legislation allowing certain insurers to have a monopoly in certain states occur before or after all those government subsidies to Big Oil? Hmm...

I am not sure what this statement is actually saying.

It goes to what you said about government and industry:

(1) It's illegal to buy health insurance across state lines, has been for decades
(2) The oil industry gets subsidies and tax breaks from the Fed, has done for decades

 

[Sun Devil 92]

Not blues, unless you mean BC/BS, the original not-for-profit insurers. Wouldn't mind taking the toys away from all the others and letting the Blues do their thing again.

But you can't seem to decide whether you want the for-profit middlemen to keep making profits or not. Let me know when you settle on something.

You have reading comprehension issues. I think the insurance industry is a corporatist fraud. They've learned to secure profits by manipulating government policy. ACA is their most dubious achievement.

Amen and Amen.

You can't tell where industry ends and government begins.

Certainly true vis-a-vis certain industries.

So did the legislation allowing certain insurers to have a monopoly in certain states occur before or after all those government subsidies to Big Oil? Hmm...

I am not sure what this statement is actually saying.

It goes to what you said about government and industry:

(1) It's illegal to buy health insurance across state lines, has been for decades
(2) The oil industry gets subsidies and tax breaks from the Fed, has done for decades

O.K.

And it goes well beyond that.

Big business helps write regulations to keep the competition out.

 

[Arianrhod]

You have reading comprehension issues. I think the insurance industry is a corporatist fraud. They've learned to secure profits by manipulating government policy. ACA is their most dubious achievement.

Amen and Amen.

You can't tell where industry ends and government begins.

Certainly true vis-a-vis certain industries.

So did the legislation allowing certain insurers to have a monopoly in certain states occur before or after all those government subsidies to Big Oil? Hmm...

I am not sure what this statement is actually saying.

It goes to what you said about government and industry:

(1) It's illegal to buy health insurance across state lines, has been for decades
(2) The oil industry gets subsidies and tax breaks from the Fed, has done for decades

O.K.

And it goes well beyond that.

Big business helps write regulations to keep the competition out.

Absolutely.

 

[dblack]

You have reading comprehension issues. I think the insurance industry is a corporatist fraud. They've learned to secure profits by manipulating government policy. ACA is their most dubious achievement.

Amen and Amen.

You can't tell where industry ends and government begins.

Certainly true vis-a-vis certain industries.

So did the legislation allowing certain insurers to have a monopoly in certain states occur before or after all those government subsidies to Big Oil? Hmm...

I am not sure what this statement is actually saying.

It goes to what you said about government and industry:

(1) It's illegal to buy health insurance across state lines, has been for decades
(2) The oil industry gets subsidies and tax breaks from the Fed, has done for decades

O.K.

And it goes well beyond that.

Big business helps write regulations to keep the competition out.

ACA takes the cake on that one. I believe it will be remembered as one of the biggest corporate swindles in U.S. history.

 

[Arianrhod]

Amen and Amen.

You can't tell where industry ends and government begins.

Certainly true vis-a-vis certain industries.

So did the legislation allowing certain insurers to have a monopoly in certain states occur before or after all those government subsidies to Big Oil? Hmm...

I am not sure what this statement is actually saying.

It goes to what you said about government and industry:

(1) It's illegal to buy health insurance across state lines, has been for decades
(2) The oil industry gets subsidies and tax breaks from the Fed, has done for decades

O.K.

And it goes well beyond that.

Big business helps write regulations to keep the competition out.

ACA takes the cake on that one. I believe it will be remembered as one of the biggest corporate swindles in U.S. history.

Bigger than the billions in oil company tax breaks?

What about the confluence of government and Big Tobacco?

Or, to stay within the realm of healthcare, what about Big Pharma?

 

[dblack]

Certainly true vis-a-vis certain industries.

So did the legislation allowing certain insurers to have a monopoly in certain states occur before or after all those government subsidies to Big Oil? Hmm...

I am not sure what this statement is actually saying.

It goes to what you said about government and industry:

(1) It's illegal to buy health insurance across state lines, has been for decades
(2) The oil industry gets subsidies and tax breaks from the Fed, has done for decades

O.K.

And it goes well beyond that.

Big business helps write regulations to keep the competition out.

ACA takes the cake on that one. I believe it will be remembered as one of the biggest corporate swindles in U.S. history.

Bigger than the billions in oil company tax breaks?

What about the confluence of government and Big Tobacco?

Or, to stay within the realm of healthcare, what about Big Pharma?

Ultimately, I think it will be bigger than all of those put together. The insurance industry has essentially installed itself as a federally sponsored, public utility - with quite private profits.

 

[Arianrhod]

I am not sure what this statement is actually saying.

It goes to what you said about government and industry:

(1) It's illegal to buy health insurance across state lines, has been for decades
(2) The oil industry gets subsidies and tax breaks from the Fed, has done for decades

O.K.

And it goes well beyond that.

Big business helps write regulations to keep the competition out.

ACA takes the cake on that one. I believe it will be remembered as one of the biggest corporate swindles in U.S. history.

Bigger than the billions in oil company tax breaks?

What about the confluence of government and Big Tobacco?

Or, to stay within the realm of healthcare, what about Big Pharma?

Ultimately, I think it will be bigger than all of those put together. The insurance industry has essentially installed itself as a federally sponsored, public utility - with quite private profits.

Nothing private about the stock exchange.

 

[dblack]

It goes to what you said about government and industry:

(1) It's illegal to buy health insurance across state lines, has been for decades
(2) The oil industry gets subsidies and tax breaks from the Fed, has done for decades

O.K.

And it goes well beyond that.

Big business helps write regulations to keep the competition out.

ACA takes the cake on that one. I believe it will be remembered as one of the biggest corporate swindles in U.S. history.

Bigger than the billions in oil company tax breaks?

What about the confluence of government and Big Tobacco?

Or, to stay within the realm of healthcare, what about Big Pharma?

Ultimately, I think it will be bigger than all of those put together. The insurance industry has essentially installed itself as a federally sponsored, public utility - with quite private profits.

Nothing private about the stock exchange.

uh....

 

[emilynghiem]

Dear Arianrhod
In general, regardless of arguments for or against the costs going up or down or they would have anyway,
half the nation does not agree to authorize federal govt to manage health care to the point
of issuing insurance mandates and penalties. Catastrophic insurance is one thing, and could
be legislated on a STATE level.

NOBODY I KNOW agrees to pay for the ACA bill as is
* my Singlepayer and Universal Care friends all want the corporate insurance OUT
* my Constitutional and free market friends do NOT want Federal Govt regulating or penalizing this
* no one I know wants trillions of our taxdollars paying corporate insurance companies
while we can't afford premiums because we aren't getting tax breaks as large interests are.

So REGARDLESS what is going on with costs,
the PREMISE of the legislation was ALWAYS off base and has remain contested because of it.

How I explain it to people who MEAN WELL, even my own family who want govt to take care
of health care for those who can't afford it,
Compare this to Christianity and church charity that helps the poor.
We'd all like more of the poor to be helped.

But we DON'T mandate, legislate or regulate Christian charity through FEDERAL GOVT.
That is the job of the churches and nonprofits to manage directly NOT through GOVT.

So this is what objectors are saying about Health Care.
It should be handled by programs better equipped and designed to accommodate local needs
so there are no resources wasted and we don't waste so much time FIGHTING politically
because our BELIEFS do not AGREE on this issue.

That is NOT going to change!

I'm sorry to tell you Arianrhod but no amount of proof or help or reduction and lives saved
is going to change people's minds that this is UNCONSTITUTIONAL who believe it should be
done outside of federal govt.

You are like trying to argue that if Christianity can be proven to save lives,
end mental illness, drug abuse and addiction, save millions if not billions of dollars
currently wasted on failed prison and mental health systems,
then it's "okay" to mandate, require and regulate Christian practices through govt
that "help people."

It is still NOT the place of govt to do that.
No matter how good a solution it is, how many lives are saved,
Christianity must remain a free choice.
and that's what people are saying about health care.
it's not the place of federal govt, regardless of the good achieved.

 

[Arianrhod]

^Thank you for a thoughtful post, but health insurance is not "health care." So much of the rest of your post rests on that misconception that it's difficult to address it if we can't establish that much.

 

[Maryland Patriot]

Despite the president’s promises, health care costs are going up


Medicaid spending is up 23%!!! so far in 2015. And tens of thousands are facing the IRS over the program.


My personal feelings are that a whole lot of American voters who supported Obama and his Democrat toadies are going to be very sorry for doing so. And, they won't forget when 2016 comes.


Read story @ STEPHEN MOORE Affordable Care Act isn t affordable - Washington Times


More Obamacare victims noticing that they’re gonna be on the hook to the IRS. @ More Obamacare victims noticing that they re gonna be on the hook to the IRS. RedState

Post something factual, not Right Wing Talking Points R Us.

What is not factual ?

I think these statements can easily be proved or disproved.

I take issue with equating spending to costs.

We can spend more, but be getting more value for the dollar.

Obamacare was supposed to help cost (like lower the cost of a procedure).

Obamacare can do nothing (and could not be expected to do anything) if 3 times as many people show up needing the procedure (that is spending).

But if a consumer used to pay a small amount toward insurance to cover the cost should HE need the procedure, thats value. If he is now paying 3 times as much to cover the procedure for others, thats cost.
the individual is paying more for less.