Afterlife….How About For You?

[Meriweather]

In no sane world would anyone say that is anything but delusion

That statement jumps us far off topic. We began with a philosophy that humans are composed of body, mind, and spirit. Body and mind are reckoned through things that are physical. Spirit is much more philosophical, yet most demonstrated that the mind presents us, the person, with options. Does the mind choose the option? If so, why did the mind present more than one option? Do you believe the mind is merely an organ that argues with itself until one portion of that organ overpowers or outlasts the portions presenting other various options? In death, do you believe the mind is at peace, no longer arguing with itself? Is that your philosophy--you haven't said.

My philosophy is that it is one's spirit that selects from the choices the mind presents. While body and mind die and return to dust, the spirit lives on and exists in a spiritual dimension, but a physical one.

How your unicorns fit into the human make-up is beyond me. Are you proposing that mankind is made up of body, mind, and unicorn? I've never heard of such a philosophy, and I have no idea where you are going with it.

 

[Blues Man]

I have never seen the big bang be called fact.

It is the best theory we have based on our observations.

But then consider the fact that we have only observed about 5% of the matter and energy that comprises the universe you have to admit that the big bang even if it is the theory that best reflects our observations is not adequate.

Unlike some, I see no need to attribute the origins of the universe to a god simply because we as human beings may be incapable of every understanding the process.

You are right big bang is a theory, but a weak one. Even the scientists who believe it don't put much stock in it because it violates the laws of physics and the evidence of the CMB does not follow.

The best theory would be that there was a beginning and a cause. The Kalam Cosmological Argument. However, the atheist scientists claim the supernatural does not exist in nature, but this isn't true. We see and interact with God's breath practically every day. While there is no evidence for abiogenesis. Before that, abiogenesis was called spontaneous generation, but it was disproved.

Even the dark energy and dark matter are newer hypothesis to follow no God. It's biased science and that's why evolution and evolutionary thinking and history are false. I've compared both evoution and creation.

Anyway, you are entitled to your opinion in the last sentence. Thus, the empirical proof you want comes after death.

Just as it is your hope there is an afterlife.

I know there is an afterlife, but only have evidence such as Earth, the universe, and everything in it is here and we have life or life spirit as God's breath to present to non-believers. Once life spirit is gone, then it is gone and can't return to this life. I suspect it gets the life spirit gets taken away very rapidly and goes to Hades or the place of the dead where most people end up sleeping waiting for the end times. I think a few of the bad ones start suffering even in Hades.

And I could tell you I know there are blue unicorns with red horns and wings but that doesn't make it so does it?

 

[Blues Man]

In no sane world would anyone say that is anything but delusion

That statement jumps us far off topic. We began with a philosophy that humans are composed of body, mind, and spirit. Body and mind are reckoned through things that are physical. Spirit is much more philosophical, yet most demonstrated that the mind presents us, the person, with options. Does the mind choose the option? If so, why did the mind present more than one option? Do you believe the mind is merely an organ that argues with itself until one portion of that organ overpowers or outlasts the portions presenting other various options? In death, do you believe the mind is at peace, no longer arguing with itself? Is that your philosophy--you haven't said.

My philosophy is that it is one's spirit that selects from the choices the mind presents. While body and mind die and return to dust, the spirit lives on and exists in a spiritual dimension, but a physical one.

How your unicorns fit into the human make-up is beyond me. Are you proposing that mankind is made up of body, mind, and unicorn? I've never heard of such a philosophy, and I have no idea where you are going with it.

I never mentioned spirit.

But since I must explain.

In my belief system you expecting some eternal afterlife is no different than expecting a visit from a blue unicorn.

 

[Meriweather]

In my belief system you expecting some eternal afterlife is no different than expecting a visit from a blue unicorn.

That is not a belief system or even a philosophy. The word to describe it is 'uninformed'. I would be as lost should an Advanced Chemical Engineer summarize what he was doing, using physics and calculus. I don't have the background to follow such a thing, and I would have to study first.

 

[Blues Man]

In my belief system you expecting some eternal afterlife is no different than expecting a visit from a blue unicorn.

That is not a belief system or even a philosophy. The word to describe it is 'uninformed'. I would be as lost should an Advanced Chemical Engineer summarize what he was doing, using physics and calculus. I don't have the background to follow such a thing, and I would have to study first.

Of course it is a belief system.

I believe there is just this one life just this one time and after that there is nothing.

Sure my body or in my case my ashes will be recycled into the earth but the things that made me the person I am will no longer exist anywhere.

 

[Meriweather]

Of course it is a belief system.

I believe there is just this one life just this one time and after that there is nothing.

Sure my body or in my case my ashes will be recycled into the earth but the things that made me the person I am will no longer exist anywhere.

I agree what you just stated is a belief system. Notice you did not have to mention unicorns to state or describe your beliefs. I am simply pointing out my belief system has nothing to do with unicorns either; it has to do with eternal spirits and how I look at humans in their entirety.

 

[james bond]

Of course it is a belief system.

I believe there is just this one life just this one time and after that there is nothing.

Sure my body or in my case my ashes will be recycled into the earth but the things that made me the person I am will no longer exist anywhere.

Kudos. I think this is a mature attitude on your part and your beliefs. My thinking is people are going believe what they want to believe and they should have a right to express them. It is their worldview that they probably developed from the time when they were a child.

Where I got tired was responding to atheists who want proof when we tell them that there is no proof like it will change their thinking. No evidence will be good enough until after death. I found the smarter atheists now state things by prefacing their want of proof by saying things such as, "Change my mind..." or "Make me believe..." and they present some kind of loaded question. May as well just let them be.

 

[harmonica]

..someone please tell us what the after life will be like ---of course it will just be make believe and made up....it will be what they THINK it will be....

And you can prove that?

So you dropped by to post "is not, issssss nootttttttt!!!"?????

I believe I covered your view early in the OP.

what???!!! prove what???

I sense your pain and hurt. I pray one day you can let it go and move on.

..how christian of you---hahahahhahahahahahhaha

 

[james bond]

I sense your pain and hurt. I pray one day you can let it go and move on.

I used to think that pain and suffering was the only way to convince atheists about God in the afterlife. Prior to that, the best thing an atheist ever said was that every atheist past, present, and future had to be convinced of God. Thus, it had to be settled in the afterlife. However, in 2019 I learned it was covered by God already in the Bible with "every eye will see" prophecy. It meant everything would be settled on Earth.

 

[HenryBHough]

Life is but a fart in the wind.
Howsumever the memory of some of the departed is like that same fart but in an unvented elevator stuck between floors.
Remember Jake?

 

[ding]

I don't capitalize the word god because there have been many many gods created by human beings.

I don't capitalize william for the same reason. Too many williams created by human beings.

The name of the Christian god is not God.

I'll capitalize

Assuming, of course, that you’re not a government school nihilist…y'know, and believe human beings are nothing but accidental constructions of mud and dust.

For those of us who believe otherwise.....

1.We learned about reward and punishment early on, perhaps via this catechism:

He's making a list
He's checking it twice
Gonna find out who's naughty and nice
Santa Claus is coming to town
Santa Claus is coming to town
Santa Claus is coming to town

He sees when you are sleeping
He knows when you're awake
He knows if you been good or bad
So be good for goodness sake

2. At some point later in life it became a more serious question, whether there is something after we shuffle off this mortal coil, and might give some of us pause. Of course, not those victims of government school indoctrination, which does everything possible to marginalize, ridicule, erase, any links to religious traditions. For those folks, it’s government we must worship, and the best part is that the great god government is there to reward all no matter if they’re good or bad. Kind of removes that burden of responsibility.



3. But…”Christian beliefs about life after death are based on the resurrection of Jesus Christ. Christians believe that Jesus’ death and resurrection are part of God’s divine plan for humankind. Through his death on the cross, Jesus pays the penalty for mankind's sin and mankind's relationship with God is restored. This is called atonement. Christians believe that three days after the crucifixion, God raised Jesus from the dead and he once again appeared to his disciples. This is taken to mean that Jesus’ sacrifice was a victory over sin and death. Although physical death still happens, those who believe in Christ and live good lives will be given eternal life in Heaven.” https://www.bbc.co.uk/bitesize/guides/zn6ncdm/revision/3.

And if you read Dante, you have a darn good picture of the damage you will face, depending on how bad you are. Although there was a bar called ‘The Ninth Circle,” in the Village, that was pretty OK……

I always gravitated to the view of the Argentine poet, Jorge Louis Borges: "I have always imagined that paradise will be a kind of library"



4. The Old Testament appears to be clear, if subtle, on the issue of an afterlife.

In telling Abraham, the first Jewish person, of his future, there is this:

15.15 As for you, You shall go to your fathers

“Often, in describing death, the Torah and the rest of the Hebrew Bible use the phrase “gathered to one’s kin.” Here, the Torah describes Abram’s eventual death as Abram going “to your fathers.” For reasons I will explain at length, the Torah never directly declares there is an afterlife. But throughout the Torah, an afterlife is clearly implied. Sarna notes, “In whatever form, the phrase certainly originates from the belief in an afterlife in which one is reunited with one’s ancestors irrespective of where they are buried.” Dennis Prager, “Genesis”



Make you feel better?

Why would it?

DEad is dead there is nothing after

So you best make the most of each and everyday you wake up ans draw breath

"Pascal's wager is an argument in philosophy presented by the seventeenth-century French philosopher, mathematician and physicist, Blaise Pascal (1623–1662).[1] It posits that humans bet with their lives that God either exists or does not.

Pascal argues that a rational person should live as though God exists and seek to believe in God. If God does not actually exist, such a person will have only a finite loss (some pleasures, luxury, etc.), whereas he stands to receive infinite gains (as represented by eternity in Heaven) and avoid infinite losses (eternity in Hell)."

Pascal's wager - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

if a god was really omniscient wouldn't he know if a person is only pretending?

You just admitted that you think god can be duped by mere mortals

The two gifts accorded mankind are free will and intelligence.


God didn't create robots.


In Genesis, we have an occasion where God loses an argument to one of his creations....

I refer to Prager's book, "Genesis."


"GOD IS MORALLY CHALLENGED—A FIRST IN HUMAN HISTORY

18.24 What if there should be fifty innocent within the city; will You then wipe out the place and not forgive it for the sake of the innocent fifty who are in it? Abraham argues for sparing the entire city of Sodom if fifty innocent people live there.

18.25 Far be it from You to do such a thing, to bring death upon the innocent as well as the guilty, so that innocent and guilty fare alike. Far be it from You! Abraham not only argues with God, he declares God wrong—“Far be it from You”—if God should kill the innocent along with the guilty. The Hebrew words chalila l’cha may also be translated, “Don’t you dare do such a thing . . .” It is astonishing that anyone would feel he could speak to a deity in this way. Such a statement is unique among all bibles and perhaps all holy literature. But it is the essence of the Torah and of later Judaism that humans may have so real a relationship with God that we can actually speak this way to Him. This negotiation between Abraham and God led Harvard law professor Alan Dershowitz to title his book on Abraham and the history of Jewish lawyers Abra- ham: The World’s First (But Certainly Not Last) Jewish Lawyer.

18.25 (cont.) Shall not the Judge of all the earth deal justly?”

Abraham was arguing a principle made famous thousands of years later by the English jurist William Blackstone. Known as “Blackstone’s Formulation” and still adhered to today in Western legal thought, it postulated “It is better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer.”4 What is as incredible as Abraham’s arguing with God is his assumption that God is just. It is incredible because we know of no other people at that time or be- fore who made such an assumption about their god(s). This assumption changed history. Never had a human being challenged a god or gods on moral grounds. This is one of many reasons the Torah is as different from pre-Torah thought as life is from non-life, and it is therefore one of the many reasons the Torah—like the emergence of life from non-life—can best be explained by attributing it to God.

Equally amazing, God was in no way upset with Abraham for arguing with Him, or even for the manner (verse 25) in which Abraham spoke to Him. God responded to Abraham’s moral argument by agreeing with him.



He prefaced his next request with a statement of humility.

18.28 What if the fifty innocent should lack five? Will You destroy the whole city for want of the five?” As a bargaining technique, Abraham did not say “forty-five.” He wanted to empha- size the number “five” hoping a compassionate God would not destroy an entire city because just five fewer good people resided there.

18.28 (cont.) And He answered, “I will not destroy if I find forty-five there.”

18.29 But he spoke to Him again, and said, “What if forty should be found there?” And He answered, “I will not do it, for the sake of the forty.” Abraham kept lowering the number of innocent people. And God kept agreeing.

18.30 And he said, “Let not my Lord be angry if I go on: What if thirty should be

found there?” And He answered, “I will not do it if I find thirty there.”

18.31 And he said, “I venture again to speak to my Lord: What if twenty should be found there?” And He answered, “I will not destroy, for the sake of the twenty.”



18.32 And he said, “Let not my Lord be angry if I speak out this last time: What if ten should be found there?” And He answered, “I will not destroy, for the sake of the ten.”

Nevertheless, a small group, as Abraham’s appeal suggests, can make a moral impact. In fact, most of the good that has ever even achieved has been initiated by small groups. Examples include the extraordinary group of founders of America, the handful of Christians who brought about the abolition of slavery, the dissidents in the Soviet Union and other tyrannies who helped bring down evil regimes, and the moral impact of the tiny group of people known as Jews.

In addition to a preoccupation with justice, Abraham demonstrated a concern for humanity in general (starting with the extraordinary hospitality he exhibited at the chapter’s opening). The people of Sodom are not his family, his people, his ethnicity, or his religion, yet their fate weighed on him."


God, in fact, appears to appreciate his creation exhibiting this sort of behavior and initiative.

So your god would congratulate an atheist for pretending to believe in him and then reward said atheist with eternal life in heaven ?

He kind of sounds like an idiot to me if he is so easily fooled

My 'God' is capitalized.

Didn't you learn that in government school?


Bet you can't quote where I said "god would congratulate an atheist for pretending to believe in him and then reward said atheist with eternal life in heaven."

Either you aren't the swiftest of students, or you believe that lying is a valid manner of advancing your argument.
Which is it?


To correct you, I've said that there is a determination for reward and punishment in an afterlife.

I don't capitalize the word god because there have been many many gods created by human beings.

So tell me why are you using Pascal's wager for an argument if the god you believe in can see right through it?

if you really believe that your god is omniscient wouldn't you be telling people that those who would make Pascal's wager are doomed because their ruse would be immediately discovered by a god that knows all?

Or do you really believe people should lie about believing in a god?

"I don't capitalize the word god because there have been many many gods created by human beings."

You know very well you're lying.....and that's the answer to my earlier question....you believe lying is acceptable.

The reason you don't capitalize the term is to show the sort of disrespect for the concept, and you've been trained to do.

I am not lying.

Humans have worshiped many gods.

The one you worship is just one in a very long list of gods.

And I told you why I don't capitalize the word god. It has nothing to do with your beliefs.

And FYI my mother was extremely religious so no one taught me not to capitalize the word god. I decided to do that of my own free will

There is only one God, it is the Judeo-Christian one that served as a foundation for the folks who created this nation.

You really didn't learn anything in that government school, did you.



Out of pity, I'll provide this:

The reason our revolution was so different from the violent, homicidal chaos of the French version was the dominant American culture was Anglo-Saxon and Christian. “52 of the 56 signers of the declaration and 50 to 52 of the 55 signers of the Constitution were orthodox Trinitarian Christians.” http://www.davidlimbaugh.com/mt/archives/2010/02/new_column_libe_4.html

No religion should be taught in public schools

And YOU say there is only one god and you are hardly a credible source

I for one have seen no proof that any gods exist

One is being taught now, you fool: militant secularism, neo-Marxism.

The only religion banned is that of our Founders.



1. "Third-Grade Teacher Has Students Write ‘Get Well’ Cards To Cop Killer Mumia Abu-Jamal A third-grade teacher at a public school in New Jersey is under fire after she encouraged her students to write letters to notorious convicted cop killer Mumia Abu-Jamal, who recently fell ill in prison.

Marylin Zuniga teaches language arts and social studies at Forest Street School in Orange, N.J."

Third-Grade Teacher Has Students Write ‘Get Well’ Cards To Cop Killer Mumia Abu-Jamal



2. - School's Nation of Islam Handout Paints Founding Fathers as Racists


"School's Nation of Islam Handout Paints Founding Fathers as Racists
The teacher also told Sommer that her son was not supposed to take the Nation of Islam handout home. It was supposed to stay in the classroom. That bit of news caused her great alarm.
“The fact that students were cautioned against allowing their parents to see anything is deeply troubling,” West told me. “The only reasonable explanation is they don’t want parents to know what it is their children are learning.”

3. Under pressure from transgender activists, progressive politicians, teacher unions, and the education establishment, and despite parents’ opposition, America’s public schools are capitulating to ideologues and implementing the radical transgender agenda with full force.
...regardless of biological sex, .... Activists want every child, from kindergarten on, to learn that “sex” is something “assigned at birth” rather than a biological reality. They want children to think that individuals get to choose their own “gender identity” (not limited to male or female), and that everyone else must affirm that “gender identity” as true.


...nothing that parents (or teachers) can do to prevent the schools from imposing policies designed to indoctrinate children with gender ideology.

In public education, the “deep state” describes a coalition of various groups – including teachers’ unions, progressive advocacy groups, major corporations, and philanthropists --that work together to promote the progressive worldview..."
America’s Public Education System: The Ultimate Deep State





4. The National Education Association approved a new "business item" expressing support for abortion access during its annual conference in Houston.

"[T]he NEA will include an assertion of our defense of a person's right to control their own body, especially for women, youth, and sexually marginalized people," the resolution states. "The NEA vigorously opposes all attacks on the right to choose and stands on the fundamental right to abortion under Roe v. Wade."

The NEA is the largest teachers' union in the U.S. with more than 3 million members. It collected nearly $400 million from American educators in 2018, according to federal labor filings. The union is also one of the most politically active in the country, spending $70 million on politics and lobbying in 2017 and 2018. Nearly all of the union's political action committee spending went to Democrats during the midterm cycle, according to the Center for Responsive Politics.


NEA's 2019 adopted New Business Items (NBIs) reveal what savvy teachers have known for decades: state and national teachers' unions are essentially the political action committee of the Far-Left,"
Largest U.S. Teachers' Union Endorses Abortion




5. the 20-minute video being shown in American classrooms entitled The

Story of Stuff; a catchy title to appeal to grade school kids. This piece of anti-capitalist propaganda was

put together by Greenpeace member Annie Leonard.







6. NYC schools allow kids to go on #ClimateStrike
“TEN YEARS. We have ten years to save the planet,” Mayor Bill de Blasio cautioned in a tweet. “Today’s leaders are making decisions for our environment that our kids will have to live with. New York City stands with our young people. They’re our conscience. We support the 9/20 #ClimateStrike.”

Legions of adolescent activists across the globe are expected to demand immediate action to combat climate change in advance of a major UN conference on the issue next week.

As long as mom and dad sanction their principled truancy, absent kids won’t have attendance records dinged, the DOE said.

The September 20th event will feature Sweden’s “Climate Crisis” sweetheart, 16-year old Greta Thunberg.

Teen activist and Swedish sensation Greta Thunberg, who recently docked her zero-emissions sailboat in New York, will speak at the event which will snake its way through lower Manhattan to Battery Park.

Kids with parental permission to attend will be granted excused absences from school, Education Department officials tweeted Thursday.

The infamous “Green New Deal” will be promoted as well.

The New York City climate strike is backed by more than 100 environmental and political activist groups and other institutions, including New York Communities for Change, The New School and the Sierra Club.

The protesters’ demands include a “Green New Deal” that would end fossil fuel extraction and move the nation onto entirely renewable energy sources by 2030. Green New Deal policies have been backed by the likes of U.S. Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez and Vermont Sen. Bernie Sanders.

Personally, if I were one of the kids, I might argue about going to school at all. After all, if the Earth only has 10 more years before we are going to die, wouldn’t it be better to spend the time having fun or spending quality time with family?

On the other hand, if the New York City school officials were really invested in solving the climate crisis, wouldn’t they emphasize science and math? Perhaps keeping the kids in school and having them conduct experiments or perform calculations would inspire an interest in real climate science.

One theory that seems to prove true and is certainly consistent with what is happening with the New York City schools: When global problems are emphasized by locals, serious local matters are being ignored.

Case in point: New York state test results for third- through eighth-grade public school students are out, and the results are underwhelming.

Statewide, more than half the kids flunked yet again: Just 45.4% were deemed proficient in reading and 46.7% in math. In the city, 47.4% passed the reading test, while 45.6% got by in math.

Think the problem’s skimpy funding? Sorry: In 2017, the Empire Center’s E.J. McMahon reported in May, New York shelled out 89% more per kid than the national average. And that gap has been growing fast: In 1997, per-pupil outlays here were just 45% above average.

…In the city Thursday, Mayor Bill de Blasio and Schools Chancellor Richard Carranza tried to spin the results positively. The pass rate in English, they noted, is up 0.7 percentage points — and three whole points in math.

“Growth counts for something,” Carranza insisted.

Huh? That paltry uptick is what they’re proud of? Even though more than half the kids bombed? Please.

Notably, kids in the one category of public schools de Blasio and Carranza (and their union pals) don’t run — i.e., the charters — beat their counterparts in the regular schools by more than 10 percentage points in both English and math.

At least the kids won’t be flying private jets to attend the event. That makes them substantially less hypocritical than the celebrities who will be indoctrinating them during the Manhattan event.



NYC schools allow kids to go on #ClimateStrike



7. “Fifth-grade teacher defends wearing 'Columbus was a murderer' shirt to school” https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2019/oct/16/fifth-grade-teacher-defends- earing-columbus-was-a/
8. “Seattle Public Schools Say Math Is Racist
The Seattle Public Schools Ethnic Studies Advisory Committee (ESAC) released a rough draft of notes for its Math Ethnic Studies framework in late September, which attempts to connects math to a history of oppression.” Seattle Public Schools Say Math Is Racist

9. “The sex and gender revolutionaries have officially taken over the Austin Independent School District without firing a single shot. In spite of overwhelming opposition from parents and pastors, the district’s trustees voted early Tuesday morning to implement a pornographic sex education policy that includes instruction on anal sex and how to place a condom on an erect penis.

The father of a fifth grader demanded to know who gave the school district the right to teach his child how to have anal and oral sex.” Texas School District Implements Pornographic Sex Education Policy

10.” It appears the Chicago Teachers Union (CTU), which held a solidarity rally this Saturday afternoon, …. seemed more like a convention of far-left radicals than the image of clean-cut teachers the CTU would like to project. Thousands of red-shirted Chicago Teachers Union members flooded into Chicago’s aptly named Union Square Park at noon today to demonstrate for solidarity and workers’ rights. Protesters embraced radical revolutionary imagery, wearing shirts with Che Guevara on them and holding signs emblazoned with the “iron fist.”

Occupy Chicago and anarchist groups as well as the Progressive Labor Party, International Socialists, SEIU, AFL-CIO, and others stood alongside teachers chanting for solidarity…” Radical left coalesces around Chicago Teacher protest


More



In the vid, teacher’s union with the Socialist iron fist banner…







11. “Racial Literacy Curriculum,” elementary schools in Virginia, North Carolina, New Jersey, New York, California, Rhode Island, Missouri, and Illinois have all adopted the mind-blowing, politically-charged brainwash that they tout as education. Topics for Kindergarten to Grade 8 include: implicit bias, white privilege, intersectionality, LGBTQ issues, racism as a “primary institution of the US,” and other such leftist agenda talking points.” EXCLUSIVE: New Leftist ‘Racial Literacy Curriculum’ Brainwashing Elementary School Children

12. The Pollyana Curriculum…nationwide

“Beginning in Grade 3, the Pollyanna "Racial Literacy Curriculum" asks students to become activists in order to achieve leftist goals. The 3rd Grade chapter is entitled "Stories of Activism – How One Voice Can Change a Community." The expected result is for students to understand "how we can be agents of communal, social, political, and environmental change."

…Pollyanna takes leftist activism to new heights, fabricating an image of a racist America that children are taught to rebel against.

By Grade 8,after nine years of acute indoctrination, the children are ready to fight on behalf of leftists in America. "tudents will set commitments for rectifying current social ills, such as learning and planning how to carry out anti-racist activism and/or social advocacy in their communities and/or to improve their everyday lives." The 8th Grade chapter is entitled "Racism as a Primary 'Institution' of the U.S. – How We May Combat Systemic Inequality." EXCLUSIVE: Leftist Activism Is A Requirement Of New Elementary School Curriculum



13. “Minnesota ‘Teacher of the Year’ takes knee during National Anthem at NCAA title game” Minnesota ‘Teacher of the Year’ takes knee during National Anthem at NCAA title game | The College Fix

14. "School in Brooklyn Hands Out “Drag Queen in Training” Stickers to 4-Year-Olds” School in Brooklyn Hands Out “Drag Queen in Training” Stickers to 4-Year-Olds

15. “Teacher: “No Regrets” for Desecrating American Flag in Classroom” Teacher: “No Regrets” for Desecrating American Flag in Classroom

What gods are central to this religion you say is being taught in public school?

The great god, government.


Children are taught to worship Gaia, mother earth.......on the day of Lenin's birthday.

Gee I guess I missed that class because I am no fan of the fucking government either but you are.

Funny how the atheist (me) is critical of all government while the believer( you) is a fan of government.

Seems to me you are a little confused about who is actually indoctrinated here

No vulgarity.

Fuck fuck fuck

Yeah, it looks you were not privileged enough to be sent to Parochial school.
Yes, the education was better than public schools.

I even kept the same book from 7th grade and used it in public school 9th grade.

The book? American Civics. Check it out sometime.

Publisher? Harcourt, Brace, Jovanovich.


Yes, there is a God that created this world, and you denying this doesn't make it not so.

And you believing doesn't mean it is so

Reason and experience say otherwise.

there is no reason to believe in anything without empirical proof

True. There is no requirement for "belief" in regard to the sciences. What we must understand about faith or belief is that it is often confused with trust. The religionist usually argues that we have faith in things all the time; for example, we have faith that gravity will keep us from flying off the planet, or we have faith in friends, or doctors, etc. We do not have faith in these things, we have trust in them, and we have trust in them as long as they continue to warrant that trust. Trust is based on persistence of evidence.

You do realize that the definition of faith is having complete trust in something or someone, right?

 

[ding]

And yet Thomas Paine as well as all founding fathers believed that we were granted inalienable rights

Can you cite evidence for that granting of anything? Unalienable is inherent, the words are "endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights"- inalienable is a grant or pirivilege- grants and privileges are tangible and can be taken- unalienable Rights are not tangible therefore can only be restricted by ignoring or incarcerating the bearer, or making illegal a pursuit of Happiness, or justifying ignorance that law is typically immoral as opposed to punishing criminal behavior, (such as forcing ones belief on another)- if you got here by being born you have the right to breathe- if you have the right to breathe that means you have the right to life- if you have the right to life that means you can choose how you want to live it- if you act immorally (such as taking what you didn't legitimately earn, or forcing your beliefs on others with violent aggression) then you should be punished accordingly- punished by those "granted" that authority, which is a "privilege", neither of which are Rights.

Yes, I can. Don’t you remember my posting their words where they said exactly what I just wrote?

all of the founding fathers of freedom and liberty believed we have a duty and an obligation to God.

 

[Hollie]

I sense your pain and hurt. I pray one day you can let it go and move on.

I used to think that pain and suffering was the only way to convince atheists about God in the afterlife. Prior to that, the best thing an atheist ever said was that every atheist past, present, and future had to be convinced of God. Thus, it had to be settled in the afterlife. However, in 2019 I learned it was covered by God already in the Bible with "every eye will see" prophecy. It meant everything would be settled on Earth.

I wouldn't let the above minimize any need you have to use your gods to threaten people.

 

[ding]

there is no reason to believe in anything without empirical proof

You get absolute proof after you die. It doesn't matter if you don't believe it.

So IF there is an afterlife and a supreme being I will believe it after I see it.

But I don't really think I will see anything after I'm dead

He may just grant you your wish to be left alone and withdraw his spirit from you. Some people don’t know what they had until they lose it.

 

[ding]

I don't capitalize the word god because there have been many many gods created by human beings.

I don't capitalize william for the same reason. Too many williams created by human beings.

The name of the Christian god is not God.

I'll capitalize

Assuming, of course, that you’re not a government school nihilist…y'know, and believe human beings are nothing but accidental constructions of mud and dust.

For those of us who believe otherwise.....

1.We learned about reward and punishment early on, perhaps via this catechism:

He's making a list
He's checking it twice
Gonna find out who's naughty and nice
Santa Claus is coming to town
Santa Claus is coming to town
Santa Claus is coming to town

He sees when you are sleeping
He knows when you're awake
He knows if you been good or bad
So be good for goodness sake

2. At some point later in life it became a more serious question, whether there is something after we shuffle off this mortal coil, and might give some of us pause. Of course, not those victims of government school indoctrination, which does everything possible to marginalize, ridicule, erase, any links to religious traditions. For those folks, it’s government we must worship, and the best part is that the great god government is there to reward all no matter if they’re good or bad. Kind of removes that burden of responsibility.



3. But…”Christian beliefs about life after death are based on the resurrection of Jesus Christ. Christians believe that Jesus’ death and resurrection are part of God’s divine plan for humankind. Through his death on the cross, Jesus pays the penalty for mankind's sin and mankind's relationship with God is restored. This is called atonement. Christians believe that three days after the crucifixion, God raised Jesus from the dead and he once again appeared to his disciples. This is taken to mean that Jesus’ sacrifice was a victory over sin and death. Although physical death still happens, those who believe in Christ and live good lives will be given eternal life in Heaven.” https://www.bbc.co.uk/bitesize/guides/zn6ncdm/revision/3.

And if you read Dante, you have a darn good picture of the damage you will face, depending on how bad you are. Although there was a bar called ‘The Ninth Circle,” in the Village, that was pretty OK……

I always gravitated to the view of the Argentine poet, Jorge Louis Borges: "I have always imagined that paradise will be a kind of library"



4. The Old Testament appears to be clear, if subtle, on the issue of an afterlife.

In telling Abraham, the first Jewish person, of his future, there is this:

15.15 As for you, You shall go to your fathers

“Often, in describing death, the Torah and the rest of the Hebrew Bible use the phrase “gathered to one’s kin.” Here, the Torah describes Abram’s eventual death as Abram going “to your fathers.” For reasons I will explain at length, the Torah never directly declares there is an afterlife. But throughout the Torah, an afterlife is clearly implied. Sarna notes, “In whatever form, the phrase certainly originates from the belief in an afterlife in which one is reunited with one’s ancestors irrespective of where they are buried.” Dennis Prager, “Genesis”



Make you feel better?

Why would it?

DEad is dead there is nothing after

So you best make the most of each and everyday you wake up ans draw breath

"Pascal's wager is an argument in philosophy presented by the seventeenth-century French philosopher, mathematician and physicist, Blaise Pascal (1623–1662).[1] It posits that humans bet with their lives that God either exists or does not.

Pascal argues that a rational person should live as though God exists and seek to believe in God. If God does not actually exist, such a person will have only a finite loss (some pleasures, luxury, etc.), whereas he stands to receive infinite gains (as represented by eternity in Heaven) and avoid infinite losses (eternity in Hell)."

Pascal's wager - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

if a god was really omniscient wouldn't he know if a person is only pretending?

You just admitted that you think god can be duped by mere mortals

The two gifts accorded mankind are free will and intelligence.


God didn't create robots.


In Genesis, we have an occasion where God loses an argument to one of his creations....

I refer to Prager's book, "Genesis."


"GOD IS MORALLY CHALLENGED—A FIRST IN HUMAN HISTORY

18.24 What if there should be fifty innocent within the city; will You then wipe out the place and not forgive it for the sake of the innocent fifty who are in it? Abraham argues for sparing the entire city of Sodom if fifty innocent people live there.

18.25 Far be it from You to do such a thing, to bring death upon the innocent as well as the guilty, so that innocent and guilty fare alike. Far be it from You! Abraham not only argues with God, he declares God wrong—“Far be it from You”—if God should kill the innocent along with the guilty. The Hebrew words chalila l’cha may also be translated, “Don’t you dare do such a thing . . .” It is astonishing that anyone would feel he could speak to a deity in this way. Such a statement is unique among all bibles and perhaps all holy literature. But it is the essence of the Torah and of later Judaism that humans may have so real a relationship with God that we can actually speak this way to Him. This negotiation between Abraham and God led Harvard law professor Alan Dershowitz to title his book on Abraham and the history of Jewish lawyers Abra- ham: The World’s First (But Certainly Not Last) Jewish Lawyer.

18.25 (cont.) Shall not the Judge of all the earth deal justly?”

Abraham was arguing a principle made famous thousands of years later by the English jurist William Blackstone. Known as “Blackstone’s Formulation” and still adhered to today in Western legal thought, it postulated “It is better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer.”4 What is as incredible as Abraham’s arguing with God is his assumption that God is just. It is incredible because we know of no other people at that time or be- fore who made such an assumption about their god(s). This assumption changed history. Never had a human being challenged a god or gods on moral grounds. This is one of many reasons the Torah is as different from pre-Torah thought as life is from non-life, and it is therefore one of the many reasons the Torah—like the emergence of life from non-life—can best be explained by attributing it to God.

Equally amazing, God was in no way upset with Abraham for arguing with Him, or even for the manner (verse 25) in which Abraham spoke to Him. God responded to Abraham’s moral argument by agreeing with him.



He prefaced his next request with a statement of humility.

18.28 What if the fifty innocent should lack five? Will You destroy the whole city for want of the five?” As a bargaining technique, Abraham did not say “forty-five.” He wanted to empha- size the number “five” hoping a compassionate God would not destroy an entire city because just five fewer good people resided there.

18.28 (cont.) And He answered, “I will not destroy if I find forty-five there.”

18.29 But he spoke to Him again, and said, “What if forty should be found there?” And He answered, “I will not do it, for the sake of the forty.” Abraham kept lowering the number of innocent people. And God kept agreeing.

18.30 And he said, “Let not my Lord be angry if I go on: What if thirty should be

found there?” And He answered, “I will not do it if I find thirty there.”

18.31 And he said, “I venture again to speak to my Lord: What if twenty should be found there?” And He answered, “I will not destroy, for the sake of the twenty.”



18.32 And he said, “Let not my Lord be angry if I speak out this last time: What if ten should be found there?” And He answered, “I will not destroy, for the sake of the ten.”

Nevertheless, a small group, as Abraham’s appeal suggests, can make a moral impact. In fact, most of the good that has ever even achieved has been initiated by small groups. Examples include the extraordinary group of founders of America, the handful of Christians who brought about the abolition of slavery, the dissidents in the Soviet Union and other tyrannies who helped bring down evil regimes, and the moral impact of the tiny group of people known as Jews.

In addition to a preoccupation with justice, Abraham demonstrated a concern for humanity in general (starting with the extraordinary hospitality he exhibited at the chapter’s opening). The people of Sodom are not his family, his people, his ethnicity, or his religion, yet their fate weighed on him."


God, in fact, appears to appreciate his creation exhibiting this sort of behavior and initiative.

So your god would congratulate an atheist for pretending to believe in him and then reward said atheist with eternal life in heaven ?

He kind of sounds like an idiot to me if he is so easily fooled

My 'God' is capitalized.

Didn't you learn that in government school?


Bet you can't quote where I said "god would congratulate an atheist for pretending to believe in him and then reward said atheist with eternal life in heaven."

Either you aren't the swiftest of students, or you believe that lying is a valid manner of advancing your argument.
Which is it?


To correct you, I've said that there is a determination for reward and punishment in an afterlife.

I don't capitalize the word god because there have been many many gods created by human beings.

So tell me why are you using Pascal's wager for an argument if the god you believe in can see right through it?

if you really believe that your god is omniscient wouldn't you be telling people that those who would make Pascal's wager are doomed because their ruse would be immediately discovered by a god that knows all?

Or do you really believe people should lie about believing in a god?

"I don't capitalize the word god because there have been many many gods created by human beings."

You know very well you're lying.....and that's the answer to my earlier question....you believe lying is acceptable.

The reason you don't capitalize the term is to show the sort of disrespect for the concept, and you've been trained to do.

I am not lying.

Humans have worshiped many gods.

The one you worship is just one in a very long list of gods.

And I told you why I don't capitalize the word god. It has nothing to do with your beliefs.

And FYI my mother was extremely religious so no one taught me not to capitalize the word god. I decided to do that of my own free will

There is only one God, it is the Judeo-Christian one that served as a foundation for the folks who created this nation.

You really didn't learn anything in that government school, did you.



Out of pity, I'll provide this:

The reason our revolution was so different from the violent, homicidal chaos of the French version was the dominant American culture was Anglo-Saxon and Christian. “52 of the 56 signers of the declaration and 50 to 52 of the 55 signers of the Constitution were orthodox Trinitarian Christians.” http://www.davidlimbaugh.com/mt/archives/2010/02/new_column_libe_4.html

No religion should be taught in public schools

And YOU say there is only one god and you are hardly a credible source

I for one have seen no proof that any gods exist

One is being taught now, you fool: militant secularism, neo-Marxism.

The only religion banned is that of our Founders.



1. "Third-Grade Teacher Has Students Write ‘Get Well’ Cards To Cop Killer Mumia Abu-Jamal A third-grade teacher at a public school in New Jersey is under fire after she encouraged her students to write letters to notorious convicted cop killer Mumia Abu-Jamal, who recently fell ill in prison.

Marylin Zuniga teaches language arts and social studies at Forest Street School in Orange, N.J."

Third-Grade Teacher Has Students Write ‘Get Well’ Cards To Cop Killer Mumia Abu-Jamal



2. - School's Nation of Islam Handout Paints Founding Fathers as Racists


"School's Nation of Islam Handout Paints Founding Fathers as Racists
The teacher also told Sommer that her son was not supposed to take the Nation of Islam handout home. It was supposed to stay in the classroom. That bit of news caused her great alarm.
“The fact that students were cautioned against allowing their parents to see anything is deeply troubling,” West told me. “The only reasonable explanation is they don’t want parents to know what it is their children are learning.”

3. Under pressure from transgender activists, progressive politicians, teacher unions, and the education establishment, and despite parents’ opposition, America’s public schools are capitulating to ideologues and implementing the radical transgender agenda with full force.
...regardless of biological sex, .... Activists want every child, from kindergarten on, to learn that “sex” is something “assigned at birth” rather than a biological reality. They want children to think that individuals get to choose their own “gender identity” (not limited to male or female), and that everyone else must affirm that “gender identity” as true.


...nothing that parents (or teachers) can do to prevent the schools from imposing policies designed to indoctrinate children with gender ideology.

In public education, the “deep state” describes a coalition of various groups – including teachers’ unions, progressive advocacy groups, major corporations, and philanthropists --that work together to promote the progressive worldview..."
America’s Public Education System: The Ultimate Deep State





4. The National Education Association approved a new "business item" expressing support for abortion access during its annual conference in Houston.

"[T]he NEA will include an assertion of our defense of a person's right to control their own body, especially for women, youth, and sexually marginalized people," the resolution states. "The NEA vigorously opposes all attacks on the right to choose and stands on the fundamental right to abortion under Roe v. Wade."

The NEA is the largest teachers' union in the U.S. with more than 3 million members. It collected nearly $400 million from American educators in 2018, according to federal labor filings. The union is also one of the most politically active in the country, spending $70 million on politics and lobbying in 2017 and 2018. Nearly all of the union's political action committee spending went to Democrats during the midterm cycle, according to the Center for Responsive Politics.


NEA's 2019 adopted New Business Items (NBIs) reveal what savvy teachers have known for decades: state and national teachers' unions are essentially the political action committee of the Far-Left,"
Largest U.S. Teachers' Union Endorses Abortion




5. the 20-minute video being shown in American classrooms entitled The

Story of Stuff; a catchy title to appeal to grade school kids. This piece of anti-capitalist propaganda was

put together by Greenpeace member Annie Leonard.







6. NYC schools allow kids to go on #ClimateStrike
“TEN YEARS. We have ten years to save the planet,” Mayor Bill de Blasio cautioned in a tweet. “Today’s leaders are making decisions for our environment that our kids will have to live with. New York City stands with our young people. They’re our conscience. We support the 9/20 #ClimateStrike.”

Legions of adolescent activists across the globe are expected to demand immediate action to combat climate change in advance of a major UN conference on the issue next week.

As long as mom and dad sanction their principled truancy, absent kids won’t have attendance records dinged, the DOE said.

The September 20th event will feature Sweden’s “Climate Crisis” sweetheart, 16-year old Greta Thunberg.

Teen activist and Swedish sensation Greta Thunberg, who recently docked her zero-emissions sailboat in New York, will speak at the event which will snake its way through lower Manhattan to Battery Park.

Kids with parental permission to attend will be granted excused absences from school, Education Department officials tweeted Thursday.

The infamous “Green New Deal” will be promoted as well.

The New York City climate strike is backed by more than 100 environmental and political activist groups and other institutions, including New York Communities for Change, The New School and the Sierra Club.

The protesters’ demands include a “Green New Deal” that would end fossil fuel extraction and move the nation onto entirely renewable energy sources by 2030. Green New Deal policies have been backed by the likes of U.S. Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez and Vermont Sen. Bernie Sanders.

Personally, if I were one of the kids, I might argue about going to school at all. After all, if the Earth only has 10 more years before we are going to die, wouldn’t it be better to spend the time having fun or spending quality time with family?

On the other hand, if the New York City school officials were really invested in solving the climate crisis, wouldn’t they emphasize science and math? Perhaps keeping the kids in school and having them conduct experiments or perform calculations would inspire an interest in real climate science.

One theory that seems to prove true and is certainly consistent with what is happening with the New York City schools: When global problems are emphasized by locals, serious local matters are being ignored.

Case in point: New York state test results for third- through eighth-grade public school students are out, and the results are underwhelming.

Statewide, more than half the kids flunked yet again: Just 45.4% were deemed proficient in reading and 46.7% in math. In the city, 47.4% passed the reading test, while 45.6% got by in math.

Think the problem’s skimpy funding? Sorry: In 2017, the Empire Center’s E.J. McMahon reported in May, New York shelled out 89% more per kid than the national average. And that gap has been growing fast: In 1997, per-pupil outlays here were just 45% above average.

…In the city Thursday, Mayor Bill de Blasio and Schools Chancellor Richard Carranza tried to spin the results positively. The pass rate in English, they noted, is up 0.7 percentage points — and three whole points in math.

“Growth counts for something,” Carranza insisted.

Huh? That paltry uptick is what they’re proud of? Even though more than half the kids bombed? Please.

Notably, kids in the one category of public schools de Blasio and Carranza (and their union pals) don’t run — i.e., the charters — beat their counterparts in the regular schools by more than 10 percentage points in both English and math.

At least the kids won’t be flying private jets to attend the event. That makes them substantially less hypocritical than the celebrities who will be indoctrinating them during the Manhattan event.



NYC schools allow kids to go on #ClimateStrike



7. “Fifth-grade teacher defends wearing 'Columbus was a murderer' shirt to school” https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2019/oct/16/fifth-grade-teacher-defends- earing-columbus-was-a/
8. “Seattle Public Schools Say Math Is Racist
The Seattle Public Schools Ethnic Studies Advisory Committee (ESAC) released a rough draft of notes for its Math Ethnic Studies framework in late September, which attempts to connects math to a history of oppression.” Seattle Public Schools Say Math Is Racist

9. “The sex and gender revolutionaries have officially taken over the Austin Independent School District without firing a single shot. In spite of overwhelming opposition from parents and pastors, the district’s trustees voted early Tuesday morning to implement a pornographic sex education policy that includes instruction on anal sex and how to place a condom on an erect penis.

The father of a fifth grader demanded to know who gave the school district the right to teach his child how to have anal and oral sex.” Texas School District Implements Pornographic Sex Education Policy

10.” It appears the Chicago Teachers Union (CTU), which held a solidarity rally this Saturday afternoon, …. seemed more like a convention of far-left radicals than the image of clean-cut teachers the CTU would like to project. Thousands of red-shirted Chicago Teachers Union members flooded into Chicago’s aptly named Union Square Park at noon today to demonstrate for solidarity and workers’ rights. Protesters embraced radical revolutionary imagery, wearing shirts with Che Guevara on them and holding signs emblazoned with the “iron fist.”

Occupy Chicago and anarchist groups as well as the Progressive Labor Party, International Socialists, SEIU, AFL-CIO, and others stood alongside teachers chanting for solidarity…” Radical left coalesces around Chicago Teacher protest


More



In the vid, teacher’s union with the Socialist iron fist banner…







11. “Racial Literacy Curriculum,” elementary schools in Virginia, North Carolina, New Jersey, New York, California, Rhode Island, Missouri, and Illinois have all adopted the mind-blowing, politically-charged brainwash that they tout as education. Topics for Kindergarten to Grade 8 include: implicit bias, white privilege, intersectionality, LGBTQ issues, racism as a “primary institution of the US,” and other such leftist agenda talking points.” EXCLUSIVE: New Leftist ‘Racial Literacy Curriculum’ Brainwashing Elementary School Children

12. The Pollyana Curriculum…nationwide

“Beginning in Grade 3, the Pollyanna "Racial Literacy Curriculum" asks students to become activists in order to achieve leftist goals. The 3rd Grade chapter is entitled "Stories of Activism – How One Voice Can Change a Community." The expected result is for students to understand "how we can be agents of communal, social, political, and environmental change."

…Pollyanna takes leftist activism to new heights, fabricating an image of a racist America that children are taught to rebel against.

By Grade 8,after nine years of acute indoctrination, the children are ready to fight on behalf of leftists in America. "tudents will set commitments for rectifying current social ills, such as learning and planning how to carry out anti-racist activism and/or social advocacy in their communities and/or to improve their everyday lives." The 8th Grade chapter is entitled "Racism as a Primary 'Institution' of the U.S. – How We May Combat Systemic Inequality." EXCLUSIVE: Leftist Activism Is A Requirement Of New Elementary School Curriculum



13. “Minnesota ‘Teacher of the Year’ takes knee during National Anthem at NCAA title game” Minnesota ‘Teacher of the Year’ takes knee during National Anthem at NCAA title game | The College Fix

14. "School in Brooklyn Hands Out “Drag Queen in Training” Stickers to 4-Year-Olds” School in Brooklyn Hands Out “Drag Queen in Training” Stickers to 4-Year-Olds

15. “Teacher: “No Regrets” for Desecrating American Flag in Classroom” Teacher: “No Regrets” for Desecrating American Flag in Classroom

What gods are central to this religion you say is being taught in public school?

The great god, government.


Children are taught to worship Gaia, mother earth.......on the day of Lenin's birthday.

Gee I guess I missed that class because I am no fan of the fucking government either but you are.

Funny how the atheist (me) is critical of all government while the believer( you) is a fan of government.

Seems to me you are a little confused about who is actually indoctrinated here

No vulgarity.

Fuck fuck fuck

Yeah, it looks you were not privileged enough to be sent to Parochial school.
Yes, the education was better than public schools.

I even kept the same book from 7th grade and used it in public school 9th grade.

The book? American Civics. Check it out sometime.

Publisher? Harcourt, Brace, Jovanovich.


Yes, there is a God that created this world, and you denying this doesn't make it not so.

And you believing doesn't mean it is so

Reason and experience say otherwise.

there is no reason to believe in anything without empirical proof

There’s plenty of empirical evidence. It is literally all around you.

But putting that aside 90% of everything we know was accepted on authority of others. We didn't actually do the work or see the evidence. We took it on the word of others. Anyone who would scoff at accepting knowledge on the authority of others would have to go around knowing next to nothing their whole life.

With that said we shouldn’t blindly accept knowledge on the authority of others either. We should make some effort to see if what they claim makes sense.

We in all our arrogance think we understand the universe when in reality 95% of it is an utter mystery

But the mere fact that we do not understand something is in no way proof that a supreme being is responsible for it

My dog will never understand fractions because her brain has real physical limitations.

I believe that the human brain also has limitations and that we very well may be incapable of understanding the universe.

I have always found more than interesting that the biblical order of the creation of the universe is the very same that modern science has come around to proposing.

1. God’s first command in Genesis is “Let there be light.” Nor is this the only introduction of light in the Genesis creation account, but it is the first, it represents the beginning of the formation of our solar system. And that was ‘The Big Bang’…some 13,700 million years ago. Quite an event…it lasted just 10 to the minus 35th seconds, beginning the universe, generating time and space, as well as all the matter and energy that the universe would ever, ever, contain! Big Bang…explosion….energy….light. But no atoms to form the sun for some time. Light…but no sun? So says science. And so says Genesis. Parker, “The Genesis Enigma,” chapter two.

a. For reference, Genesis 1, verses 1-4: In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters. And God said, Let there be light: and there was light. And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.



2. Modern science has largely revealed the earth’s history with respect to the land and the seas. Coincidently, the first chapter of the Bible relates a formation, a creation narrative, strangely similar to scientific understanding.


a. Genesis 1: 6-10…”And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters. And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so. And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day. And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dryland appear: and it was so. And God called the dry landEarth; and the gathering together of the waters called he Seas: and God saw that it wasgood.


b. “The formation of the sea as well as the land is chosen as the second stage in the creation on the Bible’s first page. Modern science reveals that land and sea certainly were in place before the next stage in the scientific account of the history of the universe.” Parker, “The Genesis Enigma,” p.54. What a coincidence….or confluence.


Curious, the author of Genesis lived in a landlocked region; and Moses wandered in the desert, not along the coast. Yet…sea and land appear in this prominent position in Genesis. Must be a coincidence….



3. The opening page of Genesis asserts that plant life appeared after the seas were formed, and names specifically, grass, herbs and fruit trees. According to the author of Genesis, this is the stage where life actually begins: this is the first mention life of any kind. Plant life. Yet, the simple forms of life that are considered plant life were not discovered until a couple of millennia after Genesis was completed. So…how come Genesis mentions grass, herbs, and fruit trees at precisely this moment on the creation narrative? Parker, “The Genesis Enigma,” chapter four.


a. Genesis 1: 11-12 And God said, Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed,and the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed is in itself, upon the earth: and it was so. And the earth brought forth grass, and herb yielding seed after his kind, and the tree yielding fruit, whose seed was in itself, after his kind: and God saw that it was good.


b. “ From about 400 million years back to 600 million years, all kinds of complex multicellular life would have been confined to the waters of the earth….Our world's ecosystems depend upon photosynthesis to construct the fuel that all life runs on; in an ancient world with conditions similar to today's, you would need plants (as organisms that can make complex "fuel" molecules using simple building blocks and energy available from the environment, plants are known as one type of autotrophs, or "self-feeders") to evolve first, or there would be no bottom link to the food chain.” Biology of Animals & Plants - Origins & History of Life on Earth



4. Track the events in the creation account of Genesis and it’s amazing how closely the events conform to the current view of modern science. An explosion- the universe – oceans/land - plants- …And next, in verse 20, we find: And God said, Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that hath life, and fowl that may fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven.


Kind of unusual…since the author of Genesis, and, if we are to believe that the first one to speak those words, Moses, didn’t really live in a habitat that one might call ‘sea side.’


Would have been understandable if this space in the Bible had, instead, have focused on the numbers of land mammals, birds, or insects found in ancient Israel, wouldn’t it? But, instead, marine organisms are specifically named: ‘Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that hath life,…’


Wouldn’t it be interesting if science find lots and lots of marine organisms extant at this point? Imagine if Genesis actually parallels the history of life on earth as expounded by science. Be a heck of a coincidence.

a. A truly important development took place some 521 million years ago, in the geological period known as the Cambrian. “The most abundant and diverse animals of Cambrian time were the trilobites. Trilobites had long antennae, compound eyes, many jointed legs, and a hard exoskeleton like many of their modern arthropod relatives, such as lobsters, crabs, and insects. The Cambrian is sometimes called the "Age of Trilobites"…” Redirect


b. No earlier fossils were found during Darwin’s lifetime: “If the theory [evolution] be true it is indisputable that before the lowest Cambrian stratum was deposited ... the world swarmed with living creatures. [Yet] to the question why we do not find rich fossiliferous deposits belonging to these earliest periods. . . I can give no satisfactory answer. The case at present must remain inexplicable.” http://www.paleosoc.org/Oldest_Fossil.pdf

....life at this stage, about 500 million years ago, was entirely marine.

How could the Genesis writer have gotten this right?

That writer…he’s landlocked, knows little of diversity….what are the odds that ‘chance’ is the answer?


What are the odds?



5. The sequence of events from the creation of the universe, to the present, begin with great explosion that produces the universe, including the earth. The earth cools enough for oceans to form. The first life is plant life, able to photosynthesize, and add oxygen to the atmosphere. All sorts of simple non-plants fill the seas, most wormlike, with soft bodies. Along come the trilobites, hugely advanced, with hard bodies…and most amazingly, with true eyes! This makes them the primary predators….but, imposes enormous evolutionary pressure on the other organisms. The result is the Cambrian explosion, lots of small organisms with defensive armor and hard exoskeletons, some 521 million years ago. So says modern science.


a. “…Genesis shows remarkable accuracy when compared to the scientific story of life’s evolutionary journey. Here, the Genesis writer envisioned great creatures evolving from those tiny Cambrian forms, eventually making their way out of the sea….Genesis seems to have picked out all the events of the highest order of importance, and put them in the right order….I don’t know the odds against such a parallel- against making a successful guess at the scientific orthodoxy of three thousand year into the future from a knowledge base of nothing- but they must be extraordinarily long.” Parker, Op. Cit., p.163-164.


b. An interesting sidelight is the ‘evolution of the Bible’ itself. Christians have incorporated a great deal of science’s process. Early in the 20th century, the Scofield Reference Bible was published. This was a new version of the King James Bible with which added a note to Genesis, suggesting what is called the “gap theory.’ It allows that millions of years could have passed between God’s creation of the heavens and the earth, thereby freeing Genesis from the literal six-day process. “What it left was a series- the same series- of timeless events; and it is these that match the scientific account of life’s history.” Parker, “The Genesis Enigma,” p. 160.


6. Unavoidable is the recognition that, once the restrictions due to the ‘six-day’ view are removed, the order of events established by modern science conform to the sequence in the first chapter of Genesis, written millennia earlier: light from an explosion (the Big Bang), universe/earth formed, the seas from the cooling earth, plants as the first life forms; abundant sea life (the Cambrian explosion), the (evolution) of the flora and fauna we see today. Neat, eh?

Lucky guess by the author of the creation account of Genesis?


7. If it is not evidence for the God, then the author of Genesis 1, or Moses, perhaps, must have understood that the universe formed first, then the seas appeared on earth, and that life forms were photosynthetic. Following that, he had to have realized that an eye evolved in an early animal in the geological past, which triggered the evolution of all the major groups of animals that exist today. Still further, he must have felt that all of this occurred in the seas, before animals moved onto land, and only when they did move out of the water did mammals and birds evolve.


The Old Testament was written, although not compiled, almost three millennia ago. It is extraordinary that the writer of the creation account in Genesis, chapter one, got it right in his exposition of the series of events: his sequence turns out to be scientifically accurate in terms of contemporary knowledge.


Wow! What an incredibly lucky guess! What a considerable stroke of good fortune!


The alternative explanation is divine intervention.

Both are merely theories that are unproven

....but taught in government school as though there were facts.

I have never seen the big bang be called fact.

It is the best theory we have based on our observations.

But then consider the fact that we have only observed about 5% of the matter and energy that comprises the universe you have to admit that the big bang even if it is the theory that best reflects our observations is not adequate.

Unlike some, I see no need to attribute the origins of the universe to a god simply because we as human beings may be incapable of every understanding the process.

It’s a little more than that. It’s energy being created from nothing according to the laws of nature which means they were in place before space and time and those laws predestined intelligence to arise. In effect the universe is an intelligence creating machine. It’s not an accident.

 

[Hollie]

An expectation is no better than a wish

I think most would agree that expecting a baby is far different from wishing for a baby.

Once again we understand how reproduction works.

So the expectation of the result of a known process is very different from the expectation of something of which there is no proof of existence.

You expect to live in some eternal afterlife with absolutely no proof that anyone who has lived before you is experiencing an afterlife.

Now if a virgin said she was expecting to have a baby even though she had no plans of actually having sex that would be more in line with your expectation of an afterlife

An expectation is no better than a wish

I think most would agree that expecting a baby is far different from wishing for a baby.

Once again we understand how reproduction works.

So the expectation of the result of a known process is very different from the expectation of something of which there is no proof of existence.

You expect to live in some eternal afterlife with absolutely no proof that anyone who has lived before you is experiencing an afterlife.

Now if a virgin said she was expecting to have a baby with no intention of ever having sex that would be more in line with your expectation of an afterlife

Jesus died, Yet there is evidence of his rulership in God's kingdom since Isaiah 2:2-4 is being fulfilled now among God's people who give their sole allegiance to the government of God (aka God's kingdom) with Jesus as anointed King.

While on the United Nations 'Isaiah wall' this verse is quoted - the UN has not been able to fulfill people of all nations no longer going to war.

But Isaiah 2:4 is being fulfilled - God's people who are of all nations "learn war no more." Only God's kingdom could have accomplished this miracle.

confirmation bias

Bias - who me?

Seriously, check out the documentation at the United States National Holocaust Museum:

Search Results

www.ushmm.org

For example:

Jehovah's Witnesses in Germany: From the 1890s to 1945

The Nazi regime targeted Jehovah’s Witnesses for persecution. Learn about the history of Jehovah’s Witnesses in Germany before and after the Nazi rise to power.

encyclopedia.ushmm.org

"The Nazi regime targeted Jehovah's Witnesses for persecution because they refused, out of religious conviction, to swear loyalty to a worldly government or to serve in its armed forces. Jehovah's Witnesses also engaged in missionary activity to win adherents for the faith. The Nazis perceived the refusal to commit to the state and efforts to proselytize as overtly political and subversive acts. Unlike Jews and Roma (Gypsies), whom the Nazis targeted for perceived racial reasons, Jehovah's Witnesses had the option to avoid persecution and personal harm by submitting to state authority and serving in the armed forces. Since such submission would violate their religious beliefs, the vast majority of Jehovah's Witnesses refused to abandon their faith even in the face of persecution, torture in concentration camps, or death."

So proof of moral convictions of a group of people is the same a proof that god exists?

People throughout history have chosen to die for their beliefs that is not proof of anything but their personal convictions

I was responding to a poster on thread title - proof that Jesus was resurrected. God did not die - Jesus died. And I gave you the prophecy - did you read it at Isaiah 2:2-4? For example "learn war no more?"

We give our sole allegiance to God's government/kingdom with Jesus anointed as King by God. This is one of the laws of that King (see Matthew 5:44). If Jesus is not ruling us - who else could accomplish this miracle? As I posted, the UN wanted to accomplish this - that is why Isaiah 2:4 is quoted on its Isaiah wall. Has the UN been able to accomplish that noble goal?

Simply, no human government can sustain peace for decades or stop nations warring against one another. Only God's Kingdom can and has among people of all nations who give their sole allegiance to that government and its living King.

It's unlikely that religions in competition to Christianity are going to pledge sole allegiance to your God's government/kingdom with Jesus anointed as King by God.

 

[james bond]

I sense your pain and hurt. I pray one day you can let it go and move on.

I used to think that pain and suffering was the only way to convince atheists about God in the afterlife. Prior to that, the best thing an atheist ever said was that every atheist past, present, and future had to be convinced of God. Thus, it had to be settled in the afterlife. However, in 2019 I learned it was covered by God already in the Bible with "every eye will see" prophecy. It meant everything would be settled on Earth.

I wouldn't let the above minimize any need you have to use your gods to threaten people.

What threatening? Atheists want proof to this day. The Christians, even after reading the Bible and believing in Jesus Christ such as Blaise Pascal, do not know. If we are dead, then we will be waiting for the day "every eye will see," too. In other words, we will be shown proof positive after death, too. We do not know whether it will be pre-Tribulation, mid-Tribulation, or post-Tribulation. When we are discussing Daniel, then one day doesn't refer to one day. It's one year. Thus, the Tribulations refers to hundreds of years times. Many believers think they will be in rapture, i.e. hands of a wrathful Jesus, in order to avoid the Tribulation. That would be before the Tribulation begins. People talk of poles reversing, so that is when that will happen during Tribulation. The atheists believe the magnetic poles reverse, but I don't think that's it at all. Much of atheists beliefs come from the Bible, too. Just different interpretation.

 

[Hollie]

I sense your pain and hurt. I pray one day you can let it go and move on.

I used to think that pain and suffering was the only way to convince atheists about God in the afterlife. Prior to that, the best thing an atheist ever said was that every atheist past, present, and future had to be convinced of God. Thus, it had to be settled in the afterlife. However, in 2019 I learned it was covered by God already in the Bible with "every eye will see" prophecy. It meant everything would be settled on Earth.

I wouldn't let the above minimize any need you have to use your gods to threaten people.

What threatening? Atheists want proof to this day. The Christians, even after reading the Bible and believing in Jesus Christ such as Blaise Pascal, do not know. If we are dead, then we will be waiting for the day "every eye will see," too. In other words, we will be shown proof positive after death, too. We do not know whether it will be pre-Tribulation, mid-Tribulation, or post-Tribulation. When we are discussing Daniel, then one day doesn't refer to one day. It's one year. Thus, the Tribulations refers to hundreds of years times. Many believers think they will be in rapture, i.e. hands of a wrathful Jesus, in order to avoid the Tribulation. That would be before the Tribulation begins. People talk of poles reversing, so that is when that will happen during Tribulation. The atheists believe the magnetic poles reverse, but I don't think that's it at all. Much of atheists beliefs come from the Bible, too. Just different interpretation.

I don’t presume to know what Atheists want, so I'll leave the presumptions to you. It’s not unreasonable for me to expect creationists to make a supportable argument, one that doesn’t make appeals to magic and supernaturalism.

Your argument is that we must wait until death in order for your argument, (which you presume to be true) is proven true, until that time, we are required to accept your argument as true. I call that “ridiculous”

As to the creationist revising and re-writing their Bibles to make one day equal to one year, such manipulation is common yet it doesn't make sense to:

A. Use the bible as the source of your religious belief in the gods
only to

B. Dismiss what the bible says about the Gods in favor of something you'd like it to be instead of what it says.


As to those horrible evilutionist Atheists and their magnetic pole reversals, don’t listen to these guys: https://www.nasa.gov/topics/earth/features/2012-poleReversal.html <----- they're evil and only want to lead you astray.

Instead, read your Bibles. You’re not entitled to anything more. .

 

[ding]

And yet Thomas Paine as well as all founding fathers believed that we were granted inalienable rights for no other reason than we are God’s creatures and that those rights are conditional upon our serving and satisfying our duties to God.

True for most “Founding Fathers,” but I think not exactly right about Paine. Paine did believe in “One God” as most Deists did, but he tempered this belief (as is evident in the previous quote) by strong criticism of all organized religions and their many articles of faith. Not an atheist, he believed the “natural rights of man” were morally recognizable as were “natural laws” in science and nature. He believed we needed to live in accord with these laws, but I don’t think this meant, in a modern religious sense, “serving and satisfying our duties to God.”

Paine would have certainly despised the religious demagogy of PolicalChic.

But you raise an interesting question about how Paine viewed “God.” His writings at different times seemed to emphasize different aspects of the question, and never were especially interested in “the divine.” Of course Paine was a good friend and admirer of the great artisan mystic William Blake. For Paine, God as mysterious “Creator” did not interfere in the existing world. In that sense at least God made no specific demands on us. God had, as it were, merely left the world and humanity as it was, and human beings had simply to discover the natural morality within it. Of course Paine lived before Darwin, before Freud or modern psychology, and Paine was hardly a rigorous thinker or philosopher. But he was in many ways ahead of his times, being an abolitionist and a courageous internationalist.

Right, but inherent in the belief in nature’s law is man’s obligation and duty to behave with virtue. Failing to do so not only negates the right to govern but also negates one’s right to natural rights. This is literally the basis for revolution and the rule of law which results in incarceration. So it should come as no surprise that inalienable rights do come with obligations and duties. Inalienable rights are not unconditional.

 

[bluzman61]

Assuming, of course, that you’re not a government school nihilist…y'know, and believe human beings are nothing but accidental constructions of mud and dust.

For those of us who believe otherwise.....

1.We learned about reward and punishment early on, perhaps via this catechism:

He's making a list
He's checking it twice
Gonna find out who's naughty and nice
Santa Claus is coming to town
Santa Claus is coming to town
Santa Claus is coming to town

He sees when you are sleeping
He knows when you're awake
He knows if you been good or bad
So be good for goodness sake

2. At some point later in life it became a more serious question, whether there is something after we shuffle off this mortal coil, and might give some of us pause. Of course, not those victims of government school indoctrination, which does everything possible to marginalize, ridicule, erase, any links to religious traditions. For those folks, it’s government we must worship, and the best part is that the great god government is there to reward all no matter if they’re good or bad. Kind of removes that burden of responsibility.



3. But…”Christian beliefs about life after death are based on the resurrection of Jesus Christ. Christians believe that Jesus’ death and resurrection are part of God’s divine plan for humankind. Through his death on the cross, Jesus pays the penalty for mankind's sin and mankind's relationship with God is restored. This is called atonement. Christians believe that three days after the crucifixion, God raised Jesus from the dead and he once again appeared to his disciples. This is taken to mean that Jesus’ sacrifice was a victory over sin and death. Although physical death still happens, those who believe in Christ and live good lives will be given eternal life in Heaven.” https://www.bbc.co.uk/bitesize/guides/zn6ncdm/revision/3.

And if you read Dante, you have a darn good picture of the damage you will face, depending on how bad you are. Although there was a bar called ‘The Ninth Circle,” in the Village, that was pretty OK……

I always gravitated to the view of the Argentine poet, Jorge Louis Borges: "I have always imagined that paradise will be a kind of library"



4. The Old Testament appears to be clear, if subtle, on the issue of an afterlife.

In telling Abraham, the first Jewish person, of his future, there is this:

15.15 As for you, You shall go to your fathers

“Often, in describing death, the Torah and the rest of the Hebrew Bible use the phrase “gathered to one’s kin.” Here, the Torah describes Abram’s eventual death as Abram going “to your fathers.” For reasons I will explain at length, the Torah never directly declares there is an afterlife. But throughout the Torah, an afterlife is clearly implied. Sarna notes, “In whatever form, the phrase certainly originates from the belief in an afterlife in which one is reunited with one’s ancestors irrespective of where they are buried.” Dennis Prager, “Genesis”



Make you feel better?

ANOTHER fantastic post, PC. Thanks. I am a firm believer in God and I pray several times a day for guidance and strength. This always gives me peace of mind and makes me feel better. I like to believe in the idea of afterlife, especially the idea of reincarnation. My mother was a firm believer in reincarnation, and she told me WHY she believed this, and mentioned several literary works she had read about it. She made a pretty convincing case for reincarnation. But what it all comes down to for me is that NO ONE can say if there really IS an afterlife, because there has been no irrefutable proof of such. But again, I really DO like the idea of reincarnation, and HOPE it is so.