Ali's phenomenally weak punch

[rupol2000]

By his own admission, Ali was not known for being a knockout puncher, however he managed to win 37 of his 61 bouts by stoppage.

As far as his punch being "weak", that is an unfounded exaggeration on your part.

You must not have seen Ali's fight with Oscar Bonavena. After he came back from being banned from competition for 3 1/2 years he knocked out Bonavena in the 15 round in only the second fight that he had after coming back. Bonavena had NEVER been stopped before.

Joe Frazier fought Bonavena twice and had to get up from two knockdowns to win a hard fought decision.

I used to box myself. I don't see his hard punch, and I don't even see his technically correct punches. He just waves his arms like a woman in a market. His "knock downs" just the scum, or his opponents were too tired

 

[rupol2000]

This, by the way, is another question: in which brothel was this clown taught boxing at all? He has no boxing technique, no footwork, even by the standards of the cowardly British school, he is a hippopotamus. Compare him to Roy Jones. Roy Jones followed approximately this tactic, but he is plastic, handsome and fast.

 

[multivita-man]

Slippery liar, did we talk about until what year Tyson was successful? We talked about how you don't know shit about boxing

If you consider girls with holes between their legs like Ali or Klitschko or Byrd to be "elite fighters" then probably no one lol

So you can't name an elite fighter Tyson beat in his prime, then. Okay, thanks for clearing that up.

 

[rupol2000]

So you can't name an elite fighter Tyson beat in his prime, then. Okay, thanks for clearing that up.

It is not customary for men to fight with girls, especially with those who squeal loudly

 

[multivita-man]

It is not customary for men to fight with girls, especially with those who squeal loudly

 

[katsteve2012]

I used to box myself. I don't see his hard punch, and I don't even see his technically correct punches. He just waves his arms like a woman in a market. His "knock downs" just the scum, or his opponents were too tired

And? I boxed as well, and also happen to know a few former as well as current professional boxers, trainers and journalists, and I saw Ali fight live in some of his biggest fights.

Ali fought and defeated every top contender and former champion in his era, he won the heavyweight title in three different decades, and defended the title 19 times and avenged his title losses to Frazier and Spinks.

And he did so during what was the most talented era of professional heavyweights in history.

Those are very impressive accomplishments for someone who just "waved his arms like a woman".

 

[katsteve2012]

This, by the way, is another question: in which brothel was this clown taught boxing at all? He has no boxing technique, no footwork, even by the standards of the cowardly British school, he is a hippopotamus. Compare him to Roy Jones. Roy Jones followed approximately this tactic, but he is plastic, handsome and fast.

There is no comparison between Jones and Ali.

Jones was super fast in his prime, but when his footspeed began to fade, he was exposed as not having the same level of versatility as Ali for his style to evolve.

Watch his back to back knockout losses to Antonio Tarver and Glen Johnson(who was at best, a mediocre contender)

After Ali's speed diminished, he reinvented himself. As good as Roy Jones was, he could not do it.

 

[multivita-man]

There is no comparison between Jones and Ali.

Jones was super fast in his prime, but when his footspeed began to fade, he was exposed as not having the same level of versatility as Ali for his style to evolve.

Watch his back to back knockout losses to Antonio Tarver and Glen Johnson(who was at best, a mediocre contender)

After Ali's speed diminished, he reinvented himself. As good as Roy Jones was, he could not do it.

Tarver was just a terrible matchup for Jones, who never figured out the southpaw. And I say that as a huge fan of prime RJJ - just electrifying speed, and he was masterful at disguising some of his punches. To use a baseball analogy, his opponents would be thinking changeup and they'd be staring up at the ceiling lights a moment later thinking "Nope, it was a fastball" lol

 

[katsteve2012]

Tarver was just a terrible matchup for Jones, who never figured out the southpaw. And I say that as a huge fan of prime RJJ - just electrifying speed, and he was masterful at disguising some of his punches. To use a baseball analogy, his opponents would be thinking changeup and they'd be staring up at the ceiling lights a moment later thinking "Nope, it was a fastball" lol

There was everything to like about RJJ in his prime.

I think I recall that after losing the Tarver fight Roy's trainer said "He's just getting hit too much", and then after getting knocked out cold in his very next fight against Johnson, I would have liked to see him hang it up.

 

[Couchpotato]

Yeah when Ali was 39 and had clear signs of brain damage.



Prime and even post-prime Ali would have beaten Tyson, no problem. Tyson was really good at one thing: he cleaned out the heavyweight division in the 1980s but the Olympic boxers in 1984 and 1988 caught up to Tyson.

I've covered this on other forums. In the late 1970s and early 1980s, the best of the boxing legends - including some of the best the sport had ever seen -were on the decline. The fighters who came in to replace the Alis, Foremans, Nortons were bigger, stronger, powerful boxers but they were stand-up, straight-up fighters, including Larry Holmes and Gerry Cooney.

The fighters that took over in the 1980s basically had one game plan: stand and trade blows with your opponent and use your jab to create distance. The head movement, the athleticism, the boxing...it was all gone. Until Tyson came to town. Tyson was the most athletically gifted fighter the division had seen since Ali in his prime back in 1975. The stand-up and trade blows fighters paid the price against Tyson who, under Cus D'Amato's tutelage, emphasized head movement and counterpunching. He was made for the 1980s, after the great legends of the 1970s had retired and before the Olympic boxers of the 1984 and 1988 squad started to develop. Once Holyfield, Lennox, and Bowe developed, Tyson was done. Never had a chance against any of those guys. And if you think Holyfield and Lewis beat Tyson, Bowe would have murdered him.

Post prison Tyson wasn’t the same fighter as pre prison Tyson.

 

[multivita-man]

Post prison Tyson wasn’t the same fighter as pre prison Tyson.

And post-prison Ali wasn't the same Ali.

What did Tyson go to prison for? (Raping barely legal girls/women)

What did Ali go to prison for? (Refusing to kill people in a war)

 

[Couchpotato]

And post-prison Ali wasn't the same Ali.

What did Tyson go to prison for? (Raping barely legal girls/women)

What did Ali go to prison for? (Refusing to kill people in a war)

I don’t know what that has to do with the Tyson Lewis fight.

 

[multivita-man]

I don’t know what that has to do with the Tyson Lewis fight.

You mean the one that Lewis Knocked Tyson TFO?! lol

"Oh but Tyson was old then!"

Lennox Lewis and Evander Holyfield were both older than Tyson. Get it? lol

 

[Couchpotato]

And post-prison Ali wasn't the same Ali.

What did Tyson go to prison for? (Raping barely legal girls/women)

What did Ali go to prison for? (Refusing to kill people in a war)

Also Ali never went to prison. He Was sentenced to 5 years but stayed out of jail until the Supreme Court ruled in his favor on appeal.

 

[Couchpotato]

You mean the one that Lewis Knocked Tyson TFO?! lol

was that before or after his prison stint?

 

[multivita-man]

was that before or after his prison stint?

It was late in Tyson's career. Tyson wouldn't fight Lewis, and many other fighters avoided him, too. Tyson was scared of Lewis. And now we know why:

 

[Couchpotato]

It was late in Tyson's career. Tyson wouldn't fight Lewis, and many other fighters avoided him, too. Tyson was scared of Lewis. And now we know why:

So like I said post prison Tyson was not the same fighter as pre prison Tyson. You’ve yet to state anything that would move me off that contention

 

[Mr. Friscus]

Many things to consider between Ali vs. Tyson
1. It would be a classic collision of two different styles. The Dancing/Prancing technician fighter (Ali) vs. the tough, clubbing knockout artist (Tyson). Think Apollo Creed vs. Clubber Lang.

2. Training norms and sports education matters when crossing generational divides. Ali was in a generation previous to Tyson, so Tyson had greater knowledge capital and training methods, although in boxing it's not as great of a divide as other sports. Meanwhile, it doesn't appear that Mike Tyson was some product of modern training methods at the time.

3. Ali faced some bigger heavy hitters in his career, but when I look at the fights it's clear that he's facing people that are absolutely below his level in boxing technique. Foreman looked like an NFL offensive linemen out there, pushing Ali into corners without covering himself up. Foreman didn't defend himself well nor did he throw efficient punches. He was a massive, unwashed brute. The fact that Ali beat him really doesn't surprise me at all.

4. Ali's rope-a-dope would have tee'd himself up for the Tyson uppercuts that I don't think Ali could handle.

If prime Ali and prime Tyson fought 10 times, Tyson would win 6-7 via knockout, and Ali would win 3-4 in decisions.