Allowing conceal carry in schools

[Ray From Cleveland]

i really don’t see the downside of allowing teachers or even mature students carrying concealed weapons at school. In the 18th and 19th century this was a common occurrence without any issue.

I keep getting told that we can’t trust our teachers with a firearm. That makes no sense. If we can’t trust our teachers to protect our children then how can we trust them to teach our children?

Just because someone can teach calculus does not mean that they can hit the broad side of a barn with a gun.

even if they could their shooting skills abandon them if someone is shooting back if they're not VERY HIGHLY TRAINED in a firefight situation ..

Ideally they will never have to.

But if it’s a choice between protecting the students with nothing and protecting them with a gun, what is more rational?

lock the classroom door and protect your students .. shootouts aint the Fn answer.

Correct, because an AR is no match for a door lock.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Conduct another poll, when an armed shooter enters their classroom.

`
Why? Do you think that will change a teachers mind? Teachers are barely getting paid enough to do their primary duty to teach. Now, trump wants them to carry guns, just in case? That may work in urban public schools But these child massacres are happening in suburban public schools. All of the perps have been males.
`

What Trump wants is to give them the ability to carry if they desire. Gun free zones mean nothing to a crazed shooter. So why not just make them gun permissible zones to accommodate teachers? I don't think a teacher is worried about how much he or she is getting paid when it comes to saving their students.

 

[toobfreak]

Just because someone can teach calculus does not mean that they can hit the broad side of a barn with a gun.

even if they could their shooting skills abandon them if someone is shooting back if they're not VERY HIGHLY TRAINED in a firefight situation ..

TOTAL BULL. You obviously don't know that most people with a carry license DO get training and DO practice regularly. If someone is trying to kill you with a gun, you will be trying your damned best to get them first. Skill or no skill, better to be able to shoot back and have a chance of hitting them than NO CHANCE AT ALL, besides, while you are shooting at the attacker, he will be tied down with your fire, backing off, rather than spraying the classroom killing the school kids. Just once show a little common sense.

I have a carry license dipshit .. I can give you a third eye at 40 yards OR TAKE THE SECOND BUTTON OFF YOUR SHIRT AT 300 YARDS .. accuracy isnt the issue - mental training and applying it is .. hard core breech and neutralize teams like SWAT or SEALS train more times a year than you have IQ points.. average pukes like you change dramatically when youre being shot at .. everything but your mouth and internet bravado ..

Aside being being a total bullshit liar, you're an idiot for suggesting that a person needs a level of skill and training impractical and unattainable to nearly all before they should arm themselves and fight back to save their life and those of children in a set of situations you cannot possible even anticipate! Congrats, Moron, you've just topped your own record for dumbest possible things said ever.

so why in hell does LAW ENFORCEMENT disagree with your stupid ass ...

gawd, RW's get dumber by the F'n second ... dipshit message board members know MUCH BETTER than the people that do it for a living.

go rub one off moron.

If you were full of any more crap, baby killer, it would be coming out of your eyes. You can't shoot, you don't even own a gun, and you'd be the first person to shit your pants if someone were shooting at you. Just because you're a coward, don't assume that everyone else is or needs the training of a SWAT team in order to carry a gun or come to the aide of civilians in every day life. People do it ALL THE TIME, you little filthy liar.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

They had to do it. Rumor had it that liberals would try to bring guns in and they didn't want anyone shooting themselves in the foot or shooting their mouth off!

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

even if they could their shooting skills abandon them if someone is shooting back if they're not VERY HIGHLY TRAINED in a firefight situation ..

TOTAL BULL. You obviously don't know that most people with a carry license DO get training and DO practice regularly. If someone is trying to kill you with a gun, you will be trying your damned best to get them first. Skill or no skill, better to be able to shoot back and have a chance of hitting them than NO CHANCE AT ALL, besides, while you are shooting at the attacker, he will be tied down with your fire, backing off, rather than spraying the classroom killing the school kids. Just once show a little common sense.

I have a carry license dipshit .. I can give you a third eye at 40 yards OR TAKE THE SECOND BUTTON OFF YOUR SHIRT AT 300 YARDS .. accuracy isnt the issue - mental training and applying it is .. hard core breech and neutralize teams like SWAT or SEALS train more times a year than you have IQ points.. average pukes like you change dramatically when youre being shot at .. everything but your mouth and internet bravado ..

Aside being being a total bullshit liar, you're an idiot for suggesting that a person needs a level of skill and training impractical and unattainable to nearly all before they should arm themselves and fight back to save their life and those of children in a set of situations you cannot possible even anticipate! Congrats, Moron, you've just topped your own record for dumbest possible things said ever.

so why in hell does LAW ENFORCEMENT disagree with your stupid ass ...

gawd, RW's get dumber by the F'n second ... dipshit message board members know MUCH BETTER than the people that do it for a living.

go rub one off moron.

If you were full of any more crap, baby killer, it would be coming out of your eyes. You can't shoot, you don't even own a gun, and you'd be the first person to shit your pants if someone were shooting at you. Just because you're a coward, don't assume that everyone else is or needs the training of a SWAT team in order to carry a gun or come to the aide of civilians in every day life. People do it ALL THE TIME, you little filthy liar.

Our CCW class was a mandatory 10 hours of class and two hours of on range time. All but two hours of class was actually a waste of time.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

even if they could their shooting skills abandon them if someone is shooting back if they're not VERY HIGHLY TRAINED in a firefight situation ..

Ideally they will never have to.

But if it’s a choice between protecting the students with nothing and protecting them with a gun, what is more rational?

lock the classroom door and protect your students .. shootouts aint the Fn answer.

And when the shooter pulls the fire alarm?

now you get to teacher input ... make alarms accessable with keypads .. every teacher has a code assigned to them by school admin. enter the code the alarm goes off.

end of problem.

So what happens when there is a fire and teachers are busy in their classrooms unknowingly? If they are the only ones that could set off an alarm and the fire is quick spreading, it could also mean lives. If that's where we need to go, then just get rid of fire alarms and let people use their cell phone to notify the fire department.

You do realize that the school fire alarms do not notify the fire department of anything.

Also, there is not a single school that has ever burned in less than 30 minutes. They are built not to burn.

Our school's policy is to await verbal confirmation before exiting the building in case the alarm is to expose students to a shooter. No fire? No one leaves.

 

[toobfreak]

the first thing you need to do is read the entire thread and figure out what my position is ,,,

the second thing you need to do is try and keep up from now on before you begin to look really stupid ....

Boy! That sounds like a LOT OF WORK! I see you just circumvent your own advice and start off actually BEING stupid from the very start and leave all pretense of merely looking it, behind.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

i really don’t see the downside of allowing teachers or even mature students carrying concealed weapons at school. In the 18th and 19th century this was a common occurrence without any issue.

I keep getting told that we can’t trust our teachers with a firearm. That makes no sense. If we can’t trust our teachers to protect our children then how can we trust them to teach our children?

Just because someone can teach calculus does not mean that they can hit the broad side of a barn with a gun.

even if they could their shooting skills abandon them if someone is shooting back if they're not VERY HIGHLY TRAINED in a firefight situation ..

Ideally they will never have to.

But if it’s a choice between protecting the students with nothing and protecting them with a gun, what is more rational?

lock the classroom door and protect your students .. shootouts aint the Fn answer.

Correct, because an AR is no match for a door lock.

I would like to see video of someone trying to use an AR to shoot their way through a school door lock. My money is on the fact that it will not do any good, and take far too long.

Why do you think SWAT teams and the military use shotguns loaded with slugs to open doors?

 

[toobfreak]

TOTAL BULL. You obviously don't know that most people with a carry license DO get training and DO practice regularly. If someone is trying to kill you with a gun, you will be trying your damned best to get them first. Skill or no skill, better to be able to shoot back and have a chance of hitting them than NO CHANCE AT ALL, besides, while you are shooting at the attacker, he will be tied down with your fire, backing off, rather than spraying the classroom killing the school kids. Just once show a little common sense.

I have a carry license dipshit .. I can give you a third eye at 40 yards OR TAKE THE SECOND BUTTON OFF YOUR SHIRT AT 300 YARDS .. accuracy isnt the issue - mental training and applying it is .. hard core breech and neutralize teams like SWAT or SEALS train more times a year than you have IQ points.. average pukes like you change dramatically when youre being shot at .. everything but your mouth and internet bravado ..

Aside being being a total bullshit liar, you're an idiot for suggesting that a person needs a level of skill and training impractical and unattainable to nearly all before they should arm themselves and fight back to save their life and those of children in a set of situations you cannot possible even anticipate! Congrats, Moron, you've just topped your own record for dumbest possible things said ever.

so why in hell does LAW ENFORCEMENT disagree with your stupid ass ...

gawd, RW's get dumber by the F'n second ... dipshit message board members know MUCH BETTER than the people that do it for a living.

go rub one off moron.

If you were full of any more crap, baby killer, it would be coming out of your eyes. You can't shoot, you don't even own a gun, and you'd be the first person to shit your pants if someone were shooting at you. Just because you're a coward, don't assume that everyone else is or needs the training of a SWAT team in order to carry a gun or come to the aide of civilians in every day life. People do it ALL THE TIME, you little filthy liar.

Our CCW class was a mandatory 10 hours of class and two hours of on range time. All but two hours of class was actually a waste of time.

Right. I was trained by a Country Sheriff, but all the training in the world in class or on the range means relatively little until you come under actual live fire. That is where the real training begins.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Just because someone can teach calculus does not mean that they can hit the broad side of a barn with a gun.

even if they could their shooting skills abandon them if someone is shooting back if they're not VERY HIGHLY TRAINED in a firefight situation ..

Ideally they will never have to.

But if it’s a choice between protecting the students with nothing and protecting them with a gun, what is more rational?

lock the classroom door and protect your students .. shootouts aint the Fn answer.

Correct, because an AR is no match for a door lock.

I would like to see video of someone trying to use an AR to shoot their way through a school door lock. My money is on the fact that it will not do any good, and take far too long.

Why do you think SWAT teams and the military use shotguns loaded with slugs to open doors?

Because it's safer due to less ricochet. A good couple of shots will open that door right up.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

I have a carry license dipshit .. I can give you a third eye at 40 yards OR TAKE THE SECOND BUTTON OFF YOUR SHIRT AT 300 YARDS .. accuracy isnt the issue - mental training and applying it is .. hard core breech and neutralize teams like SWAT or SEALS train more times a year than you have IQ points.. average pukes like you change dramatically when youre being shot at .. everything but your mouth and internet bravado ..

Aside being being a total bullshit liar, you're an idiot for suggesting that a person needs a level of skill and training impractical and unattainable to nearly all before they should arm themselves and fight back to save their life and those of children in a set of situations you cannot possible even anticipate! Congrats, Moron, you've just topped your own record for dumbest possible things said ever.

so why in hell does LAW ENFORCEMENT disagree with your stupid ass ...

gawd, RW's get dumber by the F'n second ... dipshit message board members know MUCH BETTER than the people that do it for a living.

go rub one off moron.

If you were full of any more crap, baby killer, it would be coming out of your eyes. You can't shoot, you don't even own a gun, and you'd be the first person to shit your pants if someone were shooting at you. Just because you're a coward, don't assume that everyone else is or needs the training of a SWAT team in order to carry a gun or come to the aide of civilians in every day life. People do it ALL THE TIME, you little filthy liar.

Our CCW class was a mandatory 10 hours of class and two hours of on range time. All but two hours of class was actually a waste of time.

Right. I was trained by a Country Sheriff, but all the training in the world in class or on the range means relatively little until you come under actual live fire. That is where the real training begins.

And they tell you ahead of time that shooting at a human being that's shooting back is much different than shooting at cardboard when you have all the time in the world to take aim.

Police officers go through extensive firearm training and often miss their targets repeatedly in a real incident even at close range.

 

[Zoom-boing]

If only there were some kind of program that could coordinate efforts between the community and schools that bolster school safety and help protect our kids.

Oh wait.

"The National School Shield® program was introduced in December 2012 as a new initiative focused on improving school security in an effort to help prevent national tragedies at educational institutions in America. A National School Shield Task Force, led by former Congressman Asa Hutchinson, recruited a team of security experts and, in April 2013, issued an official report documenting a clear need to address school violence and recommendations on best practices in school security.

Per the published findings of the National School Shield® Task Force, there has been insufficient attention paid to school security needs in our nation. While there are numerous government agencies and programs that provide valuable school safety resources, there is a lack of coordination between the agencies resulting in gaps, duplication and inefficiencies. Furthermore, for schools wanting to comprehensively address school security matters, persistent funding challenges often prevent districts from implementing necessary changes and can even lead to the elimination of once successful school security programs."

National School Shield | About

Those NRA bastards.

 

[toobfreak]

Aside being being a total bullshit liar, you're an idiot for suggesting that a person needs a level of skill and training impractical and unattainable to nearly all before they should arm themselves and fight back to save their life and those of children in a set of situations you cannot possible even anticipate! Congrats, Moron, you've just topped your own record for dumbest possible things said ever.

so why in hell does LAW ENFORCEMENT disagree with your stupid ass ...

gawd, RW's get dumber by the F'n second ... dipshit message board members know MUCH BETTER than the people that do it for a living.

go rub one off moron.

If you were full of any more crap, baby killer, it would be coming out of your eyes. You can't shoot, you don't even own a gun, and you'd be the first person to shit your pants if someone were shooting at you. Just because you're a coward, don't assume that everyone else is or needs the training of a SWAT team in order to carry a gun or come to the aide of civilians in every day life. People do it ALL THE TIME, you little filthy liar.

Our CCW class was a mandatory 10 hours of class and two hours of on range time. All but two hours of class was actually a waste of time.

Right. I was trained by a Country Sheriff, but all the training in the world in class or on the range means relatively little until you come under actual live fire. That is where the real training begins.

And they tell you ahead of time that shooting at a human being that's shooting back is much different than shooting at cardboard when you have all the time in the world to take aim.

Police officers go through extensive firearm training and often miss their targets repeatedly in a real incident even at close range.

I'll never forget one good thing I was taught: That any time you hear a gun go off is a GOOD THING, because if you lived to hear it fire, that means you're still alive to shoot back!

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

If only there were some kind of program that could coordinate efforts between the community and schools that bolster school safety and help protect our kids.

Oh wait.

"The National School Shield® program was introduced in December 2012 as a new initiative focused on improving school security in an effort to help prevent national tragedies at educational institutions in America. A National School Shield Task Force, led by former Congressman Asa Hutchinson, recruited a team of security experts and, in April 2013, issued an official report documenting a clear need to address school violence and recommendations on best practices in school security.

Per the published findings of the National School Shield® Task Force, there has been insufficient attention paid to school security needs in our nation. While there are numerous government agencies and programs that provide valuable school safety resources, there is a lack of coordination between the agencies resulting in gaps, duplication and inefficiencies. Furthermore, for schools wanting to comprehensively address school security matters, persistent funding challenges often prevent districts from implementing necessary changes and can even lead to the elimination of once successful school security programs."

National School Shield | About

Those NRA bastards.

For the most part, schools are locally funded. Any school in the country could have created security measures to their liking. That's why these kids bitching about the shooting look foolish. This isn't a federal government issue--it's a local government issue. And if you scope out the news today, local governments are responding to this shooing and offering support for increased security before something like this happens.

 

[LuckyDuck]

i really don’t see the downside of allowing teachers or even mature students carrying concealed weapons at school. In the 18th and 19th century this was a common occurrence without any issue.

I keep getting told that we can’t trust our teachers with a firearm. That makes no sense. If we can’t trust our teachers to protect our children then how can we trust them to teach our children?

I don't see a problem with a teacher or other school administrators very good with a firearm, being armed. I don't believe the students should be allowed in school armed, especially male students. The male frontal lobe of the cerebral cortex (responsible for decision making, problem solving and impulse control) isn't fully developed and is considered by scientists to not be fully developed until the age of 25 years. I realize that our military enlists many young men prior to that age, but for many of them, their primary duty is to simply "obey orders," point your weapon at the enemy and shoot. If entry into the military was restricted to those 25 years or older, you would have trouble filling the ranks, as when you get older, your decision making tends to be far less impulsive.
If teachers prefer to not be armed, then I would strongly suggest volunteer military retirees. Military retirees like myself have time on our hands, are familiar and safe with weapons and would put ourselves in harms way to protect the kids.
There is also the need for metal-detectors.

 

[Nosmo King]

Which specific weapons are teachers supposed to carry? The discussion is surrounding concealable weapons. Pistols or revolvers. Attackers seem to prefer long guns, assault rifles.

If the pistol or revolver is deemed adequate defense for a classroom, why do some say they absolutely need an assault rifle? If indeed a pistol or revolver does provide adequate defense, what is the virtue of the assault rifle? Why is it necessary?

Or should teachers sling an assault rifle while conducting classroom activities? Would a teacher armed with a rifle be appropriate?

 

[toobfreak]

If only there were some kind of program that could coordinate efforts between the community and schools that bolster school safety and help protect our kids.

Oh wait.

"The National School Shield® program was introduced in December 2012 as a new initiative focused on improving school security in an effort to help prevent national tragedies at educational institutions in America. A National School Shield Task Force, led by former Congressman Asa Hutchinson, recruited a team of security experts and, in April 2013, issued an official report documenting a clear need to address school violence and recommendations on best practices in school security.

Per the published findings of the National School Shield® Task Force, there has been insufficient attention paid to school security needs in our nation. While there are numerous government agencies and programs that provide valuable school safety resources, there is a lack of coordination between the agencies resulting in gaps, duplication and inefficiencies. Furthermore, for schools wanting to comprehensively address school security matters, persistent funding challenges often prevent districts from implementing necessary changes and can even lead to the elimination of once successful school security programs."

National School Shield | About

Those NRA bastards.

For the most part, schools are locally funded. Any school in the country could have created security measures to their liking. That's why these kids bitching about the shooting look foolish. This isn't a federal government issue--it's a local government issue. And if you scope out the news today, local governments are responding to this shooing and offering support for increased security before something like this happens.

Right! Which is why this whole, national, Pavlovian effort to blame guns and "take it to Washington" waiting for them to pass a law or blame someone for supporting the 2nd Amendment is so full of dogcrap. Government CAUSES far more problems than it solves, and whatever solutions can be found, if any, in the interim all that matters right now is HOW ARE THE SCHOOLS GOING TO START PULLING THEIR WEIGHT and making child safety, REAL child safety a first priority?

 

[charwin95]

Even trained military and law enforcement panic in tense situations. Only 20% of the projectiles hit their in tented target.

Even trained law enforcement sometimes are not willing to stand in a gun battle just like this Deputy in Parkland Scot Peterson who resigned plus 3 others under investigations.

Stoneman Douglas cop resigns; sheriff says he should have 'killed the killer'

 

[Windparadox]

Why?Well, for starters when they are standing there, defenseless and the shooter opens up, they may want a weapon If there are teachers that cannot handle it, they won't be forced to carry a weapon.There are some in every school that want to carry a weapon. We should let them, as long as they know what they are doing with it.It doesn't matter that all the shooters have been males. The teacher is not going to be asked to engage in hand-to-hand combat. Just pull the trigger and kill the sob before he kills the students.

`
Confirmed. It's a low-life guy thing.
`

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

Citizens have the right to carry concealed firearms pursuant to the right of self-defense, not act in the capacity of ‘law enforcement’ or to otherwise ‘deter’ crime.

This is particularly true in a school situation.