am i doomed to hell?

[Theowl32]

According to the story some guy came to her window in the middle of the night claiming to be the angel Gabriel who told her she was chosen by God to give birth to the messiah, every young Jewish girls dream. The next thing you know she was pregnant. When asked how this happened, she replied, "I was never with a man. The angel Gabriel came to my window" , etc. Then her parents looked at each other in horror and distress that she was so dang gullible, yet what she believed came true.


Then there is the story about the Holy Spirit descending from heaven like a dove and resting upon Jesus after he was baptized by John, emerged from the waters, and "The heavens opened up to him" .

Jesus also instructed his disciples to just wait and not run their mouths or do anything until they received the holy Spirit and were armed with wisdom and power from above.


What does that tell you?

How is one born again if not by the power of the holy Spirit without any fleshy desire of a human father? Its not about reciting a few lines. Its about becoming a new creature.


If The son of God was conceived by the power of the holy Spirit without the fleshy desire of a human father, as a grown man, ( "Thou art my son; this day have I begotten thee") then the virgin birth has nothing to do with his mother or the birth of his physical body..

Ummm... no.

The Bible is full of words about transformation. In fact that is what is meant by repent.

But you are conflating the instructions to transform ourselves with the divinity of Christ. Everyone is being pruned or transformed. Some take to it faster than others, some don’t take to it at all, but the ones who believe John 3:16 have an advantage and find peace through the storm during their journey.

You clearly do not believe in the supernatural, so stop presenting yourself like you do.

No one has been instructed to "transform ourselves with the divinity of Christ." whatever the hell that means, whoever or whatever the hell ourselves is. You are supposed to obey the command of God and teaching of Jesus to conform to the instruction in divine law to become holy as God is holy and stop doing stupid things like praying to a block of wood, worshipping a nonexistent god made out of solid cheese, carved in the form, shape, and likeness of a human being, or eating a cracker for spiritual life with some sour wine, mixed with gall, to wash it all down.

No one can transform themselves into being begotten by God. Some things just can't be faked. People tend to be dumb. Look at yourself.

You have only succeeded in transforming yourself from a clueless doofus into a magnificent pot bellied schmuck.....

....and this little piggy goes we we we.

nice going.

What do you think repent means? It means to change your ways. The Bible is full of words of transformation. It’s almost like you are trying to discourage people from changing their ways. That sounds exactly like something Satan would be arguing.

As usual you have it backwards. I am encouraging people to change their ways and conform to the image of Christ. Do you have a problem with that? I am discouraging people from doing this:




These are young minds in hell being traumatized by demons. Many will never recover.

You seek to subordinate religion. Plain and simple.

I believe it is rather important to know the history of the Church or how the Bible itself was put together. There are believers that seemingly think the Church almost didn't exist from the end Acts to when the reformation happened.

I ran into a fundamentalist once and he emphatically told me that if it is not written in the King James Bible, that it was not of God. To which I simply asked him to show me the chapter and verse of his claim. Not in there and he just stared silently at me. I pointed that he had just said if it is not in the King James Bible that it is not of God and what he said was not written in there. I asked what does that mean, about your claim based on your testimony.

I then asked unless it did not occur to God to place it on the hearts of his prophets or the disciple who wrote Revelations, that the ONLY TRUE WORD OF GOD was going to be written in the year 1611. The original King James version had the 7 books of the deuterocanonicals.

They were not taken out of the King James until late in the 19th century. Which means to many the only true version of the word is the revision of the King James in the 19th century.

Of course they still have a hard time explaining Hebrews 11:35 which refers to something described in 2nd Maccabees chapter 7.

Then we have people I suppose that ignore Paul where he says in several places that we are to hold fast to the traditions as they are passed on to us through the Church, which according to 1st Timothy 3:15 is the pillar of truth.

History is a hard thing to accept, but it is not wise to ignore it either.

 

[hobelim]

No one has been instructed to "transform ourselves with the divinity of Christ." whatever the hell that means, whoever or whatever the hell ourselves is

Your demonic avatar is fitting.
.if you can understand the begettal process, you can understand how humans are to BECOME literal Sons of God.

We (those who are baptized in the faith), receive the Holy Spirit. This is the BEGINNING of the BORN AGAIN process that occurs at His Return.

It is Christ's Spirit IN US that TRANSFORMS us.

Sure, if it is a spirit of Christ within, you will be transformed from a quivering blob of mud into the image and likeness of the son of God. You will be transformed. You do not, as ding said, "Transform ourselves", except if you have lost your mind to the delusions of an unrestrained imagination.

Aside from that if you are preaching a false Jesus and a false gospel of a false salvation that openly defies the law of God and brazenly desecrates the teachings of Jesus you will be transformed from a quivering blob of mud into an insignificant stain on the butt of a foul and loathsome self negating multiplicity that is slowly disintegrating into the nothingness from which it came.

You dont believe that Jesus was anything more than an ordinary man. Right?

So why should you conform to Jesus?

But putting that aside, apparently the Bible does speak about transformation. Right?

No, you are wrong. You and I have been through this before. Have you forgotten ? Again?

Jesus was not an ordinary man, he was singled out by God to convey the hidden meaning behind all of his commands, something no other man could possibly do.

If a person is interested in possessing firsthand knowledge of the exalted experience of life that Jesus died trying to teach other people to attain they should conform to the way that Jesus taught to understand the figurative language and comply with the demands of the hidden subjects of the law, the only way that fulfills the promise of eternal life in heaven, the highest realm of conscious existence, with God on earth for every single person who acts on it.

A chameleon that changes colors is still a chameleon.

You are not in the highest realm if you are simply changing from a wastrel to an idolator. That may be you transforming yourself like changing clothes but you still remain a sinful creature bound to the world below by you refusal to seek higher understanding beyond your tiny sphere of comfortability.

If you were transformed by applying the teachings of Jesus to your own life, you would be transformed by the life in his words and ascend above the world of make believe . You would not be confessing to be a sinner pretending to be saved. You were just hoodwinked by an ancient con and are too embarrassed to admit it even though its as obvious as a white boulder splattered with blood in the middle of a plowed field

You cannot transform "ourselves", into a child of God through deceit or wishful thinking which still begs the question,

How many of you are there?

There must be a gazillion conflicting voices in your head to blind you to the glaring absurdity of professing to believe that God became a human being that became a cheap snack food that solves the worlds problems forever and ever amen ,if you would only get down on your knees, close you eyes, open your mouth, strain at a gnat, swallow a camel and believe.

If you ever get tired of shadow boxing, all you have to do is stop.

 

[Theowl32]

No one has been instructed to "transform ourselves with the divinity of Christ." whatever the hell that means, whoever or whatever the hell ourselves is

Your demonic avatar is fitting.
.if you can understand the begettal process, you can understand how humans are to BECOME literal Sons of God.

We (those who are baptized in the faith), receive the Holy Spirit. This is the BEGINNING of the BORN AGAIN process that occurs at His Return.

It is Christ's Spirit IN US that TRANSFORMS us.

Sure, if it is a spirit of Christ within, you will be transformed from a quivering blob of mud into the image and likeness of the son of God. You will be transformed. You do not, as ding said, "Transform ourselves", except if you have lost your mind to the delusions of an unrestrained imagination.

Aside from that if you are preaching a false Jesus and a false gospel of a false salvation that openly defies the law of God and brazenly desecrates the teachings of Jesus you will be transformed from a quivering blob of mud into an insignificant stain on the butt of a foul and loathsome self negating multiplicity that is slowly disintegrating into the nothingness from which it came.

You dont believe that Jesus was anything more than an ordinary man. Right?

So why should you conform to Jesus?

But putting that aside, apparently the Bible does speak about transformation. Right?

No, you are wrong. You and I have been through this before. Have you forgotten ? Again?

Jesus was not an ordinary man, he was singled out by God to convey the hidden meaning behind all of his commands, something no other man could possibly do.

If a person is interested in possessing firsthand knowledge of the exalted experience of life that Jesus died trying to teach other people to attain they should conform to the way that Jesus taught to understand the figurative language and comply with the demands of the hidden subjects of the law, the only way that fulfills the promise of eternal life in heaven, the highest realm of conscious existence, with God on earth for every single person who acts on it.

A chameleon that changes colors is still a chameleon.

You are not in the highest realm if you are simply changing from a wastrel to an idolator. That may be you transforming yourself like changing clothes but you still remain a sinful creature bound to the world below by you refusal to seek higher understanding beyond your tiny sphere of comfortability.

If you were transformed by applying the teachings of Jesus to your own life, you would be transformed by the life in his words and ascend above the world of make believe . You would not be confessing to be a sinner pretending to be saved.

You cannot transform "ourselves", into a child of God through deceit which still begs the question,

How many of you are there?

Do you know how the Bible was put together?

You seem like a righteous person.

Do you feel that it matters how it was put together?

Did Jesus say not all those who say Lord Lord will enter into the kingdom but only those who do the will of my Father? What does that mean?

When Jesus says blessed are the merciful, for they shall have mercy. What does that mean?

When Jesus says in John 5:29

Those who did the good deeds to a resurrection of life, those who committed the evil deeds to a resurrection of judgment.

What does that mean?

How about in Romans where it says
Romans 2:6
God "will repay each person according to what they have done."

Did Jesus say in Mathew 25:31-46 that He will separate the goat from the sheep and those who fed the hungry and clothe the naked etc that they would enter? Who are those true righteous that will ask Him when did we ever do that for you? Most Christians know that verse, so who will be asking that I wonder. Cause it says there will be those that don't know they are serving Christ and so therefore it does not seem to matter much whether you know you are serving Him or not. Cause they didn't.

How about in all FOUR GOSPELS where he announces THIS IS MY BODY. Does it mean that it isn't? If the Spirit makes it so, is it so?

If something is spiritual does that make it symbolic or real? Does He say that MY BODY IS REAL FOOD AND MY BLOOD IS REAL DRINK? Does He say that in John chapter 6?

Does Paul write in Corinthians 10 that we are not idolators for participating in the Body and Blood as he blesses it?

Does it say we are to hold fast to the traditions?

Do you do that?

Are you...a sinner?

 

[hobelim]

No one has been instructed to "transform ourselves with the divinity of Christ." whatever the hell that means, whoever or whatever the hell ourselves is

Your demonic avatar is fitting.
.if you can understand the begettal process, you can understand how humans are to BECOME literal Sons of God.

We (those who are baptized in the faith), receive the Holy Spirit. This is the BEGINNING of the BORN AGAIN process that occurs at His Return.

It is Christ's Spirit IN US that TRANSFORMS us.

Sure, if it is a spirit of Christ within, you will be transformed from a quivering blob of mud into the image and likeness of the son of God. You will be transformed. You do not, as ding said, "Transform ourselves", except if you have lost your mind to the delusions of an unrestrained imagination.

Aside from that if you are preaching a false Jesus and a false gospel of a false salvation that openly defies the law of God and brazenly desecrates the teachings of Jesus you will be transformed from a quivering blob of mud into an insignificant stain on the butt of a foul and loathsome self negating multiplicity that is slowly disintegrating into the nothingness from which it came.

You dont believe that Jesus was anything more than an ordinary man. Right?

So why should you conform to Jesus?

But putting that aside, apparently the Bible does speak about transformation. Right?

No, you are wrong. You and I have been through this before. Have you forgotten ? Again?

Jesus was not an ordinary man, he was singled out by God to convey the hidden meaning behind all of his commands, something no other man could possibly do.

If a person is interested in possessing firsthand knowledge of the exalted experience of life that Jesus died trying to teach other people to attain they should conform to the way that Jesus taught to understand the figurative language and comply with the demands of the hidden subjects of the law, the only way that fulfills the promise of eternal life in heaven, the highest realm of conscious existence, with God on earth for every single person who acts on it.

A chameleon that changes colors is still a chameleon.

You are not in the highest realm if you are simply changing from a wastrel to an idolator. That may be you transforming yourself like changing clothes but you still remain a sinful creature bound to the world below by you refusal to seek higher understanding beyond your tiny sphere of comfortability.

If you were transformed by applying the teachings of Jesus to your own life, you would be transformed by the life in his words and ascend above the world of make believe . You would not be confessing to be a sinner pretending to be saved.

You cannot transform "ourselves", into a child of God through deceit which still begs the question,

How many of you are there?

Do you know how the Bible was put together?

You seem like a righteous person.

Do you feel that it matters how it was put together?

Did Jesus say not all those who say Lord Lord will enter into the kingdom but only those who do the will of my Father? What does that mean?

When Jesus says blessed are the merciful, for they shall have mercy. What does that mean?

When Jesus says in John 5:29

Those who did the good deeds to a resurrection of life, those who committed the evil deeds to a resurrection of judgment.

What does that mean?

How about in Romans where it says
Romans 2:6
God "will repay each person according to what they have done."

Did Jesus say in Mathew 25:31-46 that He will separate the goat from the sheep and those who fed the hungry and clothe the naked etc that they would enter? Who are those true righteous that will ask Him when did we ever do that for you? Most Christians know that verse, so who will be asking that I wonder. Cause it says there will be those that don't know they are serving Christ and so therefore it does not seem to matter much whether you know you are serving Him or not. Cause they didn't.

How about in all FOUR GOSPELS where he announces THIS IS MY BODY. Does it mean that it isn't? If the Spirit makes it so, is it so?

If something is spiritual does that make it symbolic or real? Does He say that MY BODY IS REAL FOOD AND MY BLOOD IS REAL DRINK? Does He say that in John chapter 6?

Does Paul write in Corinthians 10 that we are not idolators for participating in the Body and Blood as he blesses it?

Does it say we are to hold fast to the traditions?

Do you do that?

Are you...a sinner?

You raised a lot of good questions and I have good answers for every single one but not a lot of time today, and aside from that, I charge by the hour.

I tell you what. Pick three of the ones that you most want answered, the three that you have come to believe are the most fundamentally foundational to salvation.

If you are satisfied with my answers, I'll send you the bill.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

But but, guys...the Bible has objective truth and objective morality! Why can't you guys agree on it?

 

[ding]

Your demonic avatar is fitting.
.if you can understand the begettal process, you can understand how humans are to BECOME literal Sons of God.

We (those who are baptized in the faith), receive the Holy Spirit. This is the BEGINNING of the BORN AGAIN process that occurs at His Return.

It is Christ's Spirit IN US that TRANSFORMS us.

Sure, if it is a spirit of Christ within, you will be transformed from a quivering blob of mud into the image and likeness of the son of God. You will be transformed. You do not, as ding said, "Transform ourselves", except if you have lost your mind to the delusions of an unrestrained imagination.

Aside from that if you are preaching a false Jesus and a false gospel of a false salvation that openly defies the law of God and brazenly desecrates the teachings of Jesus you will be transformed from a quivering blob of mud into an insignificant stain on the butt of a foul and loathsome self negating multiplicity that is slowly disintegrating into the nothingness from which it came.

You dont believe that Jesus was anything more than an ordinary man. Right?

So why should you conform to Jesus?

But putting that aside, apparently the Bible does speak about transformation. Right?

No, you are wrong. You and I have been through this before. Have you forgotten ? Again?

Jesus was not an ordinary man, he was singled out by God to convey the hidden meaning behind all of his commands, something no other man could possibly do.

If a person is interested in possessing firsthand knowledge of the exalted experience of life that Jesus died trying to teach other people to attain they should conform to the way that Jesus taught to understand the figurative language and comply with the demands of the hidden subjects of the law, the only way that fulfills the promise of eternal life in heaven, the highest realm of conscious existence, with God on earth for every single person who acts on it.

A chameleon that changes colors is still a chameleon.

You are not in the highest realm if you are simply changing from a wastrel to an idolator. That may be you transforming yourself like changing clothes but you still remain a sinful creature bound to the world below by you refusal to seek higher understanding beyond your tiny sphere of comfortability.

If you were transformed by applying the teachings of Jesus to your own life, you would be transformed by the life in his words and ascend above the world of make believe . You would not be confessing to be a sinner pretending to be saved.

You cannot transform "ourselves", into a child of God through deceit which still begs the question,

How many of you are there?

Do you know how the Bible was put together?

You seem like a righteous person.

Do you feel that it matters how it was put together?

Did Jesus say not all those who say Lord Lord will enter into the kingdom but only those who do the will of my Father? What does that mean?

When Jesus says blessed are the merciful, for they shall have mercy. What does that mean?

When Jesus says in John 5:29

Those who did the good deeds to a resurrection of life, those who committed the evil deeds to a resurrection of judgment.

What does that mean?

How about in Romans where it says
Romans 2:6
God "will repay each person according to what they have done."

Did Jesus say in Mathew 25:31-46 that He will separate the goat from the sheep and those who fed the hungry and clothe the naked etc that they would enter? Who are those true righteous that will ask Him when did we ever do that for you? Most Christians know that verse, so who will be asking that I wonder. Cause it says there will be those that don't know they are serving Christ and so therefore it does not seem to matter much whether you know you are serving Him or not. Cause they didn't.

How about in all FOUR GOSPELS where he announces THIS IS MY BODY. Does it mean that it isn't? If the Spirit makes it so, is it so?

If something is spiritual does that make it symbolic or real? Does He say that MY BODY IS REAL FOOD AND MY BLOOD IS REAL DRINK? Does He say that in John chapter 6?

Does Paul write in Corinthians 10 that we are not idolators for participating in the Body and Blood as he blesses it?

Does it say we are to hold fast to the traditions?

Do you do that?

Are you...a sinner?

You raised a lot of good questions and I have good answers for every single one but not a lot of time today, and aside from that, I charge by the hour.

I tell you what. Pick three of the ones that you most want answered, the three that you have come to believe are the most fundamentally foundational to salvation.

If you are satisfied with my answers, I'll send you the bill.

I don’t believe you do have good answers.

I believe he has exposed your deception in the nicest possible way.

 

[ding]

But but, guys...the Bible has objective truth and objective morality! Why can't you guys agree on it?

You can’t codify the natural law any more concisely or accurately than do unto others as you would have them do unto you.

 

[ding]

No one has been instructed to "transform ourselves with the divinity of Christ." whatever the hell that means, whoever or whatever the hell ourselves is

Your demonic avatar is fitting.
.if you can understand the begettal process, you can understand how humans are to BECOME literal Sons of God.

We (those who are baptized in the faith), receive the Holy Spirit. This is the BEGINNING of the BORN AGAIN process that occurs at His Return.

It is Christ's Spirit IN US that TRANSFORMS us.

Sure, if it is a spirit of Christ within, you will be transformed from a quivering blob of mud into the image and likeness of the son of God. You will be transformed. You do not, as ding said, "Transform ourselves", except if you have lost your mind to the delusions of an unrestrained imagination.

Aside from that if you are preaching a false Jesus and a false gospel of a false salvation that openly defies the law of God and brazenly desecrates the teachings of Jesus you will be transformed from a quivering blob of mud into an insignificant stain on the butt of a foul and loathsome self negating multiplicity that is slowly disintegrating into the nothingness from which it came.

You dont believe that Jesus was anything more than an ordinary man. Right?

So why should you conform to Jesus?

But putting that aside, apparently the Bible does speak about transformation. Right?

No, you are wrong. You and I have been through this before. Have you forgotten ? Again?

Jesus was not an ordinary man, he was singled out by God to convey the hidden meaning behind all of his commands, something no other man could possibly do.

If a person is interested in possessing firsthand knowledge of the exalted experience of life that Jesus died trying to teach other people to attain they should conform to the way that Jesus taught to understand the figurative language and comply with the demands of the hidden subjects of the law, the only way that fulfills the promise of eternal life in heaven, the highest realm of conscious existence, with God on earth for every single person who acts on it.

A chameleon that changes colors is still a chameleon.

You are not in the highest realm if you are simply changing from a wastrel to an idolator. That may be you transforming yourself like changing clothes but you still remain a sinful creature bound to the world below by you refusal to seek higher understanding beyond your tiny sphere of comfortability.

If you were transformed by applying the teachings of Jesus to your own life, you would be transformed by the life in his words and ascend above the world of make believe . You would not be confessing to be a sinner pretending to be saved. You were just hoodwinked by an ancient con and are too embarrassed to admit it even though its as obvious as a white boulder splattered with blood in the middle of a plowed field

You cannot transform "ourselves", into a child of God through deceit or wishful thinking which still begs the question,

How many of you are there?

There must be a gazillion conflicting voices in your head to blind you to the glaring absurdity of professing to believe that God became a human being that became a cheap snack food that solves the worlds problems forever and ever amen ,if you would only get down on your knees, close you eyes, open your mouth, strain at a gnat, swallow a camel and believe.

If you ever get tired of shadow boxing, all you have to do is stop.

You are quibbling over the word ordinary?

You believe Jesus was a man. Right?

You don’t believe he performed any miracles. Right?

You don’t believe he rose from the dead. Right?

So by elevating him to more than a man you are guilty of idolatry. I don’t have that problem.

As for me being transformed, I’m a sinner. I probably will always be a sinner. You on the other hand claim otherwise. You claim to be on the highest level. You claim to be better than everyone else. I wouldn’t dare make that claim. There’s nothing special about me.

But he is transforming me on my journey. He is transforming everyone. Even the people that don’t know it or believe it.

 

[Mindful]

No one has been instructed to "transform ourselves with the divinity of Christ." whatever the hell that means, whoever or whatever the hell ourselves is

Your demonic avatar is fitting.
.if you can understand the begettal process, you can understand how humans are to BECOME literal Sons of God.

We (those who are baptized in the faith), receive the Holy Spirit. This is the BEGINNING of the BORN AGAIN process that occurs at His Return.

It is Christ's Spirit IN US that TRANSFORMS us.

Sure, if it is a spirit of Christ within, you will be transformed from a quivering blob of mud into the image and likeness of the son of God. You will be transformed. You do not, as ding said, "Transform ourselves", except if you have lost your mind to the delusions of an unrestrained imagination.

Aside from that if you are preaching a false Jesus and a false gospel of a false salvation that openly defies the law of God and brazenly desecrates the teachings of Jesus you will be transformed from a quivering blob of mud into an insignificant stain on the butt of a foul and loathsome self negating multiplicity that is slowly disintegrating into the nothingness from which it came.

You dont believe that Jesus was anything more than an ordinary man. Right?

So why should you conform to Jesus?

But putting that aside, apparently the Bible does speak about transformation. Right?

No, you are wrong. You and I have been through this before. Have you forgotten ? Again?

Jesus was not an ordinary man, he was singled out by God to convey the hidden meaning behind all of his commands, something no other man could possibly do.

If a person is interested in possessing firsthand knowledge of the exalted experience of life that Jesus died trying to teach other people to attain they should conform to the way that Jesus taught to understand the figurative language and comply with the demands of the hidden subjects of the law, the only way that fulfills the promise of eternal life in heaven, the highest realm of conscious existence, with God on earth for every single person who acts on it.

A chameleon that changes colors is still a chameleon.

You are not in the highest realm if you are simply changing from a wastrel to an idolator. That may be you transforming yourself like changing clothes but you still remain a sinful creature bound to the world below by you refusal to seek higher understanding beyond your tiny sphere of comfortability.

If you were transformed by applying the teachings of Jesus to your own life, you would be transformed by the life in his words and ascend above the world of make believe . You would not be confessing to be a sinner pretending to be saved. You were just hoodwinked by an ancient con and are too embarrassed to admit it even though its as obvious as a white boulder splattered with blood in the middle of a plowed field

You cannot transform "ourselves", into a child of God through deceit or wishful thinking which still begs the question,

How many of you are there?

There must be a gazillion conflicting voices in your head to blind you to the glaring absurdity of professing to believe that God became a human being that became a cheap snack food that solves the worlds problems forever and ever amen ,if you would only get down on your knees, close you eyes, open your mouth, strain at a gnat, swallow a camel and believe.

If you ever get tired of shadow boxing, all you have to do is stop.

You are quibbling over the word ordinary?

You believe Jesus was a man. Right?

You don’t believe he performed any miracles. Right?

You don’t believe he rose from the dead. Right?

So by elevating him to more than a man you are guilty of idolatry. I don’t have that problem.

As for me being transformed, I’m a sinner. I probably will always be a sinner. You on the other hand claim otherwise. You claim to be on the highest level. You claim to be better than everyone else. I wouldn’t dare make that claim. There’s nothing special about me.

But he is transforming me on my journey. He is transforming everyone. Even the people that don’t know it or believe it.

You're just doomed, Ding.

For the sin of equivocation.

 

[hobelim]

Did Jesus say in Mathew 25:31-46 that He will separate the goat from the sheep and those who fed the hungry and clothe the naked etc that they would enter? Who are those true righteous that will ask Him when did we ever do that for you? Most Christians know that verse, so who will be asking that I wonder. Cause it says there will be those that don't know they are serving Christ and so therefore it does not seem to matter much whether you know you are serving Him or not. Cause they didn't.

Apparently if many who didn't know they were serving Christ will rise to life when he comes then its the ones who claim to know and serve Christ but don't who will not. So you are right, it doesn't matter if you know that you are serving Christ or not, it matters if you are.

seems like Jesus would praise an atheist who doesn't swallow anything without thinking and the we that ding mentions will be condemned

How about in all FOUR GOSPELS where he announces THIS IS MY BODY. Does it mean that it isn't? If the Spirit makes it so, is it so?

If something is spiritual does that make it symbolic or real? Does He say that MY BODY IS REAL FOOD AND MY BLOOD IS REAL DRINK? Does He say that in John chapter 6?

You are wrong. Unlike the other three gospels the only mention of flesh and blood in the gospel of John is before the last supper and the only one that Jesus gave bread to during the last supper was Judas as a way for Jesus to identify his betrayer to the others.

And as soon as Judas received the bread, Satan entered him. This is no small point


As far as MY BODY IS REAL FOOD AND MY BLOOD IS REAL DRINK, Jesus was alluding to Isaiah 55:1 where the prophet clearly establishes that food is metaphor words, REAL FOOD that satisfies.


"Come , all of you who thirst, Come to the waters; and you without money come, and eat! Come buy wine and milk with money and without cost! Why spend money on that which is not bread, and your labor on that which does not satisfy? Listen carefully to Me, and eat what is good, and your soul will delight in the richest of foods.…"


In John 6:63 Jesus clearly explains that flesh was a metaphor for words that are both spirit and life and in John 6:68 the disciples who stayed with him confirmed their belief when Jesus asked if they were going to leave him too..

"Lord to whom shall we go? Your words are words of eternal life. We have faith and know that you are the Holy One of God."

Does it say we are to hold fast to the traditions?

Do you do that?

Are you...a sinner?

I would never set aside the law of God to maintain your traditions.

I always do exactly as God commands.

 

[hobelim]

You are quibbling over the word ordinary?

You believe Jesus was a man. Right? You don’t believe he performed any miracles. Right?You don’t believe he rose from the dead. Right?

So by elevating him to more than a man you are guilty of idolatry. I don’t have that problem.

I told you already what I believe, many times. Still having trouble retaining information? Thats a shame.

Why do you lie?

As for me being transformed, I’m a sinner. I probably will always be a sinner. You on the other hand claim otherwise. You claim to be on the highest level. You claim to be better than everyone else. I wouldn’t dare make that claim. There’s nothing special about me.

Alrighty then, You probably will always be a sinner. I believe you. You are very persuasive and obviously committed to sin. Praise Jesus ! I can see! but even if I was blind I still would know a dog fart when I smelled one. The evidence is overwhelming.

still, I remember hearing somewhere that the wages of sin are death. I don't think thats synonymous with salvation or eternal life but you are entitled to your belief. Enjoy!


It is truly inspiring to see the many wonderful things "transforming ourselves" has done for ya'll.



See? thats me telling you in the nicest possible way that you are a fucking idiot.

 

[TNHarley]

Surprised by the OP.

Now, on to the question. First of all from a spiritual standpoint and eternal standpoint, to be enlightened by truth, we need to deal with and accept the fact that I crucified Christ. Not the Jews, not the Romans. Sin crucifies Christ (yes present tense.)

Every time we sin, we send Christ to the cross. So, it was not YOUR ancestors. That is the worldly way to see it and without the Holy Spirit, it is impossible to see.

I run the risk, which is why I believe I am damned, is Hebrews 6:4-6 certainly applies to me. Cannot get past that I have been enlightened. I believe Jesus is Lord. Yet, I am guilty of willful sin. Cannot make any excuses.

And no Mary was not raped. Her words, let it done according to your will. Where Adam and Eve chose their own will over that of the Lord, Mary said yes to the Lord.

God did not "become merciful." God is. Which is why HE told Moses to tell the people that I AM is here.

If your heart is hardened TN and unwilling to receive the Truth from the Holy Spirit, then yes. Eternal hell is our reward. I am thinking there is a reason you asked the question and there is a spiritual war going on inside.

Consider Christ. Not from a loser like me. Consider what it may be to be renewed by HIS grace.

Consider some testimony by Saints.

Like the Max Kolbe Story.

There is no spiritual war going on.
I just tried to be a jackass while mocking gods ignorant mindset of "sins of the father"
Nice post though owl!

 

[Theowl32]

Early Christians wrote about him, Jewish historians wrote about him and secular historians wrote about him.

People wrote about Captain Kirk and Indiana Jones... did that make them real?

Actually, there are no writings about Jesus before the Third Century, and most of the attributions like Tacitus and Josephus are suspected of being later writers inserting text. (As all texts were hand copied before the invention of printing presses.)

For instance, Tacitus says Nero blamed the Christians for the Great Fire in Rome. But this is not mentioned in Suetonius and Dio Cassius. Kind of an important detail to miss, don't you think?

Further, when Pliny the Younger wrote Emperor Trajan for instructions on what to do with Christians when he caught them. (Christians not necessarily meaning followers of Jesus) Trajan recommends being lenient with them. Really? The guys who started the Great fire? This is like someone in 2040 being lenient with ISIS members.

Did He Or Didn't He? Jewish Views of the Resurrection of Jesus • Jews for Jesus

Interesting too in regards to history, that largely goes unacknowledged. It is a fact that in the year 70AD, the Emperor Vespasian ordered the destruction of the Temple. He also named the land Palestine. Yes, he was the one.

The interesting thing about that to me is this. According to the Gospel, when Pilate presented Jesus to the Jewish leaders, and asked...is He not your king? They responded, WE HAVE NO KING BUT CAESAR.
John 19:15
"Shall I crucify your king?" Pilate asked. "We have no king but Caesar," the chief priests answered.

Here is the interesting thing. The last Emperor that was a Caesar was actually Emperor Nero. He died in in 68AD. The year 69AD according to historians is referred to as the year OF THE FOUR EMPERORS.

Galba
Otho
Vitellius
Vespasian

Since there was no Caesar, there was an obvious struggle for power. I often wondered about the writing in the Gospel about the FOUR HORSEMEN. I wonder if John was writing about this, cause the last one Vespasian, the judgement of Israel came. Their sacred Temple was torn down completely. They lost their city. When it says that the last horseman came and hell came with him, I wonder. The thing that stands out to me is this. The Jews declared that we have no King but Caesar. It is almost as though God allowed them to have their land, until the last Caesar died. He then rendered judgement. That is what it sure seems like to me.

All throughout history, there are precursors for the future revelations anyway. It is difficult to see at the time, but sometimes when we look back we can see interesting details.

As far as how the Bible itself was put together and cannon was made, another key moment in history was the Council of Nicea. That took place in 325AD and it was really under the direction of Emperor Constantine, who had summoned Pope Sylvester I. There was a great schism going on and it had to do with the nature of Christ. The debate we seem to be having.

Arianism was on the rise and it stated that Christ was NOT GOD and that He was a "creature" of the Father.



One of the legends from that meeting, was Saint Nicholas was there. Yes, that same Saint Nicholas....that was replaced with a fat guy and reindeer. Anyway, the legend goes that he got up while Arius was arguing that Jesus was not equal to God, walked over to him and slapped him across his face.

Anyway, the other thing that came out after the Council of Nicea, other than the Nicene Creed, and establishment that Jesus is equal to God, and is indeed the second person of the Trinity, but that a cannon was being established.

Until then there was no Bible if you will. No dogma established. It was not until later that century under other councils did the Bible become established.

BTW, the interesting way in which Constantine came to power is another interesting story that many do not know. Cause, like I said. It seems to many that there was no Christian history from the end of Acts to the Reformation.

How much has Christianity been poisoned by such a notion I wonder. I think it is rather clear that it is been greatly poisoned. Like from that gentleman that insisted that the ONLY TRUE WORD was from the King James Bible, which would have meant to him the revised version of the King James Bible, since the original one, made in 1611, had those 7 books that many call apocryphal writings.

 

[hobelim]

I don’t have anything backwards.

lol....there there... don't take it too hard. You are what you is.

You were born in a house full of pain. You were trained not to spit in the fan. You were told what to do by the man. You were broken by trained personnel. You were fitted with collar and chain........

 

[Mindful]

Early Christians wrote about him, Jewish historians wrote about him and secular historians wrote about him.

People wrote about Captain Kirk and Indiana Jones... did that make them real?

Actually, there are no writings about Jesus before the Third Century, and most of the attributions like Tacitus and Josephus are suspected of being later writers inserting text. (As all texts were hand copied before the invention of printing presses.)

For instance, Tacitus says Nero blamed the Christians for the Great Fire in Rome. But this is not mentioned in Suetonius and Dio Cassius. Kind of an important detail to miss, don't you think?

Further, when Pliny the Younger wrote Emperor Trajan for instructions on what to do with Christians when he caught them. (Christians not necessarily meaning followers of Jesus) Trajan recommends being lenient with them. Really? The guys who started the Great fire? This is like someone in 2040 being lenient with ISIS members.

Did He Or Didn't He? Jewish Views of the Resurrection of Jesus • Jews for Jesus

Interesting too in regards to history, that largely goes unacknowledged. It is a fact that in the year 70AD, the Emperor Vespasian ordered the destruction of the Temple. He also named the land Palestine. Yes, he was the one.

The interesting thing about that to me is this. According to the Gospel, when Pilate presented Jesus to the Jewish leaders, and asked...is He not your king? They responded, WE HAVE NO KING BUT CAESAR.
John 19:15
"Shall I crucify your king?" Pilate asked. "We have no king but Caesar," the chief priests answered.

Here is the interesting thing. The last Emperor that was a Caesar was actually Emperor Nero. He died in in 68AD. The year 69AD according to historians is referred to as the year OF THE FOUR EMPERORS.

Galba
Otho
Vitellius
Vespasian

Since there was no Caesar, there was an obvious struggle for power. I often wondered about the writing in the Gospel about the FOUR HORSEMEN. I wonder if John was writing about this, cause the last one Vespasian, the judgement of Israel came. Their sacred Temple was torn down completely. They lost their city. When it says that the last horseman came and hell came with him, I wonder. The thing that stands out to me is this. The Jews declared that we have no King but Caesar. It is almost as though God allowed them to have their land, until the last Caesar died. He then rendered judgement. That is what it sure seems like to me.

All throughout history, there are precursors for the future revelations anyway. It is difficult to see at the time, but sometimes when we look back we can see interesting details.

As far as how the Bible itself was put together and cannon was made, another key moment in history was the Council of Nicea. That took place in 325AD and it was really under the direction of Emperor Constantine, who had summoned Pope Sylvester I. There was a great schism going on and it had to do with the nature of Christ. The debate we seem to be having.

Arianism was on the rise and it stated that Christ was NOT GOD and that He was a "creature" of the Father.



One of the legends from that meeting, was Saint Nicholas was there. Yes, that same Saint Nicholas....that was replaced with a fat guy and reindeer. Anyway, the legend goes that he got up while Arius was arguing that Jesus was not equal to God, walked over to him and slapped him across his face.

Anyway, the other thing that came out after the Council of Nicea, other than the Nicene Creed, and establishment that Jesus is equal to God, and is indeed the second person of the Trinity, but that a cannon was being established.

Until then there was no Bible if you will. No dogma established. It was not until later that century under other councils did the Bible become established.

BTW, the interesting way in which Constantine came to power is another interesting story that many do not know. Cause, like I said. It seems to many that there was no Christian history from the end of Acts to the Reformation.

How much has Christianity been poisoned by such a notion I wonder. I think it is rather clear that it is been greatly poisoned. Like from that gentleman that insisted that the ONLY TRUE WORD was from the King James Bible, which would have meant to him the revised version of the King James Bible, since the original one, made in 1611, had those 7 books that many call apocryphal writings.

I've read the Gospels. As a scholarly exercise.

And it seems to me, they contradict themselves.

 

[Theowl32]

Early Christians wrote about him, Jewish historians wrote about him and secular historians wrote about him.

People wrote about Captain Kirk and Indiana Jones... did that make them real?

Actually, there are no writings about Jesus before the Third Century, and most of the attributions like Tacitus and Josephus are suspected of being later writers inserting text. (As all texts were hand copied before the invention of printing presses.)

For instance, Tacitus says Nero blamed the Christians for the Great Fire in Rome. But this is not mentioned in Suetonius and Dio Cassius. Kind of an important detail to miss, don't you think?

Further, when Pliny the Younger wrote Emperor Trajan for instructions on what to do with Christians when he caught them. (Christians not necessarily meaning followers of Jesus) Trajan recommends being lenient with them. Really? The guys who started the Great fire? This is like someone in 2040 being lenient with ISIS members.

Did He Or Didn't He? Jewish Views of the Resurrection of Jesus • Jews for Jesus

Interesting too in regards to history, that largely goes unacknowledged. It is a fact that in the year 70AD, the Emperor Vespasian ordered the destruction of the Temple. He also named the land Palestine. Yes, he was the one.

The interesting thing about that to me is this. According to the Gospel, when Pilate presented Jesus to the Jewish leaders, and asked...is He not your king? They responded, WE HAVE NO KING BUT CAESAR.
John 19:15
"Shall I crucify your king?" Pilate asked. "We have no king but Caesar," the chief priests answered.

Here is the interesting thing. The last Emperor that was a Caesar was actually Emperor Nero. He died in in 68AD. The year 69AD according to historians is referred to as the year OF THE FOUR EMPERORS.

Galba
Otho
Vitellius
Vespasian

Since there was no Caesar, there was an obvious struggle for power. I often wondered about the writing in the Gospel about the FOUR HORSEMEN. I wonder if John was writing about this, cause the last one Vespasian, the judgement of Israel came. Their sacred Temple was torn down completely. They lost their city. When it says that the last horseman came and hell came with him, I wonder. The thing that stands out to me is this. The Jews declared that we have no King but Caesar. It is almost as though God allowed them to have their land, until the last Caesar died. He then rendered judgement. That is what it sure seems like to me.

All throughout history, there are precursors for the future revelations anyway. It is difficult to see at the time, but sometimes when we look back we can see interesting details.

As far as how the Bible itself was put together and cannon was made, another key moment in history was the Council of Nicea. That took place in 325AD and it was really under the direction of Emperor Constantine, who had summoned Pope Sylvester I. There was a great schism going on and it had to do with the nature of Christ. The debate we seem to be having.

Arianism was on the rise and it stated that Christ was NOT GOD and that He was a "creature" of the Father.



One of the legends from that meeting, was Saint Nicholas was there. Yes, that same Saint Nicholas....that was replaced with a fat guy and reindeer. Anyway, the legend goes that he got up while Arius was arguing that Jesus was not equal to God, walked over to him and slapped him across his face.

Anyway, the other thing that came out after the Council of Nicea, other than the Nicene Creed, and establishment that Jesus is equal to God, and is indeed the second person of the Trinity, but that a cannon was being established.

Until then there was no Bible if you will. No dogma established. It was not until later that century under other councils did the Bible become established.

BTW, the interesting way in which Constantine came to power is another interesting story that many do not know. Cause, like I said. It seems to many that there was no Christian history from the end of Acts to the Reformation.

How much has Christianity been poisoned by such a notion I wonder. I think it is rather clear that it is been greatly poisoned. Like from that gentleman that insisted that the ONLY TRUE WORD was from the King James Bible, which would have meant to him the revised version of the King James Bible, since the original one, made in 1611, had those 7 books that many call apocryphal writings.

I've read the Gospels. As a scholarly exercise.

And it seems to me, they contradict themselves.

Yes, it surely seems that way and that cannot be a surprise. They are historical documents written by men and there are different emphasis put on certain actions in one and the other not so much.

When we look at all writings from history, we see contradictions. Mostly by mistake, but often deliberately. Often times it is what is omitted and no longer taught that causes the real problems. For instance I keep bringing up the Trans Sahara Slave trade. The manipulation of the black race through black patronizing month and keeping them down by pounding the built in excuses for their plight is the absolute goal. Most cannot or will not see it, since humans are the great excuse making animal. The first thing we tend to do with the curse and blessing of our free will is to yell.....THE WOMAN YOU PUT HERE TRICKED ME!!!! That is when it started.

Anyway, getting back to what you are saying and it is true. We see writings from ancient well respected historians that contradict each other, about really everything. For example one well established incident in history was when Rome burned. We have sources from that event. Our main sources for the fire are Tacitus, Suetonius, and Cassius Dio. All three of these ancient Roman historians agree there was a fire in Rome, but they disagree about the actions of the emperor, who many believed had started the fire in order to free up space for the construction of a future palace. Was Nero not responsible and away in the city of Antium during the fire as Tacitus says (Annals 15.44)? Did Nero send men to burn the city and watch from the tower of Maecenas as Suetonius says (Life of Nero 38)? Or did Nero start the fire himself and watch from the rooftop of the imperial palace as Dio Cassius says (Roman History 62.16–17)?

What all of that tells me, and the emphasis certain Christians put on the Bible has been a bit dangerous. The reason is the very reason you bring up. If it was as important as many Christians say, the early disciples would have put a far more importance on it being established than they did. They didn't.

Paul writes hold fast TO THE TRADITIONS as WE PASS THEM ON to YOU. Hardly any of the general population could even read. There was no printing press till the 1400s. They did not separate chapter and verse till the middle ages.

So, if this emphasis on the written word and limited letters were that important and that was indeed God's plan, it sure seems it was slow in getting established. Again, a danger here. Not to mention the changing of language. English was not around back then, and many languages are totally different. The word FLESH for instance in English is the best we got instead of what the Greek word says.

Anyway, the more important aspect is the TRADITION, and THE HOLY SPIRIT. Those two transcend time, cultures and languages. Yet, it is also run by mere men. The reason for councils and rulings and Christ's word says WHATSOEVER YOU BIND ON EARTH WILL BE BOUND IN HEAVEN. It has precedent. In Mathew 23:1 it says that the Saducees and Pharisees sit upon the THRONE OF MOSES, therefore DO ALL THEY TELL YOU TO DO. That authority was given TO THE CHURCH established by CHRIST.

If people want to rebel and curse that, they can feel free. I have. It could be dangerous however, and people ought to be considering history rather than assuming the way it is today for them, is the way Christians practiced years ago, and it would be foolish pride to just exclaim that they were all wrong for doing it that way.

Until someone tells me how the Christians did without a Bible, then I might listen.

 

[hobelim]

Until someone tells me how the Christians did without a Bible, then I might listen.

A mighty wind broke open the door of the room where the disciples were hiding, tongues of fire appeared and, like whoosh, settled above each one of their thick skulls like a flame. Then they proceeded to push the gospel through the nations like a sword with the words of a strange universal language that translated perfectly and was clearly understood in the vernacular of the native language of every nation.

By 325 the the enemy, confounded by Christianity, assimilated and perverted it hoping to destroy it and without knowing the meaning of the words or subjects, proceeded to encapsulate and compel the teachings of Jesus, the seeds of its own destruction, into the future, while wearing it like a crown on a scarlet beast leaving a bloody trail of unspeakable horrors, cities in ruin, and piles of unburied corpses to rot in the light of the sun throughout the ages..

 

[ding]

Did Jesus say in Mathew 25:31-46 that He will separate the goat from the sheep and those who fed the hungry and clothe the naked etc that they would enter? Who are those true righteous that will ask Him when did we ever do that for you? Most Christians know that verse, so who will be asking that I wonder. Cause it says there will be those that don't know they are serving Christ and so therefore it does not seem to matter much whether you know you are serving Him or not. Cause they didn't.

Apparently if many who didn't know they were serving Christ will rise to life when he comes then its the ones who claim to know and serve Christ but don't who will not. So you are right, it doesn't matter if you know that you are serving Christ or not, it matters if you are.

seems like Jesus would praise an atheist who doesn't swallow anything without thinking and the we that ding mentions will be condemned

How about in all FOUR GOSPELS where he announces THIS IS MY BODY. Does it mean that it isn't? If the Spirit makes it so, is it so?

If something is spiritual does that make it symbolic or real? Does He say that MY BODY IS REAL FOOD AND MY BLOOD IS REAL DRINK? Does He say that in John chapter 6?

You are wrong. Unlike the other three gospels the only mention of flesh and blood in the gospel of John is before the last supper and the only one that Jesus gave bread to during the last supper was Judas as a way for Jesus to identify his betrayer to the others.

And as soon as Judas received the bread, Satan entered him. This is no small point


As far as MY BODY IS REAL FOOD AND MY BLOOD IS REAL DRINK, Jesus was alluding to Isaiah 55:1 where the prophet clearly establishes that food is metaphor words, REAL FOOD that satisfies.


"Come , all of you who thirst, Come to the waters; and you without money come, and eat! Come buy wine and milk with money and without cost! Why spend money on that which is not bread, and your labor on that which does not satisfy? Listen carefully to Me, and eat what is good, and your soul will delight in the richest of foods.…"


In John 6:63 Jesus clearly explains that flesh was a metaphor for words that are both spirit and life and in John 6:68 the disciples who stayed with him confirmed their belief when Jesus asked if they were going to leave him too..

"Lord to whom shall we go? Your words are words of eternal life. We have faith and know that you are the Holy One of God."

Does it say we are to hold fast to the traditions?

Do you do that?

Are you...a sinner?

I would never set aside the law of God to maintain your traditions.

I always do exactly as God commands.

Other than the saints we know about and the saints we don’t know about no one knows their fate or anyone else’s fate. So I don’t know where you get the idea that I believe any specific group is condemned. I don’t.

You on the other hand believe Christians are idolaters and are condemned, right? Lord knows you have condemned me for it more times than I can count.

So I find it really odd that you would criticize others for condemning others because you are the only one doing that.

 

[ding]

I don’t have anything backwards.

lol....there there... don't take it too hard. You are what you is.

You were born in a house full of pain. You were trained not to spit in the fan. You were told what to do by the man. You were broken by trained personnel. You were fitted with collar and chain........

And when YOU loose control, YOU’LL reap the harvest you have sown.

 

[ding]

Surprised by the OP.

Now, on to the question. First of all from a spiritual standpoint and eternal standpoint, to be enlightened by truth, we need to deal with and accept the fact that I crucified Christ. Not the Jews, not the Romans. Sin crucifies Christ (yes present tense.)

Every time we sin, we send Christ to the cross. So, it was not YOUR ancestors. That is the worldly way to see it and without the Holy Spirit, it is impossible to see.

I run the risk, which is why I believe I am damned, is Hebrews 6:4-6 certainly applies to me. Cannot get past that I have been enlightened. I believe Jesus is Lord. Yet, I am guilty of willful sin. Cannot make any excuses.

And no Mary was not raped. Her words, let it done according to your will. Where Adam and Eve chose their own will over that of the Lord, Mary said yes to the Lord.

God did not "become merciful." God is. Which is why HE told Moses to tell the people that I AM is here.

If your heart is hardened TN and unwilling to receive the Truth from the Holy Spirit, then yes. Eternal hell is our reward. I am thinking there is a reason you asked the question and there is a spiritual war going on inside.

Consider Christ. Not from a loser like me. Consider what it may be to be renewed by HIS grace.

Consider some testimony by Saints.

Like the Max Kolbe Story.

There is no spiritual war going on.
I just tried to be a jackass while mocking gods ignorant mindset of "sins of the father"
Nice post though owl!

Sins of the father are real as our children are affected by our sins. Read sins loosely here. Think of them as lowering standards of conduct. They can get passed on.