America is a 'CONSTITUTIONAL REPUBLIC,' not a Democracy...

[dcraelin]

We have been slowly turning into a Democracy over the last 115 years by the Progressives.
We will also fail as all democracies do when we run out of other peoples money, unless we start paying down our debt of over 18 trillion and stop with the new stuff like free college and free health care.
The left have a fit over the 4 trillion that Bush added over his 8 years, but refuse to see that it has gone up 9 trillion under Obama at the end of his 8 years.


What Our Fore Fathers Thought
A Republic is representative government ruled by law (the United States Constitution). A Democracy is government ruled by the majority (mob rule). A Republic recognizes the unalienable rights of individuals while Democracies are only concerned with group wants or needs for the good of the public, or in other words social justice.
Lawmaking is a slow, deliberate process in our Constitutional Republic requiring approval from the three branches of government, the Legislative, Executive, and Judicial branches for checks and balance. Lawmaking in Democracy occurs rapidly requiring approval from the majority by polls and/or voter referendums, which in turn is mob rule 50% plus 1 vote takes away anything from the minority. Here is one example; if 51% of the people don’t pay taxes they can vote a tax increase on the 49% that do, which is mob rule.

When there are no longer enough producers to fund the legitimate functions of government and the socialist programs, the democracy will collapse, always to be followed by a Dictatorship.

Actually Republicanism was a rallying point AGAINST the Constitution, see my pics especially of Patrick Henry.

here you can see Hamiltons true opinion on republics

7266 by dcraelin on US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum

 

[dcraelin]

We have been slowly turning into a Democracy over the last 115 years by the Progressives.
We will also fail as all democracies do when we run out of other peoples money, unless we start paying down our debt of over 18 trillion and stop with the new stuff like free college and free health care.
The left have a fit over the 4 trillion that Bush added over his 8 years, but refuse to see that it has gone up 9 trillion under Obama at the end of his 8 years.


What Our Fore Fathers Thought
A Republic is representative government ruled by law (the United States Constitution). A Democracy is government ruled by the majority (mob rule). A Republic recognizes the unalienable rights of individuals while Democracies are only concerned with group wants or needs for the good of the public, or in other words social justice.
Lawmaking is a slow, deliberate process in our Constitutional Republic requiring approval from the three branches of government, the Legislative, Executive, and Judicial branches for checks and balance. Lawmaking in Democracy occurs rapidly requiring approval from the majority by polls and/or voter referendums, which in turn is mob rule 50% plus 1 vote takes away anything from the minority. Here is one example; if 51% of the people don’t pay taxes they can vote a tax increase on the 49% that do, which is mob rule.

When there are no longer enough producers to fund the legitimate functions of government and the socialist programs, the democracy will collapse, always to be followed by a Dictatorship.

Actually Republicanism was a rallying point AGAINST the Constitution, see my pics especially of Patrick Henry.

here you can see Hamiltons true opinion on republics

7266 by dcraelin on US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum

also some of the founders were contemptuous of the patriot rebels, calling them the mob.


Gouverneur Morris by dcraelin on US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum

 

[NYcarbineer]

A Constitutional Republic is one form of a democracy.....a Parliamentary govt is another form of a Democracy....

No it isn't.

Yes it is. A democracy is a government where the power is in the hands of the People. Such as ours.

 

[dcraelin]

"America is a 'CONSTITUTIONAL REPUBLIC,' not a Democracy..."

A fact most on the right fail to understand, with conservatives advocating nonsense about the majority deciding who will or will not have his civil rights, such as not allowing same-sex couples access to marriage law, or compelling a woman to give birth against her will.

if they understood it, they'd understand that the government was set up to protect normal people from their torch and pitchfork crowd

Actually the Supreme court has refuted the idea that we are a "republic not a democracy" in the recent case Arizona state legislature vs. Arizona independent commission.

The majority in the case made up of the liberals....but the conservatives for the most part agreed on the fundamentals.....Thomas pointing out the hypocrisy of the majority liberals in regard to their recent ruling on the gay marriage case.

 

[NYcarbineer]

We have been slowly turning into a Democracy over the last 115 years by the Progressives.
We will also fail as all democracies do when we run out of other peoples money, unless we start paying down our debt of over 18 trillion and stop with the new stuff like free college and free health care.
The left have a fit over the 4 trillion that Bush added over his 8 years, but refuse to see that it has gone up 9 trillion under Obama at the end of his 8 years.


What Our Fore Fathers Thought
A Republic is representative government ruled by law (the United States Constitution). A Democracy is government ruled by the majority (mob rule). A Republic recognizes the unalienable rights of individuals while Democracies are only concerned with group wants or needs for the good of the public, or in other words social justice.
Lawmaking is a slow, deliberate process in our Constitutional Republic requiring approval from the three branches of government, the Legislative, Executive, and Judicial branches for checks and balance. Lawmaking in Democracy occurs rapidly requiring approval from the majority by polls and/or voter referendums, which in turn is mob rule 50% plus 1 vote takes away anything from the minority. Here is one example; if 51% of the people don’t pay taxes they can vote a tax increase on the 49% that do, which is mob rule.

When there are no longer enough producers to fund the legitimate functions of government and the socialist programs, the democracy will collapse, always to be followed by a Dictatorship.

So you prefer the government where the minority makes the laws.

lol, good one.

 

[NYcarbineer]

Conservatives didn't mind 'democracy' aka 'mob rule' when the California referendum went against same sex marriage,

and then they doubled down by howling over the judiciary coming in to protect the rights of the minority.

 

[peach174]

We have been slowly turning into a Democracy over the last 115 years by the Progressives.
We will also fail as all democracies do when we run out of other peoples money, unless we start paying down our debt of over 18 trillion and stop with the new stuff like free college and free health care.
The left have a fit over the 4 trillion that Bush added over his 8 years, but refuse to see that it has gone up 9 trillion under Obama at the end of his 8 years.


What Our Fore Fathers Thought
A Republic is representative government ruled by law (the United States Constitution). A Democracy is government ruled by the majority (mob rule). A Republic recognizes the unalienable rights of individuals while Democracies are only concerned with group wants or needs for the good of the public, or in other words social justice.
Lawmaking is a slow, deliberate process in our Constitutional Republic requiring approval from the three branches of government, the Legislative, Executive, and Judicial branches for checks and balance. Lawmaking in Democracy occurs rapidly requiring approval from the majority by polls and/or voter referendums, which in turn is mob rule 50% plus 1 vote takes away anything from the minority. Here is one example; if 51% of the people don’t pay taxes they can vote a tax increase on the 49% that do, which is mob rule.

When there are no longer enough producers to fund the legitimate functions of government and the socialist programs, the democracy will collapse, always to be followed by a Dictatorship.

Actually Republicanism was a rallying point AGAINST the Constitution, see my pics especially of Patrick Henry.

here you can see Hamiltons true opinion on republics

7266 by dcraelin on US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum

Did you read Federalist # 39? James Madison
Do realize that they argued and debated over the points as to what type of Government and then voted on a Republic form of Government?
http://www.constitution.org/fed/federa39.htm
Conformity of the Plan to Republican Principles

The last paper having concluded the observations which were meant to introduce a candid survey of the plan of government reported by the convention, we now proceed to the execution of that part of our undertaking.

The first question that offers itself is, whether the general form and aspect of the government be strictly republican. It is evident that no other form would be reconcilable with the genius of the people of America; with the fundamental principles of the Revolution; or with that honorable determination which animates every votary of freedom, to rest all our political experiments on the capacity of mankind for self-government. If the plan of the convention, therefore, be found to depart from the republican character, its advocates must abandon it as no longer defensible.

 

[peach174]

We have been slowly turning into a Democracy over the last 115 years by the Progressives.
We will also fail as all democracies do when we run out of other peoples money, unless we start paying down our debt of over 18 trillion and stop with the new stuff like free college and free health care.
The left have a fit over the 4 trillion that Bush added over his 8 years, but refuse to see that it has gone up 9 trillion under Obama at the end of his 8 years.


What Our Fore Fathers Thought
A Republic is representative government ruled by law (the United States Constitution). A Democracy is government ruled by the majority (mob rule). A Republic recognizes the unalienable rights of individuals while Democracies are only concerned with group wants or needs for the good of the public, or in other words social justice.
Lawmaking is a slow, deliberate process in our Constitutional Republic requiring approval from the three branches of government, the Legislative, Executive, and Judicial branches for checks and balance. Lawmaking in Democracy occurs rapidly requiring approval from the majority by polls and/or voter referendums, which in turn is mob rule 50% plus 1 vote takes away anything from the minority. Here is one example; if 51% of the people don’t pay taxes they can vote a tax increase on the 49% that do, which is mob rule.

When there are no longer enough producers to fund the legitimate functions of government and the socialist programs, the democracy will collapse, always to be followed by a Dictatorship.

So you prefer the government where the minority makes the laws.

lol, good one.

NO
A government where the minority has equal rights, not rule over the majority like they are now.

 

[Care4all]

A Constitutional Republic is one form of a democracy.....a Parliamentary govt is another form of a Democracy....

No it isn't.

I was taught in schools I went to on Military bases, we were a Democratic (constitutional) Republic.

• Democracy - a form of government in which the supreme power is retained by the people, but which is usually exercised indirectly through a system of representation and delegated authority periodically renewed.

• Democratic republic - a state in which the supreme power rests in the body of citizens entitled to vote for officers and representatives responsible to them.

 

[Skylar]

We have been slowly turning into a Democracy over the last 115 years by the Progressives.
We will also fail as all democracies do when we run out of other peoples money, unless we start paying down our debt of over 18 trillion and stop with the new stuff like free college and free health care.
The left have a fit over the 4 trillion that Bush added over his 8 years, but refuse to see that it has gone up 9 trillion under Obama at the end of his 8 years.


What Our Fore Fathers Thought
A Republic is representative government ruled by law (the United States Constitution). A Democracy is government ruled by the majority (mob rule). A Republic recognizes the unalienable rights of individuals while Democracies are only concerned with group wants or needs for the good of the public, or in other words social justice.
Lawmaking is a slow, deliberate process in our Constitutional Republic requiring approval from the three branches of government, the Legislative, Executive, and Judicial branches for checks and balance. Lawmaking in Democracy occurs rapidly requiring approval from the majority by polls and/or voter referendums, which in turn is mob rule 50% plus 1 vote takes away anything from the minority. Here is one example; if 51% of the people don’t pay taxes they can vote a tax increase on the 49% that do, which is mob rule.

When there are no longer enough producers to fund the legitimate functions of government and the socialist programs, the democracy will collapse, always to be followed by a Dictatorship.

Actually Republicanism was a rallying point AGAINST the Constitution, see my pics especially of Patrick Henry.

here you can see Hamiltons true opinion on republics

7266 by dcraelin on US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum

Hamilton was addressing a pretty specific argument. Specifically Montesquieu's arguments regarding the inevitiable failure of anything but a small republic. Hamilton argued that a confederacy with a federal government could balance the negatives of a straight republic. As it would mitigate the factionalism of the republic members that was so historically prevelant, as well as help provide 'tranquility' among the States.

One of the primary functions of the federal government under the Constitution is as arbiter between States. As the States (and in former incarnations, colonies) could be petty, disagreeable little bitches.

 

[Skylar]

A Constitutional Republic is one form of a democracy.....a Parliamentary govt is another form of a Democracy....

No it isn't.

I was taught in schools I went to on Military bases, we were a Democratic (constitutional) Republic.

• Democracy - a form of government in which the supreme power is retained by the people, but which is usually exercised indirectly through a system of representation and delegated authority periodically renewed.

• Democratic republic - a state in which the supreme power rests in the body of citizens entitled to vote for officers and representatives responsible to them.

The concept of democracy has changed over the years. With current definitions being broad enough to encompass constitutional republics. But 'democracy' in the founders age was almost a pejorative, often being synonymous with 'tyranny of the majority'.

Democracy was held in very low regard across Europe and much of the world in the latter 18th century. With many looking at what the Greeks did to say, Socrates....with disdain and disgust. The founders didn't have much use for it constitutionally. WIth only 1/2 of one of the three branches of government using it. The rest used parliamentary procedures. With representatives nominating or electing office holders.

This modern lionization of Greece as the cornerstone of western civilization didn't really kick in until the mid 1800s, spawned oddly enough by the Germans. Before that it was just....history.

 

[Care4all]

A Constitutional Republic is one form of a democracy.....a Parliamentary govt is another form of a Democracy....

No it isn't.

I was taught in schools I went to on Military bases, we were a Democratic (constitutional) Republic.

• Democracy - a form of government in which the supreme power is retained by the people, but which is usually exercised indirectly through a system of representation and delegated authority periodically renewed.

• Democratic republic - a state in which the supreme power rests in the body of citizens entitled to vote for officers and representatives responsible to them.

The concept of democracy has changed over the years. With current definitions being broad enough to encompass constitutional republics. But 'democracy' in the founders age was almost a pejorative, often being synonymous with 'tyranny of the majority'.

Democracy was held in very low regard across Europe and much of the world in the latter 18th century. With many looking at what the Greeks did to say, Socrates....with disdain and disgust. The founders didn't have much use for it constitutionally. WIth only 1/2 of one of the three branches of government using it. The rest used parliamentary procedures. With representatives nominating or electing office holders.

This modern lionization of Greece as the cornerstone of western civilization didn't really kick in until the mid 1800s, spawned oddly enough by the Germans. Before that it was just....history.

TY!!!

Are there any, out of all the countries in the world today, that do have a pure democracy as their system of government?

 

[NYcarbineer]

A Constitutional Republic is one form of a democracy.....a Parliamentary govt is another form of a Democracy....

No it isn't.

I was taught in schools I went to on Military bases, we were a Democratic (constitutional) Republic.

• Democracy - a form of government in which the supreme power is retained by the people, but which is usually exercised indirectly through a system of representation and delegated authority periodically renewed.

• Democratic republic - a state in which the supreme power rests in the body of citizens entitled to vote for officers and representatives responsible to them.

Those two statements say pretty much the same thing.

 

[Skylar]

A Constitutional Republic is one form of a democracy.....a Parliamentary govt is another form of a Democracy....

No it isn't.

I was taught in schools I went to on Military bases, we were a Democratic (constitutional) Republic.

• Democracy - a form of government in which the supreme power is retained by the people, but which is usually exercised indirectly through a system of representation and delegated authority periodically renewed.

• Democratic republic - a state in which the supreme power rests in the body of citizens entitled to vote for officers and representatives responsible to them.

The concept of democracy has changed over the years. With current definitions being broad enough to encompass constitutional republics. But 'democracy' in the founders age was almost a pejorative, often being synonymous with 'tyranny of the majority'.

Democracy was held in very low regard across Europe and much of the world in the latter 18th century. With many looking at what the Greeks did to say, Socrates....with disdain and disgust. The founders didn't have much use for it constitutionally. WIth only 1/2 of one of the three branches of government using it. The rest used parliamentary procedures. With representatives nominating or electing office holders.

This modern lionization of Greece as the cornerstone of western civilization didn't really kick in until the mid 1800s, spawned oddly enough by the Germans. Before that it was just....history.

TY!!!

Are there any, out of all the countries in the world today, that have a pure democracy as their system of government?

Of course not. Its utterly impractical.....and in many ways like highschool with guns. Clickish, petty and violently enforceable. A 'pure' democracy is rather terrifying.

 

[Skylar]

A Constitutional Republic is one form of a democracy.....a Parliamentary govt is another form of a Democracy....

No it isn't.

I was taught in schools I went to on Military bases, we were a Democratic (constitutional) Republic.

• Democracy - a form of government in which the supreme power is retained by the people, but which is usually exercised indirectly through a system of representation and delegated authority periodically renewed.

• Democratic republic - a state in which the supreme power rests in the body of citizens entitled to vote for officers and representatives responsible to them.

Those two statements say pretty much the same thing.

Now it does. Back in the founder's day, a republic and a democracy were considered distinct and different. The meaning of democracy has expanded over the centuries to encompass a constitutional republic.

 

[NYcarbineer]

We have been slowly turning into a Democracy over the last 115 years by the Progressives.
We will also fail as all democracies do when we run out of other peoples money, unless we start paying down our debt of over 18 trillion and stop with the new stuff like free college and free health care.
The left have a fit over the 4 trillion that Bush added over his 8 years, but refuse to see that it has gone up 9 trillion under Obama at the end of his 8 years.


What Our Fore Fathers Thought
A Republic is representative government ruled by law (the United States Constitution). A Democracy is government ruled by the majority (mob rule). A Republic recognizes the unalienable rights of individuals while Democracies are only concerned with group wants or needs for the good of the public, or in other words social justice.
Lawmaking is a slow, deliberate process in our Constitutional Republic requiring approval from the three branches of government, the Legislative, Executive, and Judicial branches for checks and balance. Lawmaking in Democracy occurs rapidly requiring approval from the majority by polls and/or voter referendums, which in turn is mob rule 50% plus 1 vote takes away anything from the minority. Here is one example; if 51% of the people don’t pay taxes they can vote a tax increase on the 49% that do, which is mob rule.

When there are no longer enough producers to fund the legitimate functions of government and the socialist programs, the democracy will collapse, always to be followed by a Dictatorship.

Actually Republicanism was a rallying point AGAINST the Constitution, see my pics especially of Patrick Henry.

here you can see Hamiltons true opinion on republics

7266 by dcraelin on US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum

Did you read Federalist # 39? James Madison
Do realize that they argued and debated over the points as to what type of Government and then voted on a Republic form of Government?
http://www.constitution.org/fed/federa39.htm
Conformity of the Plan to Republican Principles

The last paper having concluded the observations which were meant to introduce a candid survey of the plan of government reported by the convention, we now proceed to the execution of that part of our undertaking.

The first question that offers itself is, whether the general form and aspect of the government be strictly republican. It is evident that no other form would be reconcilable with the genius of the people of America; with the fundamental principles of the Revolution; or with that honorable determination which animates every votary of freedom, to rest all our political experiments on the capacity of mankind for self-government. If the plan of the convention, therefore, be found to depart from the republican character, its advocates must abandon it as no longer defensible.

'Republic' and 'Democracy' are not mutually exclusive. Why is it so hard for you people to get that through your head?

 

[peach174]

A Constitutional Republic is one form of a democracy.....a Parliamentary govt is another form of a Democracy....

No it isn't.

I was taught in schools I went to on Military bases, we were a Democratic (constitutional) Republic.

• Democracy - a form of government in which the supreme power is retained by the people, but which is usually exercised indirectly through a system of representation and delegated authority periodically renewed.

• Democratic republic - a state in which the supreme power rests in the body of citizens entitled to vote for officers and representatives responsible to them.

Yes we have been taught that since right after the Civil War but became more predominate in the teachings at the turn of the 20th century.

 

[Care4all]

A Constitutional Republic is one form of a democracy.....a Parliamentary govt is another form of a Democracy....

No it isn't.

I was taught in schools I went to on Military bases, we were a Democratic (constitutional) Republic.

• Democracy - a form of government in which the supreme power is retained by the people, but which is usually exercised indirectly through a system of representation and delegated authority periodically renewed.

• Democratic republic - a state in which the supreme power rests in the body of citizens entitled to vote for officers and representatives responsible to them.

Those two statements say pretty much the same thing.

yes, they do...

 

[NYcarbineer]

We have been slowly turning into a Democracy over the last 115 years by the Progressives.
We will also fail as all democracies do when we run out of other peoples money, unless we start paying down our debt of over 18 trillion and stop with the new stuff like free college and free health care.
The left have a fit over the 4 trillion that Bush added over his 8 years, but refuse to see that it has gone up 9 trillion under Obama at the end of his 8 years.


What Our Fore Fathers Thought
A Republic is representative government ruled by law (the United States Constitution). A Democracy is government ruled by the majority (mob rule). A Republic recognizes the unalienable rights of individuals while Democracies are only concerned with group wants or needs for the good of the public, or in other words social justice.
Lawmaking is a slow, deliberate process in our Constitutional Republic requiring approval from the three branches of government, the Legislative, Executive, and Judicial branches for checks and balance. Lawmaking in Democracy occurs rapidly requiring approval from the majority by polls and/or voter referendums, which in turn is mob rule 50% plus 1 vote takes away anything from the minority. Here is one example; if 51% of the people don’t pay taxes they can vote a tax increase on the 49% that do, which is mob rule.

When there are no longer enough producers to fund the legitimate functions of government and the socialist programs, the democracy will collapse, always to be followed by a Dictatorship.

So you prefer the government where the minority makes the laws.

lol, good one.

NO
A government where the minority has equal rights, not rule over the majority like they are now.

How can the minority have equal rights to the majority if the minority wants something the majority doesn't want?

 

[NYcarbineer]

We have been slowly turning into a Democracy over the last 115 years by the Progressives.
We will also fail as all democracies do when we run out of other peoples money, unless we start paying down our debt of over 18 trillion and stop with the new stuff like free college and free health care.
The left have a fit over the 4 trillion that Bush added over his 8 years, but refuse to see that it has gone up 9 trillion under Obama at the end of his 8 years.


What Our Fore Fathers Thought
A Republic is representative government ruled by law (the United States Constitution). A Democracy is government ruled by the majority (mob rule). A Republic recognizes the unalienable rights of individuals while Democracies are only concerned with group wants or needs for the good of the public, or in other words social justice.
Lawmaking is a slow, deliberate process in our Constitutional Republic requiring approval from the three branches of government, the Legislative, Executive, and Judicial branches for checks and balance. Lawmaking in Democracy occurs rapidly requiring approval from the majority by polls and/or voter referendums, which in turn is mob rule 50% plus 1 vote takes away anything from the minority. Here is one example; if 51% of the people don’t pay taxes they can vote a tax increase on the 49% that do, which is mob rule.

When there are no longer enough producers to fund the legitimate functions of government and the socialist programs, the democracy will collapse, always to be followed by a Dictatorship.

So you prefer the government where the minority makes the laws.

lol, good one.

NO
A government where the minority has equal rights, not rule over the majority like they are now.

So how do you propose, as in your post above, to prevent the majority from voting to impose a tax on the minority?