American Atheists Lose.. 9-11 Cross stays.

[martybegan]

Again, it still doesn't make the whole memorial Christian, it doesn't violate the 1st amendment, and you are still a crybaby asshole JoeB sock.

You can think anything you like but it starts with a Christian cross and ends with a Christian cross. therefore it's a Christian Memorial, and for no one else.

Its sad, sad, sad that people would attempt & succeed to furter divide the nation so that they can plant their sky pixie's flag, as it were, at Ground Zero.

You are a hateful idiotic asshat.

 

[PaintMyHouse]

Again, it still doesn't make the whole memorial Christian, it doesn't violate the 1st amendment, and you are still a crybaby asshole JoeB sock.

You can think anything you like but it starts with a Christian cross and ends with a Christian cross. therefore it's a Christian Memorial, and for no one else.

According to the rules made by you, which are pretty much meaningless.

According to common sense. Putting up a big cross, the very symbol of Christianity, and why you desire to protect it, does not say Welcome Jews, Muslims, Hindus, and All Others. It says, worship Jesus here...

 

[Slyhunter]

Again, it still doesn't make the whole memorial Christian, it doesn't violate the 1st amendment, and you are still a crybaby asshole JoeB sock.

You can think anything you like but it starts with a Christian cross and ends with a Christian cross. therefore it's a Christian Memorial, and for no one else.

According to the rules made by you, which are pretty much meaningless.

What religion other than Christian uses the cross?
In fact name one group that uses a cross as their symbol without recognizing it's christian symbolism.

 

[Dot Com]

You can think anything you like but it starts with a Christian cross and ends with a Christian cross. therefore it's a Christian Memorial, and for no one else.

Its sad, sad, sad that people would attempt & succeed to furter divide the nation so that they can plant their sky pixie's flag, as it were, at Ground Zero.

You are a hateful idiotic asshat.

and you are a facts-averse ASSCLOWN but when has that NOT been the case?

Why turn a perfectly good memorial site into a SECTARIAN church symbol

 

[martybegan]

You can think anything you like but it starts with a Christian cross and ends with a Christian cross. therefore it's a Christian Memorial, and for no one else.

According to the rules made by you, which are pretty much meaningless.

According to common sense. Putting up a big cross, the very symbol of Christianity, and why you desire to protect it, does not say Welcome Jews, Muslims, Hindus, and All Others. It says, worship Jesus here...

In your mind it says this. I find it interesting you bring up other religions, considering the complaint is ONLY coming from atheists.

And by your logic Red Cross stations during a disaster are only inviting Christians to be taken care of....

 

[martybegan]

Its sad, sad, sad that people would attempt & succeed to furter divide the nation so that they can plant their sky pixie's flag, as it were, at Ground Zero.

You are a hateful idiotic asshat.

and you are a facts-averse ASSCLOWN but when has that NOT been the case?

Why turn a perfectly good memorial site into a SECTARIAN church symbol

Well for one reason it seems to piss off losers such as yourself, but that's just a side bonus.

Your view of what creates a sectarian situation is skewed, luckily no one but a few butthurt atheist assholes maintain the same view, and we can kindly go tell you to fuck off.

 

[martybegan]

You can think anything you like but it starts with a Christian cross and ends with a Christian cross. therefore it's a Christian Memorial, and for no one else.

According to the rules made by you, which are pretty much meaningless.

What religion other than Christian uses the cross?
In fact name one group that uses a cross as their symbol without recognizing it's christian symbolism.

But it doesn't matter who uses it, what matters is that including it in the memorial is in no way, shape or form an endorsement of a religion.

 

[Slyhunter]

According to the rules made by you, which are pretty much meaningless.

What religion other than Christian uses the cross?
In fact name one group that uses a cross as their symbol without recognizing it's christian symbolism.

But it doesn't matter who uses it, what matters is that including it in the memorial is in no way, shape or form an endorsement of a religion.

It's an endorsement of Christianity and your lying to yourself if you don't see that.
Fine, lets put up the upside down cross on the thing too and claim it's not an endorsement of Satanism.

 

[auditor0007]

Actually, I heard this morning that they DID want it removed. Apparently, some testimonies included people saying that the site of the cross, itself, made them ill.
Not sure what the truth is.

Maybe that's because if you think about it, which you guys don't, there was no God there that day, or if he was there he was on the side of the 19 who killed 150 times that many. Now that's a slaughter worthy of the Bible eh?

You guys make a big deal out of symbols while your actions undermine the faith all damn day long. Godspeed little friends...

Us guys?

I am a Jew. Not very religious either.

I simply respect the sentiments of other people and if it affects me, I turn the other way.

As it should be. So long as you are not pushing your religion on me, I have no problem with religious symbols, even in public places. Many court rulings going against the placing of religious symbols in public domains have been misguided. Courts have been sold on the idea that by allowing a religious group to place some religious symbol in a government place of business that all of a sudden that means the government is promoting that religion over another. That has never been the case. It's just been the government recognizing the wishes of some people in the community. Many times we have seen a Nativity scene along with a Menorah during the month of December on the city lawn. The only way this is a problem is if one group is denied access while another is not. As for atheists, they don't believe in anything, so they don't need anything to represent them.

 

[PaintMyHouse]

What religion other than Christian uses the cross?
In fact name one group that uses a cross as their symbol without recognizing it's christian symbolism.

But it doesn't matter who uses it, what matters is that including it in the memorial is in no way, shape or form an endorsement of a religion.

It's an endorsement of Christianity and your lying to yourself if you don't see that.
Fine, lets put up the upside down cross on the thing too and claim it's not an endorsement of Satanism.

As long as he gets his Christian way, fuck everyone else, obviously.

 

[DrDoomNGloom]

By all the name calling and bickering going on here I am having a hard time trying to find a Christian in this conversation.
So I just want to make sure I got this right.

This is a piece of the wreckage that was found still standing??
What do you object to, that you see a shape that is cross like??
That your mind sees a piece of mangled steel left standing in the middle of complete and total destruction and all you can tell yourself is that it is symbolic, a Christian Cross, a cross that Christ died on for you and me??
So what is so offensive to you??
I know you have a different religion, but my religion teaches me to be somewhat tolerant of others and try and understand their religious views!!

 

[PaintMyHouse]

By all the name calling and bickering going on here I am having a hard time trying to find a Christian in this conversation.
So I just want to make sure I got this right.

This is a piece of the wreckage that was found still standing??
What do you object to, that you see a shape that is cross like??
That your mind sees a piece of mangled steel left standing in the middle of complete and total destruction and all you can tell yourself is that it is symbolic, a Christian Cross, a cross that Christ died on for you and me??
So what is so offensive to you??
I know you have a different religion, but my religion teaches me to be somewhat tolerant of others and try and understand their religious views!!

Does it teach you to display their symbols on the courthouse lawn? Got a big Star of David hanging on the wall of your kid's public classroom do you now? How about a nice star and crescent moon, at city hall?

 

[Slyhunter]

By all the name calling and bickering going on here I am having a hard time trying to find a Christian in this conversation.
So I just want to make sure I got this right.

This is a piece of the wreckage that was found still standing??
What do you object to, that you see a shape that is cross like??
That your mind sees a piece of mangled steel left standing in the middle of complete and total destruction and all you can tell yourself is that it is symbolic, a Christian Cross, a cross that Christ died on for you and me??
So what is so offensive to you??
I know you have a different religion, but my religion teaches me to be somewhat tolerant of others and try and understand their religious views!!

But it isn't the beam that was left standing. They used a completely different beam. I showed the before and after pictures showing where the beams were turned sideways and a new hole drilled in order for the new one to be the same as the old one. So the symbolism is bullshit.

I'll do it again.
Before

See how the center beam is flat up front and U shaped on the sides. And the cross beam is the opposite.

after

See how the long beam is now U shaped in the front and the cross beam is flat up front.

They ain't the same beams that's why.

 

[martybegan]

What religion other than Christian uses the cross?
In fact name one group that uses a cross as their symbol without recognizing it's christian symbolism.

But it doesn't matter who uses it, what matters is that including it in the memorial is in no way, shape or form an endorsement of a religion.

It's an endorsement of Christianity and your lying to yourself if you don't see that.
Fine, lets put up the upside down cross on the thing too and claim it's not an endorsement of Satanism.

I don't recall an upside down cross being made part of the cultural images of 9/11.

Plus you would be doing it out of spite, and no matter what your religious belief structure, its an ass move.

Oh look it's a cross!!! help help, I'm being oppressed!!!

Do you realize how whiny and bitchy it makes you people look?

 

[martybegan]

By all the name calling and bickering going on here I am having a hard time trying to find a Christian in this conversation.
So I just want to make sure I got this right.

This is a piece of the wreckage that was found still standing??
What do you object to, that you see a shape that is cross like??
That your mind sees a piece of mangled steel left standing in the middle of complete and total destruction and all you can tell yourself is that it is symbolic, a Christian Cross, a cross that Christ died on for you and me??
So what is so offensive to you??
I know you have a different religion, but my religion teaches me to be somewhat tolerant of others and try and understand their religious views!!

But it isn't the beam that was left standing. They used a completely different beam. I showed the before and after pictures showing where the beams were turned sideways and a new hole drilled in order for the new one to be the same as the old one. So the symbolism is bullshit.

I'll do it again.
Before

See how the center beam is flat up front and U shaped on the sides. And the cross beam is the opposite.

after

See how the long beam is now U shaped in the front and the cross beam is flat up front.

They ain't the same beams that's why.

This is the same crap troofers use, do you really want to be associated with them?

and even if they couldn't salvage the exact beam, who cares? it was part of the moment, part of the history of the event.

You do know the iconic shot of the Marines raising the flag on Mount Subarachi was a do-over right? That they had to re-do the wagon-lit at Compaigne because the original got blown up in berlin during an air raid? Does it make them less iconic?

 

[martybegan]

But it doesn't matter who uses it, what matters is that including it in the memorial is in no way, shape or form an endorsement of a religion.

It's an endorsement of Christianity and your lying to yourself if you don't see that.
Fine, lets put up the upside down cross on the thing too and claim it's not an endorsement of Satanism.

As long as he gets his Christian way, fuck everyone else, obviously.

I am a lapsed christian at best, what I am not is a jackass who is offended by symbols of religion in public places.

If the beam managed to bend itself into a star of david or a image of vishnu and they put it in the museum I wouldn't say boo. A crescent, well, considering the motives of the attackers that's a bit more prickly.

 

[martybegan]

Maybe that's because if you think about it, which you guys don't, there was no God there that day, or if he was there he was on the side of the 19 who killed 150 times that many. Now that's a slaughter worthy of the Bible eh?

You guys make a big deal out of symbols while your actions undermine the faith all damn day long. Godspeed little friends...

Us guys?

I am a Jew. Not very religious either.

I simply respect the sentiments of other people and if it affects me, I turn the other way.

As it should be. So long as you are not pushing your religion on me, I have no problem with religious symbols, even in public places. Many court rulings going against the placing of religious symbols in public domains have been misguided. Courts have been sold on the idea that by allowing a religious group to place some religious symbol in a government place of business that all of a sudden that means the government is promoting that religion over another. That has never been the case. It's just been the government recognizing the wishes of some people in the community. Many times we have seen a Nativity scene along with a Menorah during the month of December on the city lawn. The only way this is a problem is if one group is denied access while another is not. As for atheists, they don't believe in anything, so they don't need anything to represent them.

Holy crap, logic and reason. I must be in another thread...

 

[PaintMyHouse]

Let's us all know when the Christian 9/11 Memorial allows all other faiths to add their own 17-foot-tall symbols of faith? I won't hold my breath.

 

[whitehall]

When push comes to shove liberal judges will do the right thing if the political climate is right and it protects their own asses from controversy. I bet judge Reena wished she wasn't next in line to rule on this issue. It's the right thing with a lame reason. Too bad the 40 year old Korean War memorial in San Diego didn't get exactly the same consideration when a series of chickenshit judges ordered it demolished because an atheist was offended by a 40 ft Cross.

 

[martybegan]

Let's us all know when the Christian 9/11 Memorial allows all other faiths to add their own 17-foot-tall symbols of faith? I won't hold my breath.

Other faiths are not asking for it, so leave them out of it and argue your point on your own (lack of) merits.