Americans DON'T want the debt ceiling raised

[candycorn]

Won't matter in the end; it's going to get raised.

 

[KissMy]

It will get raised.

Financial markets believe it will. If it doesn't, and the market thinks the Republicans are serious, the Dow will drop by 1000 points in 2 days.

And then it will get raised after that.

Yup! - The debt ceiling is stupid. When they used it to shut down the government in 1995 every government employee & dependent got retroactive back pay for all the time they were off work or did not get a entitlement check. It just gave all government workers an extra paid vacation. Plus the federal government lost lots of operating income but still had to pay all it's expenses.

On top of that debt ceiling fights lowers the US credit rating raising the interest rate we have to pay on the government debt. Government shutdowns & debt ceiling fights always causes us to have to pay more taxes for less services.

Spending & Tax Loopholes are the problem causing the debt. We are on the most rapid deficit reduction course in history already. Any debt ceiling fights will slow or derail the decreasing rate of deficit spending that is leading us towards a surplus.

 

[editec]

Andrea Mitchell Dismisses NBC News Poll Finding Americans Don?t Want to Raise Debt Limit | NewsBusters

Very interesting situation here. Has America finally woke up? Doesn't look like dems will be able to clobber the republicans over the head with this this time.

I think we should agree to raise it with a deal for zero based budgeting.

I believe that was done more than a decade ago.

That lasted only until Congress could declare an emergency so important it override the zero budgeting effect.

Can't remember what it was exactly..a war, perhaps one run off the budget?

Hmmmm now what POTUS ran a war completely off the books?

hmmmm

 

[007]

Won't matter in the end; it's going to get raised.

Yup, it will, and as sure at it's going to get raised, our economy is on a fast track to imploded.

Washington doesn't have an income problem, it has a spending problem.

End of story.

 

[rdean]

Are you dense? They are morons for not understanding something so simple but they aren't for electing an unknown on his bloviating alone?

You are a moron just stfu

Obama was vetted for over 2 years before he demolished McCain.

America liked what they saw, and rehired him.

Why do you hate democracy?

Monkey Butt is pissed. He posted this:

Grampa Murked U - Where, if anywhere, does personal responsibility fit into that? I made shit wages when I started out in life. In fact my first two bosses only hired me because of the tax incentives they got for hiring an ex con.

and I made it part of my signature line. This is someone who thinks American helping American is "socialism". He says someone should only help someone when they are not "forced" to help them, whatever that means. He says he gives to "charity". Wow, big deal. I pointed out that he was helped by the government he hates. People were paid to help, not because they were so "giving". That charity sucks. I told him earning a can of corn is better than being given a can of corn. I also pointed out that the Catholic charities receive most of their money from the government and I suspect so do most of the other charities.

He seems to think I was making fun of his immoral past. I don't even know or care what it was. But I do think that, "my first two bosses only hired me because of the tax incentives" isn't something you should deny to other people.

Many of these right wingers think they deserve to be helped because they are somehow "better", but others don't deserve to be helped because they must be lazy or somehow not worthy because of their race or something.

So he's stalking me with "gas or oil prices are volatile" or something. I don't even know. I don't pay attention to his ilk unless he says something interesting, which is rare, or relevant, which is also rare. Both interesting and relevant were in this post:

Grampa Murked U - Where, if anywhere, does personal responsibility fit into that? I made shit wages when I started out in life. In fact my first two bosses only hired me because of the tax incentives they got for hiring an ex con.

Even more than "is American helping American socialism", I would want the USMB right wingers to answer the question, "Was Lincoln a confederate". They seem to think he was. I just want that in print.

 

[TakeAStepBack]

No thanks. Not interested in any bullshit lessons. I prefer solving problems without undue suffering for the people of this nation.

Then why does everything you support only speed us close to that lesson?

I am not buying the claim that economic armageddon is inevitable. I think we can do what needs to be done.....and the things I support are a part of that.

Maybe you are confused about what it is I support?

You dont have to buy it. You can sit by and watch. Under current conditions, it's a mathematical certainty that we hit bottom. In fact, that's the name of this game. A race to the bottom.

 

[TakeAStepBack]

We're taxed enough already. Until these "elected officials" can show they are serious about debt reduction and actually cut spending on themselves and their friends, not one single dime more should be taken from anyone.

The whole argument is false on that note. The government doesn't own all the money and decide you can keep a little of what you earn. The government is bloated as it is and doesn't deserve a "raise" for its terrible record on spending and the use of the funds it confiscates.

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

Obama was vetted for over 2 years before he demolished McCain.

America liked what they saw, and rehired him.

Why do you hate democracy?

Monkey Butt is pissed. He posted this:

Grampa Murked U - Where, if anywhere, does personal responsibility fit into that? I made shit wages when I started out in life. In fact my first two bosses only hired me because of the tax incentives they got for hiring an ex con.

and I made it part of my signature line. This is someone who thinks American helping American is "socialism". He says someone should only help someone when they are not "forced" to help them, whatever that means. He says he gives to "charity". Wow, big deal. I pointed out that he was helped by the government he hates. People were paid to help, not because they were so "giving". That charity sucks. I told him earning a can of corn is better than being given a can of corn. I also pointed out that the Catholic charities receive most of their money from the government and I suspect so do most of the other charities.

He seems to think I was making fun of his immoral past. I don't even know or care what it was. But I do think that, "my first two bosses only hired me because of the tax incentives" isn't something you should deny to other people.

Many of these right wingers think they deserve to be helped because they are somehow "better", but others don't deserve to be helped because they must be lazy or somehow not worthy because of their race or something.

So he's stalking me with "gas or oil prices are volatile" or something. I don't even know. I don't pay attention to his ilk unless he says something interesting, which is rare, or relevant, which is also rare. Both interesting and relevant were in this post:

Grampa Murked U - Where, if anywhere, does personal responsibility fit into that? I made shit wages when I started out in life. In fact my first two bosses only hired me because of the tax incentives they got for hiring an ex con.

Even more than "is American helping American socialism", I would want the USMB right wingers to answer the question, "Was Lincoln a confederate". They seem to think he was. I just want that in print.

Having a nice conversation with yourself mr derp?

Lol, tool

 

[FA_Q2]

Top income rates have been higher than 75% in the past. There is an inverse correlation between top rates and job growth. As far as eliminating the debt entirely why don't you enlighten me?

No they have not. The fast and dirty comparison between past and present tax rates does not take into account that there are MASSIVE differences in the tax code itself making the comparison apples to oranges. The comparison leaves out so much as to be utterly useless.

Money supply = debt. Zero debt = no money at all. Look into how our monetary system works because if you don’t at least understand the basics there you can’t really understand what our debt and deficit means let alone how to effectively address it. I can only scratch the surface of this though there are some very knowledgeable posters here that have taught me a little on the subject.

Social Security is one of the finest programs of it's kind in the world. One minor tweak to remove the income cap and it will be there for generations to come. There is no "ponzi scheme" because no individual is profiting from it.

That is a lot of words without saying anything at all. I didn’t call it a Ponzi scheme though in essence that is the basic formula for it. No one, to this date, has EVER been able to display the difference. The end answer always ends up ‘because the government runs it.’

The fact is that it is set up as an insurance program (to cover the scheme up) and you want to fundamentally change it to a redistribution program. That along with other MASSIVE redistribution plans that you outlined. IOW, your answers are basically seeing an end to the wealthy. That does NOT raise the poor up to the middle – it lowers EVERYONE to poverty.

Simply because something is difficult does not mean that it cannot be done.

It cannot be done not because it is difficult but because it represents a removal of central power from the government, something that I don’t think has ever happened in our government willingly.

I will fight for it (and have) but I don’t see it actually happening. That does not mean I don’t have any hope but I am at least going to be realistic.

 

[FA_Q2]

Andrea Mitchell Dismisses NBC News Poll Finding Americans Don?t Want to Raise Debt Limit | NewsBusters

Very interesting situation here. Has America finally woke up? Doesn't look like dems will be able to clobber the republicans over the head with this this time.

It would be interesting to see what happened if we didn't raise the debt ceiling again. My prediction would be 20% unemployment within two years. The stock market would crash. Seniors would lose the vast majority of their life savings. We would have tens of thousands of homeless people in every state. The housing market would crash. The entire economy would crash. After all of that, we would become the USSA, the United Socialist States of America.

That is certainly the doomsday scenario. An alternative and more realistic one would be that the Treasury simply prints the money that it needs instead. The debt ceiling becomes irrelevant but the value of the dollar drops and interest rates take off as inflation ramps up. Seniors on fixed incomes are given increases that keep up with inflation. Businesses adjust their prices and salaries. The national debt shrinks in real terms even as the interest grows. After a decade or so everything calms back down again.

And all those people that are holding our debt just suck up the fact that the nation fucked them over the barrel, right? That is a recipe for insanity.

Why is obliterating our obligations through printing seen differently than defaulting? The results are the same – a complete mistrust of government fiscal policy and the dollar as a world currency. All you have to do is look at other nations that tried this. The outcome was NEVER positive.

As a side not – many of those that hold those debts are the seniors that you are claiming to ‘help’ by raising SS. What you are ensuring is that they all end up poor.

 

[bendog]

We need to shut down the gummint. We need zero deficits .... in fact that's the whole propblem. There's too dam much money floating around. We need to reduce total spending each year, and tell the Chinese where to stick it. That'll fix the economy.

 

[Redfish]

We need to shut down the gummint. We need zero deficits .... in fact that's the whole propblem. There's too dam much money floating around. We need to reduce total spending each year, and tell the Chinese where to stick it. That'll fix the economy.

actually it would fix it. It would be painful for almost everyone, but there is no solution that will not be painful.

Continuing to do nothing will destroy our economy, there is no question about that.

 

[Derideo_Te]

It would be interesting to see what happened if we didn't raise the debt ceiling again. My prediction would be 20% unemployment within two years. The stock market would crash. Seniors would lose the vast majority of their life savings. We would have tens of thousands of homeless people in every state. The housing market would crash. The entire economy would crash. After all of that, we would become the USSA, the United Socialist States of America.

That is certainly the doomsday scenario. An alternative and more realistic one would be that the Treasury simply prints the money that it needs instead. The debt ceiling becomes irrelevant but the value of the dollar drops and interest rates take off as inflation ramps up. Seniors on fixed incomes are given increases that keep up with inflation. Businesses adjust their prices and salaries. The national debt shrinks in real terms even as the interest grows. After a decade or so everything calms back down again.

And all those people that are holding our debt just suck up the fact that the nation fucked them over the barrel, right? That is a recipe for insanity.

Why is obliterating our obligations through printing seen differently than defaulting? The results are the same – a complete mistrust of government fiscal policy and the dollar as a world currency. All you have to do is look at other nations that tried this. The outcome was NEVER positive.

As a side not – many of those that hold those debts are the seniors that you are claiming to ‘help’ by raising SS. What you are ensuring is that they all end up poor.

Shutting down the government is an even greater insanity. This would just be the lesser of 2 evils and short of allowing the far right to hold the nation hostage it is a viable alternative to caving in to the demands of economic terrorism in my opinion. Personally I don't like either alternative but given that the Treasury dept has that tool at it's disposal it can do whatever it takes to keep the economy going.

As far as getting hurt is concerned those who are holding a gun to the debt ceiling are the ones who will be causing the harm to our creditors and seniors. Obviously they are not considering the damage they will do in order to get their way. Democracy is about compromise. Threatening to bring down the economy is economic terrorism in my opinion.

 

[Redfish]

That is certainly the doomsday scenario. An alternative and more realistic one would be that the Treasury simply prints the money that it needs instead. The debt ceiling becomes irrelevant but the value of the dollar drops and interest rates take off as inflation ramps up. Seniors on fixed incomes are given increases that keep up with inflation. Businesses adjust their prices and salaries. The national debt shrinks in real terms even as the interest grows. After a decade or so everything calms back down again.

And all those people that are holding our debt just suck up the fact that the nation fucked them over the barrel, right? That is a recipe for insanity.

Why is obliterating our obligations through printing seen differently than defaulting? The results are the same – a complete mistrust of government fiscal policy and the dollar as a world currency. All you have to do is look at other nations that tried this. The outcome was NEVER positive.

As a side not – many of those that hold those debts are the seniors that you are claiming to ‘help’ by raising SS. What you are ensuring is that they all end up poor.

Shutting down the government is an even greater insanity. This would just be the lesser of 2 evils and short of allowing the far right to hold the nation hostage it is a viable alternative to caving in to the demands of economic terrorism in my opinion. Personally I don't like either alternative but given that the Treasury dept has that tool at it's disposal it can do whatever it takes to keep the economy going.

As far as getting hurt is concerned those who are holding a gun to the debt ceiling are the ones who will be causing the harm to our creditors and seniors. Obviously they are not considering the damage they will do in order to get their way. Democracy is about compromise. Threatening to bring down the economy is economic terrorism in my opinion.

the sequester happened, it was supposed to destroy the economy, did it?

 

[Spoonman]

Andrea Mitchell Dismisses NBC News Poll Finding Americans Don?t Want to Raise Debt Limit | NewsBusters

Very interesting situation here. Has America finally woke up? Doesn't look like dems will be able to clobber the republicans over the head with this this time.

no we don't. we what to see practical spending cuts. for starters, lets stop aiding terrorists. it's time for a little america first. let's also start putting restrictions on our entitlements. and btw, SS and medicare aren't entitlements. When workers stop paying into them, then you can call them entitlements.

 

[Derideo_Te]

And all those people that are holding our debt just suck up the fact that the nation fucked them over the barrel, right? That is a recipe for insanity.

Why is obliterating our obligations through printing seen differently than defaulting? The results are the same – a complete mistrust of government fiscal policy and the dollar as a world currency. All you have to do is look at other nations that tried this. The outcome was NEVER positive.

As a side not – many of those that hold those debts are the seniors that you are claiming to ‘help’ by raising SS. What you are ensuring is that they all end up poor.

Shutting down the government is an even greater insanity. This would just be the lesser of 2 evils and short of allowing the far right to hold the nation hostage it is a viable alternative to caving in to the demands of economic terrorism in my opinion. Personally I don't like either alternative but given that the Treasury dept has that tool at it's disposal it can do whatever it takes to keep the economy going.

As far as getting hurt is concerned those who are holding a gun to the debt ceiling are the ones who will be causing the harm to our creditors and seniors. Obviously they are not considering the damage they will do in order to get their way. Democracy is about compromise. Threatening to bring down the economy is economic terrorism in my opinion.

the sequester happened, it was supposed to destroy the economy, did it?

Why don't you ask the parents of kids whose schools were forced to close? Or workers who can no longer make ends meet because they have been forced to take unpaid "furloughs"? How many of them are about to lose their homes? Hurting hardworking Americans and their children doesn't sound a good plan to me but you want to make it even worse?

 

[TakeAStepBack]

Andrea Mitchell Dismisses NBC News Poll Finding Americans Don?t Want to Raise Debt Limit | NewsBusters

Very interesting situation here. Has America finally woke up? Doesn't look like dems will be able to clobber the republicans over the head with this this time.

no we don't. we what to see practical spending cuts. for starters, lets stop aiding terrorists. it's time for a little america first. let's also start putting restrictions on our entitlements. and btw, SS and medicare aren't entitlements. When workers stop paying into them, then you can call them entitlements.

You're askign the most inefficient, corrupt, bloated, inept entituy on the planet to make "practical spending cuts". It sounds wonderful as a soundbite. But he reality of the situation is, it's never going to happen. History as already shown what happens to empires. ALL empires.

We're not going to be any different. We will hit the bottom and there will be a lot of suffering because of it. It's all the result of US monetary policy and spending.

 

[bendog]

We need to shut down the gummint. We need zero deficits .... in fact that's the whole propblem. There's too dam much money floating around. We need to reduce total spending each year, and tell the Chinese where to stick it. That'll fix the economy.

actually it would fix it. It would be painful for almost everyone, but there is no solution that will not be painful.

Continuing to do nothing will destroy our economy, there is no question about that.

Absolutely. Any country that runs a budget deficit is on the road to ruin. Deficits are proven to curtail economic growth.

 

[TakeAStepBack]

Short term deficits with budgets in place to handle them aren't disasterous. They can actually be helpful. Especially in trade. However, 75+ years of yearly deficits that builds into a jugggernaut of debt that can not be repaid is the recipe for absolute economic calamity.

 

[Darkwind]

Shutting down the government is an even greater insanity. This would just be the lesser of 2 evils and short of allowing the far right to hold the nation hostage it is a viable alternative to caving in to the demands of economic terrorism in my opinion. Personally I don't like either alternative but given that the Treasury dept has that tool at it's disposal it can do whatever it takes to keep the economy going.

As far as getting hurt is concerned those who are holding a gun to the debt ceiling are the ones who will be causing the harm to our creditors and seniors. Obviously they are not considering the damage they will do in order to get their way. Democracy is about compromise. Threatening to bring down the economy is economic terrorism in my opinion.

the sequester happened, it was supposed to destroy the economy, did it?

Why don't you ask the parents of kids whose schools were forced to close? Or workers who can no longer make ends meet because they have been forced to take unpaid "furloughs"? How many of them are about to lose their homes? Hurting hardworking Americans and their children doesn't sound a good plan to me but you want to make it even worse?

And you don't see it, do you?


You just outlined WHY government dependency and spending is so very wrong for this country.

BTW...how many people have lost their homes because the President has failed to work on the economy in lieu of a healthcare law that destroys jobs, and was unnecessary?

I don't see you or anyone crying about people losing full time jobs for part time jobs (isn't that what a furlough is, only on a temporary scale?) on a permanent basis.

There is only so much 'outrage' about sequestration people should be forced to listen too when other disasters of current policy are completely ignored.

The government MUST not spend money outside its income stream. If that means that there is some pain, it is preferable to the massive pain that is coming if we fail to act.

So, answer this question. Why won't the Democrats in the Senate and the White House not work with the Republicans?