An outright lie about the Mormon Church

[daws101]

One of my Prophets was advised by God to end the practice of polygamy because it violated the laws of the Country they lived in. Or haven't you ever heard that a good follower of God is to follow the laws of the lands in which he lives in as long as they are not against Gods laws?

The only problem with your fantasy story is that Utah wasn't part of the U.S. when it outlawed polygamy.

Thus your fake prophet outlawed the legal practice in Utah before it joined the U.S. as a state.

Making criminals out of faithful Mormons who were following the example of their cult Prophet Joseph Smith. .

Utah was a territory of the US from 1846 on. Due to the Mexican American war. US Law applied. Once again we are not a cult. Any more then Islam is a cult of Mohammad.

wrong! all religions are cults and cults religions.

The short version: the difference, in practice, between a cult and a religion is simply size. As in, number of people involved.

The long version: All religions, by their very definition, are cults. I see a few answers on here that say something along the lines of "yes, except true christianity."

Well, who decided which version is true? Are we talking about the pre-schism christianity where large swaths of the original text were expunged and suppressed? The congregations at all christian churches I've been to certainly seem to think they're true, but to me it all sounds like a poorly-translated ancient science fiction story.

The father is the son is the father is the god is the "holy" ghost, but only sometimes when it's convenient for the highly-edited narrative. And he committed the biggest sacrifice, like, ever, by dying for you but since he was his father and god and apparently a ghost anyway, he was just reborn after a couple days. Oh, and the cup that caught his blood is now magic and when you eat stale bread/styrofoam in this specific building it turns into, literally, his flesh. And wine becomes blood. For, uhm...reasons. Don't ask though because he doesn't like doubt and (depending upon your denomination) you'll be lit on fire and tortured until the end of all time if he catches on to your questioning, which of course he will because he knows/see/hears all. But only sometimes because we often like to pretend the old testament doesn't exist and we think the god described in the new testament, which was written by an entirely different set of people as a loose "sequel," is a bit less prone to exhibiting bipolar disorder.

Wait...what?

 

[RetiredGySgt]

The only problem with your fantasy story is that Utah wasn't part of the U.S. when it outlawed polygamy.

Thus your fake prophet outlawed the legal practice in Utah before it joined the U.S. as a state.

Making criminals out of faithful Mormons who were following the example of their cult Prophet Joseph Smith. .

Utah was a territory of the US from 1846 on. Due to the Mexican American war. US Law applied. Once again we are not a cult. Any more then Islam is a cult of Mohammad.

wrong! all religions are cults and cults religions.

The short version: the difference, in practice, between a cult and a religion is simply size. As in, number of people involved.

The long version: All religions, by their very definition, are cults. I see a few answers on here that say something along the lines of "yes, except true christianity."

Well, who decided which version is true? Are we talking about the pre-schism christianity where large swaths of the original text were expunged and suppressed? The congregations at all christian churches I've been to certainly seem to think they're true, but to me it all sounds like a poorly-translated ancient science fiction story.

The father is the son is the father is the god is the "holy" ghost, but only sometimes when it's convenient for the highly-edited narrative. And he committed the biggest sacrifice, like, ever, by dying for you but since he was his father and god and apparently a ghost anyway, he was just reborn after a couple days. Oh, and the cup that caught his blood is now magic and when you eat stale bread/styrofoam in this specific building it turns into, literally, his flesh. And wine becomes blood. For, uhm...reasons. Don't ask though because he doesn't like doubt and (depending upon your denomination) you'll be lit on fire and tortured until the end of all time if he catches on to your questioning, which of course he will because he knows/see/hears all. But only sometimes because we often like to pretend the old testament doesn't exist and we think the god described in the new testament, which was written by an entirely different set of people as a loose "sequel," is a bit less prone to exhibiting bipolar disorder.

Wait...what?

By Webster all religion is cult, BY practice of the English language that is not true. When one refers to a cult they are not referring to an established religion. And the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter day Saints is no cult.

I am sorry you are lost. There is still hope though if you seek it out.

 

[daws101]

Utah was a territory of the US from 1846 on. Due to the Mexican American war. US Law applied. Once again we are not a cult. Any more then Islam is a cult of Mohammad.

wrong! all religions are cults and cults religions.

The short version: the difference, in practice, between a cult and a religion is simply size. As in, number of people involved.

The long version: All religions, by their very definition, are cults. I see a few answers on here that say something along the lines of "yes, except true christianity."

Well, who decided which version is true? Are we talking about the pre-schism christianity where large swaths of the original text were expunged and suppressed? The congregations at all christian churches I've been to certainly seem to think they're true, but to me it all sounds like a poorly-translated ancient science fiction story.

The father is the son is the father is the god is the "holy" ghost, but only sometimes when it's convenient for the highly-edited narrative. And he committed the biggest sacrifice, like, ever, by dying for you but since he was his father and god and apparently a ghost anyway, he was just reborn after a couple days. Oh, and the cup that caught his blood is now magic and when you eat stale bread/styrofoam in this specific building it turns into, literally, his flesh. And wine becomes blood. For, uhm...reasons. Don't ask though because he doesn't like doubt and (depending upon your denomination) you'll be lit on fire and tortured until the end of all time if he catches on to your questioning, which of course he will because he knows/see/hears all. But only sometimes because we often like to pretend the old testament doesn't exist and we think the god described in the new testament, which was written by an entirely different set of people as a loose "sequel," is a bit less prone to exhibiting bipolar disorder.

Wait...what?

By Webster all religion is cult, BY practice of the English language that is not true. When one refers to a cult they are not referring to an established religion. And the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter day Saints is no cult.

I am sorry you are lost. There is still hope though if you seek it out.

the best rationalization award goes to.....

 

[daws101]

ever notice that believers inevitably say, when the flaws in their dogma are pointed out things like I'll pray for you or you're lost and I hope you'll find your way ?
I find those sort of statements highly offensive.
they infer a false superiority and knowledge.
Imo it's a chicken shit way to tell you to fuck off and a lot less honest.
I'M off the pulpit now.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

ever notice that believers inevitably say, when the flaws in their dogma are pointed out things like I'll pray for you or you're lost and I hope you'll find your way ?
I find those sort of statements highly offensive.
they infer a false superiority and knowledge.
Imo it's a chicken shit way to tell you to fuck off and a lot less honest.
I'M off the pulpit now.

You don't want a religious person to try to save you don't post in the religion forum where you attack their religion. You don't believe, that is fine, it is my duty to inform you that as a choice in my opinion that is a bad choice.

Everyone can be saved. But they have to want to be saved.

You admit you were on the path and then left it. I find that sad. But in the end we all have freedom of choice.

 

[Gracie]

There are "rebel" groups who are no longer recognized by the church but still call themselves Mormons. So saying all Mormons practice polygamy is like saying all Christians are bible thumpers.

If I take the Bible and customs of the Roman Catholic church along with the priesthood names but change parts to suit me, is that still the Roman catholic church? Even if I claim it is?

None of the excommunicated groups are Mormons. They were removed from the church. Just because a group names itself the Fundamental Church of Jesus Christ of Latter day Saints does not mean it is sanctioned, recognized or supported by the real church.

NO Mormon practices polygamy. NONE, NADA. Any group that does is NOT Mormon by definition, action and by sanction of the actual church.

Um. That's what I just said.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

There are "rebel" groups who are no longer recognized by the church but still call themselves Mormons. So saying all Mormons practice polygamy is like saying all Christians are bible thumpers.

If I take the Bible and customs of the Roman Catholic church along with the priesthood names but change parts to suit me, is that still the Roman catholic church? Even if I claim it is?

None of the excommunicated groups are Mormons. They were removed from the church. Just because a group names itself the Fundamental Church of Jesus Christ of Latter day Saints does not mean it is sanctioned, recognized or supported by the real church.

NO Mormon practices polygamy. NONE, NADA. Any group that does is NOT Mormon by definition, action and by sanction of the actual church.

Um. That's what I just said.

No you did not, you implied some Mormons do practice Polygamy. None do.

 

[JakeStarkey]

There is no evidence that the church practiced polygamy after 1890. Especially among those that lead the church. Those that claimed it was a false prophecy formed their own offshoots of the church.

Better go read the Reed Smoot hearings (1904) online, RGS. President Joseph F. Smith admitted to lying about the continuation of the practice after 1890. That set of hearings is what motivated President Smith cleared out two members (disenfranchised or excommunicated) of the Twelve and replaced every opening with a committed monogamist.

It took Presidents Smith and Grant to stomp it out inside the LDS church by the 1930s.

So your "evidence " the church secretly sanctioned Polygamy after 1890 is the fact the Church rooted it out and excommunicated those that secretly continued to practice it?

The evidence is that Wilford Woodruff, George Q. Cannon, Joseph F. Smith, Rudger Clawson, Stanley Ivins and several others (all GAs at one time or another) either/and cohabited with their wives, married plural wives, married others to plural wives, supported the principle after 1890. In 1904, Joseph F. Smith issued the second manifesto in trying to eliminate the practice after he was forced to admit at the Smoot hearings in D.C. that he had lied about the principle's continuance.

 

[Capstone]

The legitimate offspring of the original Church (per Joseph Smith's own hand) still adheres to the 1846 Nauvoo edition of Doctrines and Covenants ...and lends zero credence to the 1876 redaction of section 101 by the Church's illegitimate offspring. So, it could be said that true Mormons don't condemn the doctrine of plural marriage, whether they choose to practice it or not.

 

[Sunni Man]

When one refers to a cult they are not referring to an established religion. And the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter day Saints is no cult.

Every mainline Christian denomination considers the Mormons/LDS to be a cult. .

 

[editec]

There are "rebel" groups who are no longer recognized by the church but still call themselves Mormons. So saying all Mormons practice polygamy is like saying all Christians are bible thumpers.

If I take the Bible and customs of the Roman Catholic church along with the priesthood names but change parts to suit me, is that still the Roman catholic church? Even if I claim it is?

None of the excommunicated groups are Mormons. They were removed from the church. Just because a group names itself the Fundamental Church of Jesus Christ of Latter day Saints does not mean it is sanctioned, recognized or supported by the real church.

NO Mormon practices polygamy. NONE, NADA. Any group that does is NOT Mormon by definition, action and by sanction of the actual church.

And the embolded above shows us EXACTLY where the problem lies.

"the REAL church"

According to RGS, there is ONE LDS church and one ONLY.

Sadly, the nature of religion means that anybody can call themselves anything they choose.

Therefore:

The Poligamst LDSers have as much claim to the name LDS as the Church in SLC.

 

[rightwinger]

What percentage of Americans currently practicing polygamy are not Mormons?

 

[Avatar4321]

There are alot worse lies about the Church out there. My favorite is probably the one about the lizard people living in tunnels under Salt Lake City whom we supposedly truly worship. Sometimes you just have to laugh.

However, the Church didn't start excommunicating people entering into polygamous relations until the early 20th century. The Manifesto was thought to only apply to the United States. It was Joseph F Smith that finally made it clear that it was to apply to everyone in the Church.

Point is there are no polygamists in the Church. Those who claim to be polygamist mormons were either never in the Church or excommunicated quite a while ago. Regardless, we have no associations with them.

 

[Avatar4321]

What percentage of Americans currently practicing polygamy are not Mormons?

100%. Those who practice polygamy were either never in the Church or they were excommunicated from the Church.

 

[Avatar4321]

There are "rebel" groups who are no longer recognized by the church but still call themselves Mormons. So saying all Mormons practice polygamy is like saying all Christians are bible thumpers.

If I take the Bible and customs of the Roman Catholic church along with the priesthood names but change parts to suit me, is that still the Roman catholic church? Even if I claim it is?

None of the excommunicated groups are Mormons. They were removed from the church. Just because a group names itself the Fundamental Church of Jesus Christ of Latter day Saints does not mean it is sanctioned, recognized or supported by the real church.

NO Mormon practices polygamy. NONE, NADA. Any group that does is NOT Mormon by definition, action and by sanction of the actual church.

And the embolded above shows us EXACTLY where the problem lies.

"the REAL church"

According to RGS, there is ONE LDS church and one ONLY.

Sadly, the nature of religion means that anybody can call themselves anything they choose.

Therefore:

The Poligamst LDSers have as much claim to the name LDS as the Church in SLC.

There is only one. And no, they don't have a legal claim to the name.

 

[JakeStarkey]

All followers of the Restoration as propounded by Joseph Smith can be legitimately called Mormons.

The LDS have no legal exclusivity to the name.

Avatar, I know two families in SLC and two in Denver that are polygamous, temple-going members of the LDS church. I do imagine their priesthood file leadership are not aware of their situations.

 

[DGS49]

According to Brigham Young,

"Now if any of you will deny the plurality of wives, and continue to do so, I promise that you will be damned," (Journal of Discourses, vol. 3, p. 266).

and,

"The only men who become Gods, even the Sons of God, are those who enter into polygamy," (Journal of Discourses, vol. 11, p. 269).

Now, I personally think that Brigham Young was full of schidt, but I have the distinct impression that he was kind of a high muckety-muck in the early days of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints.

And when the leader of LDS makes a definitive moral pronouncement (and keep in mind, he was close in every way with the late Joe Smith), then that has some validity for the Church, right?

So.......did God change his mind on this? Or was Brigham Young wrong?

Do tell.

 

[Luddly Neddite]

We still have posters on this board posting that the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints supports condones and practices polygamy.

The Church forbade such practice in 1890. Anyone after that date that marries more then one wife is excommunicated and removed from the Church. No teachings are done on allowing polygamy and no support for it is given. Anyone caught practicing it is removed from the Church.

Those of you that keep repeating this lie have been told in those threads it is not true and yet you keep claiming it. That makes you liars.

Be so kind as to actually get your facts right for change.

All of Christianity is a lie so don't worry about one lie in the Mormon church, which is a branch of the false religion of Christianity.

There are a lot of lies about various religions and sects and cults but, in way you seem to be using the word, I'd have to disagree.

I think a more accurate word would be "fantasy".

*shrug*

If they leave other people alone, I don't care what particular fantasy they choose to believe.

Edited to add - IMO, the followers of Warren Jeff are worshiping a child predator and are themselves, predators who belong in jail.

 

[Luddly Neddite]

According to Brigham Young,

"Now if any of you will deny the plurality of wives, and continue to do so, I promise that you will be damned," (Journal of Discourses, vol. 3, p. 266).

and,

"The only men who become Gods, even the Sons of God, are those who enter into polygamy," (Journal of Discourses, vol. 11, p. 269).

Now, I personally think that Brigham Young was full of schidt, but I have the distinct impression that he was kind of a high muckety-muck in the early days of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints.

And when the leader of LDS makes a definitive moral pronouncement (and keep in mind, he was close in every way with the late Joe Smith), then that has some validity for the Church, right?

So.......did God change his mind on this? Or was Brigham Young wrong?

Do tell.

The US outlawed it.

That's why Mitten's family (and other morms) moved to Mexico.

If the US had not passed the law, is there really any reason to think they would not still be practicing polygamy?

 

[DGS49]

I think it's more accurate to say that the Church and the Territory of Utah outlawed it because if they had not, they would not have been admitted to the Union.

But still, Brigham Young was definitive on this. It was not contingent on the approval or sanction of the civil authorities.

Was he wrong or did God change Her mind?

Or did the Church do the pragmatic thing and decide to change ITS mind?