Toddsterpatriot
Diamond Member
Great! Thanks! We can even disagree with the fact that the banks were creating products designed to fail, (1) Morgan Stanley sued over alleged CDO fraud, (2) Banks That Bundled Bad Debt Also Bet Against ItThis has nothing to do with my points about what actually caused the meltdown. None of it addresses what happened in the runup to the Meltdown. NONE of it. Just the standard "it's all the regulations" stuff.You claim it is your profession. Well, I have a family member that was in the professional career as well, since retired, in state and then community banking. He watched the rate of closure of small banks happen over and over, as the regulations made it next to impossible to lend and to comply with the onerous paperwork and increased costs of compliance. Small businesses suffered because the community banks had a harder time lending to them even though they had successful loans with them previously. I could go on and on. Rather than help small banks, it created bigger and bigger big banks.
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They could not get lending themselves. Audits were constant and even the very slightest variation brought feds and big fines down on them.
You're invited to comment on my list of specifics, too.
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So far, no one has provided comment on the facts I have provided. No one has demonstrated a knowledge or understanding of how the pieces worked together. All I'm getting is deflection and party line. That's pretty telling.
If you folks don't know how CMOs and CDOs were constructed - out of thin air, with no regulations - how these shitbag "securities" (ha) were magically given Treasury-level ratings by Standard & Poors et al, how the very banks that were selling them were also shorting them knowing they were shit - even as it was all collapsing, how AIG was selling swaps on the shit with zero reserve requirements, that the mortgage and finance industries were in complete cahoots, knowingly and gleefully creating comically shit mortgages and packaging them into CMOs and (even worse) CDOs for massive fees, that the regulators (ha), especially Greenspan, aggressively refused to regulate ANY of it, on and on - fine. No problem. But let's not pretend, then, that you have (or even want) a full grasp of what happened.
I know that Fannie & Freddie played a part. I know that Frank was clearly oblivious to what was happening, and then after the fact tried to play the victimized hero. He's a politician, that's what they do. But to ignore the rest of the story is just absolutely ridiculous. The reason for this, of course, is obvious: The GOP wants to hang the Meltdown entire on the Dems. Come on.
And by the way, yes, the net result of what was done to stop the crash was larger, more powerful, more influential banks. I'm a proponent of reviving Glass Steagall so that this is no longer the case, and so that smaller banks can survive, compete and thrive.
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If you folks don't know how CMOs and CDOs were constructed - out of thin air, with no regulations - how these shitbag "securities" (ha) were magically given Treasury-level ratings by Standard & Poors et al, how the very banks that were selling them were also shorting them knowing they were shit
They created some, but not a lot, synthetic CMOs and CDOs.
Most CMOs and CDOs were not synthetic.
And they weren't ALSO shorting them.
When you sell a synthetic security you are, by definition, now short that security.
Unless they also went out and found a customer to take that short (like GS did with Abacus).
I'm sure you understand that the long list of specific examples I have provided played a significant role in the Meltdown.
Or it was all just the Democrats' fault, whichever.
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We can even disagree with the fact that the banks were creating products designed to fail,
That's awful!!
Who were the idiots that bought the crap?
If MS fraudulently failed to disclose the info about the CDOs, they should be punished,
if not, buyer beware.
I'm sure you understand that the long list of specific examples I have provided played a significant role in the Meltdown.
Yup. And the Fed. And the business cycle. And human nature. And positive feedbacks.