And obama spoke…..and the gates of Hell opened….obama to release 6,000 felons today...

[Ray From Cleveland]

check the out of wedlock birth rates going into the mid 60s vs. today and then track the crime rates among children of broken homes....see what it shows.

No, you. You're making the claim. It's your burden to prove. Until you do, you're spouting wild, speculative fantasies.

Rep. John Duncan Jr. says 90 percent of felons grew up in fatherless households
By Louis Jacobson on Thursday, April 18th, 2013 at 10:00 a.m.

"First, we looked at data from the Survey of Inmates in Local Jails, a sample of 7,000 inmates by the U.S. Justice Department.

In 1996, almost 40 percent of the sampled inmates had lived with both parents, with just over 60 percent of inmates saying they grew up with only one parent, with grandparents or in another arrangement. The numbers were similar in 2002 -- 44 percent growing up with both parents and 56 percent growing up in other situations.

These numbers suggest that there’s a strong link between growing up in a non-two-parent household and becoming an inmate, but at rates well below the 90 percent Duncan cited.

Second, we looked at data from the Justice Department’s Survey of Inmates in State and Federal Correctional Facilities. The 2004 survey asked inmates who were parents themselves about what kind of family arrangements they had while while growing up. In state prisons, 43 percent of the inmates said they grew up with both parents, while 57 percent said they grew up in other arrangements. The data was similar for federal prisons -- 45 percent with both parents and 55 percent in other arrangements."

Rep. John Duncan Jr. says 90 percent of felons grew up in fatherless households

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Our society has not changed that much in 30 years that we need five times the prison population

So what's your solution, quit arresting people and allow them to roam freely in society?

End the war on drugs. The war itself is worse than the cause. Making drugs illegal opens a market for criminals to make millions of dollars. When there is millions of dollars to be made....it opens the door for murder and other violence

End three strikes rules. Three strikes at a minor offense is still a minor offense

Review our sentencing guidelines. Why do criminals in our country serve so much more time than similar criminals in other countries?

Probably because our prison system is so much less of a deterrent than in other countries.

Question: how much experience have you had with drug users, in your neighborhood, in your family, amongst friends or at work? The reason I ask is because I've had plenty of experience with these people, and there is no way I would ever have your attitude towards the problem.

My house has been broken into. My house has been set afire to the point the destruction was almost a total loss. I've known several that committed suicide. I've even had a family member recently that lost her son due to an overdose. I've lost several friends in my lifetime because they smoked pot and became so paranoid they thought their friends were conspiring against them. I've had several tenants that were hooked or got hooked on drugs and it cost me thousands of dollars in lost rent and property destruction.

There are few if any experiences I've had with drug users that were positive, and not having laws and punishment for them would only make it much worse.

Frankly, I am willing to do whatever is necessary to get him off drugs
What I think is an unworkable solution is trying to imprison everyone in the heroin supply chain to keep your family member from getting at his drugs

Well he's dead now, so it really doesn't matter. Of course if the person that sold him the heroin were locked up before he made that sale, he might be alive today. Who knows?

 

[SwimExpert]

check the out of wedlock birth rates going into the mid 60s vs. today and then track the crime rates among children of broken homes....see what it shows.

No, you. You're making the claim. It's your burden to prove. Until you do, you're spouting wild, speculative fantasies.

Rep. John Duncan Jr. says 90 percent of felons grew up in fatherless households
By Louis Jacobson on Thursday, April 18th, 2013 at 10:00 a.m.

"First, we looked at data from the Survey of Inmates in Local Jails, a sample of 7,000 inmates by the U.S. Justice Department.

In 1996, almost 40 percent of the sampled inmates had lived with both parents, with just over 60 percent of inmates saying they grew up with only one parent, with grandparents or in another arrangement. The numbers were similar in 2002 -- 44 percent growing up with both parents and 56 percent growing up in other situations.

These numbers suggest that there’s a strong link between growing up in a non-two-parent household and becoming an inmate, but at rates well below the 90 percent Duncan cited.

Second, we looked at data from the Justice Department’s Survey of Inmates in State and Federal Correctional Facilities. The 2004 survey asked inmates who were parents themselves about what kind of family arrangements they had while while growing up. In state prisons, 43 percent of the inmates said they grew up with both parents, while 57 percent said they grew up in other arrangements. The data was similar for federal prisons -- 45 percent with both parents and 55 percent in other arrangements."

Rep. John Duncan Jr. says 90 percent of felons grew up in fatherless households

Again, I'm not saying that absent parents in the home don't contribute to children going down the wrong paths in life. But to suggest that that fact is responsible for the increases in incarceration we are seeing is unsubstantiated. Crime rates themselves have actually been going down for decades. So yes, these children are more likely to turn to a life of crime. But overall, crime is still on the decline.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

check the out of wedlock birth rates going into the mid 60s vs. today and then track the crime rates among children of broken homes....see what it shows.

No, you. You're making the claim. It's your burden to prove. Until you do, you're spouting wild, speculative fantasies.

Rep. John Duncan Jr. says 90 percent of felons grew up in fatherless households
By Louis Jacobson on Thursday, April 18th, 2013 at 10:00 a.m.

"First, we looked at data from the Survey of Inmates in Local Jails, a sample of 7,000 inmates by the U.S. Justice Department.

In 1996, almost 40 percent of the sampled inmates had lived with both parents, with just over 60 percent of inmates saying they grew up with only one parent, with grandparents or in another arrangement. The numbers were similar in 2002 -- 44 percent growing up with both parents and 56 percent growing up in other situations.

These numbers suggest that there’s a strong link between growing up in a non-two-parent household and becoming an inmate, but at rates well below the 90 percent Duncan cited.

Second, we looked at data from the Justice Department’s Survey of Inmates in State and Federal Correctional Facilities. The 2004 survey asked inmates who were parents themselves about what kind of family arrangements they had while while growing up. In state prisons, 43 percent of the inmates said they grew up with both parents, while 57 percent said they grew up in other arrangements. The data was similar for federal prisons -- 45 percent with both parents and 55 percent in other arrangements."

Rep. John Duncan Jr. says 90 percent of felons grew up in fatherless households

Again, I'm not saying that absent parents in the home don't contribute to children going down the wrong paths in life. But to suggest that that fact is responsible for the increases in incarceration we are seeing is unsubstantiated. Crime rates themselves have actually been going down for decades. So yes, these children are more likely to turn to a life of crime. But overall, crime is still on the decline.

Yes, but what race has the most prisoners in jail today percentage wise? That's right, black people; black people who currently have a 73% out of wedlock birth rate in the US. I think that says something right there.

 

[SwimExpert]

Yes, but what race has the most prisoners in jail today percentage wise? That's right, black people; black people who currently have a 73% out of wedlock birth rate in the US. I think that says something right there.

Sure. It tells us something about the factors that lead to criminals choosing their lifestyle. It does not, however, provide any information on why incarceration rates have skyrocketed during a time when crime rates have been decreasing. That is, unless you mean to imply that our criminal justice system has some kind of bias against black people. I'm inclined to reject that theory, and I imagine you are as well.

 

[2aguy]

Yeah...it has changed in 30 years...the single teenage motherhood rate is skyrocketing..that is what creates criminals....fatherless boys with no adult role models to keep them from turning into criminals...check the out of wedlock birth rates going into the mid 60s vs. today and then track the crime rates among children of broken homes....see what it shows.

Yet our violent crime rate has not increased five times in the last thirty years. In fact, it is down
Not because we are locking everyone up but because the crack wars of the 80s and 90s ended

The way to fight drugs is not to attack the supply chain. That only increases the money to be made and the resulting violence

No...if you look at incarceration rates...they went up starting in the 90s...so locking up criminals actually worked to lower the crime rate.....

Not to forget concealed carry laws going on line at the same time......

Actually it started in the early 80s. It is not working as our incarceration rate continues to increase

Self fulfilling prophesy

and for some strange reason our crime rate is dropping too....hmmm...incarceration rate goes up...crime rate keeps going down......

Nothing strange about it

Our gang led drug wars of the 90s have ended. Violent crimes across the nation have dropped

Our incarceration rate has not

again....our incarceration rate increased....our violent crime is decreasing....hmmmmm

 

[2aguy]

Yes, but what race has the most prisoners in jail today percentage wise? That's right, black people; black people who currently have a 73% out of wedlock birth rate in the US. I think that says something right there.

Sure. It tells us something about the factors that lead to criminals choosing their lifestyle. It does not, however, provide any information on why incarceration rates have skyrocketed during a time when crime rates have been decreasing. That is, unless you mean to imply that our criminal justice system has some kind of bias against black people. I'm inclined to reject that theory, and I imagine you are as well.

You've got the chicken/egg sequence wrong...our crime rates are decreasing as we incarcerated more criminals.......

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Yes, but what race has the most prisoners in jail today percentage wise? That's right, black people; black people who currently have a 73% out of wedlock birth rate in the US. I think that says something right there.

Sure. It tells us something about the factors that lead to criminals choosing their lifestyle. It does not, however, provide any information on why incarceration rates have skyrocketed during a time when crime rates have been decreasing. That is, unless you mean to imply that our criminal justice system has some kind of bias against black people. I'm inclined to reject that theory, and I imagine you are as well.

It depends on how you define crime rates. Are using and selling recreational narcotics a crime or not? I think it is. After all, the only way you end up in jail is if you commit a crime.

If you're trying to make a point that yes, we have an increase in our prison population because of narcotics, I can totally agree with that.

 

[SwimExpert]

You've got the chicken/egg sequence wrong...our crime rates are decreasing as we incarcerated more criminals.......

Such a claim presumes that incarceration happens before crime. In effect, you are advocating that we are an extreme police state.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Yet our violent crime rate has not increased five times in the last thirty years. In fact, it is down
Not because we are locking everyone up but because the crack wars of the 80s and 90s ended

The way to fight drugs is not to attack the supply chain. That only increases the money to be made and the resulting violence

No...if you look at incarceration rates...they went up starting in the 90s...so locking up criminals actually worked to lower the crime rate.....

Not to forget concealed carry laws going on line at the same time......

Actually it started in the early 80s. It is not working as our incarceration rate continues to increase

Self fulfilling prophesy

and for some strange reason our crime rate is dropping too....hmmm...incarceration rate goes up...crime rate keeps going down......

Nothing strange about it

Our gang led drug wars of the 90s have ended. Violent crimes across the nation have dropped

Our incarceration rate has not

again....our incarceration rate increased....our violent crime is decreasing....hmmmmm

Well, I would like to think that one of the reasons violent crime is decreasing is because since the mid 90's when violent crime started to decrease, it's proportional to the amount of states that adopted Conceal Carry laws and laws that protect the shooter.

Of course I have no evidence to support my claim. I'm just looking at the obvious.

 

[2aguy]

You've got the chicken/egg sequence wrong...our crime rates are decreasing as we incarcerated more criminals.......

Such a claim presumes that incarceration happens before crime. In effect, you are advocating that we are an extreme police state.

Nope....long term incarceration prevents future crimes....and those policies deal with new criminals and puts them away as well.....so you dry up current criminals and the more effective tools learned putting them away puts away the new criminals faster....

 

[2aguy]

No...if you look at incarceration rates...they went up starting in the 90s...so locking up criminals actually worked to lower the crime rate.....

Not to forget concealed carry laws going on line at the same time......

Actually it started in the early 80s. It is not working as our incarceration rate continues to increase

Self fulfilling prophesy

and for some strange reason our crime rate is dropping too....hmmm...incarceration rate goes up...crime rate keeps going down......

Nothing strange about it

Our gang led drug wars of the 90s have ended. Violent crimes across the nation have dropped

Our incarceration rate has not

again....our incarceration rate increased....our violent crime is decreasing....hmmmmm

Well, I would like to think that one of the reasons violent crime is decreasing is because since the mid 90's when violent crime started to decrease, it's proportional to the amount of states that adopted Conceal Carry laws and laws that protect the shooter.

Of course I have no evidence to support my claim. I'm just looking at the obvious.

There are many studies that show this.....

 

[SwimExpert]

It depends on how you define crime rates. Are using and selling recreational narcotics a crime or not? I think it is. After all, the only way you end up in jail is if you commit a crime.

If you're trying to make a point that yes, we have an increase in our prison population because of narcotics, I can totally agree with that.

Of course it's a crime. But once again, crime rates have been declining for decades. We are increasing incarceration by exacting more and more incarceration for drug crimes. It's not the crime rate that is increasing. We're just throwing more and more people in jail, and we're leaving them there longer. It's really quite disturbing. We are supposed to live in a free society, but we're increasing the rate at which we incarcerate people and we're increasing the sentences, all for victimless crimes. This isn't how a free society should be handling itself.

We need to reevaluate how we view and address drug use. We'd spend less money if we redirected funding toward addiction treatment, and come out with better results.

 

[SwimExpert]

so you dry up current criminals

You don't have any idea how freely drugs flow through prisons, do you?

 

[rightwinger]

Our society has not changed that much in 30 years that we need five times the prison population

So what's your solution, quit arresting people and allow them to roam freely in society?

End the war on drugs. The war itself is worse than the cause. Making drugs illegal opens a market for criminals to make millions of dollars. When there is millions of dollars to be made....it opens the door for murder and other violence

End three strikes rules. Three strikes at a minor offense is still a minor offense

Review our sentencing guidelines. Why do criminals in our country serve so much more time than similar criminals in other countries?

Probably because our prison system is so much less of a deterrent than in other countries.

Question: how much experience have you had with drug users, in your neighborhood, in your family, amongst friends or at work? The reason I ask is because I've had plenty of experience with these people, and there is no way I would ever have your attitude towards the problem.

My house has been broken into. My house has been set afire to the point the destruction was almost a total loss. I've known several that committed suicide. I've even had a family member recently that lost her son due to an overdose. I've lost several friends in my lifetime because they smoked pot and became so paranoid they thought their friends were conspiring against them. I've had several tenants that were hooked or got hooked on drugs and it cost me thousands of dollars in lost rent and property destruction.

There are few if any experiences I've had with drug users that were positive, and not having laws and punishment for them would only make it much worse.

Frankly, I am willing to do whatever is necessary to get him off drugs
What I think is an unworkable solution is trying to imprison everyone in the heroin supply chain to keep your family member from getting at his drugs

Well he's dead now, so it really doesn't matter. Of course if the person that sold him the heroin were locked up before he made that sale, he might be alive today. Who knows?

Sorry for your loss, but you can't lock up every possible source of drugs.

 

[SwimExpert]

Well, I would like to think that one of the reasons violent crime is decreasing is because since the mid 90's when violent crime started to decrease, it's proportional to the amount of states that adopted Conceal Carry laws and laws that protect the shooter.

Of course I have no evidence to support my claim. I'm just looking at the obvious.

I would surmise that violent crime has fallen because society as a whole is changing in ways that are less inclined to produce people who will turn to violent crimes.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

So what's your solution, quit arresting people and allow them to roam freely in society?

End the war on drugs. The war itself is worse than the cause. Making drugs illegal opens a market for criminals to make millions of dollars. When there is millions of dollars to be made....it opens the door for murder and other violence

End three strikes rules. Three strikes at a minor offense is still a minor offense

Review our sentencing guidelines. Why do criminals in our country serve so much more time than similar criminals in other countries?

Probably because our prison system is so much less of a deterrent than in other countries.

Question: how much experience have you had with drug users, in your neighborhood, in your family, amongst friends or at work? The reason I ask is because I've had plenty of experience with these people, and there is no way I would ever have your attitude towards the problem.

My house has been broken into. My house has been set afire to the point the destruction was almost a total loss. I've known several that committed suicide. I've even had a family member recently that lost her son due to an overdose. I've lost several friends in my lifetime because they smoked pot and became so paranoid they thought their friends were conspiring against them. I've had several tenants that were hooked or got hooked on drugs and it cost me thousands of dollars in lost rent and property destruction.

There are few if any experiences I've had with drug users that were positive, and not having laws and punishment for them would only make it much worse.

Frankly, I am willing to do whatever is necessary to get him off drugs
What I think is an unworkable solution is trying to imprison everyone in the heroin supply chain to keep your family member from getting at his drugs

Well he's dead now, so it really doesn't matter. Of course if the person that sold him the heroin were locked up before he made that sale, he might be alive today. Who knows?

Sorry for your loss, but you can't lock up every possible source of drugs.

Maybe not, but letting them all go back out on the streets would only make it worse.

 

[rightwinger]

It depends on how you define crime rates. Are using and selling recreational narcotics a crime or not? I think it is. After all, the only way you end up in jail is if you commit a crime.

If you're trying to make a point that yes, we have an increase in our prison population because of narcotics, I can totally agree with that.

Of course it's a crime. But once again, crime rates have been declining for decades. We are increasing incarceration by exacting more and more incarceration for drug crimes. It's not the crime rate that is increasing. We're just throwing more and more people in jail, and we're leaving them there longer. It's really quite disturbing. We are supposed to live in a free society, but we're increasing the rate at which we incarcerate people and we're increasing the sentences, all for victimless crimes. This isn't how a free society should be handling itself.

We need to reevaluate how we view and address drug use. We'd spend less money if we redirected funding toward addiction treatment, and come out with better results.

It would be cheaper if we took every addict and shipped them to a first rate resort till they got over their addiction

The cost of police, prisons and our murder rate cost society much more

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Well, I would like to think that one of the reasons violent crime is decreasing is because since the mid 90's when violent crime started to decrease, it's proportional to the amount of states that adopted Conceal Carry laws and laws that protect the shooter.

Of course I have no evidence to support my claim. I'm just looking at the obvious.

I would surmise that violent crime has fallen because society as a whole is changing in ways that are less inclined to produce people who will turn to violent crimes.

How would society collectively do that? I'd like to know the secret if there is one.

 

[rightwinger]

End the war on drugs. The war itself is worse than the cause. Making drugs illegal opens a market for criminals to make millions of dollars. When there is millions of dollars to be made....it opens the door for murder and other violence

End three strikes rules. Three strikes at a minor offense is still a minor offense

Review our sentencing guidelines. Why do criminals in our country serve so much more time than similar criminals in other countries?

Probably because our prison system is so much less of a deterrent than in other countries.

Question: how much experience have you had with drug users, in your neighborhood, in your family, amongst friends or at work? The reason I ask is because I've had plenty of experience with these people, and there is no way I would ever have your attitude towards the problem.

My house has been broken into. My house has been set afire to the point the destruction was almost a total loss. I've known several that committed suicide. I've even had a family member recently that lost her son due to an overdose. I've lost several friends in my lifetime because they smoked pot and became so paranoid they thought their friends were conspiring against them. I've had several tenants that were hooked or got hooked on drugs and it cost me thousands of dollars in lost rent and property destruction.

There are few if any experiences I've had with drug users that were positive, and not having laws and punishment for them would only make it much worse.

Frankly, I am willing to do whatever is necessary to get him off drugs
What I think is an unworkable solution is trying to imprison everyone in the heroin supply chain to keep your family member from getting at his drugs

Well he's dead now, so it really doesn't matter. Of course if the person that sold him the heroin were locked up before he made that sale, he might be alive today. Who knows?

Sorry for your loss, but you can't lock up every possible source of drugs.

Maybe not, but letting them all go back out on the streets would only make it worse.

Supply and demand

Keep the same demand for drugs and cut down the number of suppliers and you only increase the price of the product and the profit margin for the dealers