Another Ferguson cop caught lying

[Politico]

I thought STREET MEMORIALS were place adjacent to where the death occurred at the SIDE of the road, instead of being a late night accident prone location.... in the middle of a well traveled street.

Uh, that's not the subject of the thread.

You're right. The subject is why was someone suspended for stating the truth.

 

[Theowl32]

Local Police, Local Examiner, Local DA.... All independent....

Lets see what the Feds say...

At the end of the day and unarm guy was shot in the street... Your claim with very little to back you up is that the guy (who we believe have no aggressive drugs in his system) was an animal and was attacking a cop with a gun (for what seems no reason)...

Personally I think Wilson did things that led him to this position which weren't the best.. I think he was scared and he shot Brown because of that... Did Brown deserve that? Probably not.

But describing people as 'animals' is just the kind of bigoted thing you like to say... It show us more about you than Mike Brown.

Cowboy Ted you got me wondering about something that no one has mentioned. Did Wilson know Brown? Had they ever interacted with each other? No one has brought up the question of whether Wilson might have been a dirty cop who may have been on the take, with Michael Brown as a client who refused to pay or something like that. That certainly would explain the fisticuffs and struggle for the gun that followed the initial confrontation. I am not saying that was the case but that perspective was not considered at all. Given that Ferguson is a small town, it seems more than likely that Wilson would know an easily identifiable trouble maker like Brown. Just how intricate was that knowledge and to what degree were the two involved beyond public scrutiny?

Your words, and it seems that you like to test your very much hypothetical corrupt thinking to the max on this case but why ? It just can't go Wilson's way now can it for you, I mean it just can't right ? Is it all because it may wash years of corrupt thinking out into the open now, and maybe expose the long time intimidated federal governments role for whom will do just about anything to eternally coddle a group for whom thinks it needs eternal coddling by the feds forever and ever Amen?

Do you think that this will somehow wash everything down the drain if all is exposed now because Wilson was right and Michael Brown was in the wrong, but the town got burned down anyways ? These things could expose the agenda for all to see if not careful right ? I mean wow what exposure this has been too, so just keep on projecting as you do, because we all are watching, learning and listening to you here, and it is interesting to watch such stuff like this go on in the mind for which you write from.

This is only a message board Beagle9. It is not a courtroom where all the evidence inherent in a particular discussion is readily available to all. Most posters, including you, tend to research any given issue subjectively and therefore bypass pertinent information that might alter your preconceptions. It wouldn't have mattered if Brown was an alter boy who was shot for jaywalking. If the Blacks protested it, you would find some justification to defend the White officer who shot him.

Now there you go projecting again, and worse you are assigning to me your idea that I am a racist, when in fact I am not a racist, nor can you link me as being a racist, nor can you prove me as being a racist, but yet you can solve the case in Michael Browns favor without having all your so called pertinent information that you claim I needed ? If I don't have it, then that means you don't have it either, so who is the real biased racist here ? I think that would be you Mr. Q.

Alternatively, you would likely remain silent rather than admit cops sometimes kill unnecessarily; especially if the deceased is Black. All that is needed to convince you of the officer's innocence is the word of the cop or a White witness. Then you wonder why black Christians won't accept that.

Trying to label me a racist without any proof of that being true, well is unacceptable, but you as a racist can't help yourself now can you ? Just keep on projecting and get it all out of your brainwashed system finally, it will do you good come the new year maybe.

I have not branded you as a racist, per se`. If anything, l have simply caused you to reveal your solidarity with the America Taliban who call themselves right wing conservatives. The RW conservative gang to which you belong is chock full of racists. The KKK, The American Nazi Party and
seemingly every White hate group out there, has rallied under the narrow umbrella of neo-RW conservatism. Is there any reason to exclude you from guilt by association?

You are a fucking waste of time you pathetic lost cause. You are all fucking liars.

The fact you actually like being patronized by the racist democrats makes you lower than worm shit.

You are nothing but a fucking bag of cliches.

Slaves freed thanks to republicans
Black history month
United negro college fund
Section 8 housing
Blackpeoplemeet.com
Black president
Richest woman in America black
Black doctors
Black lawyers
Welfare
Fair housing act
Mlk day an official holiday thanks to republicans
Civil rights act 1964 thanks to republicans
Desegregated schools thanks to republicans

Yet the poor blacks still think they do not have a fair shot. Look at this pathetic example. The democrats (founders of kkk) have certainly played you like a 2 dollar banjo.

Poor little victims.

 

[beagle9]

Local Police, Local Examiner, Local DA.... All independent....

Lets see what the Feds say...

At the end of the day and unarm guy was shot in the street... Your claim with very little to back you up is that the guy (who we believe have no aggressive drugs in his system) was an animal and was attacking a cop with a gun (for what seems no reason)...

Personally I think Wilson did things that led him to this position which weren't the best.. I think he was scared and he shot Brown because of that... Did Brown deserve that? Probably not.

But describing people as 'animals' is just the kind of bigoted thing you like to say... It show us more about you than Mike Brown.

Cowboy Ted you got me wondering about something that no one has mentioned. Did Wilson know Brown? Had they ever interacted with each other? No one has brought up the question of whether Wilson might have been a dirty cop who may have been on the take, with Michael Brown as a client who refused to pay or something like that. That certainly would explain the fisticuffs and struggle for the gun that followed the initial confrontation. I am not saying that was the case but that perspective was not considered at all. Given that Ferguson is a small town, it seems more than likely that Wilson would know an easily identifiable trouble maker like Brown. Just how intricate was that knowledge and to what degree were the two involved beyond public scrutiny?

Your words, and it seems that you like to test your very much hypothetical corrupt thinking to the max on this case but why ? It just can't go Wilson's way now can it for you, I mean it just can't right ? Is it all because it may wash years of corrupt thinking out into the open now, and maybe expose the long time intimidated federal governments role for whom will do just about anything to eternally coddle a group for whom thinks it needs eternal coddling by the feds forever and ever Amen?

Do you think that this will somehow wash everything down the drain if all is exposed now because Wilson was right and Michael Brown was in the wrong, but the town got burned down anyways ? These things could expose the agenda for all to see if not careful right ? I mean wow what exposure this has been too, so just keep on projecting as you do, because we all are watching, learning and listening to you here, and it is interesting to watch such stuff like this go on in the mind for which you write from.

This is only a message board Beagle9. It is not a courtroom where all the evidence inherent in a particular discussion is readily available to all. Most posters, including you, tend to research any given issue subjectively and therefore bypass pertinent information that might alter your preconceptions. It wouldn't have mattered if Brown was an alter boy who was shot for jaywalking. If the Blacks protested it, you would find some justification to defend the White officer who shot him.

Now there you go projecting again, and worse you are assigning to me your idea that I am a racist, when in fact I am not a racist, nor can you link me as being a racist, nor can you prove me as being a racist, but yet you can solve the case in Michael Browns favor without having all your so called pertinent information that you claim I needed ? If I don't have it, then that means you don't have it either, so who is the real biased racist here ? I think that would be you Mr. Q.

Alternatively, you would likely remain silent rather than admit cops sometimes kill unnecessarily; especially if the deceased is Black. All that is needed to convince you of the officer's innocence is the word of the cop or a White witness. Then you wonder why black Christians won't accept that.

Trying to label me a racist without any proof of that being true, well is unacceptable, but you as a racist can't help yourself now can you ? Just keep on projecting and get it all out of your brainwashed system finally, it will do you good come the new year maybe.

I have not branded you as a racist, per se`. If anything, l have simply caused you to reveal your solidarity with the America Taliban who call themselves right wing conservatives. The RW conservative gang to which you belong is chock full of racists. The KKK, The American Nazi Party and
seemingly every White hate group out there, has rallied under the narrow umbrella of neo-RW conservatism. Is there any reason to exclude you from guilt by association?

I don't subscribe to guilt by association like some, but a true racist will try and use anything as an excuse to project or attack with, and it appears that you know something about that tactic also, because your using it as expected.

 

[beagle9]

I wonder what sort of pressures were being put on who in order to allow that so called memorial to be placed in the middle of the road/street like that ? I tell ya that white people if they participated in it, have got to be some of the most weakest gullible and ignorant people on this planet anymore, and this because it has been made a racist case by the blacks, and it directly attacks whites based upon their skin color, and a history surrounding their skin color in which the blacks (some not all), use to condemn them with on a daily basis.

I mean if they went along with that concept or thinking then they are just kissing up to something that was a lie, and it's just getting worse and worse and worse for those who are white, and then to do such a thing as participate in that ? Good Grief!

Years of becoming corrupted because they (the blacks (some of them) figured that they had to become corrupt in order to get at the man somehow, has been taken into the new generations as a method of survival according to JQ, but that's not what it is at all anymore, because it's more about extortion these days, and more so than anything else I think. I mean just listen to JQ and his opinions, and you will see a person that thinks that whites are all racist because well they are white, and blacks are all just beat down victims here in 2015 because well they are black. Now how crazy is all this to be going on in 2015 still ? This attitude has become a way of extortion these days by some, and it is used to extort with, and if not then (such issues) would have finally receded and assimilated the people and cultures together just as it should have in America by now, but here we are all watching this continue right on and right on with no end in sight. There is no race problem in this nation as according to ones color (IMHO), but I will concede that there is a Class Warfare problem that goes on in this nation for sure. Now as soon as people understand that one, then they can unite in that way in order to battle something that is a real problem in this nation, because the race thing is only a distraction that works wonders for those who use class warfare tactics on all of us when we are distracted, and they use it on a daily basis also.

Trust me that color has nothing to do with anything much if anything at all when one gets down to it, because if you unite under a just cause of any kind in this nation (color blind), then you can get something done on just about any issue, but as soon as ones color becomes the issue, then all the devils come out to make us all look a fool in such a thing that is sooooo stupid when we all think about it.

As long as you have JQ's, Al Sharpton's, Jessie Jackson's, MSMBC, NPR, and on and on it all goes out there perpetuating this stuff, and a few rogue cops out there somewhere making a bad name for those who are good in which idiots like Deblasio try and exploit, then the population will have to get smarter than they are in not allowing lies to be lifted up, and then the truth to be squashed in these situations. The population has to come together under an American flag that is united and not divided finally.

I wish Obama would learn this, but it ain't happening with that fellow, because he is too far gone if you ask me. He made a statement the other day that poor black communities and poor Latino (kissing butt for democrat votes again by dividing again), has always suffered this sort of stuff. See how he places the Latino's in there also ? He is a divider and a political motivated vote pimping pimp myster, and he will keep on dividing along racial lines until he is out of there. He is a huge mistake for this nation and for the world.

 

[dannyboys]

Cowboy Ted you got me wondering about something that no one has mentioned. Did Wilson know Brown? Had they ever interacted with each other? No one has brought up the question of whether Wilson might have been a dirty cop who may have been on the take, with Michael Brown as a client who refused to pay or something like that. That certainly would explain the fisticuffs and struggle for the gun that followed the initial confrontation. I am not saying that was the case but that perspective was not considered at all. Given that Ferguson is a small town, it seems more than likely that Wilson would know an easily identifiable trouble maker like Brown. Just how intricate was that knowledge and to what degree were the two involved beyond public scrutiny?

I wouldn't speculate that much but you do make some very valid points. There is only 21,000 living in the town, if Mike Brown was actually a trouble maker then they would have known him easily.

I think there is a lot of information we haven't seen... I understand it is very hard for a Local DA who relies on the cops day in day out to then turn around and prosecute one of them.

I am from Ireland and if a cop shoots a citizen we take it very serious. Cops are there to protect and serve, not shoot citizens of the state...
I did some digging and the last person killed by Irish Police is in 2000 (yes, 14 years ago). Welcome to a gun free society.
Death of John Carthy - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

The guy was mentally unstable and charged out is door with a shotgun. The investigation cost $12m (this included paying the FBI to help) and a tribunal. The family got about $0.5m.

This is an issue about the rights of an individual to live free without fear from the police killing you. They are there to protect.

He makes some valid points. I swear to God every fucking liberal is a complete waste of brainwashed patronizing racist shit.

Fuck you.

LOL at you being wrong about everything.

Well JQ did point out in a 21,000 population town the local law enforcement knows people who have broken the law in the past.

It kind of brings up a lot of questions concerning your assumptions...

I know that your only answer is 'Fuck you' but that is because that is as far as your intellect goes and been confronted by reasoned debate involves you getting aggressive. Much like in the death of Eric Garner.

Now there is a general rule in debating any subject (as I learnt in University). If your opponent say 'Fuck you', you kind of won.

The word is not "University". It is 'university'.
The word is not "learnt". It is 'learned'.
The word is not "say". It is 'says'.
What university did you attend? The University of Uranus?
Another illiterate moron.

Spelling & Grammar you must have been the best boy.

Now since that has very little to do with my argument, I presume you have no answer and thus are in fact losers.

I have actually attended two universities...

Also dumbass, I said university as a pronoun and thus capitalised it.
'Learnt' is a perfectly good word. - Learnt or learned - Oxford Dictionaries

And my arguement is kind of validated now...

"best boy"? So you never attended an American university. Britain or Asia.
The word is 'loser' not "losers". There's only one of me.
You never "said" anything fool.
Go sue the 'universities' you claim to have attended for non-performance. With the money buy a English grammar book. You may stop making a habitual fool of yourself here.
Your problem is you're stupid and "you can't fix stupid".

 

[Synthaholic]

Local Police, Local Examiner, Local DA.... All independent....

Lets see what the Feds say...

At the end of the day and unarm guy was shot in the street... Your claim with very little to back you up is that the guy (who we believe have no aggressive drugs in his system) was an animal and was attacking a cop with a gun (for what seems no reason)...

Personally I think Wilson did things that led him to this position which weren't the best.. I think he was scared and he shot Brown because of that... Did Brown deserve that? Probably not.

But describing people as 'animals' is just the kind of bigoted thing you like to say... It show us more about you than Mike Brown.

Cowboy Ted you got me wondering about something that no one has mentioned. Did Wilson know Brown? Had they ever interacted with each other? No one has brought up the question of whether Wilson might have been a dirty cop who may have been on the take, with Michael Brown as a client who refused to pay or something like that. That certainly would explain the fisticuffs and struggle for the gun that followed the initial confrontation. I am not saying that was the case but that perspective was not considered at all. Given that Ferguson is a small town, it seems more than likely that Wilson would know an easily identifiable trouble maker like Brown. Just how intricate was that knowledge and to what degree were the two involved beyond public scrutiny?

Your words, and it seems that you like to test your very much hypothetical corrupt thinking to the max on this case but why ? It just can't go Wilson's way now can it for you, I mean it just can't right ? Is it all because it may wash years of corrupt thinking out into the open now, and maybe expose the long time intimidated federal governments role for whom will do just about anything to eternally coddle a group for whom thinks it needs eternal coddling by the feds forever and ever Amen?

Do you think that this will somehow wash everything down the drain if all is exposed now because Wilson was right and Michael Brown was in the wrong, but the town got burned down anyways ? These things could expose the agenda for all to see if not careful right ? I mean wow what exposure this has been too, so just keep on projecting as you do, because we all are watching, learning and listening to you here, and it is interesting to watch such stuff like this go on in the mind for which you write from.

This is only a message board Beagle9. It is not a courtroom where all the evidence inherent in a particular discussion is readily available to all. Most posters, including you, tend to research any given issue subjectively and therefore bypass pertinent information that might alter your preconceptions. It wouldn't have mattered if Brown was an alter boy who was shot for jaywalking. If the Blacks protested it, you would find some justification to defend the White officer who shot him.

Now there you go projecting again, and worse you are assigning to me your idea that I am a racist, when in fact I am not a racist, nor can you link me as being a racist, nor can you prove me as being a racist, but yet you can solve the case in Michael Browns favor without having all your so called pertinent information that you claim I needed ? If I don't have it, then that means you don't have it either, so who is the real biased racist here ? I think that would be you Mr. Q.

Alternatively, you would likely remain silent rather than admit cops sometimes kill unnecessarily; especially if the deceased is Black. All that is needed to convince you of the officer's innocence is the word of the cop or a White witness. Then you wonder why black Christians won't accept that.

Trying to label me a racist without any proof of that being true, well is unacceptable, but you as a racist can't help yourself now can you ? Just keep on projecting and get it all out of your brainwashed system finally, it will do you good come the new year maybe.

I have not branded you as a racist, per se`. If anything, l have simply caused you to reveal your solidarity with the America Taliban who call themselves right wing conservatives. The RW conservative gang to which you belong is chock full of racists. The KKK, The American Nazi Party and
seemingly every White hate group out there, has rallied under the narrow umbrella of neo-RW conservatism. Is there any reason to exclude you from guilt by association?

The Stormfront crowd is not 'Ready For Hillary'.

 

[beagle9]

Cowboy Ted you got me wondering about something that no one has mentioned. Did Wilson know Brown? Had they ever interacted with each other? No one has brought up the question of whether Wilson might have been a dirty cop who may have been on the take, with Michael Brown as a client who refused to pay or something like that. That certainly would explain the fisticuffs and struggle for the gun that followed the initial confrontation. I am not saying that was the case but that perspective was not considered at all. Given that Ferguson is a small town, it seems more than likely that Wilson would know an easily identifiable trouble maker like Brown. Just how intricate was that knowledge and to what degree were the two involved beyond public scrutiny?

Your words, and it seems that you like to test your very much hypothetical corrupt thinking to the max on this case but why ? It just can't go Wilson's way now can it for you, I mean it just can't right ? Is it all because it may wash years of corrupt thinking out into the open now, and maybe expose the long time intimidated federal governments role for whom will do just about anything to eternally coddle a group for whom thinks it needs eternal coddling by the feds forever and ever Amen?

Do you think that this will somehow wash everything down the drain if all is exposed now because Wilson was right and Michael Brown was in the wrong, but the town got burned down anyways ? These things could expose the agenda for all to see if not careful right ? I mean wow what exposure this has been too, so just keep on projecting as you do, because we all are watching, learning and listening to you here, and it is interesting to watch such stuff like this go on in the mind for which you write from.

This is only a message board Beagle9. It is not a courtroom where all the evidence inherent in a particular discussion is readily available to all. Most posters, including you, tend to research any given issue subjectively and therefore bypass pertinent information that might alter your preconceptions. It wouldn't have mattered if Brown was an alter boy who was shot for jaywalking. If the Blacks protested it, you would find some justification to defend the White officer who shot him.

Now there you go projecting again, and worse you are assigning to me your idea that I am a racist, when in fact I am not a racist, nor can you link me as being a racist, nor can you prove me as being a racist, but yet you can solve the case in Michael Browns favor without having all your so called pertinent information that you claim I needed ? If I don't have it, then that means you don't have it either, so who is the real biased racist here ? I think that would be you Mr. Q.

Alternatively, you would likely remain silent rather than admit cops sometimes kill unnecessarily; especially if the deceased is Black. All that is needed to convince you of the officer's innocence is the word of the cop or a White witness. Then you wonder why black Christians won't accept that.

Trying to label me a racist without any proof of that being true, well is unacceptable, but you as a racist can't help yourself now can you ? Just keep on projecting and get it all out of your brainwashed system finally, it will do you good come the new year maybe.

I have not branded you as a racist, per se`. If anything, l have simply caused you to reveal your solidarity with the America Taliban who call themselves right wing conservatives. The RW conservative gang to which you belong is chock full of racists. The KKK, The American Nazi Party and
seemingly every White hate group out there, has rallied under the narrow umbrella of neo-RW conservatism. Is there any reason to exclude you from guilt by association?

The Stormfront crowd is not 'Ready For Hillary'.

What is stormfront ? Hillary has been caught in numerous lies also, and that is who you all want to represent you ? What is it then, that liars want to stick together like glue these days ?

 

[Katzndogz]

Street memorials are not intended nor supposed to last forever. It's been months. The trash has got to go.

 

[Synthaholic]

Street memorials are not intended nor supposed to last forever. It's been months. The trash has got to go.

Not what the thread is about, dope.

 

[beagle9]

Street memorials are not intended nor supposed to last forever. It's been months. The trash has got to go.

Not what the thread is about, dope.

Then what is the thread about ?

 

[Synthaholic]

Then what is the thread about ?

Lying Ferguson cops.

 

[skookerasbil]

nobody cares about Mike Brown or Ferguson.

 

[MaryL]

Damn. Too bad we can't expect the black community to so honest or non violent, wouldn't that be great?

 

[beagle9]

Then what is the thread about ?

Lying Ferguson cops.

And what were the lies about ? Come on I know you can get there...

 

[Synthaholic]

Then what is the thread about ?

Lying Ferguson cops.

And what were the lies about ? Come on I know you can get there...

Since you didn't read the OP:

Zoll initially claimed he had been misquoted. However, police announced on Saturday that Zoll was “confronted with the results” of an internal probe and “admitted to department investigators” he had made the comment and “misled” authorities. In addition to the unpaid leave, Ferguson police are beginning disciplinary hearings against Zoll.

 

[beagle9]

Damn. Too bad we can't expect the black community to so honest or non violent, wouldn't that be great?

Well until a new justice system is created just for them, then it ain't happening because they (the ones who hate the current one) won't honor or trust the one we have now in America.

Then what is the thread about ?

Lying Ferguson cops.

And what were the lies about ? Come on I know you can get there...

Since you didn't read the OP:

Zoll initially claimed he had been misquoted. However, police announced on Saturday that Zoll was “confronted with the results” of an internal probe and “admitted to department investigators” he had made the comment and “misled” authorities. In addition to the unpaid leave, Ferguson police are beginning disciplinary hearings against Zoll.

What was he misquoted about ? The so called memorial in the middle of the street right ? I mean at what point does that enter into the picture ? At any point right, because that is what he is being attacked about right ?

 

[Where_r_my_Keys]

WHOA! Making disparaging comments against the memorial of THIS Mike Brown?



.

.

.

ROFLMNAO!

 

[Where_r_my_Keys]

Damn. Too bad we can't expect the black community to so honest or non violent, wouldn't that be great?

Well until a new justice system is created just for them, then it ain't happening because they (the ones who hate the current one) won't honor or trust the one we have now in America.

Then what is the thread about ?

Lying Ferguson cops.

And what were the lies about ? Come on I know you can get there...

Since you didn't read the OP:

Zoll initially claimed he had been misquoted. However, police announced on Saturday that Zoll was “confronted with the results” of an internal probe and “admitted to department investigators” he had made the comment and “misled” authorities. In addition to the unpaid leave, Ferguson police are beginning disciplinary hearings against Zoll.

What was he misquoted about ? The so called memorial in the middle of the street right ? I mean at what point does that enter into the picture ? At any point right, because that is what he is being attacked about right ?

The town burning idiots, like Mike Brown, are inculcated in "Relativism"

Relativism is the doctrine which holds that knowledge, truth, and morality exist only in relation to one's cultural, societal, historical and personal context, and, as such can never be the result of soundly reasoned absolutes.

It is through this deviation in reason that relativism axiomatically rejects the objectivity which is essential to truth.

And with truth being essential to trust and, both of those being critical to the establishment of a soundly reasoned morality, and because a soundly reasoned morality is essential to Justice... it becomes clear to reasonable people, that Relativism can never serve justice.

There's no hope for 'em... .

 

[beagle9]

WHOA! Making disparaging comments against the memorial of THIS Mike Brown?



.

.

.

ROFLMNAO!

So you mean to tell me that this is the Michael Brown that these people burnt their town down for ????? You have got to be kidding me right ? I can definitely see why Officer Wilson may have had a struggle with this guy, in fact I bet Wilson was in great fear of his life when he was struggling to keep his gun away from this guy.. WOW! Talk about driving up into a hornets nest... Good Grief. Al Sharpton should be fired immediately from MSNBC. Any self respecting citizen white or black can see the problems here...On another note that Deblasio should resign also, because he is another race pimper who went to far (IMHO).

It's really amazing how people defended this guy Michael as if he was this innocent young black male who was on his way to college soon or what ever they were saying about him in order to burn Wilson's career and lively hood to the ground, and worse along with their own town in the process all because of. I bet there are a lot of blacks who might see this video, and will become sickened as to how they were duped to go along with this specific situation like they were.... I MEAN WOW if that is Michael Brown (WOW).

 

[Synthaholic]

Damn. Too bad we can't expect the black community to so honest or non violent, wouldn't that be great?

Well until a new justice system is created just for them, then it ain't happening because they (the ones who hate the current one) won't honor or trust the one we have now in America.

Then what is the thread about ?

Lying Ferguson cops.

And what were the lies about ? Come on I know you can get there...

Since you didn't read the OP:

Zoll initially claimed he had been misquoted. However, police announced on Saturday that Zoll was “confronted with the results” of an internal probe and “admitted to department investigators” he had made the comment and “misled” authorities. In addition to the unpaid leave, Ferguson police are beginning disciplinary hearings against Zoll.

What was he misquoted about ? The so called memorial in the middle of the street right ? I mean at what point does that enter into the picture ? At any point right, because that is what he is being attacked about right ?

You can lead a wingnut to knowledge but you can't make him think.