Anti-Islam ads on NYC buses. Whose side are you on?

[Coyote]

I'm still waiting for a Muslim mass rally denouncing 9/11. I side with Pamela Geller.

It's always interesting to see who sides with hate.

it's always interesting to see how the HATERS WITH THE MOSTEST HATE------redefine "hate"

Justifying the massacre of children by a terrorist would, in my mind, constitute hate.

 

[irosie91]

I'm still waiting for a Muslim mass rally denouncing 9/11. I side with Pamela Geller.

It's always interesting to see who sides with hate.

it's always interesting to see how the HATERS WITH THE MOSTEST HATE------redefine "hate"

Justifying the massacre of children by a terrorist would, in my mind, constitute hate.

yes it would----that is why islamo Nazi pigs tried to create a libel against Ms Pam Geller claiming that she justified
a massacre of children

 

[Uncensored2008]

Not sure how an Ottoman map makes me a liar, but that's super. The simple fact is that the Palestinian National Congresses held both before and after WWI never supported political union between Palestine and Jordan. They briefly supported political union between Syria, Lebanon, and Palestine, but subsequently voted in favor of Palestinian independence and separatism. Palestine Arab Congress - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

Since the map is of "Palestine," and clearly includes all of Jordan, all of Lebanon, all of Israel, and the Southern portion of Syria, it is pretty dishonest to claim that Jordan is not Arab Palestine.

Despite a bit of chicanery by the Israel hating league, Palestine was never a country or a nation, only a region - similar to "The Mid-West" or "New England." Bostonian's may not have a "political union" with New York, but they remain New Englanders.

It is also entirely disingenuous to speak of political unions under the Caliphate - all were subjects of the Ottoman - so Wiki and you are blowing anti-Israel smoke.

 

[Uncensored2008]

I don't hate anyone. I just disagree with some of them.

I suspect that Israelis might find your stance that they don't have a right to exist as a bit more than a simple disagreement.

 

[Osomir]

Not sure how an Ottoman map makes me a liar, but that's super. The simple fact is that the Palestinian National Congresses held both before and after WWI never supported political union between Palestine and Jordan. They briefly supported political union between Syria, Lebanon, and Palestine, but subsequently voted in favor of Palestinian independence and separatism. Palestine Arab Congress - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

Since the map is of "Palestine," and clearly includes all of Jordan, all of Lebanon, all of Israel, and the Southern portion of Syria, it is pretty dishonest to claim that Jordan is not Arab Palestine.

Despite a bit of chicanery by the Israel hating league, Palestine was never a country or a nation, only a region - similar to "The Mid-West" or "New England." Bostonian's may not have a "political union" with New York, but they remain New Englanders.

It is also entirely disingenuous to speak of political unions under the Caliphate - all were subjects of the Ottoman - so Wiki and you are blowing anti-Israel smoke.

The congresses that I posted took place after WWI within the auspice of European colonialism / league of nations. It's also not disingenuous to speak of Arab nationalist movements that sprung up even prior to that against Ottoman rule.

 

[Uncensored2008]

Justifying the massacre of children by a terrorist would, in my mind, constitute hate.

The PLO is a terrorist organization which has massacred countless children, both Arab and Jew. Don't you support the PLO, and thus justify their acts?

 

[Osomir]

Not sure how an Ottoman map makes me a liar, but that's super. The simple fact is that the Palestinian National Congresses held both before and after WWI never supported political union between Palestine and Jordan. They briefly supported political union between Syria, Lebanon, and Palestine, but subsequently voted in favor of Palestinian independence and separatism. Palestine Arab Congress - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

Since the map is of "Palestine," and clearly includes all of Jordan, all of Lebanon, all of Israel, and the Southern portion of Syria, it is pretty dishonest to claim that Jordan is not Arab Palestine.

That map with Palestine on it doesn't include all of Jordan. 1.) there are no border demarcations of administrative regions. 2.) The Palestinian identity marker is to the left of the Jordan river, not spanning modern day Jordanian territory.

I'll also see your map, and raise you another from the same source you pulled yours from:

Notice the administrative divisions. Regardless, Ottoman political divisions were very fluid, and using Turkish administrative structures to attempt to define Arab national identities isn't a very good way for you to go.

 

[irosie91]

Not sure how an Ottoman map makes me a liar, but that's super. The simple fact is that the Palestinian National Congresses held both before and after WWI never supported political union between Palestine and Jordan. They briefly supported political union between Syria, Lebanon, and Palestine, but subsequently voted in favor of Palestinian independence and separatism. Palestine Arab Congress - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

Since the map is of "Palestine," and clearly includes all of Jordan, all of Lebanon, all of Israel, and the Southern portion of Syria, it is pretty dishonest to claim that Jordan is not Arab Palestine.

Despite a bit of chicanery by the Israel hating league, Palestine was never a country or a nation, only a region - similar to "The Mid-West" or "New England." Bostonian's may not have a "political union" with New York, but they remain New Englanders.

It is also entirely disingenuous to speak of political unions under the Caliphate - all were subjects of the Ottoman - so Wiki and you are blowing anti-Israel smoke.

The congresses that I posted took place after WWI within the auspice of European colonialism / league of nations. It's also not disingenuous to speak of Arab nationalist movements that sprung up even prior to that against Ottoman rule.

of course-----no question-----there were lots of arab nationalist movements against the OTTOMAN RULE and
mutual hatred SO? ALWAYS several factions --fighting both the controlling powers and each other. What else is new? In fact the American Indians of the plains -----fought each other too.
What is "EUROPEAN COLONIALISM" is that somehow different from OTTOMAN COLONIALISM?
or MOGHUL COLONIALISM? ------or MAYAN
COLONIALISM?------what are we going to call ROMAN COLONIALISM-------I favor calling it MEDITERRANEAN
COLONIALISM--------the lands masses about the
MEDETERRANEAN------seem sorta NATION like to
to me-------even genetically

 

[Osomir]

Not sure how an Ottoman map makes me a liar, but that's super. The simple fact is that the Palestinian National Congresses held both before and after WWI never supported political union between Palestine and Jordan. They briefly supported political union between Syria, Lebanon, and Palestine, but subsequently voted in favor of Palestinian independence and separatism. Palestine Arab Congress - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

Since the map is of "Palestine," and clearly includes all of Jordan, all of Lebanon, all of Israel, and the Southern portion of Syria, it is pretty dishonest to claim that Jordan is not Arab Palestine.

Despite a bit of chicanery by the Israel hating league, Palestine was never a country or a nation, only a region - similar to "The Mid-West" or "New England." Bostonian's may not have a "political union" with New York, but they remain New Englanders.

It is also entirely disingenuous to speak of political unions under the Caliphate - all were subjects of the Ottoman - so Wiki and you are blowing anti-Israel smoke.

The congresses that I posted took place after WWI within the auspice of European colonialism / league of nations. It's also not disingenuous to speak of Arab nationalist movements that sprung up even prior to that against Ottoman rule.

of course-----no question-----there were lots of arab nationalist movements against the OTTOMAN RULE and
mutual hatred SO? ALWAYS several factions --fighting both the controlling powers and each other. What else is new? In fact the American Indians of the plains -----fought each other too.
What is "EUROPEAN COLONIALISM" is that somehow different from OTTOMAN COLONIALISM?
or MOGHUL COLONIALISM? ------or MAYAN
COLONIALISM?------what are we going to call ROMAN COLONIALISM-------I favor calling it MEDITERRANEAN
COLONIALISM--------the lands masses about the
MEDETERRANEAN------seem sorta NATION like to
to me-------even genetically

This rant of yours has nothing to do with the topic which is whether or not Palestinians identify with Jordan historically speaking or within contemporary terms.

 

[irosie91]

[QUOTE="Osomir, post: 11351106, member: 44053
The congresses that I posted took place after WWI within the auspice of European colonialism / league of nations. It's also not disingenuous to speak of Arab nationalist movements that sprung up even prior to that against Ottoman rule.[/QUOTE]

really? those arab nationalist congresses were
sponsored by European colonialists? I did not know

 

[Osomir]

really? those arab nationalist congresses were
sponsored by European colonialists? I did not know

No. I was referencing the date of his map vs the date of the Palestinian Arab Congress sessions. He attempted to address the substance of a post WWI congress and identity structure with a much older map relating to Turkish Ottoman rule. I was pointing out the disconnect of doing so.

 

[irosie91]

Not sure how an Ottoman map makes me a liar, but that's super. The simple fact is that the Palestinian National Congresses held both before and after WWI never supported political union between Palestine and Jordan. They briefly supported political union between Syria, Lebanon, and Palestine, but subsequently voted in favor of Palestinian independence and separatism. Palestine Arab Congress - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

Since the map is of "Palestine," and clearly includes all of Jordan, all of Lebanon, all of Israel, and the Southern portion of Syria, it is pretty dishonest to claim that Jordan is not Arab Palestine.

Despite a bit of chicanery by the Israel hating league, Palestine was never a country or a nation, only a region - similar to "The Mid-West" or "New England." Bostonian's may not have a "political union" with New York, but they remain New Englanders.

It is also entirely disingenuous to speak of political unions under the Caliphate - all were subjects of the Ottoman - so Wiki and you are blowing anti-Israel smoke.

The congresses that I posted took place after WWI within the auspice of European colonialism / league of nations. It's also not disingenuous to speak of Arab nationalist movements that sprung up even prior to that against Ottoman rule.

of course-----no question-----there were lots of arab nationalist movements against the OTTOMAN RULE and
mutual hatred SO? ALWAYS several factions --fighting both the controlling powers and each other. What else is new? In fact the American Indians of the plains -----fought each other too.
What is "EUROPEAN COLONIALISM" is that somehow different from OTTOMAN COLONIALISM?
or MOGHUL COLONIALISM? ------or MAYAN
COLONIALISM?------what are we going to call ROMAN COLONIALISM-------I favor calling it MEDITERRANEAN
COLONIALISM--------the lands masses about the
MEDETERRANEAN------seem sorta NATION like to
to me-------even genetically

This rant of yours has nothing to do with the topic which is whether or not Palestinians identify with Jordan historically speaking or within contemporary terms.

I did not suggest that "Palestinians" identify in contemporary times with JORDAN-----my sense is that
Jordan was handed over to BEDOUIN rule-----and that
even the people who are BEDOUINS in the Negev and
Sinai-----do not identify with SYRIA or LEBANON or EGYPT------even though Arabic is now the lingua franca of the whole area

 

[Skylar]

I don't hate anyone. I just disagree with some of them.

I suspect that Israelis might find your stance that they don't have a right to exist as a bit more than a simple disagreement.

Their disagreement would be a neat trick, given that I've never advocated such a position.

But hey, why let the facts get in the way of your rant. They never have before.

 

[Coyote]

A lot of Islamic liberalism started off as critiques of highly illiberal western colonial powers and administrations. Appeals for the expansion and modernization of education, as well as education for women, the appeal for constitutionalism and equity under the law and even the call for democracy. Trying to suggest that such progressive discourse for the time is illiberal simply so that you can carry on with your black and white understanding of Islam is dishonest.

You want to create this definitive barrier between Islamic Liberalism and European style liberalism, when many Islamic liberalists and modernists sought to copy European domestic liberal styles directly.

What a steaming pile of shit.

When you claim that British, Dutch, and French colonies were LESS liberal than the Tribesmen of the desert of the Shieks in the cities - any credibility you may have had is laughably lost.

So, it was the Brits who were stoning women for adultery in Zarqa whilst the "liberal" Imams decried such barbarism?

ROFL

What a fucking pile - you're just a liar for Allah.

Have you ever looked at how they treated natives in some of those colonies - particularly Africa? Might be useful to do some research: Leopold II of Belgium - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

 

[Osomir]

Not sure how an Ottoman map makes me a liar, but that's super. The simple fact is that the Palestinian National Congresses held both before and after WWI never supported political union between Palestine and Jordan. They briefly supported political union between Syria, Lebanon, and Palestine, but subsequently voted in favor of Palestinian independence and separatism. Palestine Arab Congress - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

Since the map is of "Palestine," and clearly includes all of Jordan, all of Lebanon, all of Israel, and the Southern portion of Syria, it is pretty dishonest to claim that Jordan is not Arab Palestine.

Despite a bit of chicanery by the Israel hating league, Palestine was never a country or a nation, only a region - similar to "The Mid-West" or "New England." Bostonian's may not have a "political union" with New York, but they remain New Englanders.

It is also entirely disingenuous to speak of political unions under the Caliphate - all were subjects of the Ottoman - so Wiki and you are blowing anti-Israel smoke.

The congresses that I posted took place after WWI within the auspice of European colonialism / league of nations. It's also not disingenuous to speak of Arab nationalist movements that sprung up even prior to that against Ottoman rule.

of course-----no question-----there were lots of arab nationalist movements against the OTTOMAN RULE and
mutual hatred SO? ALWAYS several factions --fighting both the controlling powers and each other. What else is new? In fact the American Indians of the plains -----fought each other too.
What is "EUROPEAN COLONIALISM" is that somehow different from OTTOMAN COLONIALISM?
or MOGHUL COLONIALISM? ------or MAYAN
COLONIALISM?------what are we going to call ROMAN COLONIALISM-------I favor calling it MEDITERRANEAN
COLONIALISM--------the lands masses about the
MEDETERRANEAN------seem sorta NATION like to
to me-------even genetically

This rant of yours has nothing to do with the topic which is whether or not Palestinians identify with Jordan historically speaking or within contemporary terms.

I did not suggest that "Palestinians" identify in contemporary times with JORDAN-----my sense is that
Jordan was handed over to BEDOUIN rule-----and that
even the people who are BEDOUINS in the Negev and
Sinai-----do not identify with SYRIA or LEBANON or EGYPT------even though Arabic is now the lingua franca of the whole area

So you agree then that uncensored was wrong. Great.

 

[irosie91]

really? those arab nationalist congresses were
sponsored by European colonialists? I did not know

No. I was referencing the date of his map vs the date of the Palestinian Arab Congress sessions. He attempted to address the substance of a post WWI congress and identity structure with a much older map relating to Turkish Ottoman rule. I was pointing out the disconnect of doing so.

really? those arab nationalist congresses were
sponsored by European colonialists? I did not know

No. I was referencing the date of his map vs the date of the Palestinian Arab Congress sessions. He attempted to address the substance of a post WWI congress and identity structure with a much older map relating to Turkish Ottoman rule. I was pointing out the disconnect of doing so.

Oh----I don't see dates-----presbyopia what are the dates---------I have come across all sorts of "LEFT OVER FROM THE OTTOMAN EMPIRE" issues in the area-----that which the OTTOMANS called things and did things or designated things-----remain at issue

 

[Osomir]

A lot of Islamic liberalism started off as critiques of highly illiberal western colonial powers and administrations. Appeals for the expansion and modernization of education, as well as education for women, the appeal for constitutionalism and equity under the law and even the call for democracy. Trying to suggest that such progressive discourse for the time is illiberal simply so that you can carry on with your black and white understanding of Islam is dishonest.

You want to create this definitive barrier between Islamic Liberalism and European style liberalism, when many Islamic liberalists and modernists sought to copy European domestic liberal styles directly.

What a steaming pile of shit.

When you claim that British, Dutch, and French colonies were LESS liberal than the Tribesmen of the desert of the Shieks in the cities - any credibility you may have had is laughably lost.

So, it was the Brits who were stoning women for adultery in Zarqa whilst the "liberal" Imams decried such barbarism?

ROFL

What a fucking pile - you're just a liar for Allah.

Have you ever looked at how they treated natives in some of those colonies - particularly Africa? Might be useful to do some research: Leopold II of Belgium - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

Indeed, up to ten million deaths there alone through the process of forced labor for resource extraction in ivory and rubber.

 

[Coyote]

I'm still waiting for a Muslim mass rally denouncing 9/11. I side with Pamela Geller.

It's always interesting to see who sides with hate.

it's always interesting to see how the HATERS WITH THE MOSTEST HATE------redefine "hate"

Justifying the massacre of children by a terrorist would, in my mind, constitute hate.

yes it would----that is why islamo Nazi pigs tried to create a libel against Ms Pam Geller claiming that she justified
a massacre of children

When you spend an entire blog entry claiming out of one side of your mouth that you do not support his actions (about 2 sentences) and then the rest justifying it and excusing it, it's no libel. But hey - she's Bievnik's idol and your hero!

 

[Uncensored2008]

Not sure how an Ottoman map makes me a liar, but that's super. The simple fact is that the Palestinian National Congresses held both before and after WWI never supported political union between Palestine and Jordan. They briefly supported political union between Syria, Lebanon, and Palestine, but subsequently voted in favor of Palestinian independence and separatism. Palestine Arab Congress - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

Since the map is of "Palestine," and clearly includes all of Jordan, all of Lebanon, all of Israel, and the Southern portion of Syria, it is pretty dishonest to claim that Jordan is not Arab Palestine.

That map with Palestine on it doesn't include all of Jordan. 1.) there are no border demarcations of administrative regions. 2.) The Palestinian identity marker is to the left of the Jordan river, not spanning modern day Jordanian territory.

I'll also see your map, and raise you another from the same source you pulled yours from:

Notice the administrative divisions. Regardless, Ottoman political divisions were very fluid, and using Turkish administrative structures to attempt to define Arab national identities isn't a very good way for you to go.

This is "Palestine," once again, all of Jordan is included. Yes, the Caliphate set up, which is a red herring and utterly irrelevant to the fact that Jordan was and is, Arab Palestine.

 

[Osomir]

Oh----I don't see dates-----presbyopia what are the dates---------I have come across all sorts of "LEFT OVER FROM THE OTTOMAN EMPIRE" issues in the area-----that which the OTTOMANS called things and did things or designated things-----remain at issue

I literally don't know what you are attempting to communicate here. Your English isn't very clear sometimes. Would you please try again through the use of complete sentences?