Antifa Communism Rejected in Spain

[theDoctorisIn]

You know that the opponents of Franco were called "republicans", right?

They weren't fighting for a "dictatorship", they were fighting against one.

Yet they understood that a temporary dictatorship was necessary to eradicate the permanent communist dictatorship.

Who did?

Who is this "they" you speak of?

I assure you, the anarchists fighting Franco were not planning on installing a "temporary dictatorship".

Doc, follow the chain. You said "They weren't fighting for dictatorship..." I replied "yet THEY understood..."
They are the same "they" you were referring to. Are we good now?

So you're claiming that all of the republicans fighting Franco were trying to install a Communist dictatorship?

Do you have anything to back up that asinine claim?

As I said before, I have family members who fought with the International Brigades. I assure you, they weren't fighting to install a dictator - any more than my other family members who fought Hitler were.

No Doc, You are either spinning it or we are not on the same page on this. I understood when you said "they" you meant the republicans weren't fighting for dictatorship. Maybe you referred to the hodgepodge brigades fighting on the communist side?

You're right, we're not on the same page. In fact, I don't even think we're in the same book.

I'm in a history book, you're reading a post on 4chan.

There was no "communist" side in the Spanish Civil War. The Communists were on the side of the Republicans - the people who wanted a representative democracy.

The Spanish Civil War wasn't Communists vs. Fascists, it was Republican Democracy vs. Fascism.

 

[Lucy Hamilton]

Not that I have avoided responsibility with my Franco, Pinochet and Videla comment I have not taken my comment back have I?

No, you haven't taken them back.

You've just tried desperately to deflect to something else whenever you support for fascists is challenged.

"Whataboutism" isn't "taking responsibility", it's avoiding it.

You said that Franco killed millions, I posted that they were Communists which they were, Spain would have fallen to Communism just like Argentina and Chile would have if not for Pinochet and Videla. I did not deflect from my original comment which is that anyone who prevents their nation from falling to Communism is great and to be admired.

It's interesting how easy it is for you to dehumanize a million people, just because you disagree with their politics.

"Oh, he killed a million people - but that's ok, they disagreed with him politically."

Not that I did that.

Yes, that's exactly what you did.

Also Doc it wasn't one million people on the Republican side, it was officially 110,000 killed in action according to historians and also 90,000 killed in action on the Franco side, in total it was 500,000 dead and that includes both sides and 450,000 left Spain into exile on the Republican side.

Where you get one million Republicans killed from I don't know, but it's not correct.

 

[MindWars]

Ted Nugent: The Left Will Be The Ones To Start Next Civil War

Ted Nugent live via Skype to discuss the prospect of civil war springing to life across America and makes the bold observation that the left will be the ones to initiate such conflicts.

 

[theDoctorisIn]

No, you haven't taken them back.

You've just tried desperately to deflect to something else whenever you support for fascists is challenged.

"Whataboutism" isn't "taking responsibility", it's avoiding it.

You said that Franco killed millions, I posted that they were Communists which they were, Spain would have fallen to Communism just like Argentina and Chile would have if not for Pinochet and Videla. I did not deflect from my original comment which is that anyone who prevents their nation from falling to Communism is great and to be admired.

It's interesting how easy it is for you to dehumanize a million people, just because you disagree with their politics.

"Oh, he killed a million people - but that's ok, they disagreed with him politically."

Not that I did that.

Yes, that's exactly what you did.

Also Doc it wasn't one million people on the Republican side, it was officially 110,000 killed in action according to historians and also 90,000 killed in action on the Franco side, in total it was 500,000 dead and that includes both sides and 450,000 left Spain into exile on the Republican side.

Where you get one million Republicans killed from I don't know, but it's not correct.

...plus another 500,000 people Franco had "disappeared" in the years he was in power.

 

[Lucy Hamilton]

Yet they understood that a temporary dictatorship was necessary to eradicate the permanent communist dictatorship.

Who did?

Who is this "they" you speak of?

I assure you, the anarchists fighting Franco were not planning on installing a "temporary dictatorship".

Doc, follow the chain. You said "They weren't fighting for dictatorship..." I replied "yet THEY understood..."
They are the same "they" you were referring to. Are we good now?

So you're claiming that all of the republicans fighting Franco were trying to install a Communist dictatorship?

Do you have anything to back up that asinine claim?

As I said before, I have family members who fought with the International Brigades. I assure you, they weren't fighting to install a dictator - any more than my other family members who fought Hitler were.

No Doc, You are either spinning it or we are not on the same page on this. I understood when you said "they" you meant the republicans weren't fighting for dictatorship. Maybe you referred to the hodgepodge brigades fighting on the communist side?

You're right, we're not on the same page. In fact, I don't even think we're in the same book.

I'm in a history book, you're reading a post on 4chan.

There was no "communist" side in the Spanish Civil War. The Communists were on the side of the Republicans - the people who wanted a representative democracy.

The Spanish Civil War wasn't Communists vs. Fascists, it was Republican Democracy vs. Fascism.

Spanish Civil War: Casualties

 

[Lucy Hamilton]

You said that Franco killed millions, I posted that they were Communists which they were, Spain would have fallen to Communism just like Argentina and Chile would have if not for Pinochet and Videla. I did not deflect from my original comment which is that anyone who prevents their nation from falling to Communism is great and to be admired.

It's interesting how easy it is for you to dehumanize a million people, just because you disagree with their politics.

"Oh, he killed a million people - but that's ok, they disagreed with him politically."

Not that I did that.

Yes, that's exactly what you did.

Also Doc it wasn't one million people on the Republican side, it was officially 110,000 killed in action according to historians and also 90,000 killed in action on the Franco side, in total it was 500,000 dead and that includes both sides and 450,000 left Spain into exile on the Republican side.

Where you get one million Republicans killed from I don't know, but it's not correct.

...plus another 500,000 people Franco had "disappeared" in the years he was in power.

If you could provide a link to show that it would be appreciated.

 

[defcon4]

Yet they understood that a temporary dictatorship was necessary to eradicate the permanent communist dictatorship.

Who did?

Who is this "they" you speak of?

I assure you, the anarchists fighting Franco were not planning on installing a "temporary dictatorship".

Doc, follow the chain. You said "They weren't fighting for dictatorship..." I replied "yet THEY understood..."
They are the same "they" you were referring to. Are we good now?

So you're claiming that all of the republicans fighting Franco were trying to install a Communist dictatorship?

Do you have anything to back up that asinine claim?

As I said before, I have family members who fought with the International Brigades. I assure you, they weren't fighting to install a dictator - any more than my other family members who fought Hitler were.

No Doc, You are either spinning it or we are not on the same page on this. I understood when you said "they" you meant the republicans weren't fighting for dictatorship. Maybe you referred to the hodgepodge brigades fighting on the communist side?

You're right, we're not on the same page. In fact, I don't even think we're in the same book.

I'm in a history book, you're reading a post on 4chan.

There was no "communist" side in the Spanish Civil War. The Communists were on the side of the Republicans - the people who wanted a representative democracy.

The Spanish Civil War wasn't Communists vs. Fascists, it was Republican Democracy vs. Fascism.

You know I always wanted to know where in the heck that 4chan is since I hear so much about it. I am serious Doc. There would be no need to lie on a faceless message board about it.

What is Republican Democracy Doc? I have never heard about that form of government before. Is it along the lines to change the vocabulary nowadays? When we talk about the U.S., leftists always say "our democracy" I never hear them saying "our republic." It is low brainwashing, isn't it?

 

[Lucy Hamilton]

Yet they understood that a temporary dictatorship was necessary to eradicate the permanent communist dictatorship.

Who did?

Who is this "they" you speak of?

I assure you, the anarchists fighting Franco were not planning on installing a "temporary dictatorship".

Doc, follow the chain. You said "They weren't fighting for dictatorship..." I replied "yet THEY understood..."
They are the same "they" you were referring to. Are we good now?

So you're claiming that all of the republicans fighting Franco were trying to install a Communist dictatorship?

Do you have anything to back up that asinine claim?

As I said before, I have family members who fought with the International Brigades. I assure you, they weren't fighting to install a dictator - any more than my other family members who fought Hitler were.

No Doc, You are either spinning it or we are not on the same page on this. I understood when you said "they" you meant the republicans weren't fighting for dictatorship. Maybe you referred to the hodgepodge brigades fighting on the communist side?

You're right, we're not on the same page. In fact, I don't even think we're in the same book.

I'm in a history book, you're reading a post on 4chan.

There was no "communist" side in the Spanish Civil War. The Communists were on the side of the Republicans - the people who wanted a representative democracy.

The Spanish Civil War wasn't Communists vs. Fascists, it was Republican Democracy vs. Fascism.

Yes Lenin wanted a Representative Democracy also and look how that ended.

 

[theDoctorisIn]

It's interesting how easy it is for you to dehumanize a million people, just because you disagree with their politics.

"Oh, he killed a million people - but that's ok, they disagreed with him politically."

Not that I did that.

Yes, that's exactly what you did.

Also Doc it wasn't one million people on the Republican side, it was officially 110,000 killed in action according to historians and also 90,000 killed in action on the Franco side, in total it was 500,000 dead and that includes both sides and 450,000 left Spain into exile on the Republican side.

Where you get one million Republicans killed from I don't know, but it's not correct.

...plus another 500,000 people Franco had "disappeared" in the years he was in power.

If you could provide a link to show that it would be appreciated.

White Terror (Spain) - Wikipedia

 

[theDoctorisIn]

Who did?

Who is this "they" you speak of?

I assure you, the anarchists fighting Franco were not planning on installing a "temporary dictatorship".

Doc, follow the chain. You said "They weren't fighting for dictatorship..." I replied "yet THEY understood..."
They are the same "they" you were referring to. Are we good now?

So you're claiming that all of the republicans fighting Franco were trying to install a Communist dictatorship?

Do you have anything to back up that asinine claim?

As I said before, I have family members who fought with the International Brigades. I assure you, they weren't fighting to install a dictator - any more than my other family members who fought Hitler were.

No Doc, You are either spinning it or we are not on the same page on this. I understood when you said "they" you meant the republicans weren't fighting for dictatorship. Maybe you referred to the hodgepodge brigades fighting on the communist side?

You're right, we're not on the same page. In fact, I don't even think we're in the same book.

I'm in a history book, you're reading a post on 4chan.

There was no "communist" side in the Spanish Civil War. The Communists were on the side of the Republicans - the people who wanted a representative democracy.

The Spanish Civil War wasn't Communists vs. Fascists, it was Republican Democracy vs. Fascism.

Yes Lenin wanted a Representative Democracy also and look how that ended.

No he didn't.

 

[Lucy Hamilton]

Doc, follow the chain. You said "They weren't fighting for dictatorship..." I replied "yet THEY understood..."
They are the same "they" you were referring to. Are we good now?

So you're claiming that all of the republicans fighting Franco were trying to install a Communist dictatorship?

Do you have anything to back up that asinine claim?

As I said before, I have family members who fought with the International Brigades. I assure you, they weren't fighting to install a dictator - any more than my other family members who fought Hitler were.

No Doc, You are either spinning it or we are not on the same page on this. I understood when you said "they" you meant the republicans weren't fighting for dictatorship. Maybe you referred to the hodgepodge brigades fighting on the communist side?

You're right, we're not on the same page. In fact, I don't even think we're in the same book.

I'm in a history book, you're reading a post on 4chan.

There was no "communist" side in the Spanish Civil War. The Communists were on the side of the Republicans - the people who wanted a representative democracy.

The Spanish Civil War wasn't Communists vs. Fascists, it was Republican Democracy vs. Fascism.

Yes Lenin wanted a Representative Democracy also and look how that ended.

No he didn't.

Lenin supporting Representative Democracy in his own words:

^^^^ The above is from this book:

 

[Lucy Hamilton]

Not that I did that.

Yes, that's exactly what you did.

Also Doc it wasn't one million people on the Republican side, it was officially 110,000 killed in action according to historians and also 90,000 killed in action on the Franco side, in total it was 500,000 dead and that includes both sides and 450,000 left Spain into exile on the Republican side.

Where you get one million Republicans killed from I don't know, but it's not correct.

...plus another 500,000 people Franco had "disappeared" in the years he was in power.

If you could provide a link to show that it would be appreciated.

White Terror (Spain) - Wikipedia

Wikipedia isn't a good choice for accuracy as anyone can join and edit or re edit.

 

[theDoctorisIn]

Who did?

Who is this "they" you speak of?

I assure you, the anarchists fighting Franco were not planning on installing a "temporary dictatorship".

Doc, follow the chain. You said "They weren't fighting for dictatorship..." I replied "yet THEY understood..."
They are the same "they" you were referring to. Are we good now?

So you're claiming that all of the republicans fighting Franco were trying to install a Communist dictatorship?

Do you have anything to back up that asinine claim?

As I said before, I have family members who fought with the International Brigades. I assure you, they weren't fighting to install a dictator - any more than my other family members who fought Hitler were.

No Doc, You are either spinning it or we are not on the same page on this. I understood when you said "they" you meant the republicans weren't fighting for dictatorship. Maybe you referred to the hodgepodge brigades fighting on the communist side?

You're right, we're not on the same page. In fact, I don't even think we're in the same book.

I'm in a history book, you're reading a post on 4chan.

There was no "communist" side in the Spanish Civil War. The Communists were on the side of the Republicans - the people who wanted a representative democracy.

The Spanish Civil War wasn't Communists vs. Fascists, it was Republican Democracy vs. Fascism.

You know I always wanted to know where in the heck that 4chan is since I hear so much about it. I am serious Doc. There would be no need to lie on a faceless message board about it.

What is Republican Democracy Doc? I have never heard about that form of government before. Is it along the lines to change the vocabulary nowadays? When we talk about the U.S., leftists always say "our democracy" I never hear them saying "our republic." It is low brainwashing, isn't it?

In the context the terms are used in the US, "republic" and "democracy" are synonyms. I used the term "Republican democracy" to differtiate it from "direct democracy".

The Spanish Civil War was a military coup against a popularly elected government - a system of government not dissimilar to our own.

4chan is a message board, famously the home of the "alt-right".

 

[theDoctorisIn]

Yes, that's exactly what you did.

Also Doc it wasn't one million people on the Republican side, it was officially 110,000 killed in action according to historians and also 90,000 killed in action on the Franco side, in total it was 500,000 dead and that includes both sides and 450,000 left Spain into exile on the Republican side.

Where you get one million Republicans killed from I don't know, but it's not correct.

...plus another 500,000 people Franco had "disappeared" in the years he was in power.

If you could provide a link to show that it would be appreciated.

White Terror (Spain) - Wikipedia

Wikipedia isn't a good choice for accuracy as anyone can join and edit or re edit.

Well, it's a good thing that Wikipedia sources it's facts, so you can do further research.

I'm surprised you didn't learn this in school.

 

[theDoctorisIn]

So you're claiming that all of the republicans fighting Franco were trying to install a Communist dictatorship?

Do you have anything to back up that asinine claim?

As I said before, I have family members who fought with the International Brigades. I assure you, they weren't fighting to install a dictator - any more than my other family members who fought Hitler were.

No Doc, You are either spinning it or we are not on the same page on this. I understood when you said "they" you meant the republicans weren't fighting for dictatorship. Maybe you referred to the hodgepodge brigades fighting on the communist side?

You're right, we're not on the same page. In fact, I don't even think we're in the same book.

I'm in a history book, you're reading a post on 4chan.

There was no "communist" side in the Spanish Civil War. The Communists were on the side of the Republicans - the people who wanted a representative democracy.

The Spanish Civil War wasn't Communists vs. Fascists, it was Republican Democracy vs. Fascism.

Yes Lenin wanted a Representative Democracy also and look how that ended.

No he didn't.

Lenin supporting Representative Democracy in his own words:

View attachment 153127

^^^^ The above is from this book:

View attachment 153128

Did you read the title of that book?

Focus on the part where years are mentioned.

 

[Lucy Hamilton]

Ok, well - right here, today - you praised a fascist dictator as a "GREAT man".

Why are you now taking issue with the fact that I'm trying to discuss a post you made less than half an hour ago?

Doc, it takes a strong man, a dictator if you will, to deal with an other dictatorship. You do remember that communism is the dictatorship of the proletariat, don't you?

You know that the opponents of Franco were called "republicans", right?

They weren't fighting for a "dictatorship", they were fighting against one.

Yet they understood that a temporary dictatorship was necessary to eradicate the permanent communist dictatorship.

Who did?

Who is this "they" you speak of?

I assure you, the anarchists fighting Franco were not planning on installing a "temporary dictatorship".

The Communists support what Lenin called a Dictatorship of the Proletariat, bizarrely they consider this as an expansion of Democracy even though under such a Regime there is no Democracy as elections are outlawed.

The situation as history illustrates with Communist Regimes is that the Dictatorship of the Proletariat which is supposed to be for the little people ie. the workers is only okay as long as everyone agrees with what the Politburo dictates, anyone who disagrees is murdered or put into gulags.

Spain would have been no different had the Republicans have won the Spanish Civil War.

 

[theDoctorisIn]

Ok, well - right here, today - you praised a fascist dictator as a "GREAT man".

Why are you now taking issue with the fact that I'm trying to discuss a post you made less than half an hour ago?

Doc, it takes a strong man, a dictator if you will, to deal with an other dictatorship. You do remember that communism is the dictatorship of the proletariat, don't you?

You know that the opponents of Franco were called "republicans", right?

They weren't fighting for a "dictatorship", they were fighting against one.

Yet they understood that a temporary dictatorship was necessary to eradicate the permanent communist dictatorship.

Who did?

Who is this "they" you speak of?

I assure you, the anarchists fighting Franco were not planning on installing a "temporary dictatorship".

The Communists support what Lenin called a Dictatorship of the Proletariat, bizarrely they consider this as an expansion of Democracy even though under such a Regime there is no Democracy as elections are outlawed.

The situation as history illustrates with Communist Regimes is that the Dictatorship of the Proletariat which is supposed to be for the little people ie. the workers is only okay as long as everyone agrees with what the Politburo dictates, anyone who disagrees is murdered or put into gulags.

Spain would have been no different had the Republicans have won the Spanish Civil War.

The Communists made up a small fraction of the Republicans.

Spain was a Republic before the Civil war. There were countless groups that fought Franco - all of the existing political parties other than Franco's, various anarchist groups, and countless others were fighting Franco as well.

 

[defcon4]

"Gen. Francisco Franco, received arms from Hitler's Germany and Mussolini's Italy. The Republicans, with domestic and foreign support from Socialists, Communists and various liberal sympathizers, received aid from the Soviet Union."
Encyclopaedia Britannica, Micropaedia, Volume 11, pp 66
Fifteenth Edition © 1985 Encyclopaedia Britannica ISBN 0-85229-423-9


It is my mistake about republicanism in the Spanish Civil War. My mind stuck on Communism what was based on the above reference such as who supported Republicans.

 

[defcon4]

The Communists support what Lenin called a Dictatorship of the Proletariat, bizarrely they consider this as an expansion of Democracy even though under such a Regime there is no Democracy as elections are outlawed.

Correct. Marxist-Leninist doctrine clearly instructs that Communism is achieved by the means of the dictatorship of the proletariat.

 

[defcon4]

Doc, follow the chain. You said "They weren't fighting for dictatorship..." I replied "yet THEY understood..."
They are the same "they" you were referring to. Are we good now?

So you're claiming that all of the republicans fighting Franco were trying to install a Communist dictatorship?

Do you have anything to back up that asinine claim?

As I said before, I have family members who fought with the International Brigades. I assure you, they weren't fighting to install a dictator - any more than my other family members who fought Hitler were.

No Doc, You are either spinning it or we are not on the same page on this. I understood when you said "they" you meant the republicans weren't fighting for dictatorship. Maybe you referred to the hodgepodge brigades fighting on the communist side?

You're right, we're not on the same page. In fact, I don't even think we're in the same book.

I'm in a history book, you're reading a post on 4chan.

There was no "communist" side in the Spanish Civil War. The Communists were on the side of the Republicans - the people who wanted a representative democracy.

The Spanish Civil War wasn't Communists vs. Fascists, it was Republican Democracy vs. Fascism.

You know I always wanted to know where in the heck that 4chan is since I hear so much about it. I am serious Doc. There would be no need to lie on a faceless message board about it.

What is Republican Democracy Doc? I have never heard about that form of government before. Is it along the lines to change the vocabulary nowadays? When we talk about the U.S., leftists always say "our democracy" I never hear them saying "our republic." It is low brainwashing, isn't it?

In the context the terms are used in the US, "republic" and "democracy" are synonyms. I used the term "Republican democracy" to differtiate it from "direct democracy".

The Spanish Civil War was a military coup against a popularly elected government - a system of government not dissimilar to our own.

4chan is a message board, famously the home of the "alt-right".

Democracy and Republicanism are not interchangeable in spite of leftist usage as such.