AR-15 shooting a single .223 round literally rips upper half of the body from victims lower half

[Dagosa]

'Cuz I wanna hear you tell it!

Well, you’ve been wrong so many times I don’t wonder you wouldn’t know.

 

[The Duke]

Any untrained fool can acquire and shoot a higher capacity, low recoil rifle chambered for a .223. Everything is lighter including the recoil. The military uses it specifically for that reason…enough lethality in a round with as little recoil as possible and the lightest, highest capacity making for over all efficiency for combat shooting.

Really, have you every fired a 30-06 in a rifle as light as an AR15 platform Rifle ? You’re not a hunter either are you ?
If your comment held an water, we’d have AR15 platform rifles in .577 nitro. We don’t…the .30-06 is self limiting in smaller light weight easy to fire rifles….The military knows this….why don’t you ?

I don't think there's an option for 30-.06 on the AR platform.

 

[Dagosa]

I don't think there's an option for 30-.06 on the AR platform.

Yup…and your point is ?
There is an option for handguns in .44/mag, but they aren’t a weapon of choice by very many but hunters.,

 

[Dagosa]

I don't think there's an option for 30-.06 on the AR platform.

Of course, you could read it yourself..

Why did the military go to the .223? | [March Tested]

Contents Why did the military go to the .223? The military switched to the .223 caliber for its rifles due to its lighter weight, higher muzzle velocity, and better performance at longer distances compared to the previously used .30 caliber rounds. FAQs about the .223 caliber in the military 1...

thegunzone.com

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

We don't need the Supreme Court to reinterpret the meaning of the Second Amendment. It already says what it means:

Wrong.

This is yet another example of the right’s contempt for the rule of law and the Constitution – of the right’s contempt for the Framers’ mandate that the Supreme Court has the authority to determine what the Constitution means, including the Second Amendment.

And as a fact of Second Amendment jurisprudence, as held in Presser v. Illinois, only state governments or the Federal government can authorize the formation of a militia, not private citizens.

Private citizens have no authority to unilaterally declare themselves a ‘militia,’ they are subject to the same regulations and restrictions as anyone else and are not entitled to be armed consistent with that of the military.

The tyranny that the Framers sought to prevent was the tyranny of those so reckless and irresponsible as to lawlessly take up arms against a legitimate government elected by the people reflecting the will of the people.

 

[westwall]

Wrong.

This is yet another example of the right’s contempt for the rule of law and the Constitution – of the right’s contempt for the Framers’ mandate that the Supreme Court has the authority to determine what the Constitution means, including the Second Amendment.

And as a fact of Second Amendment jurisprudence, as held in Presser v. Illinois, only state governments or the Federal government can authorize the formation of a militia, not private citizens.

Private citizens have no authority to unilaterally declare themselves a ‘militia,’ they are subject to the same regulations and restrictions as anyone else and are not entitled to be armed consistent with that of the military.

The tyranny that the Framers sought to prevent was the tyranny of those so reckless and irresponsible as to lawlessly take up arms against a legitimate government elected by the people reflecting the will of the people.

Wrong, as usual.....

George Washington Gun Quotes —​

“A free people ought not only to be armed, but disciplined; to which end a uniform and well-digested plan is requisite; and their safety and interest require that they should promote such manufactories as tend to render them independent on others for essential, particularly for military, supplies.”
– George Washington, First Annual Address, to both House of Congress, January 8, 1790

“And that the said Constitution be never construed to authorize Congress to infringe the just liberty of the press, or the rights of conscience; or to prevent the people of the United States, who are peaceable citizens, from keeping their own arms; or to raise standing armies, unless necessary for the defense of the United States, or of some one or more of them; or to prevent the people from petitioning, in a peaceable and orderly manner, the federal legislature, for a redress of grievances; or to subject the people to unreasonable searches and seizures of their persons, papers or possessions.”
-George Washington, Debates of the Massachusetts Convention of February 6, 1788

“That no man should scruple, or hesitate a moment, to use arms in defence of so valuable a blessing, on which all the good and evil of life depends, is clearly my opinion.”
-George Washington, letter to George Mason April 5th 1769

“It may be laid down, as a primary position, and the basis of our system, that every citizen who enjoys the protection of a free government, owes not only a proportion of his property, but even of his personal services to the defence of it, and consequently that the Citizens of America (with a few legal and official exceptions) from 18 to 50 Years of Age should be borne on the Militia Rolls, provided with uniform Arms, and so far accustomed to the use of them, that the Total strength of the Country might be called forth at Short Notice on any very interesting Emergency.”
-George Washington, letter to Alexander Hamilton May 2, 1783

Thomas Jefferson Gun Quotes —​

“No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms.”
– Thomas Jefferson, Virginia Constitution, Draft 1, 1776

“I prefer dangerous freedom over peaceful slavery.”
– Thomas Jefferson, letter to James Madison, January 30, 1787

“What country can preserve its liberties if their rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance. Let them take arms.”
– Thomas Jefferson, letter to James Madison, December 20, 1787

“The laws that forbid the carrying of arms are laws of such a nature. They disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes…. Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man.”
– Thomas Jefferson, Commonplace Book (quoting 18th century criminologist Cesare Beccaria), 1774-1776

“A strong body makes the mind strong. As to the species of exercises, I advise the gun. While this gives moderate exercise to the body, it gives boldness, enterprise and independence to the mind. Games played with the ball, and others of that nature, are too violent for the body and stamp no character on the mind. Let your gun therefore be your constant companion of your walks.” – Thomas Jefferson, letter to Peter Carr, August 19, 1785

“The Constitution of most of our states (and of the United States) assert that all power is inherent in the people; that they may exercise it by themselves; that it is their right and duty to be at all times armed.”
– Thomas Jefferson, letter to to John Cartwright, 5 June 1824

“On every occasion [of Constitutional interpretation] let us carry ourselves back to the time when the Constitution was adopted, recollect the spirit manifested in the debates, and instead of trying [to force] what meaning may be squeezed out of the text, or invented against it, [instead let us] conform to the probable one in which it was passed.”
– Thomas Jefferson, letter to William Johnson, 12 June 1823

“I enclose you a list of the killed, wounded, and captives of the enemy from the commencement of hostilities at Lexington in April, 1775, until November, 1777, since which there has been no event of any consequence … I think that upon the whole it has been about one half the number lost by them, in some instances more, but in others less. This difference is ascribed to our superiority in taking aim when we fire; every soldier in our army having been intimate with his gun from his infancy.”
– Thomas Jefferson, letter to Giovanni Fabbroni, June 8, 1778

George Mason Gun Quotes —​

“To disarm the people…s the most effectual way to enslave them.”
– George Mason, referencing advice given to the British Parliament by Pennsylvania governor Sir William Keith, The Debates in the Several State Conventions on the Adooption of the Federal Constitution, June 14, 1788

“I ask who are the militia? They consist now of the whole people, except a few public officers.”
– George Mason, Address to the Virginia Ratifying Convention, June 4, 1788

“That a well-regulated militia, composed of the body of the people, trained to arms, is the proper, natural and safe defense of a free state; that standing armies, in time of peace, should be avoided as dangerous to liberty; and that, in all cases, the military should be under strict subordination to, and governed by, the civil power.”
-George Mason, Virginia Declaration of Rights, June 12 1776

Noah Webster Gun Quotes —​

“Before a standing army can rule, the people must be disarmed, as they are in almost every country in Europe. The supreme power in America cannot enforce unjust laws by the sword; because the whole body of the people are armed, and constitute a force superior to any band of regular troops.”
– Noah Webster, An Examination of the Leading Principles of the Federal Constitution, October 10, 1787

 

[Dagosa]

Wrong, as usual.....

George Washington Gun Quotes —​

“A free people ought not only to be armed, but disciplined; to which end a uniform and well-digested plan is requisite; and their safety and interest require that they should promote such manufactories as tend to render them independent on others for essential, particularly for military, supplies.”
– George Washington, First Annual Address, to both House of Congress, January 8, 1790

“And that the said Constitution be never construed to authorize Congress to infringe the just liberty of the press, or the rights of conscience; or to prevent the people of the United States, who are peaceable citizens, from keeping their own arms; or to raise standing armies, unless necessary for the defense of the United States, or of some one or more of them; or to prevent the people from petitioning, in a peaceable and orderly manner, the federal legislature, for a redress of grievances; or to subject the people to unreasonable searches and seizures of their persons, papers or possessions.”
-George Washington, Debates of the Massachusetts Convention of February 6, 1788

“That no man should scruple, or hesitate a moment, to use arms in defence of so valuable a blessing, on which all the good and evil of life depends, is clearly my opinion.”
-George Washington, letter to George Mason April 5th 1769

“It may be laid down, as a primary position, and the basis of our system, that every citizen who enjoys the protection of a free government, owes not only a proportion of his property, but even of his personal services to the defence of it, and consequently that the Citizens of America (with a few legal and official exceptions) from 18 to 50 Years of Age should be borne on the Militia Rolls, provided with uniform Arms, and so far accustomed to the use of them, that the Total strength of the Country might be called forth at Short Notice on any very interesting Emergency.”
-George Washington, letter to Alexander Hamilton May 2, 1783

Thomas Jefferson Gun Quotes —​

“No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms.”
– Thomas Jefferson, Virginia Constitution, Draft 1, 1776

“I prefer dangerous freedom over peaceful slavery.”
– Thomas Jefferson, letter to James Madison, January 30, 1787

“What country can preserve its liberties if their rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance. Let them take arms.”
– Thomas Jefferson, letter to James Madison, December 20, 1787

“The laws that forbid the carrying of arms are laws of such a nature. They disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes…. Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man.”
– Thomas Jefferson, Commonplace Book (quoting 18th century criminologist Cesare Beccaria), 1774-1776

“A strong body makes the mind strong. As to the species of exercises, I advise the gun. While this gives moderate exercise to the body, it gives boldness, enterprise and independence to the mind. Games played with the ball, and others of that nature, are too violent for the body and stamp no character on the mind. Let your gun therefore be your constant companion of your walks.” – Thomas Jefferson, letter to Peter Carr, August 19, 1785

“The Constitution of most of our states (and of the United States) assert that all power is inherent in the people; that they may exercise it by themselves; that it is their right and duty to be at all times armed.”
– Thomas Jefferson, letter to to John Cartwright, 5 June 1824

“On every occasion [of Constitutional interpretation] let us carry ourselves back to the time when the Constitution was adopted, recollect the spirit manifested in the debates, and instead of trying [to force] what meaning may be squeezed out of the text, or invented against it, [instead let us] conform to the probable one in which it was passed.”
– Thomas Jefferson, letter to William Johnson, 12 June 1823

“I enclose you a list of the killed, wounded, and captives of the enemy from the commencement of hostilities at Lexington in April, 1775, until November, 1777, since which there has been no event of any consequence … I think that upon the whole it has been about one half the number lost by them, in some instances more, but in others less. This difference is ascribed to our superiority in taking aim when we fire; every soldier in our army having been intimate with his gun from his infancy.”
– Thomas Jefferson, letter to Giovanni Fabbroni, June 8, 1778

George Mason Gun Quotes —​

“To disarm the people…s the most effectual way to enslave them.”
– George Mason, referencing advice given to the British Parliament by Pennsylvania governor Sir William Keith, The Debates in the Several State Conventions on the Adooption of the Federal Constitution, June 14, 1788

“I ask who are the militia? They consist now of the whole people, except a few public officers.”
– George Mason, Address to the Virginia Ratifying Convention, June 4, 1788

“That a well-regulated militia, composed of the body of the people, trained to arms, is the proper, natural and safe defense of a free state; that standing armies, in time of peace, should be avoided as dangerous to liberty; and that, in all cases, the military should be under strict subordination to, and governed by, the civil power.”
-George Mason, Virginia Declaration of Rights, June 12 1776

Noah Webster Gun Quotes —​

“Before a standing army can rule, the people must be disarmed, as they are in almost every country in Europe. The supreme power in America cannot enforce unjust laws by the sword; because the whole body of the people are armed, and constitute a force superior to any band of regular troops.”
– Noah Webster, An Examination of the Leading Principles of the Federal Constitution, October 10, 1787

And all referred to black powder fire arms. And all references to gov were to the British, not the colonials who set up their own constitution and militia.

 

[westwall]

Poor C_Clayton_Jones, gives a disagree but can't refute the ACTUAL statements about the 2nd Amendment, and the reason for it, made by the Founders of this country.

Because he IS a low IQ fascist.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

Wrong, as usual.....

George Washington Gun Quotes —​

“A free people ought not only to be armed, but disciplined; to which end a uniform and well-digested plan is requisite; and their safety and interest require that they should promote such manufactories as tend to render them independent on others for essential, particularly for military, supplies.”
– George Washington, First Annual Address, to both House of Congress, January 8, 1790

“And that the said Constitution be never construed to authorize Congress to infringe the just liberty of the press, or the rights of conscience; or to prevent the people of the United States, who are peaceable citizens, from keeping their own arms; or to raise standing armies, unless necessary for the defense of the United States, or of some one or more of them; or to prevent the people from petitioning, in a peaceable and orderly manner, the federal legislature, for a redress of grievances; or to subject the people to unreasonable searches and seizures of their persons, papers or possessions.”
-George Washington, Debates of the Massachusetts Convention of February 6, 1788

“That no man should scruple, or hesitate a moment, to use arms in defence of so valuable a blessing, on which all the good and evil of life depends, is clearly my opinion.”
-George Washington, letter to George Mason April 5th 1769

“It may be laid down, as a primary position, and the basis of our system, that every citizen who enjoys the protection of a free government, owes not only a proportion of his property, but even of his personal services to the defence of it, and consequently that the Citizens of America (with a few legal and official exceptions) from 18 to 50 Years of Age should be borne on the Militia Rolls, provided with uniform Arms, and so far accustomed to the use of them, that the Total strength of the Country might be called forth at Short Notice on any very interesting Emergency.”
-George Washington, letter to Alexander Hamilton May 2, 1783

Thomas Jefferson Gun Quotes —​

“No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms.”
– Thomas Jefferson, Virginia Constitution, Draft 1, 1776

“I prefer dangerous freedom over peaceful slavery.”
– Thomas Jefferson, letter to James Madison, January 30, 1787

“What country can preserve its liberties if their rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance. Let them take arms.”
– Thomas Jefferson, letter to James Madison, December 20, 1787

“The laws that forbid the carrying of arms are laws of such a nature. They disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes…. Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man.”
– Thomas Jefferson, Commonplace Book (quoting 18th century criminologist Cesare Beccaria), 1774-1776

“A strong body makes the mind strong. As to the species of exercises, I advise the gun. While this gives moderate exercise to the body, it gives boldness, enterprise and independence to the mind. Games played with the ball, and others of that nature, are too violent for the body and stamp no character on the mind. Let your gun therefore be your constant companion of your walks.” – Thomas Jefferson, letter to Peter Carr, August 19, 1785

“The Constitution of most of our states (and of the United States) assert that all power is inherent in the people; that they may exercise it by themselves; that it is their right and duty to be at all times armed.”
– Thomas Jefferson, letter to to John Cartwright, 5 June 1824

“On every occasion [of Constitutional interpretation] let us carry ourselves back to the time when the Constitution was adopted, recollect the spirit manifested in the debates, and instead of trying [to force] what meaning may be squeezed out of the text, or invented against it, [instead let us] conform to the probable one in which it was passed.”
– Thomas Jefferson, letter to William Johnson, 12 June 1823

“I enclose you a list of the killed, wounded, and captives of the enemy from the commencement of hostilities at Lexington in April, 1775, until November, 1777, since which there has been no event of any consequence … I think that upon the whole it has been about one half the number lost by them, in some instances more, but in others less. This difference is ascribed to our superiority in taking aim when we fire; every soldier in our army having been intimate with his gun from his infancy.”
– Thomas Jefferson, letter to Giovanni Fabbroni, June 8, 1778

George Mason Gun Quotes —​

“To disarm the people…s the most effectual way to enslave them.”
– George Mason, referencing advice given to the British Parliament by Pennsylvania governor Sir William Keith, The Debates in the Several State Conventions on the Adooption of the Federal Constitution, June 14, 1788

“I ask who are the militia? They consist now of the whole people, except a few public officers.”
– George Mason, Address to the Virginia Ratifying Convention, June 4, 1788

“That a well-regulated militia, composed of the body of the people, trained to arms, is the proper, natural and safe defense of a free state; that standing armies, in time of peace, should be avoided as dangerous to liberty; and that, in all cases, the military should be under strict subordination to, and governed by, the civil power.”
-George Mason, Virginia Declaration of Rights, June 12 1776

Noah Webster Gun Quotes —​

“Before a standing army can rule, the people must be disarmed, as they are in almost every country in Europe. The supreme power in America cannot enforce unjust laws by the sword; because the whole body of the people are armed, and constitute a force superior to any band of regular troops.”
– Noah Webster, An Examination of the Leading Principles of the Federal Constitution, October 10, 1787

Also wrong - more contempt for the rule of law, the Constitution, and the Framers' original intent by conservatives.

The Supreme Court determines what the Constitution means, including the Second Amendment.

And as a fact of settled, accepted Second Amendment jurisprudence, only state governments or the Federal government may authorize the formation of militias, not private citizens.

Private citizens do not have the ‘right’ to possess weapons consistent with that of the military.

Private citizens do not have the ‘right’ to lawlessly take up arms against a legitimate government elected by the people, reflecting the will of the people, in a treasonous effort to overthrow a lawful, legitimate government incorrectly perceived to be ‘tyrannical.’

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

Poor C_Clayton_Jones, gives a disagree but can't refute the ACTUAL statements about the 2nd Amendment, and the reason for it, made by the Founders of this country.

Because he IS a low IQ fascist.

That’s because you’re wrong.

Quotes from private citizens have no lawful, legal merit – only the Supreme Court has such authority.

 

[westwall]

Also wrong - more contempt for the rule of law, the Constitution, and the Framers' original intent by conservatives.

The Supreme Court determines what the Constitution means, including the Second Amendment.

And as a fact of settled, accepted Second Amendment jurisprudence, only state governments or the Federal government may authorize the formation of militias, not private citizens.

Private citizens do not have the ‘right’ to possess weapons consistent with that of the military.

Private citizens do not have the ‘right’ to lawlessly take up arms against a legitimate government elected by the people, reflecting the will of the people, in a treasonous effort to overthrow a lawful, legitimate government incorrectly perceived to be ‘tyrannical.’

The actual words of the Founders PROVE you wrong. All you are doing is showing to the world just how ignorant, and unhinged you truly are.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

The actual words of the Founders PROVE you wrong. All you are doing is showing to the world just how ignorant, and unhinged you truly are.

What private citizens might ‘think,’ ‘believe,’ ‘or ‘feel’ is lawfully and constitutionally irrelevant and completely devoid of legal merit.

The Supreme Court alone has the authority to determine what the Constitution means, where there is no right codified in the Second Amendment authorizing private citizens to ‘form a militia,’ to function in the capacity of a militia, or to lawlessly take up arms against lawfully constituted government:

“The Court expressly rejected Presser’s contention that there was a right to assemble, drill, or march in a militia absent authorization by state or federal law. Justice Woods wrote:

The right voluntarily to associate together as a military company or organization or to drill or parade with arms, without, and independent of, an act of Congress or law of the State authorizing the same, is not an attribute of national citizenship. Military organization and military drill and parade under arms are subjects especially under the control of the government of every country. They cannot be claimed as a right independent of law. Under our political system they are subject to the regulation and control of the State and Federal governments, acting in due regard to their respective prerogatives and powers. The Constitution and laws of the United States will be searched in vain for any support to the view that these rights are privileges and immunities of citizens of the United States independent of some specific legislation on the subject. “

Presser v. Illinois – The Court’s Original Second Amendment Case

In Presser v. Illinois the Supreme Court first considered the Second Amendment and held it prevented states from kept the people from bearing arms

constitutionallawreporter.com

 

[westwall]

What private citizens might ‘think,’ ‘believe,’ ‘or ‘feel’ is lawfully and constitutionally irrelevant and completely devoid of legal merit.

The Supreme Court alone has the authority to determine what the Constitution means, where there is no right codified in the Second Amendment authorizing private citizens to ‘form a militia,’ to function in the capacity of a militia, or to lawlessly take up arms against lawfully constituted government:

“The Court expressly rejected Presser’s contention that there was a right to assemble, drill, or march in a militia absent authorization by state or federal law. Justice Woods wrote:

The right voluntarily to associate together as a military company or organization or to drill or parade with arms, without, and independent of, an act of Congress or law of the State authorizing the same, is not an attribute of national citizenship. Military organization and military drill and parade under arms are subjects especially under the control of the government of every country. They cannot be claimed as a right independent of law. Under our political system they are subject to the regulation and control of the State and Federal governments, acting in due regard to their respective prerogatives and powers. The Constitution and laws of the United States will be searched in vain for any support to the view that these rights are privileges and immunities of citizens of the United States independent of some specific legislation on the subject. “

Presser v. Illinois – The Court’s Original Second Amendment Case

In Presser v. Illinois the Supreme Court first considered the Second Amendment and held it prevented states from kept the people from bearing arms

constitutionallawreporter.com

What the Founders actually said, in regards the private ownership of firearms, and their intended usage, blows your ridiculous claim out of the water.

Fascists, like you, hate it when the PEOPLE can tell you to go piss up a rope.

 

[Dagosa]

The actual words of the Founders PROVE you wrong. All you are doing is showing to the world just how ignorant, and unhinged you truly are.

The founders had less say than the most recent amendments and SC decisions. Get real. The world changes.

 

[Kruska]

Ahhh, you German fascists absolutely hate it when the population has the power to tell you to piss off.

It was the Nazis, Communists and Right-wing Freikorps that had the guns in Germany from 1919 till 1933 - thus terrorizing the general population, and killing off each other. The National Armed Forces did not exist anymore (aside from 100,000 men - due to the Versailles Treaty) imposed onto Germany - that could have protected the population from those radicals and extremist.

Unlike the USA, Germany was a CIVILIZED country filled with law-abiding citizens till 1918, who were protected by the National Armed Forces and the Police - after 1918 there was plain chaos in Germany, and it was the e.g. Bavarian Police that prevented that Nazi rabble's insurrection attempt - shot them up and locked them up, you are a plain idiot.

 

[Dagosa]

What the Founders actually said, in regards the private ownership of firearms, and their intended usage, blows your ridiculous claim out of the water.

Fascists, like you, hate it when the PEOPLE can tell you to go piss up a rope.

The founders lived in a world of black powder firearms, knives, harchets, bayonets and pikes.
Btw, fascism is RIGHT WING. That’s the Trump clan.

 

[M14 Shooter]

The national Guard is the federalized portion of the supposed militia but in reality, it is not militia at all it is part of the army.

Correct.
It was created under Congress's power to raise armies.
Paid for out of the federal budget.
Not militia

 

[M14 Shooter]

What private citizens might ‘think,’ ‘believe,’ ‘or ‘feel’ is lawfully and constitutionally irrelevant and completely devoid of legal merit.

An amazingly accurate assessment of 99.995% of your posts.
Well done.

 

[Failzero]

The governor of each statement has the right to call the militia to form up at a specified place at a specified time with their weapons to be organized and 'regulated by the state.

Any militia and its members that refuse become criminals and subject to state law.

All adult Males 18-54 who are not ( Current Duty Military ) ( Members of Law Enforcement ) ( Members of State House or Senate ) are considered Militia if Governor of California calls for Militia

 

[skye]