Ar-15 used by homeowner to stop 3 attackers shooting from a car...

[harmonica]

and can we stop with using Chicago as a pro-gun example?
very pro-gun St Louis has more than a 50% higher murder rate than Chicago

 

[harmonica]

the car analogy is ludicrous
cars are continuously re-designed for survival --guns re-designed to kill
cars are used 24/7 by MILLIONS every DAY and NIGHT
16 year olds....ever been on a highway before???!!!!
you can't calculate how much safer cars are
and this with many driving while drunk/tired/etc

cars necessary -- guns not as much

 

[harmonica]

this is very basic--most --over 90% --car deaths are not murder--unintentional
most gun deaths are intentional

 

[The Derp]

And the cops know the homeowner has an AR-15 and since he wasn't arrested....he must be a legal gun owner...

Seems as though this wasn't a spur-of-the-moment, gun fantasy. It seems like this specific homeowner was targeted for a specific reason. What could that reason be? The same people tried to burn down the house the day before. Do you know anything about this gun owner you are defending?

 

[2aguy]

And the cops know the homeowner has an AR-15 and since he wasn't arrested....he must be a legal gun owner...

Seems as though this wasn't a spur-of-the-moment, gun fantasy. It seems like this specific homeowner was targeted for a specific reason. What could that reason be? The same people tried to burn down the house the day before. Do you know anything about this gun owner you are defending?

Nope...but the fact that the police didn't arrest him for the AR-15 tells us he isn't a criminal or a felon.....they would have arrested him for that if he had an illegal gun. You should follow the story, there may be more facts that come out....let me know what you find out....

 

[The Derp]

And the cops know the homeowner has an AR-15 and since he wasn't arrested....he must be a legal gun owner...

Seems as though this wasn't a spur-of-the-moment, gun fantasy. It seems like this specific homeowner was targeted for a specific reason. What could that reason be? The same people tried to burn down the house the day before. Do you know anything about this gun owner you are defending?

Nope...but the fact that the police didn't arrest him for the AR-15 tells us he isn't a criminal or a felon.....they would have arrested him for that if he had an illegal gun. You should follow the story, there may be more facts that come out....let me know what you find out....

So you don't know anything about the guy. Do you even have a name?

 

[2aguy]

this is very basic--most --over 90% --car deaths are not murder--unintentional
most gun deaths are intentional

Which is even worse.......38,000 car deaths are accidents......intentional suicide accounts for the majority of gun deaths, and illegal murder for another 11,000, 70-80% of those victims are not innocent people but criminals engaged in crime or the criminal life...

At the same time...according to bill clinton and barak obama Americans use their guns 1,500,000 times a year to stop violent criminals.....that is far more than lives taken with guns by criminals.

 

[2aguy]

And the cops know the homeowner has an AR-15 and since he wasn't arrested....he must be a legal gun owner...

Seems as though this wasn't a spur-of-the-moment, gun fantasy. It seems like this specific homeowner was targeted for a specific reason. What could that reason be? The same people tried to burn down the house the day before. Do you know anything about this gun owner you are defending?

Nope...but the fact that the police didn't arrest him for the AR-15 tells us he isn't a criminal or a felon.....they would have arrested him for that if he had an illegal gun. You should follow the story, there may be more facts that come out....let me know what you find out....

So you don't know anything about the guy. Do you even have a name?

I gave you the story....and the fact that he wasn't arrested by the police...which means he isn't a criminal....at least not yet.

 

[2aguy]

the car analogy is ludicrous
cars are continuously re-designed for survival --guns re-designed to kill
cars are used 24/7 by MILLIONS every DAY and NIGHT
16 year olds....ever been on a highway before???!!!!
you can't calculate how much safer cars are
and this with many driving while drunk/tired/etc

cars necessary -- guns not as much

Guns are used 1,500,000 times a year by Americans to stop rape, robbery and murder...lives saved. And accidents with guns with 600 million in private hands....495.....cars...over 38,000 in 2016....

 

[The Derp]

And the cops know the homeowner has an AR-15 and since he wasn't arrested....he must be a legal gun owner...

Seems as though this wasn't a spur-of-the-moment, gun fantasy. It seems like this specific homeowner was targeted for a specific reason. What could that reason be? The same people tried to burn down the house the day before. Do you know anything about this gun owner you are defending?

Nope...but the fact that the police didn't arrest him for the AR-15 tells us he isn't a criminal or a felon.....they would have arrested him for that if he had an illegal gun. You should follow the story, there may be more facts that come out....let me know what you find out....

So you don't know anything about the guy. Do you even have a name?

I gave you the story....and the fact that he wasn't arrested by the police...which means he isn't a criminal....at least not yet.

You didn't really give me much. The "story" was 4 paragraphs and didn't include any names. Then you left out a key part of the story (that the guy was targeted the day before), and don't ask "why"?

 

[The Derp]

Guns are used 1,500,000 times a year by Americans to stop rape, robbery and murder...lives saved.

From where did you get this number? Because it sounds made up.

And accidents with guns with 600 million in private hands....495.....cars...over 38,000 in 2016....

There are not 600 million guns in this country. There are 350 million and those guns are in fewer and fewer hands because gun ownership is at its lowest level in 40 years.

 

[2aguy]

And the cops know the homeowner has an AR-15 and since he wasn't arrested....he must be a legal gun owner...

Seems as though this wasn't a spur-of-the-moment, gun fantasy. It seems like this specific homeowner was targeted for a specific reason. What could that reason be? The same people tried to burn down the house the day before. Do you know anything about this gun owner you are defending?

Nope...but the fact that the police didn't arrest him for the AR-15 tells us he isn't a criminal or a felon.....they would have arrested him for that if he had an illegal gun. You should follow the story, there may be more facts that come out....let me know what you find out....

So you don't know anything about the guy. Do you even have a name?

I gave you the story....and the fact that he wasn't arrested by the police...which means he isn't a criminal....at least not yet.

You didn't really give me much. The "story" was 4 paragraphs and didn't include any names. Then you left out a key part of the story (that the guy was targeted the day before), and don't ask "why"?

I gave you the news story......if you want, follow that news organization and see what develops, that is what I would do.....they often don't include much details, especially if the defensive gun use save lives...there is a bias against any story that shows a law abiding gun owner using a gun successfully......they rarely make national news, and are barely covered by local news...

 

[2aguy]

Guns are used 1,500,000 times a year by Americans to stop rape, robbery and murder...lives saved.

From where did you get this number? Because it sounds made up.

And accidents with guns with 600 million in private hands....495.....cars...over 38,000 in 2016....

There are not 600 million guns in this country. There are 350 million and those guns are in fewer and fewer hands because gun ownership is at its lowest level in 40 years.

Wrong.....I have seen estimates of 600 million guns.......and no, gun ownership is not the lowest in 40 years...gun owners are no longer answering surveys and polls about their guns......because people are putting their names in papers......

 

[2aguy]

Guns are used 1,500,000 times a year by Americans to stop rape, robbery and murder...lives saved.

From where did you get this number? Because it sounds made up.

And accidents with guns with 600 million in private hands....495.....cars...over 38,000 in 2016....

There are not 600 million guns in this country. There are 350 million and those guns are in fewer and fewer hands because gun ownership is at its lowest level in 40 years.

From where did you get this number? Because it sounds made up.


The number for defensive gun uses comes from the bill clinton Department of Justice Study on gun self defense....he commissioned the research after Gary Kleck came out with his research showing 2.5 million defensive gun uses.....clinton hired 2 anti gun researchers who created their own study, used their own methods...and came out with 1.5 million defensive gun uses....then, in 2013, obama wanted to restart the gun control debate and had the CDC study all available research on guns......spent 10 million dollars to do it...they came out with the number 500,000 to 3 million defensive gun uses........

Here is the study commissioned by bill clinton....and done through the Department of Justice...
========
https://www.ncjrs.gov/pdffiles/165476.pdf

Applying those restrictions leaves 19 NSPOF respondents (0.8 percent of the sample), representing 1.5 million defensive users. This estimate is directly comparable to the well-known estimate of Kleck and Gertz, shown in the last column of exhibit 7. While the NSPOF estimate is smaller, it is statistically plausible that the difference is due to sampling error. Inclusion of multiple DGUs reported by half of the 19 NSPOF respondents increases the estimate to 4.7 million DGUs.



Same study But the original work .........

https://everytownresearch.org/documents/2015/09/guns-america-1996-police-foundation-survey.pdf

Page 62-63

n the third column of Table 6.2, we apply the Kleck and Gertz (1995) criteria for "genuine" DGUs (type A), leaving us with just 19 respondents. They represent 1.5 million defensive users. This estimate is directly comparable to the well-known Kleck and Gertz estimate of 2.5 million, shown in the last

While ours is smaller, it is staistically plausible that the difference is due to sampling error. to the when we include the multiple DGUs victim. defensive reported by half our 19 respondents, our estimate increases to 4.7 milli

While ours is smaller, it is statistically plausible that the difference petrator; in most cases (69 percent), the is due to sampling error. Note that when we include the multiple DGUs reported by half our 19 respondents, our estimate increases to 4.7 million DGUs.
----

As shown in Table 6.6, the defender fired his or her gun in 27 percent of these incidents (combined "fire warning shots" and "fire at perpetrator" percentages, though some respondents reported firing both warning shots and airning at the perpetrator). Forty percent of these were "warning shots," and about a third were aimed at the perpetrator but missed. The perpetrator was wounded by the crime victim in eight percent of all DGUs. In nine percent of DGUs the victim captured and held the perpetrator at gunpoint until the police could arrive.
==============



Here are all of the studies on defensive gun use going back 41 years.....

The name of the group doing the study, the year of the study, the number of defensive gun uses and if police and military defensive gun uses are included.....notice the bill clinton and obama defensive gun use research is highlighted.....

GunCite-Gun Control-How Often Are Guns Used in Self-Defense

GunCite Frequency of Defensive Gun Use in Previous Surveys

Field...1976....3,052,717 ( no cops, military)

DMIa 1978...2,141,512 ( no cops, military)

L.A. TIMES...1994...3,609,68 ( no cops, military)

Kleck......1994...2.5 million ( no cops, military)

Obama's CDC....2013....500,000--3million

--------------------


Bordua...1977...1,414,544

DMIb...1978...1,098,409 ( no cops, military)

Hart...1981...1.797,461 ( no cops, military)

Mauser...1990...1,487,342 ( no cops, military)

Gallup...1993...1,621,377 ( no cops, military)

DEPT. OF JUSTICE...1994...1.5 million ( the bill clinton study)

Journal of Quantitative Criminology--- 989,883 times per year."

(Based on survey data from a 2000 study published in the Journal of Quantitative Criminology,[17] U.S. civilians use guns to defend themselves and others from crime at least 989,883 times per year.[18])

Paper: "Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment." By David McDowall and others. Journal of Quantitative Criminology, March 2000. Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment - Springer


-------------------------------------------

Ohio...1982...771,043

Gallup...1991...777,152

Tarrance... 1994... 764,036 (no cops, military)

Lawerence Southwich Jr. 400,000 fewer violent crimes and at least 800,000 violent crimes deterred..

*****************************************
If you take the studies from that Kleck cites in his paper, 16 of them....and you only average the ones that exclude military and police shootings..the average becomes 2 million...I use those studies because I have the details on them...and they are still 10 studies (including Kleck's)....

 

[The Derp]

Wrong.....I have seen estimates of 600 million guns.......and no, gun ownership is not the lowest in 40 years...gun owners are no longer answering surveys and polls about their guns......because people are putting their names in papers......

So the "responsible gun owners" won't answer truthfully in an anonymous survey?

Who believes this shit!?

 

[2aguy]

Wrong.....I have seen estimates of 600 million guns.......and no, gun ownership is not the lowest in 40 years...gun owners are no longer answering surveys and polls about their guns......because people are putting their names in papers......

So the "responsible gun owners" won't answer truthfully in an anonymous survey?

Who believes this shit!?

No....they won't tell anonymous callers if they own guns.....and considering that various newspapers posted the names and addresses of legal gun owners after Sandy Hook, they became even less likely to answer questions about gun ownership. Why would you tell a stranger, over the phone if you keep a gun in your home? How do you know who the guy is and wether or not he is looking to steal guns?

 

[JimmyC]

A legal AR-15 was used by a homeowner to stop an attack by 3 men.....40 rounds were fired in the exchange, all 3 criminals were hit, the homeowner wasn't hit ......

the tool used by the homeowner....an AR-15 self defense rifle...

Homeowner shoots at drive-by suspects, killing 2

Two people are dead and one is in the hospital after a homeowner fired back during a shooting in North Houston.

Investigators say early Saturday morning a suspect vehicle drove up to the homeowner's house on Glenburnie Drive and started shooting.

The homeowner was outside at the time and he hid behind a bush in the yard and returned fire. Officers say more than 40 shots were fired in the exchange.

Don't take this the wrong way, just advancing the culture through suggestion:
I am an AR15 owner along with may other rifles, mostly semi auto.
This type of discussion is why we are perceived as "The blood thirsty gun culture". Killing is nothing to be proud of whether it be hunting or self defense. It is nothing to boast of. Express sorrow and give thanks for the food / game you kill and speak of self defense killings softly and with regret. The poor soul that lost his / her life is just that -a lost soul.
If we are to gain respect from the unhinged left, WE ALL MUST BE HUMBLE AND KIND. I get it - and respect your support of the 2nd amendment, but...
I always refer to the AR type rifles as MODULAR gun technology. My rifles are not Assault Rifles because I don't assault anyone with them. Bad intent should never be implied with the description of a gun. I own some Modern Sorting Rifles or Modular Rifles. The left has taught us well by calling them assault rifles and we just follow their lead.
When and if people ask I tell them they are made of metal and composite materials that does not require or use wood. I always begin by talking about the skills required to shoot and how target shooting is a sport. It's fun. Look at the bright side.
I respectfully ask that we become intellectual about our gun conversations and change the mindset of listeners and readers. It's probably too late already.
Bear arms for sport and use in defense as a last resort.
God bless and hone your shooting skills!

 

[airplanemechanic]

A legal AR-15 was used by a homeowner to stop an attack by 3 men.....40 rounds were fired in the exchange, all 3 criminals were hit, the homeowner wasn't hit ......

the tool used by the homeowner....an AR-15 self defense rifle...

Homeowner shoots at drive-by suspects, killing 2

Two people are dead and one is in the hospital after a homeowner fired back during a shooting in North Houston.

Investigators say early Saturday morning a suspect vehicle drove up to the homeowner's house on Glenburnie Drive and started shooting.

The homeowner was outside at the time and he hid behind a bush in the yard and returned fire. Officers say more than 40 shots were fired in the exchange.

Hmm what's the score in the AR league?

Good guys: 3
Bad guys: 17

Pussy
You need to find a scarier boogie man than the AR15 sporting rifle... they are harmless

Sporting rifle? Harmless?

Yep. Not even powerful enough to use for legal deer hunting. It's only .22 caliber. Tiny bullet. It's a varmint rifle at best.

 

[aaronleland]

A legal AR-15 was used by a homeowner to stop an attack by 3 men.....40 rounds were fired in the exchange, all 3 criminals were hit, the homeowner wasn't hit ......

the tool used by the homeowner....an AR-15 self defense rifle...

Homeowner shoots at drive-by suspects, killing 2

Two people are dead and one is in the hospital after a homeowner fired back during a shooting in North Houston.

Investigators say early Saturday morning a suspect vehicle drove up to the homeowner's house on Glenburnie Drive and started shooting.

The homeowner was outside at the time and he hid behind a bush in the yard and returned fire. Officers say more than 40 shots were fired in the exchange.

Hmm what's the score in the AR league?

Good guys: 3
Bad guys: 17

Pussy
You need to find a scarier boogie man than the AR15 sporting rifle... they are harmless

Sporting rifle? Harmless?

Yep. Not even powerful enough to use for legal deer hunting. It's only .22 caliber. Tiny bullet. It's a varmint rifle at best.

And harmless enough to kill 17 children before the police arrive.

 

[xyz]

A legal AR-15 was used by a homeowner to stop an attack by 3 men.....40 rounds were fired in the exchange, all 3 criminals were hit, the homeowner wasn't hit ......

the tool used by the homeowner....an AR-15 self defense rifle...

Homeowner shoots at drive-by suspects, killing 2

Two people are dead and one is in the hospital after a homeowner fired back during a shooting in North Houston.

Investigators say early Saturday morning a suspect vehicle drove up to the homeowner's house on Glenburnie Drive and started shooting.

The homeowner was outside at the time and he hid behind a bush in the yard and returned fire. Officers say more than 40 shots were fired in the exchange.

I'm not saying he shouldn't have an AR-15, but what was he doing with it in his yard?

And don't think it was target practice because that seems to be a suburban area.