arbery trial and race

[colfax_m]

Legally, just prior to Arbery getting shot, he was chasing the McMichael's.

Hell no. Let's not ignore the fact that Arbery had just doubled back twice as a result of the various trucks trying to cut him off. Just before the conflict, the McMichael's had driven past Arbery and stopped just in front of him in his path with another pursuer coming from behind him to have him covered on both ends of the road. That was when Travis McMichael exited the truck with his shotgun.

The totality of the facts pain it perfectly clear who is the aggressor.

 

[YoursTruly]

Why did Travis jump out of his vehicle with a loaded gun? Why didn't he just drive on up the road if Ahmaud was 100 yards from him, that's the length of a football field. Why did Greg say, " He was cornered like a rat" if they weren't chasing him. Why did Greg say, "Stop GD or I will shoot you". Explain that.

The man with the video camera was following Arbery. That could've been why Arbery kept running towards the McMichael's.

The threat was their redneck way of trying to get Arbery to stop. If you're trying to catch a suspected thief, it's not real smart to do it unarmed. Greg is an ex-cop of some sorts, and knows this. People raised by wolves know this. The threat of force to get a suspected criminal to stop, usually works. I know I would stop. In fact, if I was innocently trespassing, looking at a new construction (which I've done) and was told to stop and answer some questions as to why I was trespassing, I would. Regardless if the person was armed or not. That's just common courtesy. If I ran, I would be suspect.

From a previous webcam of an incident with police, Arbery is very quick tempered. Sort of an "entitled" attitude. As if he is entitled to do what ever he wants, without question. That was his reaction to the police. And apparently to everyone else.

Did he think he was entitled to attack Greg? Apparently so.

 

[YoursTruly]

Trace of THC in Ahmaud Arbery's blood will not be disclosed to jury, U.S. judge rules​

Skipped...........(Events leading up to the shooting)

The defense has also sought to tell the jury that Arbery had been diagnosed with schizoaffective disorder, and that smoking marijuana can cause aggression in someone with this condition. The judge previously ruled that Arbery's mental health records are not admissible as evidence, and warned defense lawyers against using the THC toxicology report as a way to bring up Arbery's mental health before the jury.

 

[YoursTruly]

Hell no. Let's not ignore the fact that Arbery had just doubled back twice as a result of the various trucks trying to cut him off. Just before the conflict, the McMichael's had driven past Arbery and stopped just in front of him in his path with another pursuer coming from behind him to have him covered on both ends of the road. That was when Travis McMichael exited the truck with his shotgun.

The totality of the facts pain it perfectly clear who is the aggressor.

Trying to catch a suspected thief in your neighborhood, to question (even if you're armed) is not against the law. It's common sense. It's helping your neighbors. It's morally and legally legal. It's what good neighbors do. And for good reason.
When that suspect won't stop, won't talk, and the cops are not even close to being there, it's the right and legal thing to do. Being armed is also legal. What's not legal is attacking someone. What's stupid is attacking someone who's armed. Which is what Arbery did. He attacked an armed man.
The right things for Arbery to do, is just stop and have a conversation as to why you were trespassing on private property. Snooping around in someone else's house. Let someone know you were was just looking around.

Was diagnosed with a mental disorder and had been smoking pot. According to medical information, pot makes people with his mental condition, can make them aggressive. Seeing the webcam footage from the prior incident, that seems to be true.

Both parties were aggressive. But the McMichael's aggressiveness is warranted, due to the fact that Arbery had just trespassed and was caught doing it. So if his intentions (trespassing) were not to steal anything, then there was no reason to run and make things more suspicious.
Just as the webcam shows, just have a conversation. Not get all riled up and aggressive.

With all the chasing, the defense in wrong about "false imprisonment" and detaining Arbery. They never stopped Arbery. They never confined him. They may have attempted to. But they were unsuccessful in their attempt.

 

[YoursTruly]

There's no emotion in what I'm saying. As I said before, initially, I wanted the McMichael's to be guilty. But examining all those minor details, and comparing those details with the law, line by line, there's no legal way to convict McMichael.

 

[colfax_m]

Trying to catch a suspected thief in your neighborhood, to question (even if you're armed) is not against the law. It's common sense. It's helping your neighbors. It's morally and legally legal. It's what good neighbors do. And for good reason.
When that suspect won't stop, won't talk, and the cops are not even close to being there, it's the right and legal thing to do. Being armed is also legal. What's not legal is attacking someone. What's stupid is attacking someone who's armed. Which is what Arbery did. He attacked an armed man.
The right things for Arbery to do, is just stop and have a conversation as to why you were trespassing on private property. Snooping around in someone else's house. Let someone know you were was just looking around.

Was diagnosed with a mental disorder and had been smoking pot. According to medical information, pot makes people with his mental condition, can make them aggressive. Seeing the webcam footage from the prior incident, that seems to be true.

Both parties were aggressive. But the McMichael's aggressiveness is warranted, due to the fact that Arbery had just trespassed and was caught doing it. So if his intentions (trespassing) were not to steal anything, then there was no reason to run and make things more suspicious.
Just as the webcam shows, just have a conversation. Not get all riled up and aggressive.

With all the chasing, the defense in wrong about "false imprisonment" and detaining Arbery. They never stopped Arbery. They never confined him. They may have attempted to. But they were unsuccessful in their attempt.

Trying to catch a suspected thief is only legal under certain circumstances.

No McMichael saw Arbery commit a crime. They did not have immediate knowledge of commission of a crime. And even if they were aware that he had been in the house (they weren't), it wouldn't have been justification.

For starters, trespassing would not have been a felony. Two, since the house was open, and since no one had asked Arbery to leave the property or notified him to stay off the property.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

It is assault. They’re being charged with assault.

Because they shot him, not because he followed them.

 

[colfax_m]

Because they shot him, not because he followed them.

No, that's the murder charge.

Before they shot him, they assaulted him. I'll remind you, assault does not actually mean you do anything to anyone other than make them feel like the threat of harm is imminent.

I'd say chasing someone down with a gun and threatening to blow their head off qualifies.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

With all the chasing, the defense in wrong about "false imprisonment" and detaining Arbery. They never stopped Arbery. They never confined him. They may have attempted to. But they were unsuccessful in their attempt.

People are chasing me with a gun and I have no idea why. Arbery probably felt like there was no way out. You're not going to outrun a person trying to kill you with a gun no matter how fast you run.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

No, that's the murder charge.

Before they shot him, they assaulted him. I'll remind you, assault does not actually mean you do anything to anyone other than make them feel like the threat of harm is imminent.

I'd say chasing someone down with a gun and threatening to blow their head off qualifies.

They pile on charges with the main charge. It's normal in our judicial system. You kill somebody with your car because you're drunk. You get the vehicular homicide charge. but also a DUI charge, not wearing a seat belt, not using a turn signal and so on.

 

[YoursTruly]

People are chasing me with a gun and I have no idea why. Arbery probably felt like there was no way out. You're not going to outrun a person trying to kill you with a gun no matter how fast you run.

It's proven that they were not out to kill Arbery. For the simple fact they had multiple chance to do so, and didn't, prior to Arbery charging McMichaels. The first shot was only AFTER Arbery charged.

You see, those minor details turn into major ones.

 

[colfax_m]

They pile on charges with the main charge. It's normal in our judicial system. You kill somebody with your car because you're drunk. You get the vehicular homicide charge. but also a DUI charge, not wearing a seat belt, not using a turn signal and so on.

Still dodging the issue that assault was committed before Arbery touched the gun.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

It's proven that they were not out to kill Arbery. For the simple fact they had multiple chance to do so, and didn't, prior to Arbery charging McMichaels. The first shot was only AFTER Arbery charged.

You see, those minor details turn into major ones.

The major detail is they assumed the role of a police officer, chased and addressed a person with a loaded firearm and killed him. If we allow a vigilante society then we've entered anarchism. Like these guys, they had no ability to inspect their suspicion. Turns out the guy didn't do anything wrong other than trespass. But we don't hunt down trespassers and kill them. We call the police and let them handle it the proper way.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Still dodging the issue that assault was committed before Arbery touched the gun.

Which you have no evidence of. I bet if I went to the Georgia website and looked up the legal definition of assault, nowhere will I find chasing people with a firearm.

 

[Superbadbrutha]

The man with the video camera was following Arbery. That could've been why Arbery kept running towards the McMichael's.

The threat was their redneck way of trying to get Arbery to stop. If you're trying to catch a suspected thief, it's not real smart to do it unarmed. Greg is an ex-cop of some sorts, and knows this. People raised by wolves know this. The threat of force to get a suspected criminal to stop, usually works. I know I would stop. In fact, if I was innocently trespassing, looking at a new construction (which I've done) and was told to stop and answer some questions as to why I was trespassing, I would. Regardless if the person was armed or not. That's just common courtesy. If I ran, I would be suspect.

From a previous webcam of an incident with police, Arbery is very quick tempered. Sort of an "entitled" attitude. As if he is entitled to do what ever he wants, without question. That was his reaction to the police. And apparently to everyone else.

Did he think he was entitled to attack Greg? Apparently so.

That's the conclusion you have come to. If I am planning to do someone harm I would have a gun, knife, brick, bat, etc. There was only 2 people with guns, 3 men chasing one man for a crime that none of them had seen him commit. You can't detain someone and then say we'll let's see if they committed a crime.

 

[colfax_m]

Which you have no evidence of. I bet if I went to the Georgia website and looked up the legal definition of assault, nowhere will I find chasing people with a firearm.

No evidence of? They chased him down with trucks and got out with a gun in hand.

Here's the statute:

2010 Georgia Code :: TITLE 16 - CRIMES AND OFFENSES :: CHAPTER 5 - CRIMES AGAINST THE PERSON :: ARTICLE 2 - ASSAULT AND BATTERY :: § 16-5-20 - Simple assault

law.justia.com

(2) Commits an act which places another in reasonable apprehension of immediately receiving a violent injury.

I'd say chasing someone down with a gun puts them at reasonable apprehension of immediately receiving a violent injury.

 

[YoursTruly]

The major detail is they assumed the role of a police officer, chased and addressed a person with a loaded firearm and killed him. If we allow a vigilante society then we've entered anarchism. Like these guys, they had no ability to inspect their suspicion. Turns out the guy didn't do anything wrong other than trespass. But we don't hunt down trespassers and kill them. We call the police and let them handle it the proper way.

Killing him is the end result. Chasing him is irrelevant once Arbery started running towards Greg. That makes Arbery the last aggressor. Charging Greg, armed or not, makes Arbery the aggressor and assailant.

Had Arbery just ran passed the truck, and Greg chased after Arbery again, then Greg would still be the aggressor. But that's not what happened. So again, it's irrelevant that the McMichael's chanced Arbery. Those are just the events that lead up to Arbery getting aggressive.

Compare this to the Rittenhouse case. Also self defense. And let's assume that Kyle was waving his gun around and bragging about it. That still would not allow Rosenbaum the right to chase and attempt to attack KR. Once Rosenbaum began chasing KR, that made him the aggressor. Especially since KR was moving away from Rosenbaum. In the Arbery video, you can clearly see Gregs and his feet backing away from Arbery. This makes Arbery the aggressor.

 

[Superbadbrutha]

Killing him is the end result. Chasing him is irrelevant once Arbery started running towards Greg. That makes Arbery the last aggressor. Charging Greg, armed or not, makes Arbery the aggressor and assailant.

Had Arbery just ran passed the truck, and Greg chased after Arbery again, then Greg would still be the aggressor. But that's not what happened. So again, it's irrelevant that the McMichael's chanced Arbery. Those are just the events that lead up to Arbery getting aggressive.

Compare this to the Rittenhouse case. Also self defense. And let's assume that Kyle was waving his gun around and bragging about it. That still would not allow Rosenbaum the right to chase and attempt to attack KR. Once Rosenbaum began chasing KR, that made him the aggressor. Especially since KR was moving away from Rosenbaum. In the Arbery video, you can clearly see Gregs and his feet backing away from Arbery. This makes Arbery the aggressor.

What Law makes Arbery the aggressor, please post that.

 

[YoursTruly]

That's the conclusion you have come to. If I am planning to do someone harm I would have a gun, knife, brick, bat, etc. There was only 2 people with guns, 3 men chasing one man for a crime that none of them had seen him commit. You can't detain someone and then say we'll let's see if they committed a crime.

As true as that might be, Arbery never got to a place to get a weapon. What you're describing is having the time to arm yourself. Arbery didn't have the time to get home to get a weapon.

On your second point, at least one of them seen Arbery coming out of the house and running when he seen he was being watched coming out of the house. This is how Arbery became suspect. This is the ONLY reason they pursued Arbery, because he was seen coming out of the house and then bolting.

You can should'a, could'a would'a this to death, and it would be irrelevant as to what either of them should've done. As in Arbery explaining to the person who witnessed him coming out of the house why he was trespassing. But that's irrelevant.
What is completely relevant is that Arbery ran towards the McMichael's. (totally legal and justifiable) But what is not legal and justifiable, is making the sharp left hand turn in front of the truck and charging Greg. Greg didn't raise his gun up until AFTER Arbery charged him. Greg didn't fire until AFTER Arbery reached for Greg and his gun.

 

[YoursTruly]

What Law makes Arbery the aggressor, please post that.

When Arbery made the sharp left in front of the truck and bolted for Greg. Had he proceeded straight forward, he would NOT have been the aggressor/assailant.
I get it. Dudes are following him, and won't leave him alone. He apparently wasn't going to stand for it any longer. He was going to take action, BY GOD!!!!! He was going to put an end to being followed.
This stems from his mental state. And according to science, the THC in his system, coupled with his mental disorder maybe the culprit in his aggression. But, that's also irrelevant since the judge won't allow the toxicology report or psychologist to testify in the court. Which IMO, is bias in favor of the prosecution because a persons state of mind is completely relevant to this case.