Are all gays born that way?

[koshergrl]

What science?
There is no science that proves homosexuality is hardwired.

 

[BDBoop]

What science?
There is no science that proves homosexuality is hardwired.

Apparently, there's not a gene that made me left-handed, either.

 

[BluePhantom]

Marriage is conditional.
Not every couple can legally marry.
You can't marry your mother or sister or daughter.
Now, in some states, you can't marry someone of the same sex.

Which group, mothers, sisters, daughters, or gays are asking for special treatment?

How is it special if all the straight couples have that treatment?

You and I have had this discussion, before, Bo and you know I think that you should the same right to lose half your shit in a divorce as I do.

But if a state and it's voters make a certain decision, just don't reside there.

Not that easy, brother. Most people never move out of their home county let alone state. There are a lot of reasons for this but one of the big ones is economics. A lot of people don't have the money to relocate. So a homosexual individual that is born in Michigan, Oregon, or California, for example, that has no financial resources to relocate is in a situation where there is not only inequality regarding sexual orientation but faces a restriction of their civil rights due to poverty as well.

Now for those who can relocate, fine...but what if a same-sex couple gets a once in a lifetime job offer but would have to relocate to Oregon, California, or Michigan? Doing so would void their marriage and as such they could sue the state for untold millions because they are experiencing direct financial damages due to a civil rights violation.

By your suggestion, homosexuals would experience even more restrictions on their rights and suffer direct economic damages based upon the fact that they belong to a specific demographic of United States society. Yet in no state is there a situation where a given demographic of United States citizens cannot freely establish residency, work, marry, etc.....no demographic except homosexuals. That's not what this great nation is about...and I issue the warning: if we allow a specific demographic to have their constitutional rights violated we open up the door for other demographics to receive the same treatment. Today it might be homosexuals....tomorrow it might be Jews, Catholics, blacks, whites, women, the obese, people with bad credit, people in debt....you name it. That's not a path I am willing to endorse.

Whether one approves or disapproves of the gay lifestyle is irrelevant. Protecting the rights of all citizens equally should be paramount in our mind, because once you justify the opposite you create opportunity for further exploitation based on a different and completely arbitrary criteria.

 

[Gadawg73]

At one time the Christian church persecuted left handed folk also.
Amazing how ignorance prevails each and every election cycle.

 

[koshergrl]

What science?
There is no science that proves homosexuality is hardwired.

Apparently, there's not a gene that made me left-handed, either.

Actually, there is.

 

[koshergrl]

At one time the Christian church persecuted left handed folk also.
Amazing how ignorance prevails each and every election cycle.

Not allowing gays to marry isn't "persecution". It's just refusing to give them the benefits we allot to people who choose to participate in a favored social construct.

Indian tribes don't pay casino money to all Indians...just the ones in their tribe. Are they "persecuting" the people they aren't paying?

 

[TrinityPower]

The song by lady gaga keeps playing in my head called born this way lol
LADY GAGA - BORN THIS WAY LYRICS

 

[BluePhantom]

At one time the Christian church persecuted left handed folk also.
Amazing how ignorance prevails each and every election cycle.

Not allowing gays to marry isn't "persecution". It's just refusing to give them the benefits we allot to people who choose to participate in a favored social construct.

Hmmmm....well Jews make up about 2.1% of the United States population and they participate in activities that are not the "favored social construct". Shall we deny them the right to marry too? Southern Baptists 6.7%, Mormons 1.4%, Seventh Day Adventist 0.4%, Buddhists 0.5%, evangelicals 0.9%. All of them choose to participate in activities that are not in a "favored social construct". Shall we ban their rights to marry?

 

[Gadawg73]

At one time the Christian church persecuted left handed folk also.
Amazing how ignorance prevails each and every election cycle.

Not allowing gays to marry isn't "persecution". It's just refusing to give them the benefits we allot to people who choose to participate in a favored social construct.

Indian tribes don't pay casino money to all Indians...just the ones in their tribe. Are they "persecuting" the people they aren't paying?

The "favored social construct" this way was NO ******* for how many years?
Who makes the "favored social construct" rules?

 

[BluePhantom]

At one time the Christian church persecuted left handed folk also.
Amazing how ignorance prevails each and every election cycle.

Not allowing gays to marry isn't "persecution". It's just refusing to give them the benefits we allot to people who choose to participate in a favored social construct.

Indian tribes don't pay casino money to all Indians...just the ones in their tribe. Are they "persecuting" the people they aren't paying?

The "favored social construct" this way was NO ******* for how many years?
Who makes the "favored social construct" rules?

Her.

 

[koshergrl]

At one time the Christian church persecuted left handed folk also.
Amazing how ignorance prevails each and every election cycle.

Not allowing gays to marry isn't "persecution". It's just refusing to give them the benefits we allot to people who choose to participate in a favored social construct.

Indian tribes don't pay casino money to all Indians...just the ones in their tribe. Are they "persecuting" the people they aren't paying?

The "favored social construct" this way was NO ******* for how many years?
Who makes the "favored social construct" rules?

So is it discrimination when the casinos only pay out to their own tribe?

Is it discrimination when McDonald's employees aren't afforded the same tax breaks as people who employ hundreds of people?

 

[hortysir]

How is it special if all the straight couples have that treatment?

You and I have had this discussion, before, Bo and you know I think that you should the same right to lose half your shit in a divorce as I do.

But if a state and it's voters make a certain decision, just don't reside there.

Not that easy, brother. Most people never move out of their home county let alone state. There are a lot of reasons for this but one of the big ones is economics. A lot of people don't have the money to relocate. So a homosexual individual that is born in Michigan, Oregon, or California, for example, that has no financial resources to relocate is in a situation where there is not only inequality regarding sexual orientation but faces a restriction of their civil rights due to poverty as well.

Now for those who can relocate, fine...but what if a same-sex couple gets a once in a lifetime job offer but would have to relocate to Oregon, California, or Michigan? Doing so would void their marriage and as such they could sue the state for untold millions because they are experiencing direct financial damages due to a civil rights violation.

By your suggestion, homosexuals would experience even more restrictions on their rights and suffer direct economic damages based upon the fact that they belong to a specific demographic of United States society. Yet in no state is there a situation where a given demographic of United States citizens cannot freely establish residency, work, marry, etc.....no demographic except homosexuals. That's not what this great nation is about...and I issue the warning: if we allow a specific demographic to have their constitutional rights violated we open up the door for other demographics to receive the same treatment. Today it might be homosexuals....tomorrow it might be Jews, Catholics, blacks, whites, women, the obese, people with bad credit, people in debt....you name it. That's not a path I am willing to endorse.

Whether one approves or disapproves of the gay lifestyle is irrelevant. Protecting the rights of all citizens equally should be paramount in our mind, because once you justify the opposite you create opportunity for further exploitation based on a different and completely arbitrary criteria.

So gays ARE vying to become a protected class?

There is equal protection under the law, BP.
Like I pointed out earlier.
There are laws that say who can and cannot marry.

Will our next protected class be incestuous couples?


My main issue with gay marriage is the redefining of the word, itself.
I would be willing to recognize Civil Unions or Domestic Partnerships. The company I work for does for all of our benefits.
Ya just can't put an eraser on a marker and call it a pencil.

 

[Seawytch]

What science?
There is no science that proves homosexuality is hardwired.

There is, you just choose to ignore it. A preponderance of evidence points to a genetic predisposition. There is NONE that prove it is a choice. There's none that even hints that it is a choice.

I'm gay and I'm telling you I didn't choose. Can you choose your attractions? Perhaps you are bisexual.

 

[koshergrl]

No, there isn't. You are lying. Or just stupid.

The APA had to revise it's statement regarding the nature of homosexuality..after Kinsey was exposed, and they weren't able to buy or even fake evidence solid enough to support their previous assertion that it was hardwired.

 

[koshergrl]

"
The huge amount of change in sexual orientation is one of the clearest evidences that homosexuality is not hard-wired by genes or anything in the biological environment. "

"These very complex comparisons of identical twins and non-identical twins definitively rule out genetic determinism. Identical twins with identical genes are about 11-14% concordant for SSA. If homosexuality were “genetic,” identical co-twins of homosexual men and women would also be homosexual 100% of the time."

"There is no genetic determinism, and genetic influence at most is minor. Individualistic reactions to random factors are very important.
Those who say homosexuality is genetically influenced are correct, but only to about this degree:

If a girl becomes pregnant at age fifteen, we could argue that she is genetically predisposed to. We could say that in her culture, her genes gave her the kind of face and figure that send male hormones into orbit and bring her under a level of pressure that she is unable to resist. But that’s about the strength of the genetic influence. There are a huge number of environmental factors that could also have brought the pregnancy about, from cancellation of the basketball game she was going to watch with a girlfriend, permission to use Dad’s car, her boyfriend’s company, the movie they had just viewed together, and failure to use a contraceptive, to big environmental factors like personal values systems, peer group pressure, and an emotionally distant father. "

Summary of scientific findings on homosexuality | what does science say about homosexuality?
​

 

[Gadawg73]

Not allowing gays to marry isn't "persecution". It's just refusing to give them the benefits we allot to people who choose to participate in a favored social construct.

Indian tribes don't pay casino money to all Indians...just the ones in their tribe. Are they "persecuting" the people they aren't paying?

The "favored social construct" this way was NO ******* for how many years?
Who makes the "favored social construct" rules?

So is it discrimination when the casinos only pay out to their own tribe?

Is it discrimination when McDonald's employees aren't afforded the same tax breaks as people who employ hundreds of people?

Indians can get married no matter what tribe they are from.
McDonalds employees can get married no matter what tax break they get.
Everyone that gets tax breaks can get married.
Except gay folk.
See how stupid your post was?

 

[uscitizen]

Given the FACT that human reproduction requires intercourse between a man (donor) and a woman(host) isn't "gayness" a learned, or behavior modification i.e. "nature vs nurture"?

I mean researchers still haven't found a "dominate" GAY gene.
So existing gays are totally a "learned" or behavior modification response.

NOpe all of em are not born that way. No more than all republicans are born with the "republican brain".

 

[Seawytch]

Obviously you are going to ignore the overwhelming majority of scientists that will tell you sexual orientation is not a choice. So, that being the case, let's talk this out, Seawytch to Koshergrl, okay?

You want to insist that orientation is a choice (for what reason I don't know) so let's go with that for a sec...

Could you choose to have sex with a woman? And I'm not just talking about closing your eyes and being on the receiving end of the most mind blowing cunnilingus you've ever experienced, but giving it in return and caring about how well you were doing it?

And sex is just the fringe benefit...

Could you choose to be emotionally attracted to a woman? Could you choose to have your stomach flip flop when she smiled at you? Could you choose to want to melt when she gave you that certain look? Could you choose to want to spend the rest of your life with her as a partner in mind, body and soul? Could you choose to look at her every day and thank your lucky stars that she came into your life and hung a string of lights around your heart? Could you choose all that?

 

[uscitizen]

We should really do away with that marriage tax break.

 

[Seawytch]

The "favored social construct" this way was NO ******* for how many years?
Who makes the "favored social construct" rules?

So is it discrimination when the casinos only pay out to their own tribe?

Is it discrimination when McDonald's employees aren't afforded the same tax breaks as people who employ hundreds of people?

Indians can get married no matter what tribe they are from.
McDonalds employees can get married no matter what tax break they get.
Everyone that gets tax breaks can get married.
Except gay folk.
See how stupid your post was?

Committed murderers on death row can get married no matter what prison they are in. (SCOTUS ruling)