Are people basically good?

[ding]

And my point was actually the opposite: that someone who is good could be seen as “unsuccessful” and someone who does bad could be seen as successful.

Honestly, the slogan “successful behaviors leads to successful outcomes” sounds like one of those shallow self-help guru slogans that people use. It can easily be misconstrued or misused to prove that material success makes a person “good.”

Exactly!~ lol.....self-help slogans.

"bad behaviors lead to bad outcomes"


It's like a self-sooth for him

Self evident truths that we all know and can understand when we aren’t trying to be dicks.

 

[ricechickie]

I keep pondering “successful behaviors lead to successful outcomes” and are therefore “good.”

Are there not people who are seen as successful who got that way through dishonest means? Or even through honest, but let’s say, “cutthroat” means, which may be at the expense of others. Are those people “good”?

I think you are reading successful too narrowly. Especially since my reference was using peace and harmony versus disorder and chaos. It’s almost like you are going out of your way to look for reasons to not believe that there are good and bad behaviors.

I specifically used the phrase “people who are seen as successful “ in order to avoid defining it too narrowly.

The point is that most people define success narrowly, based on the most superficial criteria.

How do you measure success?

Think of it this way, two people who are caring, thankful and humble will always have a more successful relationship than two people who are cruel, thankless and selfish.

Success is a broad measure but we all know what it looks like in reference to failure. It can be measured many ways, but the contrast to its antithesis is always stark.

I suppose it depends on what one’s goal is, as to whether one is successful or has failed.

 

[G.T.]

I keep pondering “successful behaviors lead to successful outcomes” and are therefore “good.”

Are there not people who are seen as successful who got that way through dishonest means? Or even through honest, but let’s say, “cutthroat” means, which may be at the expense of others. Are those people “good”?

I think you are reading successful too narrowly. Especially since my reference was using peace and harmony versus disorder and chaos. It’s almost like you are going out of your way to look for reasons to not believe that there are good and bad behaviors.

I specifically used the phrase “people who are seen as successful “ in order to avoid defining it too narrowly.

The point is that most people define success narrowly, based on the most superficial criteria.

How do you measure success?

Think of it this way, two people who are caring, thankful and humble will always have a more successful relationship than two people who are cruel, thankless and selfish.

Success is a broad measure but we all know what it looks like in reference to failure. It can be measured many ways, but the contrast to its antithesis is always stark.

I suppose it depends on what one’s goal is, as to whether one is successful or has failed.

Egg sack, Lee.

 

[Taz]

People are good, it's god who's got all the evil stuff going on.

 

[G.T.]

People are good, it's god who's got all the evil stuff going on.

Leviticus tells us that the Christian God murdered 42 Children with two female bears for calling someone Bald.


Lol I have so many questions...

 

[ricechickie]

Clearly God will not have male pride offended!

 

[frigidweirdo]

To answer this question, we should first define what "good" means to each of us, and then answer.

What say you?

Humans like to pretend they're good, and will present it as such (unless they've gone to the dark side), but will often do things that even they think are bad.

 

[ding]

I keep pondering “successful behaviors lead to successful outcomes” and are therefore “good.”

Are there not people who are seen as successful who got that way through dishonest means? Or even through honest, but let’s say, “cutthroat” means, which may be at the expense of others. Are those people “good”?

I think you are reading successful too narrowly. Especially since my reference was using peace and harmony versus disorder and chaos. It’s almost like you are going out of your way to look for reasons to not believe that there are good and bad behaviors.

I specifically used the phrase “people who are seen as successful “ in order to avoid defining it too narrowly.

The point is that most people define success narrowly, based on the most superficial criteria.

How do you measure success?

Think of it this way, two people who are caring, thankful and humble will always have a more successful relationship than two people who are cruel, thankless and selfish.

Success is a broad measure but we all know what it looks like in reference to failure. It can be measured many ways, but the contrast to its antithesis is always stark.

I suppose it depends on what one’s goal is, as to whether one is successful or has failed.

Sure, if your goal is to get divorced than acting selfishly and cheating on your spouse would be the way to go. However, if your goal is to have a happy and long lived marriage then being faithful and selfless is the better choice.

But most people tend to view success and failure in the traditional sense. Where success is defined as good and failure is defined as bad.

 

[ricechickie]

I keep pondering “successful behaviors lead to successful outcomes” and are therefore “good.”

Are there not people who are seen as successful who got that way through dishonest means? Or even through honest, but let’s say, “cutthroat” means, which may be at the expense of others. Are those people “good”?

I think you are reading successful too narrowly. Especially since my reference was using peace and harmony versus disorder and chaos. It’s almost like you are going out of your way to look for reasons to not believe that there are good and bad behaviors.

I specifically used the phrase “people who are seen as successful “ in order to avoid defining it too narrowly.

The point is that most people define success narrowly, based on the most superficial criteria.

How do you measure success?

Think of it this way, two people who are caring, thankful and humble will always have a more successful relationship than two people who are cruel, thankless and selfish.

Success is a broad measure but we all know what it looks like in reference to failure. It can be measured many ways, but the contrast to its antithesis is always stark.

I suppose it depends on what one’s goal is, as to whether one is successful or has failed.

Sure, if your goal is to get divorced than acting selfishly and cheating on your spouse would be the way to go. However, if your goal is to have a happy and long lived marriage then being faithful and selfless is the better choice.

But most people tend to view success and failure in the traditional sense. Where success is defined as good and failure is defined as bad.

You were the one who said my definition of success might have been too narrow. Now you seem to want to narrow it.

Consider this example:

A woman with children works hard, makes money, and gets promoted. The promotion involves more hours, more travel, but a hefty raise. The family will be well off, but everyone else will feel the strain and have to sacrifice time and energy to make up for her absence.

If her goal is to make as much money as she can, she takes the job and is successful.

If her goal is being there for her kids’ lives as much as possible, then she doesn’t take the job, and she’s successful.

Those who share her values and goals will applaud her decision. Those who don’t may even go so far as to call her a failure.

 

[Cecilie1200]

I'd define good as that which causes the least amount of suffering. I'd say humans are basically good, and this is a result of bio & socio evolution.

The least amount of suffering for whom?

If a mother sacrifices her life to save her child, the child does not suffer - except of course for the loss of its mother - but the mother suffers greatly. So in this case that which was good actually caused a great deal of suffering. Of course, you could argue the mother may have suffered more if she did not sacrifice her life and that may be correct. Which leads us to the root cause of good... selflessness. That which is good is selfless.

Otherwise we get into competing suffering which leads to the rule of capture which we all know is not good.

Being a Christian simplifies these questions enormously (although far from entirely).

I define "good" as those things which bring me closer to God spiritually, and which make me more of the person He would want me to be.

In the example above, my children are a gift from God, and caring for and protecting them is the highest duty and responsibility He has given me on Earth, after the Commandment to love Him. Therefore, the difference between what is good and what is bad is clear and discernible, assuming I even needed to take the time to logic it out. I think it's safe to assume my choice in the moment would be instant and instinctive.

 

[Likkmee]

New Living Translation
The LORD observed the extent of human wickedness on the earth, and he saw that everything they thought or imagined was consistently and totally evil.

 

[G.T.]

New Living Translation
The LORD observed the extent of human wickedness on the earth, and he saw that everything they thought or imagined was consistently and totally evil.

he sounds like a whiney, insecure little bitch

 

[Likkmee]

New Living Translation
The LORD observed the extent of human wickedness on the earth, and he saw that everything they thought or imagined was consistently and totally evil.

he sounds like a whiney, insecure little bitch

Ask him when you get there.

 

[G.T.]

New Living Translation
The LORD observed the extent of human wickedness on the earth, and he saw that everything they thought or imagined was consistently and totally evil.

he sounds like a whiney, insecure little bitch

Ask him when you get there.

Get where

 

[Cecilie1200]

New Living Translation
The LORD observed the extent of human wickedness on the earth, and he saw that everything they thought or imagined was consistently and totally evil.

he sounds like a whiney, insecure little bitch

He sounds like He knows you far better than your denial lets you know yourself.

Trust me, chump, whatever you think you are, you're actually much worse.

 

[G.T.]

New Living Translation
The LORD observed the extent of human wickedness on the earth, and he saw that everything they thought or imagined was consistently and totally evil.

he sounds like a whiney, insecure little bitch

He sounds like He knows you far better than your denial lets you know yourself.

Trust me, chump, whatever you think you are, you're actually much worse.

Thanks, I appreciate all of it.

 

[Cecilie1200]

New Living Translation
The LORD observed the extent of human wickedness on the earth, and he saw that everything they thought or imagined was consistently and totally evil.

he sounds like a whiney, insecure little bitch

He sounds like He knows you far better than your denial lets you know yourself.

Trust me, chump, whatever you think you are, you're actually much worse.

Thanks, I appreciate all of it.

Simply a fact, dude. Anyone who thinks humans are basically good inside needs to take a long, hard, honest look in the mirror.

 

[G.T.]

New Living Translation
The LORD observed the extent of human wickedness on the earth, and he saw that everything they thought or imagined was consistently and totally evil.

he sounds like a whiney, insecure little bitch

He sounds like He knows you far better than your denial lets you know yourself.

Trust me, chump, whatever you think you are, you're actually much worse.

Thanks, I appreciate all of it.

Simply a fact, dude. Anyone who thinks humans are basically good inside needs to take a long, hard, honest look in the mirror.

Thank you! Praise the mighty Lord of Zachariah in the Showers of Life upon Mary!

 

[Cecilie1200]

New Living Translation
The LORD observed the extent of human wickedness on the earth, and he saw that everything they thought or imagined was consistently and totally evil.

he sounds like a whiney, insecure little bitch

He sounds like He knows you far better than your denial lets you know yourself.

Trust me, chump, whatever you think you are, you're actually much worse.

Thanks, I appreciate all of it.

Simply a fact, dude. Anyone who thinks humans are basically good inside needs to take a long, hard, honest look in the mirror.

Thank you! Praise the mighty Lord of Zachariah in the Showers of Life upon Mary!

Did you skip your meds today?

 

[G.T.]

he sounds like a whiney, insecure little bitch

He sounds like He knows you far better than your denial lets you know yourself.

Trust me, chump, whatever you think you are, you're actually much worse.

Thanks, I appreciate all of it.

Simply a fact, dude. Anyone who thinks humans are basically good inside needs to take a long, hard, honest look in the mirror.

Thank you! Praise the mighty Lord of Zachariah in the Showers of Life upon Mary!

Did you skip your meds today?

Its not that, unfortunately its that I missed Prayer group at seven and Yeshua P. Magdalin will no longer answer my calls.