Ark of the Covenant

[Indeependent]

The Torah was not written by God and handed over to Moshe.
The Torah was dictated by God and written down by Moshe.

Typically, the stenographer doesn't get an author credit. Yet, Torah is also referred to as the five books of Moses.

That's because Moshe wrote what he understood God to be dictating.
Moshe was God's choice, not Moshe's choice as Moshe turned down the task until God forced it down his throat.
The Talmud states that very few people in history (about 4) could have understood the communication of God to be able to write what God "said"

 

[Gracie]

Sure miss that informative button.

 

[Gracie]

Meanwhile...why do some folks type G-d instead of the whole name?

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

Prove they had no written language.

What would be proof, to you? Be specific. There is zero evidence or reason to believe they did. So how would someone prove they didn't, to you?

 

[Indeependent]

Prove they had no written language.

What would be proof, to you? Be specific.

The one who makes the claim has to provide the proof.

 

[fncceo]

The Talmud states that very few people in history (about 4) could have understood the communication of God to be able to write what God "said"

Talmud also seems to indicate that G-d speaks to man through Mattatron.

While there are many teachings in scripture that lead us towards a better, more spiritual life. I wouldn't get too hung up on the esoteric specifics of scripture. It may not actually be infallible.

 

[Indeependent]

The Talmud states that very few people in history (about 4) could have understood the communication of God to be able to write what God "said"

Talmud also seems to indicate that G-d speaks to man through Mattatron.

While there are many teachings in scripture that lead us towards a better, more spiritual life. I wouldn't get too hung up on the esoteric specifics of scripture. It may not actually be infallible.

So true as Mattatron is the global consciousness of human kind.

 

[meaner gene]

That's because Moshe wrote what he understood God to be dictating.
Moshe was God's choice, not Moshe's choice as Moshe turned down the task until God forced it down his throat.
The Talmud states that very few people in history (about 4) could have understood the communication of God to be able to write what God "said"

You realize that there are lots of people who hear voices in their head. But not all of them think it's God talking to them, but some do. And Gods mysterious ways means he doesn't give codewords to let people know it's really him.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

Prove they had no written language.

What would be proof, to you? Be specific.

The one who makes the claim has to provide the proof.

Gotcha!

Give me a rough example of what would "prove" to you that they were illiterate. I will try to provide it in a more specific, factual form.

However, be forewarned: Even if I say, "I can't meet that standard of proof", you still will have made no progress. You have only entered the idea that the chance of them being illiterate is non-zero. That's not evidence or even an argument that they were literate or likely literate. You would have a LOT of work to do on that one. Especially considering there is zero evidence of that available.

Is that all you want? For me to admit there is a non-zero chance they were literate? Okay. Granted, for the sake of moving on. I don't see how that advances any of your dogma in any case.

 

[Indeependent]

That's because Moshe wrote what he understood God to be dictating.
Moshe was God's choice, not Moshe's choice as Moshe turned down the task until God forced it down his throat.
The Talmud states that very few people in history (about 4) could have understood the communication of God to be able to write what God "said"

You realize that there are lots of people who hear voices in their head. But not all of them think it's God talking to them, but some do. And Gods mysterious ways means he doesn't give codewords to let people know it's really him.

Tell me Jews have a 1,000 year history of brutality...I'll wait.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

There are rabbis who believe in the inerrant nature of Torah and those who believe scripture is metaphor. Both opinions are equally valid.

No. One party believes the Torah is the infallible word of God, and one doesn't. Both opinions cannot be equally valid. Both claims cannot be true and both cannot be false. One of them must be true and the other false.

 

[Clyde 154]

Why all religions? The Ark originated with the Judeo/Christian philosophy.......the very source of the topic is directly tied to the nation of Israel......no other religion on earth. Name a better source than the historical record contained in the Holy Scriptures. The bible in its entirety deals with the entire history of the faith, it presents a record of the Good, the Bad and the Ugly.....what other work contains not only the good parts of a nation's history but records all the historical mistakes and sins of that nation?

Simply because a record is found in the Holy Scriptures is no indicator that action meets with God's approval......its simply the entire history, good and bad.

 

[meaner gene]

Prove they had no written language.

What would be proof, to you? Be specific. There is zero evidence or reason to believe they did. So how would someone prove they didn't, to you?

One can assume that oral and written history are mostly mutually exclusive. That a culture that puts their language down in writing, gives up much of their need for history to be passed down orally. And what oral history existed, would make note of where those writings were kept.

 

[Indeependent]

The Jewish scholars and rabbis announced that Exodus was a myth over 20 years ago now.

Jews don't have a hierarchical authority when it comes to scriptural matters. Anyone making an "announcement" is giving an opinion with not ecumenical authority.

There are rabbis who believe in the inerrant nature of Torah and those who believe scripture is metaphor. Both opinions are equally valid.

those who believe scripture is metaphor

Reform rabbis are so phony even I can make them look stupid.

 

[Indeependent]

Prove they had no written language.

What would be proof, to you? Be specific. There is zero evidence or reason to believe they did. So how would someone prove they didn't, to you?

One can assume that oral and written history are mostly mutually exclusive. That a culture that puts their language down in writing, gives up much of their need for history to be passed down orally. And what oral history existed, would make note of where those writings were kept.

I'll tell you why the Torah is real...
Moshe, in Deuteronomy, goes to great lengths to tell his flock that their success will go to their heads and they will be exiled and get their asses kicked until they learn their lesson.
In fact, if the 2 Temples were not destroyed and the Jews weren't sent into exile, we would know the Torah is a lie.
Every other religion has every member shitting gold.

 

[meaner gene]

The one who makes the claim has to provide the proof.

Actually the one whose claim can be proven has to provide the proof.
Such as if someone claims there is no Loch Ness monster, can't be expected to prove non-existence.

It's like the case of voter fraud. The proof there was none, was that they could not find examples of it, just like not finding pictures of the Loch Ness monster. The burden falls on the other side to prove voter fraud.

 

[fncceo]

There are rabbis who believe in the inerrant nature of Torah and those who believe scripture is metaphor. Both opinions are equally valid.

No. Correctly said, one party believes the torah is the infallible word of god, and one doesn't. Both opinions cannot be equally valid. Both claims cannot be true.

The ultimate truth isn't the point. A devout Buddhist and a devout Muslim might have very different truths, but each uses their truth as a spiritual path to how they live their lives. As a guide to how to live a more spiritual life, the Buddhist's truth and the Muslim's truth are equally valid.

Because we cannot know for sure, and we use the information only as a guide to how we live our lives, each viewpoint is equally valid

 

[Indeependent]

The one who makes the claim has to provide the proof.

Actually the one whose claim can be proven has to provide the proof.
Such as if someone claims there is no Loch Ness monster, can't be expected to prove non-existence.

It's like the case of voter fraud. The proof there was none, was that they could not find examples of it, just like not finding pictures of the Loch Ness monster. The burden falls on the other side to prove voter fraud.

That is one of your dumbest posts ever, and that's really pushing it.
Tell me why you think Avraham, Yitzchak, Yaakov and all of their family didn't have their own language.

 

[BreezeWood]

.....the nation of Israel would come to a point in its history that it would no longer require the need for the Ark to remind the people of their covenant with God.

.
the same is true of your scriptures had you not abandoned the prescribed spoken religion of antiquity. their long lost chance for remission.

 

[Indeependent]

There are rabbis who believe in the inerrant nature of Torah and those who believe scripture is metaphor. Both opinions are equally valid.

No. Correctly said, one party believes the torah is the infallible word of god, and one doesn't. Both opinions cannot be equally valid. Both claims cannot be true.

The ultimate truth isn't the point. A devout Buddhist and a devout Muslim might have very different truths, but each uses their truth as a spiritual path to how they live their lives. The Buddhist's truth and the Muslim's truth are equally valid.

Because we cannot know for sure, and we use the information only as a guide to how we live our lives, each viewpoint is equally valid

The Buddhist's truth and the Muslim's truth are equally valid.

The result may be equally valid, but not the text upon which it's based.