Ask the Evangelical!

[Nienna]

what about the people 2000 bc? how did they hear about it?

Hi Manu! See post #169.

 

[freeandfun1]

I think they may have combined some sayings. I have found where the Bible has verses that contain, "so it is written" and "so shall it be done" but not together. I cannot find (as of yet anyway) anything that says, "so it is written, so shall it be done".

 

[Said1]

I think they may have combined some sayings. I have found where the Bible has verses that contain, "so it is written" and "so shall it be done" but not together. I cannot find (as of yet anyway) anything that says, "so it is written, so shall it be done".

Same here, never found it in it's entirety, but I know I've heard it said like that. Probably off the show - infact, I'll go google it right now.

 

[5stringJeff]

Said, I think the quote you're looking for is "So let it be written, so let it be done." No clue as to its origins though.

 

[5stringJeff]

Yup that's the quote ! I guess I'm trying to think a little further out of the box as I am prone to do and having a hard time understanding
1--Why Jesus needed to convey this info to God
2--Why he was asking for mercy for people who didn't know what they were doing wrong.
3--If Jesus asked for God to be merciful to these "ignorants" would he also intervene on behalf of other "ignorants"?

the primary curiostiy that was instilled by hearing this passage again was the fact he pleaded for mercy " for (because) they know not what they do ".

Wow... this thread took off!

Dillo, here's my answer to your questions:

1. Jesus could have very easily have thought the request (since God knows our thoughts). But by saying that out loud, He was expressing His forgiving nature to all in earshot - and eventually to those of us who read the Bible.

2. The fact that they didn't know that they were sinning doesn't make it any less of a sin. It's the same concept as we use in law today: ignorance is not an alibi.

3. mom and said have posted some relevant verses (from Romans 1-2) on this. But again, Jesus wasn't asking God to forgive them for being ignorant, he was asking God to forgive them for murdering Him.

 

[Said1]

Said, I think the quote you're looking for is "So let it be written, so let it be done." No clue as to its origins though.

You're probably right, and the origins are probably from what free posted. I had a point, but it got lost somewhere this morning.

 

[Joz]

Ok, who wrote/said "so it is written,so it will be" ? It's driving me crazy, and the only thing I can think of is the program "it is written". Anyone?

Yes there is the program 'It is Written'

This quote is from the movie,'The Ten Commandments'. Both pharohs said several times, "So it is written, so let it be done".
So far I haven't found anything in the Bible to back up these exact words.

 

[Joz]

Yes, I know for sure, because eventually, He DID fulfill all the prophecies.

I understand what you are saying.
My point is, you don't know. You were not there. You only have the Bible to go on that tells you did happened. You have to accept the Messiah by faith the same as it's always been.

 

[Joz]

....... But again, Jesus wasn't asking God to forgive them for being ignorant, he was asking God to forgive them for murdering Him.

This is ultimate act of love. As these soldiers were hammering spikes into His hands, Jesus asks God to show mercy to them. Jesus can only plead our case to the Father if we ask for forgiveness. Unless we confess, forgiveness cannot take place.

 

[Bonnie]

This is ultimate act of love. As these soldiers were hammering spikes into His hands, Jesus asks God to show mercy to them. Jesus can only plead our case to the Father if we ask for forgiveness. Unless we confess, forgiveness cannot take place.

Which brings us back to the point of Christ being the ultimate example of how we are supposed to try and live our lives. We always fall short but we keep trying.

 

[dilloduck]

Romans 1 might help.

18The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of men who suppress the truth by their wickedness, 19since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. 20For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities–his eternal power and divine nature–have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse.

If they haven't heard about Jesus, they are still responsible for knowledge of and faithfulness to the One True God.

Romans 2
12All who sin apart from the law will also perish apart from the law, and all who sin under the law will be judged by the law. 13For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God's sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous. 14(Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law, 15since they show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts now accusing, now even defending them.) 16This will take place on the day when God will judge men's secrets through Jesus Christ, as my gospel declares.

The Law is the ancient scriptures, basically the Old Testament, esp. the first 5 books. You see, even if people have not heard the words of God, He has given them the tool to know right from wrong, to follow His way. Every person has a conscience. This is how God makes allowance for those who have not heard the message or were born before Christ. They will be judged according to how they followed their God-given conscience (not their rationalizations or feel-good philosophies).

Crucial point------

They will be judged according to how they followed their God-given conscience (not their rationalizations or feel-good philosophies).

I understand the dangers being addressed here howerer if people were judged by this prior to Jesus are they not also judged in this fashion after Jesus?

 

[Nienna]

Crucial point------

I understand the dangers being addressed here howerer if people were judged by this prior to Jesus are they not also judged in this fashion after Jesus?

Yes, if they haven't heard of Jesus. If they hear the good news and reject it, they will be condemned.

 

[dilloduck]

Yes, if they haven't heard of Jesus. If they hear the good news and reject it, they will be condemned.

I sure hope that the first person that explains Christianity to the newcomers gets it right---there's a heck of a lot of responsibilty involved. The newcomers' destiny is determined by the accuracy of the first messanger.

 

[manu1959]

You know as well as I do that you have asked this question before. Perhaps not in *this* thread, but in others. Do you want to start a thread dedicated to just that question? If so, maybe that would be more appropriate.

i have never asked it....

 

[manu1959]

Hi Manu! See post #169.

mom..thanks read it ...still confused as it refers to god not jesus...but i will drop it ....as asking questions seems to piss everyone off

 

[Nienna]

I sure hope that the first person that explains Christianity to the newcomers gets it right---there's a heck of a lot of responsibilty involved. The newcomers' destiny is determined by the accuracy of the first messanger.

Many have initailly rejected the message. If they are truly seeking God, they will find Him. It's a promise! :

 

[Nienna]

mom..thanks read it ...still confused as it refers to god not jesus...but i will drop it ....as asking questions seems to piss everyone off

Please don't feel this way, Manu. Asking questions is great!

Jesus=God. This is possibly the hardest thing about the faith to understand. We, as humans are bound by the laws of physics and our bodies (at least for now! ). God/Jesus/Holy Spirit, three in one, is not bound by these things; He created them!

I went through a period of questioning, too. Where did Jesus say that he was God? Then I found this...

22At that time the Feast of the Dedication took place at Jerusalem;
23it was winter, and Jesus was walking in the temple in the portico of (AE)Solomon.

24(AF)The Jews then gathered around Him, and were saying to Him, "How long will You keep us in suspense? If You are the Christ, tell us (AG)plainly."

25Jesus answered them, "(AH)I told you, and you do not believe; (AI)the works that I do in My Father's name, these testify of Me.

26"But you do not believe because (AJ)you are not of My sheep.

27"My sheep (AK)hear My voice, and (AL)I know them, and they follow Me;

28and I give (AM)eternal life to them, and they will never perish; and (AN)no one will snatch them out of My hand.

29"[a]My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand.

30"(AO)I and the Father are one."

31The Jews (AP)picked up stones again to stone Him.

32Jesus answered them, "I showed you many good works from the Father; for which of them are you stoning Me?"

33The Jews answered Him, "For a good work we do not stone You, but for (AQ)blasphemy; and because You, being a man, (AR)make Yourself out to be God."

34Jesus answered them, "Has it not been written in (AS)your (AT)Law, '(AU)I SAID, YOU ARE GODS'?

35"If he called them gods, to whom the word of God came (and the Scripture cannot be broken),

36do you say of Him, whom the Father (AV)sanctified and (AW)sent into the world, 'You are blaspheming,' because I said, '(AX)I am the Son of God'?

37"(AY)If I do not do the works of My Father, do not believe Me;

38but if I do them, though you do not believe Me, believe (AZ)the works, so that you may know and understand that (BA)the Father is in Me, and I in the Father."

39Therefore (BB)they were seeking again to seize Him, and (BC)He eluded their grasp.

40And He went away (BD)again beyond the Jordan to the place where John was first baptizing, and He was staying there.

41Many came to Him and were saying, "While John performed no (BE)sign, yet (BF)everything John said about this man was true."

42(BG)Many believed in Him there. John 10

 

[dilloduck]

Many have initailly rejected the message. If they are truly seeking God, they will fing Him. It's a promise! :

So when is one to abandon his God given conscience to play hide and seek ?

 

[Joz]

So when is one to abandon his God given conscience to play hide and seek ?

Sorry, but I don't understand the question.

 

[dilloduck]

Sorry, but I don't understand the question.

Keep meditating on it---it'll come to ya if you try hard enough. :funnyface