Atheism is the believe that something came out of nothing and we're all going nowhere

[Skull Pilot]

wait a minute

Not to have a preference of an outcome?

You certainly have a preference. You believe and obey not because you love to believe and obey but because you want the rewards promised if you do believe and obey

The entire christian notion of the afterlife is based on fear and greed the two most powerful of human motivators

I believe the man that lives a good life with the only reward being his own knowledge that he lived a good life and expects nothing else for his good works is a better man than one who expects an eternal reward for doing what he is told

Anyone who is focusing on the destination instead of the journey didn't understand what Christ was teaching. God wants you to love Him for who He is and not what He can do for you. The message of Jesus was focused on this life, not the next.

When we speak of preferences we need to be specific about what we are talking about. For instance, do I have a preference for who will win the game. If I prefer one team over the other I will be more likely to see questionable calls a certain way. We call this subjectivity. We can only be objective when we don't have a preference for an outcome. Dying to self is how we become objective.

So, do I still have preferences? Sure, but I work on not having preferences and I have made great strides from where I began. Am I happier for it? Yes. Great peace is achieved when we can be honest about ourselves and the world around us. Things are what they are, not what we want them to be. Am I more intelligent for it? Absolutely. Being objective is the foundation of logic and reason. Anyone who is objective cannot help but to have his intelligence sharpened.

I agree that a man who lives the good life (i.e. doing the right thing the right way for the right reason) is on a good path. Doing it for God makes it better.

then tell me why all the talk of heaven, paradise and eternal rewards or the lake of fire the second death the weeping and gnashing of teeth etc.

if god really just wanted people to accept and love him for who he is there would be no need to punish those who don't

you claim to be objective but when you are biased into believing god is responsible all that exists you are not objective

You make it sound like every page in the Bible is about heaven and hell. Very little of it is. Essentially it is a how to book; how to live and how not to live.

no I said why mention it at all if the purpose of the bible is to convince people to love and accept god for who or what he is? Why set up punishment and reward?

If god only wanted people to accept him then he could simply ignore all those who don't rather than threatening them with eternal damnation

That isn't what you said at all. You wrote, "then tell me why all the talk of heaven." Other than heaven is being with God and hell is being separated from God I have no idea what heaven and hell is. You don't believe in any of it so why does it even matter to you?

There is a lot of talk of eternal reward in the bible isn't there?



and please tell me where heaven is defined as simply being with god and hell simply not being with god in the bible? or is that your interpretation?

It is obvious to anyone who has read the bible that it is a carrot and stick approach

be a good believer and get a reward, be bad and don't believe and get punished

 

[ding]

You make it sound like every page in the Bible is about heaven and hell. Very little of it is. Essentially it is a how to book; how to live and how not to live.

Based on the social norms of a 1500 year old draconian society.

Or the timeless wisdom of universal truths. Tell me, when you read Genesis, did you get that man knows wrong from right and when he violates it, rather than abandoning the concept, he rationalizes that he didn't violate it? I doubt you did, but it most certainly is in there. I don't doubt though that you do recognize the veracity of it though, right? Surely you see this phenomenon on a daily basis, right? My point is is if you missed that you have to wonder what else you missed.

 

[ding]

You make it sound like every page in the Bible is about heaven and hell. Very little of it is. Essentially it is a how to book; how to live and how not to live.

Based on the social norms of a 1500 year old draconian society.

Yes, though the Bible should be read with the social norms of that day to truly understand it and place it in its proper context.

 

[Skull Pilot]

You make it sound like every page in the Bible is about heaven and hell. Very little of it is. Essentially it is a how to book; how to live and how not to live.

Based on the social norms of a 1500 year old draconian society.

Yes, though the Bible should be read with the social norms of that day to truly understand it and place it in its proper context.

yeah otherwise it's tough to get around the slavery and selling your daughters bit

 

[ding]

Anyone who is focusing on the destination instead of the journey didn't understand what Christ was teaching. God wants you to love Him for who He is and not what He can do for you. The message of Jesus was focused on this life, not the next.

When we speak of preferences we need to be specific about what we are talking about. For instance, do I have a preference for who will win the game. If I prefer one team over the other I will be more likely to see questionable calls a certain way. We call this subjectivity. We can only be objective when we don't have a preference for an outcome. Dying to self is how we become objective.

So, do I still have preferences? Sure, but I work on not having preferences and I have made great strides from where I began. Am I happier for it? Yes. Great peace is achieved when we can be honest about ourselves and the world around us. Things are what they are, not what we want them to be. Am I more intelligent for it? Absolutely. Being objective is the foundation of logic and reason. Anyone who is objective cannot help but to have his intelligence sharpened.

I agree that a man who lives the good life (i.e. doing the right thing the right way for the right reason) is on a good path. Doing it for God makes it better.

then tell me why all the talk of heaven, paradise and eternal rewards or the lake of fire the second death the weeping and gnashing of teeth etc.

if god really just wanted people to accept and love him for who he is there would be no need to punish those who don't

you claim to be objective but when you are biased into believing god is responsible all that exists you are not objective

You make it sound like every page in the Bible is about heaven and hell. Very little of it is. Essentially it is a how to book; how to live and how not to live.

no I said why mention it at all if the purpose of the bible is to convince people to love and accept god for who or what he is? Why set up punishment and reward?

If god only wanted people to accept him then he could simply ignore all those who don't rather than threatening them with eternal damnation

That isn't what you said at all. You wrote, "then tell me why all the talk of heaven." Other than heaven is being with God and hell is being separated from God I have no idea what heaven and hell is. You don't believe in any of it so why does it even matter to you?

There is a lot of talk of eternal reward in the bible isn't there?



and please tell me where heaven is defined as simply being with god and hell simply not being with god in the bible? or is that your interpretation?

It is obvious to anyone who has read the bible that it is a carrot and stick approach

be a good believer and get a reward, be bad and don't believe and get punished

I don't know, that seems like a subjective statement. Why don't you catalog them and then we can decide if it is a lot, fair enough?

Isn't life a carrot and stick approach? Do you believe that all behaviors lead to equal outcomes? If not, then you probably believe that as a rule successful behaviors lead to successful outcomes and failed behaviors lead to failed outcomes, right? How is that not a carrot and a stick approach?

 

[ding]

You make it sound like every page in the Bible is about heaven and hell. Very little of it is. Essentially it is a how to book; how to live and how not to live.

Based on the social norms of a 1500 year old draconian society.

Yes, though the Bible should be read with the social norms of that day to truly understand it and place it in its proper context.

yeah otherwise it's tough to get around the slavery and selling your daughters bit

Only because you are viewing it from today's lens and not the lens of 3000 years ago.

 

[Skull Pilot]

then tell me why all the talk of heaven, paradise and eternal rewards or the lake of fire the second death the weeping and gnashing of teeth etc.

if god really just wanted people to accept and love him for who he is there would be no need to punish those who don't

you claim to be objective but when you are biased into believing god is responsible all that exists you are not objective

You make it sound like every page in the Bible is about heaven and hell. Very little of it is. Essentially it is a how to book; how to live and how not to live.

no I said why mention it at all if the purpose of the bible is to convince people to love and accept god for who or what he is? Why set up punishment and reward?

If god only wanted people to accept him then he could simply ignore all those who don't rather than threatening them with eternal damnation

That isn't what you said at all. You wrote, "then tell me why all the talk of heaven." Other than heaven is being with God and hell is being separated from God I have no idea what heaven and hell is. You don't believe in any of it so why does it even matter to you?

There is a lot of talk of eternal reward in the bible isn't there?



and please tell me where heaven is defined as simply being with god and hell simply not being with god in the bible? or is that your interpretation?

It is obvious to anyone who has read the bible that it is a carrot and stick approach

be a good believer and get a reward, be bad and don't believe and get punished

I don't know, that seems like a subjective statement. Why don't you catalog them and then we can decide if it is a lot, fair enough?

Isn't life a carrot and stick approach? Do you believe that all behaviors lead to equal outcomes? If not, then you probably believe that as a rule successful behaviors lead to successful outcomes and failed behaviors lead to failed outcomes, right? How is that not a carrot and a stick approach?

see now you change the tack

when I said the bible was based on far and greed you disagreed with me and now you say the bible is based on carrot and stick which is a fear and greed approach

so tell me why does god have to punish those who do not believe when if it is true as you think that god gave man free will?

why would god give free will and then tell people they will be punished if they don't do what he says after all according to you he just wants people to accept him for what he is.

if what god had to offer was so great (or even real at all) there would be no need for the threat of eternal damnation

 

[Skull Pilot]

You make it sound like every page in the Bible is about heaven and hell. Very little of it is. Essentially it is a how to book; how to live and how not to live.

Based on the social norms of a 1500 year old draconian society.

Yes, though the Bible should be read with the social norms of that day to truly understand it and place it in its proper context.

yeah otherwise it's tough to get around the slavery and selling your daughters bit

Only because you are viewing it from today's lens and not the lens of 3000 years ago.

like I said you have to devolve into a slave trader in order to get around those parts.

 

[ding]

You make it sound like every page in the Bible is about heaven and hell. Very little of it is. Essentially it is a how to book; how to live and how not to live.

no I said why mention it at all if the purpose of the bible is to convince people to love and accept god for who or what he is? Why set up punishment and reward?

If god only wanted people to accept him then he could simply ignore all those who don't rather than threatening them with eternal damnation

That isn't what you said at all. You wrote, "then tell me why all the talk of heaven." Other than heaven is being with God and hell is being separated from God I have no idea what heaven and hell is. You don't believe in any of it so why does it even matter to you?

There is a lot of talk of eternal reward in the bible isn't there?



and please tell me where heaven is defined as simply being with god and hell simply not being with god in the bible? or is that your interpretation?

It is obvious to anyone who has read the bible that it is a carrot and stick approach

be a good believer and get a reward, be bad and don't believe and get punished

I don't know, that seems like a subjective statement. Why don't you catalog them and then we can decide if it is a lot, fair enough?

Isn't life a carrot and stick approach? Do you believe that all behaviors lead to equal outcomes? If not, then you probably believe that as a rule successful behaviors lead to successful outcomes and failed behaviors lead to failed outcomes, right? How is that not a carrot and a stick approach?

see now you change the tack

when I said the bible was based on far and greed you disagreed with me and now you say the bible is based on carrot and stick which is a fear and greed approach

so tell me why does god have to punish those who do not believe when if it is true as you think that god gave man free will?

why would god give free will and then tell people they will be punished if they don't do what he says after all according to you he just wants people to accept him for what he is.

if what god had to offer was so great (or even real at all) there would be no need for the threat of eternal damnation

Actually I didn't change tack, I addressed your statement. I didn't say anything about heaven or hell. In this world, life is a carrot and a stick approach, right? I told you that the Bible is a how to book, right? How to live and how not to live, right? I didn't say anything about heaven or hell at all.

First of all you don't believe in God so you don't believe God is punishing you for your failed behaviors. I do believe in God and I don't believe He is punishing you for your failed behaviors either. What I will tell you is that there are moral laws just like there are physical laws and when you violate them, you end up punishing yourself. Nothing magical about it. Successful behaviors naturally lead to success just as failed behaviors naturally lead to failure.

Why would He give you free will? Free will is an artifact of being human. We are the only animal who has knowledge of good and evil. A dog doesn't know the difference. Do you believe it is virtuous to be forced to be virtuous? I don't. Virtue has no meaning or value unless it is chosen freely.

You sure are hung up on God punishing and rewarding people. I don't spend much time thinking about it at all. I'm too busy trying to figure out what it was I was supposed to have learned from my mistakes.

 

[ding]

You make it sound like every page in the Bible is about heaven and hell. Very little of it is. Essentially it is a how to book; how to live and how not to live.

Based on the social norms of a 1500 year old draconian society.

Yes, though the Bible should be read with the social norms of that day to truly understand it and place it in its proper context.

yeah otherwise it's tough to get around the slavery and selling your daughters bit

Only because you are viewing it from today's lens and not the lens of 3000 years ago.

like I said you have to devolve into a slave trader in order to get around those parts.

Yes, I know you did. You are viewing from today's perspective rather than the perspective of 3000 years ago. Of course it doesn't make sense to you.

 

[Vandalshandle]

I have always been thoroughly amused by Christians who are utterly clueless as to how an atheist could POSSIBLY not believe in god, the hereafter, etc., etc.

The simple truth is that atheists know that man is an animal, only a few strands of DNA different than a chimp. Christians acknowledge that chimps were not created in god's image, and have no place in heaven, but can not seem to grasp that atheists merely consider evolved man as not much more that a sophisticated chimp, with no special place in the cosmos.

Oh well...

 

[edthecynic]

Tell me, when you read Genesis, did you get that man knows wrong from right and when he violates it, rather than abandoning the concept, he rationalizes that he didn't violate it?

Wasn't Adam instructed NOT to eat the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil!!!
Adam had to "sin" to learn right from wrong!

 

[ding]

Tell me, when you read Genesis, did you get that man knows wrong from right and when he violates it, rather than abandoning the concept, he rationalizes that he didn't violate it?

Wasn't Adam instructed NOT to eat the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil!!!
Adam had to "sin" to learn right from wrong!

Do you know what allegorical means, Einstein?

 

[Skull Pilot]

no I said why mention it at all if the purpose of the bible is to convince people to love and accept god for who or what he is? Why set up punishment and reward?

If god only wanted people to accept him then he could simply ignore all those who don't rather than threatening them with eternal damnation

That isn't what you said at all. You wrote, "then tell me why all the talk of heaven." Other than heaven is being with God and hell is being separated from God I have no idea what heaven and hell is. You don't believe in any of it so why does it even matter to you?

There is a lot of talk of eternal reward in the bible isn't there?



and please tell me where heaven is defined as simply being with god and hell simply not being with god in the bible? or is that your interpretation?

It is obvious to anyone who has read the bible that it is a carrot and stick approach

be a good believer and get a reward, be bad and don't believe and get punished

I don't know, that seems like a subjective statement. Why don't you catalog them and then we can decide if it is a lot, fair enough?

Isn't life a carrot and stick approach? Do you believe that all behaviors lead to equal outcomes? If not, then you probably believe that as a rule successful behaviors lead to successful outcomes and failed behaviors lead to failed outcomes, right? How is that not a carrot and a stick approach?

see now you change the tack

when I said the bible was based on far and greed you disagreed with me and now you say the bible is based on carrot and stick which is a fear and greed approach

so tell me why does god have to punish those who do not believe when if it is true as you think that god gave man free will?

why would god give free will and then tell people they will be punished if they don't do what he says after all according to you he just wants people to accept him for what he is.

if what god had to offer was so great (or even real at all) there would be no need for the threat of eternal damnation

Actually I didn't change tack, I addressed your statement. I didn't say anything about heaven or hell. In this world, life is a carrot and a stick approach, right? I told you that the Bible is a how to book, right? How to live and how not to live, right? I didn't say anything about heaven or hell at all.

First of all you don't believe in God so you don't believe God is punishing you for your failed behaviors. I do believe in God and I don't believe He is punishing you for your failed behaviors either. What I will tell you is that there are moral laws just like there are physical laws and when you violate them, you end up punishing yourself. Nothing magical about it. Successful behaviors naturally lead to success just as failed behaviors naturally lead to failure.

Why would He give you free will? Free will is an artifact of being human. We are the only animal who has knowledge of good and evil. A dog doesn't know the difference. Do you believe it is virtuous to be forced to be virtuous? I don't. Virtue has no meaning or value unless it is chosen freely.

You sure are hung up on God punishing and rewarding people. I don't spend much time thinking about it at all. I'm too busy trying to figure out what it was I was supposed to have learned from my mistakes.

I was never given any satisfactory answers about god and guess what you aren't giving any either.

you don't care that your god capriciously slaughtered people for disobeying him if you believe the bible is actually true.

I have never seen people hold such diametrically opposed views as the religious and you are no different.

 

[Skull Pilot]

Based on the social norms of a 1500 year old draconian society.

Yes, though the Bible should be read with the social norms of that day to truly understand it and place it in its proper context.

yeah otherwise it's tough to get around the slavery and selling your daughters bit

Only because you are viewing it from today's lens and not the lens of 3000 years ago.

like I said you have to devolve into a slave trader in order to get around those parts.

Yes, I know you did. You are viewing from today's perspective rather than the perspective of 3000 years ago. Of course it doesn't make sense to you.

it wouldn't make sense to a moral god especially if he was supposed to be a timeless supreme being

 

[MaryL]

And there's no point, really, to any of it, so life has no meaning or purpose.

No it isn't. Most of us are not mass murdering nihilists bent on raping children and whatever weird extremist perverted paranoia theists dream up. Nether are we crashing airplanes into Manhattan, strapping on suicide vests, condemning theists to death, or any of that nonsense. That's all on religion, there.

 

[blenkins90]

And there's no point, really, to any of it, so life has no meaning or purpose.

It doesn't if you don't want it to. You can find purpose in the everyday if you choose so. And you can do it with or without religion (the struggle is still the same).

 

[ding]

That isn't what you said at all. You wrote, "then tell me why all the talk of heaven." Other than heaven is being with God and hell is being separated from God I have no idea what heaven and hell is. You don't believe in any of it so why does it even matter to you?

There is a lot of talk of eternal reward in the bible isn't there?



and please tell me where heaven is defined as simply being with god and hell simply not being with god in the bible? or is that your interpretation?

It is obvious to anyone who has read the bible that it is a carrot and stick approach

be a good believer and get a reward, be bad and don't believe and get punished

I don't know, that seems like a subjective statement. Why don't you catalog them and then we can decide if it is a lot, fair enough?

Isn't life a carrot and stick approach? Do you believe that all behaviors lead to equal outcomes? If not, then you probably believe that as a rule successful behaviors lead to successful outcomes and failed behaviors lead to failed outcomes, right? How is that not a carrot and a stick approach?

see now you change the tack

when I said the bible was based on far and greed you disagreed with me and now you say the bible is based on carrot and stick which is a fear and greed approach

so tell me why does god have to punish those who do not believe when if it is true as you think that god gave man free will?

why would god give free will and then tell people they will be punished if they don't do what he says after all according to you he just wants people to accept him for what he is.

if what god had to offer was so great (or even real at all) there would be no need for the threat of eternal damnation

Actually I didn't change tack, I addressed your statement. I didn't say anything about heaven or hell. In this world, life is a carrot and a stick approach, right? I told you that the Bible is a how to book, right? How to live and how not to live, right? I didn't say anything about heaven or hell at all.

First of all you don't believe in God so you don't believe God is punishing you for your failed behaviors. I do believe in God and I don't believe He is punishing you for your failed behaviors either. What I will tell you is that there are moral laws just like there are physical laws and when you violate them, you end up punishing yourself. Nothing magical about it. Successful behaviors naturally lead to success just as failed behaviors naturally lead to failure.

Why would He give you free will? Free will is an artifact of being human. We are the only animal who has knowledge of good and evil. A dog doesn't know the difference. Do you believe it is virtuous to be forced to be virtuous? I don't. Virtue has no meaning or value unless it is chosen freely.

You sure are hung up on God punishing and rewarding people. I don't spend much time thinking about it at all. I'm too busy trying to figure out what it was I was supposed to have learned from my mistakes.

I was never given any satisfactory answers about god and guess what you aren't giving any either.

you don't care that your god capriciously slaughtered people for disobeying him if you believe the bible is actually true.

I have never seen people hold such diametrically opposed views as the religious and you are no different.

I didn't know it was my job. I didn't need anyone to do my work for me. You shouldn't either.

You don't believe in God so you don't believe He slaughtered anyone, now do you? So you are making an argument you don't believe.

I can live with that. I have never seen so many people talking about something they don't believe.

 

[ding]

Yes, though the Bible should be read with the social norms of that day to truly understand it and place it in its proper context.

yeah otherwise it's tough to get around the slavery and selling your daughters bit

Only because you are viewing it from today's lens and not the lens of 3000 years ago.

like I said you have to devolve into a slave trader in order to get around those parts.

Yes, I know you did. You are viewing from today's perspective rather than the perspective of 3000 years ago. Of course it doesn't make sense to you.

it wouldn't make sense to a moral god especially if he was supposed to be a timeless supreme being

Why does it matter? You don't believe in God anyway. Don't you have better things to do than to discuss what you believe is a fairy tale? Do you want to discuss the three bears with me too?

 

[edthecynic]

Tell me, when you read Genesis, did you get that man knows wrong from right and when he violates it, rather than abandoning the concept, he rationalizes that he didn't violate it?

Wasn't Adam instructed NOT to eat the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil!!!
Adam had to "sin" to learn right from wrong!

Do you know what allegorical means, Einstein?

It means it is a sin to learn right from wrong.