Ayn Rand Kids

You said;
"There is a great difference between user fee taxes (i.e. the gasoline tax) and plain old confiscation like the income tax. Of course, property taxes, which primarily fund local police power, are another animal altogether."

O.K. I think we both agree it takes a lot of money to run a city/state/country. I guess we could argue about how many bells and whistles those entities really need and how the money was to be raised. For example I guess you realize how many expensive bells and whistles it takes to maintain a technologically advanced Armed Forces on a large enough scale to dominate an entire planet and outer space as well. You're not even going to get close to that without a hefty income tax. Or do you have an alternative?

You said;
"BTW, you do realize that most of the fire departments in America are staffed by volunteers, don't you?"

Isn't that fantastic. Really. Without first responders we would be truly fucked. We all salute them. A special thanks to the Volunteers.
Of course, unless you want them responding with buckets of water, it's still an amazingly expensive proposition to maintain a modern first class fire department. (they don't buy their own fire engines.)
 
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Life must be great for the Progressives, while we're all worried about the NSA, the NDAA and Gun control, their worst problem is a woman named Ayn Rand who has no impact upon the institutions of American culture.

What drugs are they using?

Aldous Huxley referred to it as "soma"... :)
 
The right-wing is worried about the NSA? Really? Where was the Tea Party when Bush signed the USAPATRIOT Act in 2001? There wasn't a Tea Party screaming about big government then, was there?

Why didn't any right-wing voters complain about the PATRIOT Act? Not only did right-wing Conservatives NOT complain about Bush's big government overreach, right-wing Republican Conservatives actually defended it and called anyone a traitor who spoke out against it.

If you people read either 1984 or Brave New World and you think that they were about leftist Marxist Sharia liberal governments, then you completely missed the point of those stories. The authors were writing about RIGHT-WING TOTALITARIANISM. The stories didn't take place in left-wing liberal Socialist societies. They were right-wing fascist dictatorships, with fully merged corporate and state power. The free people were the liberal traitor terrorists who questioned the status quo.

Why is the right always wrong?
 
Where was the Tea Party when Bush signed the USAPATRIOT Act in 2001? There wasn't a Tea Party screaming about big government then, was there?

The Tea Party didn't even exist then. And Libertarians, like Ron Paul, Rand Paul, Ted Cruz, and many others, including those who you really don't like, such as Alex Jones, have been against the Patriot act from the start. Would you like to see videos of them making speeches on it pre-2008?
 
Life must be great for the Progressives, while we're all worried about the NSA, the NDAA and Gun control, their worst problem is a woman named Ayn Rand who has no impact upon the institutions of American culture.

What drugs are they using?

Aldous Huxley referred to it as "soma"... :)



Great catch, thank you.

I read many books throughout my life. Enjoyed many NOVELS and authors (like Ayn Rand). Never once did I regard L. Frank Baum as a mentor, either.

Label away , non "Randyans". Whatever gets you through your day. Blessed be.
 
I found a copy of ATlas Shrugged when I was 14.

I bought it because it was thick and I wanted to get my money's worth.

I really like it, BTW.

I actually bought into this woman's POV for a few years until I started working.

That's when her philosophy of GREED IS GOOD started to unravel for me.
 
I found a copy of ATlas Shrugged when I was 14.

I bought it because it was thick and I wanted to get my money's worth.

I really like it, BTW.

I actually bought into this woman's POV for a few years until I started working.

That's when her philosophy of GREED IS GOOD started to unravel for me.

That's about when I read it - with similar results. I think the one thing I really took away was the spirit of looking beyond the 'accepted wisdom' when it came to politics (ironically she turned her own 'accepted wisdom' in a very dogmatic direction). Shorty thereafter I read some Heinlein (Stranger in a Strange Land, Time Enough for Love, Moon is a Harsh Mistress) which opened up my point of view considerably.

As I grew up I found meatier stuff from which to draw, but I can't deny the formative influences...
 
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Just out of curiosity, and this is a very real question, where in the heck did all you Ayn Rand kids come from? How did you bump into her? What did she write that so resonates with you?


"Thirty years after her death in March 1982, Ayn Rand’s ideas have never been more important. Unfettered capitalism, unregulated business, bare-bones government providing no social services, glorification of selfishness, disdain for Judeo-Christian morality—these are the tenets of Rand’s harsh philosophy.

In Ayn Rand Nation, Gary Weiss explores the people and institutions that remain under the spell of the Russian-born novelist. He provides new insights into Rand’s inner circle in the last years of her life, with revelations of never-before-publicized predictions by Rand that still resonate today. Weiss charts Rand’s infiltration of the Tea Party and Libertarian movements, and provides an inside look at the radical belief system that has exerted a powerful influence on the Republican Party and its presidential candidates. It’s a fascinating cast of characters that ranges from Glenn Beck to Oliver Stone, and includes Rand’s most influential disciple, Alan Greenspan. Weiss describes in penetrating detail how Greenspan became a stalking horse for Rand—slashing and burning regulations with ideological zeal, and then seeking to conceal her influence on his life and thinking. Lastly, Weiss provides a strategy for a renewed national dialogue, an embrace of the nation’s core values that is needed to deal with Rand’s pervasive grip on society.

From The Fountainhead and Atlas Shrugged to Rand’s lesser-known and misunderstood nonfiction books, Gary Weiss examines the impact of Rand's thinking across our society."

Ayn Rand Nation: The Hidden Struggle for America's Soul: Gary Weiss: Amazon.com: Books

I'm not so much a child of Ayn Rand... more a child of Robert Heinlein...

but it all comes from the same place...

the urge to do whatever the fuck you wanna do... just so long as you don't directly fuck up anyone else's life...

I challenge anyone in here to tell me the fault in this way of thinking...

Ayup.
 
Just out of curiosity, and this is a very real question, where in the heck did all you Ayn Rand kids come from? How did you bump into her? What did she write that so resonates with you?


"Thirty years after her death in March 1982, Ayn Rand’s ideas have never been more important. Unfettered capitalism, unregulated business, bare-bones government providing no social services, glorification of selfishness, disdain for Judeo-Christian morality—these are the tenets of Rand’s harsh philosophy.

In Ayn Rand Nation, Gary Weiss explores the people and institutions that remain under the spell of the Russian-born novelist. He provides new insights into Rand’s inner circle in the last years of her life, with revelations of never-before-publicized predictions by Rand that still resonate today. Weiss charts Rand’s infiltration of the Tea Party and Libertarian movements, and provides an inside look at the radical belief system that has exerted a powerful influence on the Republican Party and its presidential candidates. It’s a fascinating cast of characters that ranges from Glenn Beck to Oliver Stone, and includes Rand’s most influential disciple, Alan Greenspan. Weiss describes in penetrating detail how Greenspan became a stalking horse for Rand—slashing and burning regulations with ideological zeal, and then seeking to conceal her influence on his life and thinking. Lastly, Weiss provides a strategy for a renewed national dialogue, an embrace of the nation’s core values that is needed to deal with Rand’s pervasive grip on society.

From The Fountainhead and Atlas Shrugged to Rand’s lesser-known and misunderstood nonfiction books, Gary Weiss examines the impact of Rand's thinking across our society."

Ayn Rand Nation: The Hidden Struggle for America's Soul: Gary Weiss: Amazon.com: Books

I'm not so much a child of Ayn Rand... more a child of Robert Heinlein...

but it all comes from the same place...

the urge to do whatever the fuck you wanna do... just so long as you don't directly fuck up anyone else's life...

I challenge anyone in here to tell me the fault in this way of thinking...

We need each other. Period.

Yep. That too.
 
No wonder Repubs, like Ryan for instance are Randians.

Ayn Rand - RationalWiki
There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.
—John Rogers
Ayn Rand was a Russian atheist,[2] the author of vast doorstop-sized tomes like Atlas Shrugged and the ripped-off biography The Fountainhead, and other thick, boring books espousing, essentially, psychotic libertarian themes and ideology

Ryan maybe familiar with Ayn Rand but he is not a Randian.

.

Forcing his staff to read her books ...

He believed in her until he realized it would lose him elections but there is no reason to think he has matured in his thinking.

Not surprising is that he and her other fans ignore that she was pro-nazi and pro-abortion. Or that she was pro-welfare (for herself only).
 
No wonder Repubs, like Ryan for instance are Randians.

Ayn Rand - RationalWiki

Ryan maybe familiar with Ayn Rand but he is not a Randian.

.

Forcing his staff to read her books ...

He believed in her until he realized it would lose him elections but there is no reason to think he has matured in his thinking.

Not surprising is that he and her other fans ignore that she was pro-nazi and pro-abortion. Or that she was pro-welfare (for herself only).

You do realize Ayn Rand was jewish correct? Why would she be pro "nazi"?

Rand was born Alisa Zinov'yevna Rosenbaum (Russian: Али́са Зиновьевна Розенбаум) on February 2, 1905, to a Russian Jewish bourgeois[8] family living in Saint Petersburg.
 
Ryan maybe familiar with Ayn Rand but he is not a Randian.

.

Forcing his staff to read her books ...

He believed in her until he realized it would lose him elections but there is no reason to think he has matured in his thinking.

Not surprising is that he and her other fans ignore that she was pro-nazi and pro-abortion. Or that she was pro-welfare (for herself only).

You do realize Ayn Rand was jewish correct? Why would she be pro "nazi"?

Rand was born Alisa Zinov'yevna Rosenbaum (Russian: Али́са Зиновьевна Розенбаум) on February 2, 1905, to a Russian Jewish bourgeois[8] family living in Saint Petersburg.
She was pro-white and hated the Communists. All of her "philosophy" flows from that hatred. She wasn't big on your average Jew either, who she thought were ignorant slobs. In general, she was a ,ot of things but a nice person wasn't one of them.
 
"The proletariat will use its political supremacy to wrest, by degree, all capital from the bourgeoisie, to centralize all instruments of production in the hands of the state".

The Communist Manifesto

Sure, given a chance, which they never are.

Those property rights sure get in the way of socialist ideals, don't they.
Not really. Capitalism is required for Socialism. You can't have one without first having the other.
 
I was a conservative before reading Rand, so when I did read her work my life experiences had already compelled me to subscribe to the belief in work providing dignity and the government being a hindrance to economic progress and individual productivity.
 
Those property rights sure get in the way of socialist ideals, don't they.
Not really. Capitalism is required for Socialism. You can't have one without first having the other.

Property rights, a byproduct of a healthy free capitalist society, is indeed an obstacle to centralized socialist governance.

Only until the rights are adjusted. Did you not read Marx? And thanks for your Rand answer.
 
I found a copy of ATlas Shrugged when I was 14.

I bought it because it was thick and I wanted to get my money's worth.

I really like it, BTW.

I actually bought into this woman's POV for a few years until I started working.

That's when her philosophy of GREED IS GOOD started to unravel for me.

Greed is better than apathy. Greed is an inevitable and insatiable human instinct that, if harnessed correctly, drives technological innovation which in turn stimulates economic growth.

There is a need for regulations and public policies that do not ignore human nature. We all understand this when it applies to financial regulation, but for some reason simply choose to ignore it when crafting effective government assistance programs.
 

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